Fire Emblem series

[Dang Woodchucks!]

Diabetes risk is putting it lightly with all the artificial sugar
lol nice missing the point and proving my own.

15 years of drinking and being overweight isn't exactly a shinning base for a long life.

Thing is, whatever Mangs has to deal with in the future, if anything at all, he'll probably have the means to deal with it, be it his family and friends or the mental bulwark dealing with this shit has helped him build up.

Meanwhile, people like Chaz, Mekkka and Goose will end up like the characters in Requiem for a Dream or worse. I mean for real, Goose already does meth, so it's only going downhill for them.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

I dislike how they wrote Edelgard. I wish all three lords just.......
lived. Bad shit happen to her and yeah she basically becomes Bloody Mary Tutor but idk.....I feel bad for her. I wish she and Dimitri made up with a happy ending. Too sad.

Like her two routes were just meh. Idk.

Maybe Three Hopes will change things? (Unpopular opinion but the musou combat would definitely be much better suited to this FE as opposed to the grid based strategy. Just my opinion)

Edelgard was clearly written as a tragic character, whose childhood trauma turned her into a zealot so convinced that her way was the only way that she would throw away her humanity for the chance that she may be able to realize those ambitions. I don't think El would surrender or compromise under any circumstance, and her decision to force Dimitri to kill her rather than admit defeat had a pretty good narrative point of showing the tragedy of the sibling conflict: Dimitri spent years obsessively seeking to kill Edelgard in the name of justice for those who lost their lives due to her actions and the actions of her allies, and when he finally does kill her, it was an act of self defense that he clearly did not want to do and regretted deeply.

As far as I can see, Edelgard and Dimitri both surviving ruins their characters, since the two's worldviews are simply so diametrically opposed that one has to betray their conscience in order for that to happen.

 

[Twin Addler]

As far as I can see, Edelgard and Dimitri both surviving ruins their characters, since the two's worldviews are simply so diametrically opposed that one has to betray their conscience in order for that to happen.

I agree. But welp here comes a warriors game to give us a golden happy ending just like it did for botw... yay.....

 

[Dang Woodchucks!]

Edelgard was clearly written as a tragic character, whose childhood trauma turned her into a zealot so convinced that her way was the only way that she would throw away her humanity for the chance that she may be able to realize those ambitions. I don't think El would surrender or compromise under any circumstance, and her decision to force Dimitri to kill her rather than admit defeat had a pretty good narrative point of showing the tragedy of the sibling conflict: Dimitri spent years obsessively seeking to kill Edelgard in the name of justice for those who lost their lives due to her actions and the actions of her allies, and when he finally does have to kill her, it was an act of self defense that he clearly did not want to do and regretted deeply.

As far as I can see, Edelgard and Dimitri both surviving ruins their characters, since the two's worldviews are simply so diametrically opposed that one has to betray their conscience in order for that to happen.

The problem is either IntSystems (or maybe the translation team? I dunno if that has gotten better since the Fates shitshow) appears unable to really put their ideas to paper in a convincing manner. Maybe it's the whole "Japanese people write an pseudo-European Fantasy and then translate it to other languages" thing that makes things awkward.

The worst part is that I get what they were going for in theory, with having two out of three protagonists that are simply unwilling to compromise their views or back down on their way... but in practice it comes off like they're just severely autistic and only succeed because "LOL Byleth has the top goddess as his imaginary friend", otherwise nearly getting everyone killed.

Also Edelgard working with the Slaves to Dubstep Darkness. Uhh... what? I don't think I need to say why that's retarded.

 

[NerdShamer]

The worst part is that I get what they were going for in theory, with having two out of three protagonists that are simply unwilling to compromise their views or back down on their way... but in practice it comes off like they're just severely autistic and only succeed because "LOL Byleth has the top goddess as his imaginary friend", otherwise nearly getting everyone killed.

Well, there's hardly any excuse not to give Byleth some voiced dialogue to reign them in; considering how they actually talk on the battlefield.

