Opinion End useless math requirements - Smartest journalist

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I know only two people who can readily recite the quadratic formula. My wife is one. She’s always been a whiz at school, but, as a choir teacher, she has absolutely no use for the equation (other than as an occasional party trick). The other person is my brother, who works with electron-beam technology as a mechanical engineer. He’s in the minority of people who actually use advanced math daily.

For most of us, the formula was one of many alphabet soup combinations crammed into our heads in high school long enough to pass a math test, then promptly forgotten. I’m queasy all over again just thinking about it. As a functioning adult in society, I have no use for imaginary numbers or the Pythagorean theorem. I’ve never needed to determine the height of a flagpole by measuring its shadow and the angle of the sun.

Only 22 percent of the nation’s workers use any math more advanced than fractions, and they typically occupy technical or skilled positions. That means more than three-fourths of the population spends painful years in school futzing with numbers when they could be learning something more useful.

I’m talking about applied logic. This branch of philosophy grows from the same mental tree as algebra and geometry but lacks the distracting foliage of numbers and formulas. Call it the art of thinking clearly. We need this urgently in this era of disinformation, in which politicians and media personalities play on our emotions and fears.

Logic teaches us how to trace a claim back to its underlying premises and to test each link in a chain of thought for unsupported assumptions or fallacies. People trained in logic are better able to spot the deceptions and misdirection that politicians so often employ. They also have a better appreciation for different points of view because they understand the thought processes that produce multiple legitimate conclusions concerning the same set of facts. They are comfortable with spirited dialogue about what’s best for our society.

I once asked my pre-calculus teacher whether I would ever use the information she taught in real life. Her answer was surprisingly frank: I probably wouldn’t. The reason to take the class was to score well on the advanced placement test, which would give me a leg up on the math requirements in college. In other words, numbers for the sake of numbers.

Math advocates claim to be teaching complex problem solving, mental discipline and a better understanding of our world. Logic teaches the same things more directly. Geometry can’t teach me when an argument is manipulating my emotions, but logic can. Calculus doesn’t help me solve moral dilemmas, but philosophy does.

Admittedly, all students need to master the basic math of everyday life so they can manage money, compare prices, find the center of a wall to hang a picture and so on. And some students, like my brother, will fall in love with math. That’s a good thing, because they will use it to make bridges safe, to predict the weather, to land spacecraft on the moon and Mars — you get the idea.

It’s reasonable to suggest that public schools all provide a standardized core curriculum. But what makes up a fundamental education? America has not thought through this question in a national conversation since the 1983 release of “A Nation At Risk.” The product of a presidential commission on education, this report warned of declining achievement in the country’s schools and diagnosed “the urgent need for improvement.” Among its recommendations were a minimum of three years of math for all high school graduates.

Since that time, the digital revolution has placed massive computational power in the palm of every student’s hand. Should the need for a cube root arise in someone’ life, Siri is available 24/7 to provide the answer. That same revolution has given us a crisis of conspiracy theories and a polluted public discourse. What’s at risk now is our ability to reason together as citizens. Skills such as these might not be able to solve for X, but they could go a long way in the pursuit of happiness and the health of America. You can’t punch those things into a calculator.

The need to solve problems is eternal, but many of life’s weightiest problems don’t boil down to numbers. Prioritizing higher-level numeracy over other forms of logical reasoning is not turning us into a nation of engineers and physicists. It’s letting us become a nation that can’t think straight.

America’s Founders knew it would take educated citizens for this democratic republic to succeed. But nowhere did they mention the quadratic formula.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/06/end-useless-math-requirements/ (Archive)
 
Giving people logic classes instead of math classes won't help
Try real logic math classes where it's combined math and formulas that are almost a different language to learn. Try regular expression. That stuff is not easy. It sucks that people think that anyone should be given an A for showing up. This article is saying there is no value to it, when it shows you can at least have some ability to figure out things.

Gross.
 
