Opinion End useless math requirements - Smartest journalist

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I know only two people who can readily recite the quadratic formula. My wife is one. She’s always been a whiz at school, but, as a choir teacher, she has absolutely no use for the equation (other than as an occasional party trick). The other person is my brother, who works with electron-beam technology as a mechanical engineer. He’s in the minority of people who actually use advanced math daily.

For most of us, the formula was one of many alphabet soup combinations crammed into our heads in high school long enough to pass a math test, then promptly forgotten. I’m queasy all over again just thinking about it. As a functioning adult in society, I have no use for imaginary numbers or the Pythagorean theorem. I’ve never needed to determine the height of a flagpole by measuring its shadow and the angle of the sun.

Only 22 percent of the nation’s workers use any math more advanced than fractions, and they typically occupy technical or skilled positions. That means more than three-fourths of the population spends painful years in school futzing with numbers when they could be learning something more useful.

I’m talking about applied logic. This branch of philosophy grows from the same mental tree as algebra and geometry but lacks the distracting foliage of numbers and formulas. Call it the art of thinking clearly. We need this urgently in this era of disinformation, in which politicians and media personalities play on our emotions and fears.

Logic teaches us how to trace a claim back to its underlying premises and to test each link in a chain of thought for unsupported assumptions or fallacies. People trained in logic are better able to spot the deceptions and misdirection that politicians so often employ. They also have a better appreciation for different points of view because they understand the thought processes that produce multiple legitimate conclusions concerning the same set of facts. They are comfortable with spirited dialogue about what’s best for our society.

I once asked my pre-calculus teacher whether I would ever use the information she taught in real life. Her answer was surprisingly frank: I probably wouldn’t. The reason to take the class was to score well on the advanced placement test, which would give me a leg up on the math requirements in college. In other words, numbers for the sake of numbers.

Math advocates claim to be teaching complex problem solving, mental discipline and a better understanding of our world. Logic teaches the same things more directly. Geometry can’t teach me when an argument is manipulating my emotions, but logic can. Calculus doesn’t help me solve moral dilemmas, but philosophy does.

Admittedly, all students need to master the basic math of everyday life so they can manage money, compare prices, find the center of a wall to hang a picture and so on. And some students, like my brother, will fall in love with math. That’s a good thing, because they will use it to make bridges safe, to predict the weather, to land spacecraft on the moon and Mars — you get the idea.

It’s reasonable to suggest that public schools all provide a standardized core curriculum. But what makes up a fundamental education? America has not thought through this question in a national conversation since the 1983 release of “A Nation At Risk.” The product of a presidential commission on education, this report warned of declining achievement in the country’s schools and diagnosed “the urgent need for improvement.” Among its recommendations were a minimum of three years of math for all high school graduates.

Since that time, the digital revolution has placed massive computational power in the palm of every student’s hand. Should the need for a cube root arise in someone’ life, Siri is available 24/7 to provide the answer. That same revolution has given us a crisis of conspiracy theories and a polluted public discourse. What’s at risk now is our ability to reason together as citizens. Skills such as these might not be able to solve for X, but they could go a long way in the pursuit of happiness and the health of America. You can’t punch those things into a calculator.

The need to solve problems is eternal, but many of life’s weightiest problems don’t boil down to numbers. Prioritizing higher-level numeracy over other forms of logical reasoning is not turning us into a nation of engineers and physicists. It’s letting us become a nation that can’t think straight.

America’s Founders knew it would take educated citizens for this democratic republic to succeed. But nowhere did they mention the quadratic formula.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/06/end-useless-math-requirements/ (Archive)
 
The more I remember that I’m bad at math the more I remember that others are so bad at it they want it to be non-existent.
 
Math has a place but I do think it's overtaught. Advanced algebra bullshit should stay as a college requirement for degrees in which it's relevant, I cannot think of any reason I would ever need to understand what a polynomial is, the quadratic formula, or that the square root of -1 is imaginary.

I have never once used a Shakespeare play or my knowledge of Eisenhower's Presidential campaign for anything.

Symbolic algebra and the Cartesian plane, are the intellectual revolutions that drove the creation of science as we know it. Without it, the language for Newton's calculus, and therefore literally all of science and engineering as we know it, doesn't exist.

The reason students should have to learn the foundational knowledge of our civilization to graduate from a university is because it's the foundational knowledge of our civilization. You don't need another reason.
 
If you're good at math, you can easily make money outside of the corporate system.
The world is full of numbers and understanding them is the key to success.
The stock market, for example, is all numbers, all the biggest long term earners in it are math nerds or at the very least, they hire math nerds.
Learn your numbers, kids.
 
I agree that advanced mathematics is probably overemphasized at lower education levels, but of course this is largely done so students can get a feel for what they're in for before they start committing to it at higher learning. It's not ideal to do a theoretical physics course if you only find out after you've taken out your loans that calculus does your head in. That said,

That same revolution has given us a crisis of conspiracy theories and a polluted public discourse. What’s at risk now is our ability to reason together as citizens.
this seems to have been the actual point of the article. Why teach unimportant stuff like algebra and math when Orange Man bad?
 
I struggled with math. It was so bad. I had tutors, remedial classes and I studied for hours every day. I was never able to understand it. If it's not relevant to your path of study then it is indeed a waste of time and a barrier o f entry. College math requirements for non math using majors wastes the student's time and money. Lowering these requirements for said majors is not going to hurt anyone. Just don't lower them for the ones that need math. Because I don't want to die due to some retard who got hired because his engineering degree didn't require him to know what 2+2 equals.
 
