Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

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Not your Buddy Holly said:
Honestly thought Quintus's suicide was well done, dunno if watching him actually blow his brains out would enhance that or not. The Bloody Banquet was pretty rough, However. I think the arm was done with an invisible character doing the dying animation, as well the Taleji upper half with the lower half being invisible. One I'm on the fence about is the sisters dying in Garlemald. One hand, they died by animals, so seeing their clothing torn and bites into them would be a stronger impact, but I don't really know if it would truly enhance it and just not be gore for the sake of gore. I feel like CS3 wouldn't do tasteless gore scenes, and probably try to limit how much actual screentime it gets if it ever happens.
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Oh yeah don’t get me wrong I definitely agree with you on all of those, I was just theorizing how differently certain scenes would have played out and decisions the writing time would have potentially made if the game’s rating was high enough to warrant a M rating.
 
Racial Slurs the Movie said:
Nigga are we talking about the same culture that constantly sexualises pre-teens what the fuck rose tinted glasses version of glorious nippon are you talking about.
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No, you're right. They'll censor a dick going into a muff, but then will allow other stuff, I forgot about the other stuff. Them being against mods though is probably mostly because modding isn't really as big over there as it is here. A lot of them wouldn't even mod to increase performance or anything with only like a small handful of them doing it specifically to cheat in competitions. Not sure if it's because they feel like modding the game is disrespecting the work the devs do or something or because they have too much pride in their own skills to rely on said mods.
SnowBall said:
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong I definitely agree with you on all of those, I was just theorizing how differently certain scenes would have played out and decisions the writing time would have potentially made if the game’s rating was high enough to warrant a M rating.
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I wish the writing team would push the envelope a bit more. I remember that there was implied rape happening between Garleans and their captives or prisoners of war as far back as ARR.
That's the thing, a lot of the darker stuff is implied or hidden away in some throw away dialogue. The last time it was actually put front and center in our faces is when Arenvald straight up tells us that he was born because his ala mhigan mother was raped by his garlean father and that his schizo mom thought he was growing the garlean forehead mark and abused him and tried to cut it out of him, resulting in him trying to hide the scar using face paint. Only after she abuses him and scars him does she finally abandon him completely and it shines a light on what the children who are born through rape go through. When they are conceived so violently and are brought into the world by a mother who despises you because of what you represent and remind her of. This is a real thing that happens during war, even to this day and it annoys me when people try to pretend it doesn't exist or think they are insulating people from reality.
The writing team suffers from the same problem a lot of writing teams suffer from, they're too scared to write anything even slightly dark for fear of hurting the very special and fragile feelings of any special snowflakes who play their game. Otherwise they'll get some retard screenshot dialogue so they can run to twitter and cry about it. Instead they have to be extra careful with their words, everything is implied or has to happen off screen and we only get told that bad things happen instead of actually seeing with our eyes that bad things happen.

Also side note, I feel super bad for Arenvald, man that motherfucker has had it rough in this game. Someone on the writing team very clearly hated the guy.
 
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Dopey Cunt said:
This is a real thing that happens during war, even to this day and it annoys me when people try to pretend it doesn't exist or think they are insulating people from reality.
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This is one of the reasons why I really like Stormblood's story and get annoyed when the idiots over on reddit or wherever shit on it.

There is a lot of nuanced detail on what an actual war against an actual massive military state would look like. It really breaks the mold of the typical Final Fantasy trope of 'rag tag group of plucky rebels' where everything magically works out (aside from the one tragic attack at the base / singular NPC getting killed.) Not perfectly, mind you, as the whole 'war on 2 fronts' thing embodies some of that sentiment, but there is a lot that usually is just sort of untouched or unsaid when those beats come up in a JRPG story.