In Edelgard's case, she's voicing her deepest secrets to an (largely) emotionless person who isn't well-versed in the ways of the world (which actually an good idea). And Dimitri just needed someone who's capable of slapping some sense into him; which nobody does, surprisingly.

It's kind of funny how you're an random NPC whose decisions are responsible for shaping the world.

 

[HIVidaBoheme]

In Edelgard's case, she's voicing her deepest secrets to an (largely) emotionless person who isn't well-versed in the ways of the world (which actually an good idea). And Dimitri just needed someone who's capable of slapping some sense into him; which nobody does, surprisingly.

Seems to me like it was originally intended for other characters in each route to do this (Felix for Dimitri and Hubert/Dorothea for Edelgard) but ultimately settled on the protag.

 

[ugly duckling]

Thing is, whatever Mangs has to deal with in the future, if anything at all, he'll probably have the means to deal with it, be it his family and friends or the mental bulwark dealing with this shit has helped him build up.

Meanwhile, people like Chaz, Mekkka and Goose will end up like the characters in Requiem for a Dream or worse. I mean for real, Goose already does meth, so it's only going downhill for them.

And Ryn:

And mekkah fools tried to take down channel with 1 video:

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

As a hypothetical, do you think 3H's plot would have worked better if it was designed like FE10/Radiant Dawn and had say mid 30s chapters like RD did? For those that never played it, because it costs like 80 usd or something to play now unless you pirate, Radiant Dawn's main plot is the build up and pay of to a big continent spanning war with multiple sides of varying objectives that is told across 4 arcs of varying sizes spread across the continent.

The key thing is you play as different leaders/lords depending on what the game wants to let you participate in. This is most notable in the third arc where you play as Ike and Micaiah who are the primary two lords who are opposed to each other at this point in the story, and the fourth arc where about 90% of the playable units split into 3 groups and do 2 chapters each where you must organize who goes where from your elite units to your untrained fodder.

So you go the first 7 or so chapters as Ike's group then suddenly you shift back to Micaiah who you haven't seen in about 10 chapters now and everything you did with her units is carried over to this point. So you are in a sense playing two different armies in the same game and eventually they converge at the end similar to Gaiden/Echoes, but one of the biggest moments in FE10 is 3-13 (part 3, chapter 13) when Micaiah's generally underleveled scrub squad has to do a defense mission vs Ike's group and all his unique enemy units are copies of the units you trained (reviving any who may have died with a set base template). Any deaths on Ike's side don't matter they just retreat.

It is basically multiple sides, just it is one linear story where the game controls which units you have to tell its story by constantly shifting perspectives around and forcing the player to adapt if they play completely blind. I think this would tie up a lot of the redundancy 3H's routes suffer from and let the game show its multiple sides as much as it wants by just switching over which house/nation you control for a particular chapter.

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

As a hypothetical, do you think 3H's plot would have worked better if it was designed like FE10/Radiant Dawn and had say mid 30s chapters like RD did?

I'm so mixed on the perspective shits from RD. Like, its awesome from a story point but wrecking shit with the Greil Mercenaries for a couple chapters just to then go back to Micaiah and her shitters always felt like a slap across the face when you're trying to have fun.
I think it absolutely could've worked out though if the Dawn Brigade would've been balanced better and had more units, I'd certainly take that over route splits at this point.
Not sure how to fit the shifts into 3H though when Dimitri and Edel have no reason to allign unlike Ike and Micaiah near the end

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

I'm so mixed on the perspective shits from RD. Like, its awesome from a story point but wrecking shit with the Greil Mercenaries for a couple chapters just to then go back to Micaiah and her shitters always felt like a slap across the face when you're trying to have fun.
I think it absolutely could've worked out though if the Dawn Brigade would've been balanced better and had more units, I'd certainly take that over route splits at this point.
Not sure how to fit the shifts into 3H though when Dimitri and Edel have no reason to allign unlike Ike and Micaiah near the end