I think we should be taught more maths tbh. Especially stuff like ‘how to lie with statistics’ ‘the wonders/horrors of compound interest’ etc. nobody should leave school without the ability to balance their budget, pay bills and have a critical eye on the nonsense the media puts out.
We can't have people able to figure out when they're being played for fools! Society would never survive such a monumental awareness!

Also, damn glad to have you back and posting. I hope it was a voluntary absence and not because the plods went after you for not having your Internet loicense.
They had a lot more free time that wasn't consumed by the likes of "social media".
And if they wanted to shitpost they had to calculate out how many street corners and walls they'd need to cover with pamphlets and the number of paper sheets, gallons of ink, and printing press time they'd need to get those pamphlets done.
 
not because the plods went after you for not having your Internet loicense.
We aren’t quite at the point of gulags for the free of thought up here - but it’s only a matter of time I guess. Things get madder by the day. Semi voluntary, just had a lot going on and no bandwidth for much else, and every time I did try to log in trannies were DDOS ing
 
Being good at math and memorizing formulas isn't so much about the results you actually get from it, it's about your ability to be able to learn things and problem solving. Those are the things that most non-NPC careers need in at least some way. It's just a way to filter the useless from the capable.
Yep, I instantly knew this person cannot even comprehend why math was taught when they think it is "memorizing the quadratic formula". Although I do think there was some real horseshit in math and they did rely heavily on rote memorization, it's incredibly important. We are already heading for a competency crisis, this isn't going to help.
 
Yep, I instantly knew this person cannot even comprehend why math was taught when they think it is "memorizing the quadratic formula". Although I do think there was some real horseshit in math and they did rely heavily on rote memorization, it's incredibly important. We are already heading for a competency crisis, this isn't going to help.
It's the same 'I'm bad at math, math is stupid' mindset. They're idiots.

Not everyone needs to be good at math to be a success, but it sure helps. Even retards can make money.
 
Math is about teaching you how to think. Helps with understanding other subjects and is far more useful the majority of what’s taught in school.

It’s hated primarily by those that’d rather stick to soft subjects like English or history where you just recite whatever the teacher believes best rather than what’s right.
 
I have never once used a Shakespeare play or my knowledge of Eisenhower's Presidential campaign for anything.

Symbolic algebra and the Cartesian plane, are the intellectual revolutions that drove the creation of science as we know it. Without it, the language for Newton's calculus, and therefore literally all of science and engineering as we know it, doesn't exist.

The reason students should have to learn the foundational knowledge of our civilization to graduate from a university is because it's the foundational knowledge of our civilization. You don't need another reason.
Ok but like those things are also extraneous. The younger generations don't know how to pay taxes, repair a car, or mail a check, but they can tell you the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. If you wanna learn those things then great you should have that option, I just fail to see how it's relevant unless you're also going into science and engineering.
 
"maths is just gatekeeping for college entry!"

Retards of the public, there needs to be a shitload more intellectual gatekeeping for college entry. The universities of the world were founded and operated for centuries on the understanding that they were absolutely not for everyone. They were for hardly anyone. They were where society parked its awkward outliers to work in a hyperfocused way on the expansion of human scholarship.

With the exception of certain traditionally-protected professions such as law and medicine, and vet medicine for which you have to be actually smart, universities were for freaks who were too into books.

This functioned excellently. People who were able to do woodworking or build houses didn't need any fucking education for that beyond some basic literacy, numeracy, and the trade secrets they would learn on the job. People who only talent was to vaguely parrot someone more intelligent's books on Habermas needed to not waste the time and resources of the university, but learn how to eat bugs and file correctly. The whole point of university education was that we book freaks didn't have to associate with the rest of you any more, and that met everyone's needs and expectations.

The universities have admitted morons in the name of easy money and now they mostly produce lab golems and lazy clerks.

"50% of kids should go to university" was beyond retarded. The correct figure is around 2 to 3%. Everyone else can go to the public library and become halfwit autodidacts there. It will save them a lot of money.
 
Ok but like those things are also extraneous. The younger generations don't know how to pay taxes, repair a car, or mail a check, but they can tell you the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. If you wanna learn those things then great you should have that option, I just fail to see how it's relevant unless you're also going into science and engineering.