Stormblood delves a bit into the logistics of war -- there are people who want fucking nothing to do with any sort of rebellion or resistance against the Empire. Some have been cowed into submission, while others are more pragmatic (the pirates in the Ruby Sea, specifically. It takes them basically seeing the WoL as a walking nuke and Hien's reemergence before they come around to the notion.) But you have all the shit with the Ala Mhiggers, Arenvald like you said, but also Fordola and most of the other NPCs we interact with who are living under occupation.

There's all the stuff in Doma as well, where people are terrified, Yotsuyu's whole story basically. There's lots of interesting things being shown and (generally) not being beaten over the player's head. Which is fucking refreshing as hell, particularly for video game writing. It's not anything profound or amazing-tier writing, but it is a high point for the game's writing for me.

But since there wasn't a voiced cutscene where an innocent woman gets transformed into a bodyhorror monstrosity it is lost on the retards.
 
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Well Intentioned said:
But since there wasn't a voiced cutscene where an innocent woman gets transformed into a bodyhorror monstrosity it is lost on the retards.
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A lot of times, it's the hidden evils that are the scariest, the ones people are hush hush about. The kind that you can absolutely see happening in real life.
We all know that a person can't just transform into some eldrich abomination when they get depressed enough, that's where the fantasy part comes in. But we do know for sure that even in this day and age, if we're conquered and captured by people who hate us and want us dead, I can't even begin to fathom the horrors that's in store for us. Anywhere between torture and mutilation, rape and slavery. That's the real shit that's scary. The fucked up things that happen in between.
 
It’s not just Stormblood. Social media manchildren spent the entirety of ShB and EW screaming about how offensive they are and refusing to understand any of the nuanced writing in them. Nonstop accusations that Ishikawa supports fascism and genocide because of Emet. Also accusations of fatphobia because of Vauthry and the other fat NPCS of Eulmore and accusing the writers of showing slavery in a sympathetic light with those characters as well. The amount of “Emet is Hitler and you’re probably a Nazi if you like him” takes were so bad. And then we got the Garlemald section in EW where people screamed that it forced us to sympathize with Nazis.

People started getting pissy over “offensive writing” during the Stormblood era (especially with Zeons) but ShB was the very first expansion I ever saw really get beaten hard with “the writing of this game is super problematic and the writers are bigots” takes and those fans continued throwing those takes towards EW too. Not only for the Garlemald section but also accusing the writers of hating mentally ill people and stigmatizing depression because of characters turning into monsters and the scene of Amon being dragged into oblivion by Asahi. I even saw someone claim the writers are ok with genocide because of the sundering scene in EW. Many people I know who love ShB and EW also complain nonstop about them having “problematic and offensive” writing. It comes from Tumblrs philosophy of “you must call out the problematic elements of the media you consume.”

And the takes weren’t even exclusively from people that started during the ShB newbie boom, a ton of them were coming from people who joined long before ShB. What’s ironic is that many of these takes were also coming from Stormblood stans out of all people. Stormblood has some really hardcore stans from Tumblr and Twitter that claim it’s the most progressive and feminist expansion because it had a lot of female characters and PoC. Oh and if you hate Stormblood you hate women and minorities according to them. Unsurprisingly the most toxic Dawntrail defenders I’ve seen are those Stormblood fans that threw fits back in the day and they’re repeating the same “you hate women and PoC if you hate Dawntrail” crap they did back in the day with SB.

After a while I just decided it would be best to laugh at these people with the extremely rare few friends I still keep in contact with.
 
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SnowBall said:
It’s not just Stormblood.
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Oh, totally. I was just talking about Stormblood because it's probably my favorite writing in the game. It's a lot more granular (Heavensward comes close, but it is balancing evil church war with dragons and the floating junkyard that is Ayzs Lla) and grounded. You aren't fighting the personification of Twitter or going back in time or blahblahblah. I don't mind that shit (it is a JRPG after all), but I find my enjoyment of stories stories stems from when you aren't blowing them up to world destroying, universe annihilating, levels of abstract cosmic shit.