DB isn't even THAT bad once you get past the first few chapters and know what you're doing, it is just so lopsided where only Jill and Nolan are the only decent units worth caring about by part 3 that if you focus on them they'll roll over the chapters just fine (Beastfoe skill Nolan stomps chapter 3-8 if trained well). DB is almost setting you up to fail because of how too few good units their are and if you go blind you have no way to be prepared for something like facing Ike's group vs Micaiah (though that chapter is quite lenient if you play slowly). While I think narratively Ike being stronger is fine, Micaiah's group is just far too weak and Haar's Radiant Hand Axe being so broken doesn't help either.

I'm going with the assumption that 3H's story would need to be adjusted a decent amount for this to work, as the game forces the route system with how its written by having the majority of the game repeat itself from X house perspective which is one of the worst parts of 3H gameplay and plot wise imo. If you have to force Dimitri and Edelgard's fight to the death you can make it a player choice thing where you effectively choose who of the two goes to the final chapters and the other dies tragically, and you use the shitty dark wizards to force the alignment afterwards with their literal missiles.

I think Byleth would be harder to integrate in this hypothetical over the Dimitri vs Edelgard arc, as Byleth has to be in every chapter by design and trying to force them across 3 different armies can get quite contrived easily especially post timeskip. I mean we could just remove forced avatar characters in every game, but that seems to be an impossibility at this point.

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

it is just so lopsided where only Jill and Nolan are the only decent units worth caring about by part 3 that if you focus on them they'll roll over the chapters just fine (Beastfoe skill Nolan stomps chapter 3-8 if trained well). DB is almost setting you up to fail because of how too few good units their are

This is exactly my main issue with the DB, it always plays out the same way in that you're just overleveling Jill and Nolan.
Otherwise you have some of the worst units in the game around like Fiona or Meg which becomes that much more apparent with how small the DB is compared to the Greil Mercs.

I think Byleth would be harder to integrate in this hypothetical over the Dimitri vs Edelgard arc, as Byleth has to be in every chapter by design and trying to force them across 3 different armies can get quite contrived easily especially post timeskip. I mean we could just remove forced avatar characters in every game, but that seems to be an impossibility at this point.

Seems like it

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

This is exactly my main issue with the DB, it always plays out the same way in that you're just overleveling Jill and Nolan.
Otherwise you have some of the worst units in the game around like Fiona or Meg which becomes that much more apparent with how small the DB is compared to the Greil Mercs.

If you play normal mode Edward, Aran, Zihark, and to an extent Sothe/Volug are fine it is only hard mode that it becomes the Jill/Nolan show and many characters in all FEs fall behind in the hardest mode especially really hard early game ones like FE10. Ike's crew in part 3 is just a unique exception (for the most part as Mist sucks, and Soren and Rolf also are kind of ass) because he pretty much only has prepromotes and you are well past the early game when he shows up. Ike's crew is like if you got skipped characters like Sain, Kent, Lowen, etc and were playing the midgame with characters on Harkin, Heath, Isadora, and Pent levels of strength for their join time. Radiant Dawn is just a weird game, but it is why I like it so much.

Edward gets cucked by hard mode's no weapon triangle making his eh start even more garbage, Aran is just too slow for hard mode, Zihark has good enough offense but he dies too fast in part 3, and Sothe/Volug have solid bases that only really fall off in part 4 where everyone is combined anyway.

 

[NerdShamer]

As a hypothetical, do you think 3H's plot would have worked better if it was designed like FE10/Radiant Dawn and had say mid 30s chapters like RD did?

Sure, if the game didn't revolve around the actions of an single character. Sure, Claude can probably manage without Byleth; but between Dimitri and Edelgard, they both have abandonment issues and neither of them takes it well if you sided with the enemy... And then there's Rhea.


Maybe Three Hopes won't force an route split, but I have my doubts.