America’s Founders knew it would take educated citizens for this democratic republic to succeed. But nowhere did they mention the quadratic formula.
I kinda get where the author is coming from, but he's still a smoothbrain.

I'm an engineer and don't use mathematical principles beyond what I learned at the beginning of highschool -- i.e. I;ve never used calculus, or polynomials in my work. But I've also read writings of Hume, Trotsky and Twain and will probably never use those tidbits of knowledge, either.

But that's not the point. The point is to improve and accrue knowledge. You never know where some random factoid or familiarity with a concept will be advantageous in life.

Siri is available 24/7 to provide the answer.
Lol you can go on youtube and look up videos of people convincing a ChatGPT session that 2+2 = 5. Imagine trusting AI for anything besides rote, menial tasks.
 
I kinda don't disagree with this. Math should be only taught in a basic level universally in schools: sums, percentage, interest, fractions, etc. Things that are useful in life and people shouldn't be able to graduate unless they ace this, even if it takes them years to pass.
to properly understand interest (a special case of exponential growth) you kind of need to understand exponentiation, and with that comes logarithms and some other stuff.

in general the rapid spread and advancement of digital technology makes knowing and understanding mathematics more important than it has ever been. if you don't understand basic maths you can't really understand computers either, which means you're stuck being tech illiterate forever
 
Only 22 percent of the nation’s workers use any math more advanced than fractions
If anything, that's reason to teach more algebra, geometry, and trigonometry. Anyone that builds stuff for a living needs to know at least how to put it in a calculator. I have watched plumbers make 45° offsets by cutting the pipe long and trimming it 4-5 times to make it fit. It makes me want to scream. Offset distance times 1.414.
 
Dumb example, because that actually IS one of the ones you’ll use if you do any kind of ‘stuff that deals with bits of things’ like quilting, DIY etc.

You buy a 55 inch telly for your deano box. That’s a measure diagonally. It’s x inches tall, will it fit on that wall? You need to run a cable across something diagonally and you know only the vertical and horizontal. Etc. it’s one of the things people actually DO use in real life.
I think we should be taught more maths tbh. Especially stuff like ‘how to lie with statistics’ ‘the wonders/horrors of compound interest’ etc. nobody should leave school without the ability to balance their budget, pay bills and have a critical eye on the nonsense the media puts out.
Holy shit you are alive!!!
 
The issue with how we teach math is that it is mostly just blind memorization instead of learning how/why it works. (Too often its just saved for pre-calc)
As a consequence, you get a bunch of retards that do not understand the value of literally anything they learn.
 
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You don't need to memorize the quadratic formula if you learn to derive it. Just take (a+b)^2 = a^2 +2ab + b^2 and do it backwards. It's easier than it seems.
 
I bet this journo had the misfortune of dealing with "Common Core" math. Which is literally made to be mind-numbing as possible, funded by that fuck Bill Gates and was meant to put niggers at an equal level as everyone else.

If anything, Math needs to be taught more but effectively as part of the reason why kids hate the fuck out of Math is due to how its taught and are never told its chief benefits at learning numerics. Such as making shit. Again, thanks to Common Core.
 
This is the kind of people that math filters out in college, for damn good reason.

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If you don't understand Trigonometry you are basically a cargo-cultist. You think you understand cause and effect, but in practice you're just performing rituals to an imaginary god.
 
I found that the teacher is very important to comprehend math. I took a college Calculus course with some paki professor and couldn't grasp anything. Dude was awful. Took the same course with a different professor and got an A.
 
Totally agree. What do we need engineers for? We don't need bridges. Or buildings. Or Airplanes. Or Cars. And while we're at it, why are we going to space anyway? /sneed
 
The problem is that math is taught incorrectly. I saw this kid doing math work, basic arithmetic, and wasn’t allowed to use pen and paper.

Mental math is overrated. It’s great if you can do calculations in your head, but in real science and engineering everything has to be documented anyway. Everything you do should be on paper in pen (not pencil, that’s only for drafting), so there’s a clear record. Of course, we don’t bother with arithmetic and basic algebra, but to a seven year-old kid arithmetic is about as challenging as Calculus!

Even in domestic applications, like setting up a home theater, it’s good to have everything written down. Even if you can do the math in your head, you won’t remember what you did when you come back later and want to upgrade to 7.1 or whatever and need to run some new numbers.
 
Knowing how to do it makes you understand why and where it is useful. The only reason a teacher would have said this idiot probably wouldn't use pretty basic math is because they're a drooling idiot.

Understanding quadratic equations is very practical knowledge.

Giving people logic classes instead of math classes won't help anyone, even this article pontificating about it is so logically invalid you don't even need to do a proof to see it. It's also a bad idea because logic is not a complete science and getting people to grasp that is as futile as trying to teach hood rats in Baltimore to read. There are plenty of arguments that are valid and logic can't come up with tools to show it. Plus, most retards equate logical validity with truth and logic doesn't deal with truth. What is probably the most beautiful logic proof ever created, Kurt Gödel's ontological proof on the existence of God (his attempt to improve on Thomas Aquinas's) doesn't prove the existence of God, and Gödel was pretty hardcore atheist at the time he did the proof. Hell, even if something is logically invalid doesn't make it false or wrong to say.
 
Whoever wrote this doesn't understand how many doors a good head for math opens for blue collar workers.

I know people who started out at the bottom of the line monkey totem pole, then got promoted to do shit like pipeline testing, or who started out doing routine maintenance on the county fleet, then got recruited to do building inspections.

You don't need to know how to estimate the height of a tree using a tape measure and an angle finder until you do.

This brother has some 8-dimensional math skills:


Good thing his third grade teacher didn't decide that anything beyond addition and subtraction was pointless.
 
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