E: Also, your point about Stormblood stans and them using the 2010s Tumblr-era progressiveness just speaks to a larger overall problem with critical thinking and reasoning skills amongst younger generations. I really try not to become Socrates/Hesiod by bitching about the youth, but there is a ring of truth to it.

The breakdown and understanding of things in the game by these retards is very simple, very reductionist, and not accepting of nuance or honestly just the craft of writing. Someone becoming a literal monster works because monster = bad. Symbolism showing the destructiveness of hopelessness or despair manifesting into people erasing themselves due to a lack of care/support = also bad because it demonizes (heh) those with mental health.

There can't be any lessons beyond retard simple ones that were found throughout Dawntrail ("Family is good! I love my not actual family fuck them they're assholes who don't respect my pronouns at Thanksgiving adopted/blended family!" "Dying is bad! It makes people feel REAL SAD :(" "Good memories are GOOD!" "Guns are bad! You should never use real bullets!" Etc.)

This simple, reductionist thinking spirals out everywhere -- two characters of the same sex are friends with each other. OBVIOUSLY they are gay. There is a well written character who is entertaining to me. CLEARLY I must write extensive fanfiction about this character fucking me and us having a baby together. The Empire are antagonists. NO SHIT they're fascists, because fascists and Nazis are ALSO bad and anyone who lives under them or are a part of them or tolerates them are ALSO BAD.

It's maddening when you start realizing that's what it is and no amount of explanation or discussion will get it through their thick heads.

DickMain said:
You guys make the game sound awesome, and I've always wanted to try it. Is there a way to play offline without engaging with the perverted fanbase?
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This question comes up a lot and honestly, you can solo most of the content in the game through NPCs assisting you in grouped content. It'll be a little slower, but you can avoid people mostly almost entirely.

But honestly, while there is a lot of bullshit in the game with the playerbase, 99% of it can be avoided if you just don't hang around popular 'hubs' -- namely the area around Limsa Lominsa (one of the 3 starting cities), the Novice Network and any 'venues' people try to invite you to.
 
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Well Intentioned said:
But you have all the shit with the Ala Mhiggers, Arenvald like you said, but also Fordola and most of the other NPCs we interact with who are living under occupation.
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Something the game doesn't explain all that well in the quest dialogue is that Ala Mhigo has been occupied for over 20 years. It makes sense Fordola works with Garlemald, it's all she's ever known. One thing I liked while doing the MSQ was a lot of NPCs would comment on how they actually liked it when Gaius was in charge, and that the Ala Mhigo that Lyse was fight for never existed because the place was a shithole ruled by a mad king. Only reason they are rebelling now is because Zenos delegated everything to shit subordinates who would abuse the population.

Lotta good stuff in the Stormblood MSQ, making it one of my favorites.

Quoth The Raven said:
I kept this bookmarked to show people how absurd the playerbase can get at times: https://ffxivcontentwarninglist.carrd.co/#contentwarninglist Doesn't seem to cover anything from EW onwards sadly but still good for a chuckle.
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Everyone forgets about the rape dungeon in Sastasha.
 
Troon Whisperer said:
Something the game doesn't explain all that well in the quest dialogue is that Ala Mhigo has been occupied for over 20 years. It makes sense Fordola works with Garlemald, it's all she's ever known. One thing I liked while doing the MSQ was a lot of NPCs would comment on how they actually liked it when Gaius was in charge, and that the Ala Mhigo that Lyse was fight for never existed because the place was a shithole ruled by a mad king.
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I feel that it does in the early parts of the MSQ, when you go out to try and reach out to the natives and they basically tell you to piss off. Plus you spend a lot of time setting up the Skulls and Fordola to really get the sense of the state of affairs.
 
I noticed a lot of this unhinged behavior getting really bad and more widespread around the time Tumblr banned porn in 2018 (which was during the post SB patches and several months before ShB.) The sjw types were mostly contained to Tumblr prior to that and when the porn ban hit they jumped ship to infect other social media sites and brought their culture with them. And it just got worse and worse from there.
I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory but the timing is too perfect to me. I also remember actually seeing a lot of annoying Tumblr users personally jump to Twitter when the ban hit.
 