Universities aren't and shouldn't be for learning how to fill out a form or turn a wrench. If you don't want to learn things like math, philosophy, literature, and history, you shouldn't be allowed into a university, and whatever certification you get shouldn't be called a "bachelor's degree."

I'm all for reducing university enrollment by about 75%. There are way too many kids in college now, but unfortunately, we've decided it should be illegal to hire people based on aptitude because that's bad for niggers.


The universities have admitted morons in the name of easy money and now they mostly produce lab golems and lazy clerks.

"50% of kids should go to university" was beyond retarded. The correct figure is around 2 to 3%. Everyone else can go to the public library and become halfwit autodidacts there. It will save them a lot of money.

We refuse to accept as a society that some people just aren't very smart, so we believe education makes people more smarterer and fantasize that universal higher education will create a nation where everyone is above average. Education actually has no impact whatsoever on intelligence. But it hurts people's feelings to say so, so here we are, we have retards filling classrooms so the endowment grows fat and we can all feel good about ourselves.
 
How about we shitcan the music and choir programs your wife teaches? Nobody needs to know how to play an instrument or sing in a choir. You could just ask Siri to sing for you!

A rounded education helps ensure students get exposed to as many different subjects as possible for developing personal and career interests.
 
Math is about teaching you how to think. Helps with understanding other subjects and is far more useful the majority of what’s taught in school.

It’s hated primarily by those that’d rather stick to soft subjects like English or history where you just recite whatever the teacher believes best rather than what’s right.
I think letters are just more interesting to most people because a command and grasp of language is more immediately and obviously useful.

I'd say if we were going to cut down on math for the average student the best thing you could probably do is sink all of that time into increasing their grasp of language and broadening their lexicons. If you can't teach them anything useful you can at least make them well-spoken.
 
the formula was one of many alphabet soup combinations crammed into our heads in high school long enough to pass a math test, then promptly forgotten
No, the point of math isn't to memlroize, it's to apply basic logic
Only 22 percent of the nation’s workers use any math more advanced than fractions, and they typically occupy technical or skilled positions. That means more than three-fourths of the population spends painful years in school futzing with numbers when they could be learning something more useful.
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And it shows
I’m talking about applied logic
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People trained in logic are better able to spot the deceptions and misdirection that politicians so often employ
No, that's statistics
Math advocates claim to be teaching complex problem solving, mental discipline and a better understanding of our world. Logic teaches the same things more directly. Geometry can’t teach me when an argument is manipulating my emotions, but logic can. Calculus doesn’t help me solve moral dilemmas, but philosophy does.
Just admit you're a dumbass journo
 
As shitty as math in school can be, this is insane. If anything there needs to be more of it, focusing on financial math at least.
 
As a certified retard I mean stemlord there's a surprising amount of math involved in doing anything with your hands.
I used to also think the lack of math training in public schools was to help keep people from getting upset about how badly the economy tries to fuck the average American in general, but I've become considerably more blackpilled about the standard American mindset and don't think it would matter. People will accept 2+2 = 5 if they're "not a good citizen" for knowing otherwise.
 
Not only do you need to know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide, it is also vital to learn to read well, remember what you read, as appropriate language-wise spell well, and write coherent sentences and paragraphs. For example, gotta be able to read and understand the fine print in contracts and similar agreements. The large print gives, the small print takes away, and that's where motherfuckers get their dicks knocked in the dirt.

Going a bit further, you need to get a good education because without a good education you will always be at the mercy of people who have that good education. Know this for a dead-cold fact, from personal experience as a kid.
 
Logic teaches us how to trace a claim back to its underlying premises and to test each link in a chain of thought for unsupported assumptions or fallacies.

Like when troons say that it's totally valid to be a woman with a penis and genitals are gender neutral but also we need to give them amholes gratis via the taxpayer and rotdogs and breast implants or they'll kill themselves because their sex characteristics don't align with their gender?
 
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