 

[BlacknGold]

Sure, if the game didn't revolve around the actions of an single character. Sure, Claude can probably manage without Byleth; but between Dimitri and Edelgard, they both have abandonment issues and neither of them takes it well if you sided with the enemy... And then there's Rhea.


Maybe Three Hopes won't force an route split, but I have my doubts.

All this talk makes it seem that Dimitri vs. Edelgard should have been the only two routes with Claude's house and the Church being supporting characters for worldbuilding. But that would seem too close to fates so I think they forced themselves to overshoot for 4 routes. I can see it being fun that Byleth would have to woo Claude through monastery events to get him to side with your preferred lord.

 

[HIVidaBoheme]

I can see it being fun that Byleth would have to woo Claude through monastery events to get him to side with your preferred lord.

It wouldn't have been too far fetched considering you have the option to spare his life in CF and he is saved by Dimitri near the end of BL

Hey maybe that can be in the war arc plot for Three Hopes.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

All this talk makes it seem that Dimitri vs. Edelgard should have been the only two routes with Claude's house and the Church being supporting characters for worldbuilding. But that would seem too close to fates so I think they forced themselves to overshoot for 4 routes. I can see it being fun that Byleth would have to woo Claude through monastery events to get him to side with your preferred lord.

Claude's problem is he just isn't relevant beyond his own personal issues, he is very much a 3rd wheel in this conflict and the only reason his route is relevant is because he gets probably the most relevant final boss (in terms of the overarching conflict) even if said final boss is an ass pull. His house imo reveals the most relevant information about the overarching conflict, but I don't know how I feel about Claude specifically being the one who learns this information.

I think his whole thing can work, but he just needs more time and better writing as I think his whole deal with Lorenz just going nowhere is a massive waste of potential. He feels like someone's pet character the way everyone jerks him off and how he's the only non-insane person here.

I think Claude being a less used house wild card house who due to having less personal attachments to this personal conflict can discern what's going on in the background, and we just refocus it on Dimitri vs Edelgard being the primary conflict can work without a ton of rewriting. The church just needs more development in general in terms of what it is doing to make Edelgard's crusade more understandable, as their are a lot of implications of things going on but not a lot of actually showing what it is doing. We just have rebel sects of the church...just cause I guess? Who knows?

 

[Giga_Guntler]

I am playing through Tear Ring Saga right now, and i still cannot fathom how based Kaga is, both in gameplay design and plot. This is unedited dialogue from TRS, and they are essentially portrayed as the main scheming villains behind everything, child sacrifice and all. From what i heard you already had some stuff hinting towards this in Jugdral, but nothing that outright said "God's chosen people"

 

[NerdShamer]

We just have rebel sects of the church...just cause I guess? Who knows?

It's mostly over an deal that Edelgard's uncle struck with them...Who is really the leader of the mole people cosplaying as her uncle, for some reason.

But outside of an unrelated side chapter and Ashe's level, there really isn't much going on with the religious infighting.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

It's mostly over an deal that Edelgard's uncle struck with them...Who is really the leader of the mole people cosplaying as her uncle, for some reason.

But outside of an unrelated side chapter and Ashe's level, there really isn't much going on with the religious infighting.

I vaguely recall these rebel sects talking about Rhea basically being a false prophet (I think it was with Seteth and Ashe's paralogues), but I have no idea where that came from. Was that really just because Edelgard's mole uncle played everyone and it was all just horseshit? It would have been interesting if we foreshadowed that Rhea's house of cards was steadily falling before Edelgard even did anything, but just having it be explained by le mole people is really really lame.

 

[NerdShamer]

Was that really just because Edelgard's mole uncle played everyone and it was all just horseshit?

Yes.

It would have been interesting if we foreshadowed that Rhea's house of cards was steadily falling before Edelgard even did anything,

Tbf, this happens right after the Lance of Ruin fight; but the implications of this are never touched upon again, outside of Marianne's ancestor.

but just having it be explained by le mole people is really really lame.

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