SnowBall said:
I noticed a lot of this unhinged behavior getting really bad and more widespread around the time Tumblr banned porn in 2018 (which was during the post SB patches and several months before ShB.) The sjw types were mostly contained to Tumblr prior to that and when the porn ban hit they jumped ship to infect other social media sites and brought their culture with them. And it just got worse and worse from there.
I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory but the timing is too perfect to me. I also remember actually seeing a lot of annoying Tumblr users personally jump to Twitter when the ban hit.
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It is a lot of things and not just limited to the XIV fanbase, IMO. Social contagion like you're talking about is absolutely a factor, but things like people using TV Tropes as a sort of Mad Libs Media Analysis, simplified/surface-level interpretations of things embodied by shit like the Nostalgia Critic, the misuse of the words/terms like 'satire' all contribute to that.

Plus public education by and large continuing to go into the shitter, partly due to stuff like funding, but also stuff like the advent of computers in the classroom and a harder focus on STEM subjects really ingraining that rigid either/or thinking.
 
I count myself lucky not engaging with this game's community almost at all. I watched Ciderspider for a few months (hes a twitch streamer and therefore a closeted faggot who wears maid dresses as a "joke" , but his takes on the game were very sane) and saw a couple of Wuk Lmao memes but otherwise nothing.
Well Intentioned said:
This simple, reductionist thinking spirals out everywhere -- two characters of the same sex are friends with each other. OBVIOUSLY they are gay. There is a well written character who is entertaining to me. CLEARLY I must write extensive fanfiction about this character fucking me and us having a baby together. The Empire are antagonists. NO SHIT they're fascists, because fascists and Nazis are ALSO bad and anyone who lives under them or are a part of them or tolerates them are ALSO BAD.
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It's a common logic with writing and art in general that became more prominent after the tumblr containment breach, that stories should be written and consumed primarily as a form of validation. A story can have extremely dark subject matter but it can never, ever be challenging to the reader's views because that would make them uncomfortable and minorities shouldn't be made uncomfortable. (of course that's everyone other than straight men and women, who should be challenged and educated).
Think about how fanfiction largely exists as "feel-good" stories that are written to satisfy the writer's desires for the original work, usually very carnal ones. Tumblr and AO3 invented tags and trigger warnings for those kinds of stories because even when they didn't have sodomy in them, they were essentially comfort porn for a teenage audience of their favourite characters being happy. They needed to be told what was in them before reading, because looking for hyperspecific elements that appealled to them or avoiding things that made them uncomfortable was the whole point.

The people who grew up with this kind of culture now view all media the same way. "does it have my favourite characters kissing?" "does it match my politics?" "does it show a minority doing something bad, ever?" "is it showing history as more complex than a good/evil struggle?" They assume all writers and readers are like them, and can't understand the concept that a writer has a larger point to make, and doesn't actually care about a hyperspecific thing like Vauthry being fat. Or that they were using real world parallels to explore the Ala Mhigo conflict without necessarily endorsing any one viewpoint; because that involves challenging the reader, and stories exist to jack offvalidate the reader.
 
DickMain said:
You guys make the game sound awesome, and I've always wanted to try it. Is there a way to play offline without engaging with the perverted fanbase?
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There is no way to play this online game offline. Use the Visibility mod to turn off all players from view.

github.com

GitHub - SheepGoMeh/VisibilityPlugin: Dalamud plugin to allow for quality of life changes for player and pet visibility.

Dalamud plugin to allow for quality of life changes for player and pet visibility. - GitHub - SheepGoMeh/VisibilityPlugin: Dalamud plugin to allow for quality of life changes for player and pet vis...
github.com github.com

To use the mod, you must use Dalamud plugin with XIVLauncher, an alternative game launcher that is minimalist and automatically logs you in upon program execution.


More information about Dalamud here.

When the game is launched, Dalamud will popup and you can select Visibility from the mod list to install.
 
Sheep King said:
A story can have extremely dark subject matter but it can never, ever be challenging to the reader's views because that would make them uncomfortable and minorities shouldn't be made uncomfortable
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I remember a time when stories that were supposed to have an impact were told with the intention of making the reader uncomfortable. Because the point of a story isn't always to teach a lesson, they are to make you feel something.

I use The Eclipse from Berserk as an example of this all the time. I thought that whole thing was masterful storytelling. You really got a sense of the hopelessness and utter despair of what was happening. It was gory, it was vile, and it was told with the intention of making me sick to my stomach. People raise an eyebrow to me, a woman, saying that the Eclipse was the best part about Golden Age and ask me how I could like something like that when it shows a woman getting brutalized and raped and how it's "sexualizing" her. But I don't see it that way. I see a desperate man fighting like a wild beast to save someone he deeply loves and the palpable helplessness he feels when he is forced to watch her be violated by the person he once considered his best friend. It was incredibly tragic and by the end of it, I felt like I wanted to puke. But good Lord, was I enraptured the whole way through.

This is why you have your feel good stories and the ones that make you want to kill yourself afterwards. Not that I completely gauge how good a story is based on how much it can emotionally shake me in a negative way, this of course applies to stories told to make you feel good too. Nowadays, people are only allowed to tell feel good stories because everything even somewhat negative is considered problematic. And I mean, making these "problematic" issues front and center of a story. You can't tell a story with racism as the main focus because people will get mad. You can't tell a story with slavery as the main focus because people will get mad. You can't tell a story about rape without people getting mad. And if a story with all those things is told, the insane double standard kicks in and it's the "men are responsible for all of it" narrative that gets beaten into the heads of everyone who plays.

Meanwhile you have the Drow from D&D lore who are matriarchal, treat men and below them and fit only as slaves and cattle, believing they deserve no respect whatsoever, and all the usual crybabies who complain about the patriarchy are quiet as a fucking mouse.
 
Sheep King said:
It's a common logic with writing and art in general that became more prominent after the tumblr containment breach, that stories should be written and consumed primarily as a form of validation.
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I agree and wanted to say your post was really well said.

Dopey Cunt said:
Meanwhile you have the Drow from D&D lore who are matriarchal, treat men and below them and fit only as slaves and cattle, believing they deserve no respect whatsoever, and all the usual crybabies who complain about the patriarchy are quiet as a fucking mouse.
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Oh, no, drow are problematic because it is demonizing people of color and that the matriarchal drow society is misogynistic because it characterizes powerful or strong women as evil and vile.

There might be a bit of something to it with the dark skin, but it is pretty obvious that the intention was for a light / dark dichotomy in the sense of good / evil and a contrast to 'normal' elves.
 
I still remember seeing people crash out over the “Into the Cold” solo duty because they got extremely uncomfortable with the body snatching scene because it made them feel helpless. They also accused the writers of putting in a allegory for rape and agency removal. Except that duty is supposed to make you uncomfortable and helpless. It puts you in the shoes of a normal citizen and their experiences in war. It’s supposed to show you what it’s like to struggle in the game’s setting when you don’t have the power and blessings the player character has.
 
SnowBall said:
I still remember seeing people crash out over the “Into the Cold” solo duty because they got extremely uncomfortable with the body snatching scene because it made them feel helpless. They also accused the writers of putting in a allegory for rape and agency removal. Except that duty is supposed to make you uncomfortable and helpless. It puts you in the shoes of a normal citizen and their experiences in war. It’s supposed to show you what it’s like to struggle in the game’s setting when you don’t have the power and blessings the player character has.
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I honestly think those complaints were from people who just absolutely sucked at the game frustrated that they couldn't clear babby's first stealth/survival mode while trying to find a reason to hate on it without acknowledging that they fucking suck.
 
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