Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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Kari Kamiya said:
a near-retcon has happened involving Bardock wishing the best for his sons
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This entire chapter was a flashback (Yes, planet Cereal's dragon has only two balls)
Screenshot 2022-04-22 at 23-38-11 VIZ Read Dragon Ball Super, Chapter 83 Manga - Official Shon...png
 
Kari Kamiya said:
The fuck are those three, their designs are dreadful. They don't look like they're even from the Dragon Ball universe. Has Toriyama not been having much involvement with Super lately?
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IIRC, Toyotarou started taking on more of the writing beginning with this arc. I can't say for sure. And those are the Heeters. They are Freeza's speculators/brokers. They speculate planets for the Saiyans to wipe out, then oversee the operation and flip them for him. They aren't fighters, except for Gas. Here he is fighting Granolah, the last of the Cerealians, from 3 chapters ago. Both of them have used the Cerealian dragon to become the strongest in the Universe. Gas did it second, making him stronger.
Screenshot 2022-04-22 at 23-57-37 VIZ Read Dragon Ball Super, Chapter 81 Manga - Official Shon...png

He's also got an Incredible Hulk mode
View attachment Transformed_Gas2.PNG.webp
 
20 Mule Team Lorax said:
This last chapter almost retcons the entire series, attributing Goku's success to a wish made by Bardock. It also introduces a giant plothole. He wishes for his sons to thrive. Of course, Raditz dies right after we meet him, then we never see him again. Goku mentioned him in the previous issue, though, for the first time in who knows how long. Maybe we're about to see him again? Oh lawd.
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I'll have to read the chapter but that sounds incredibly retarded. They do remember the main timeline Goku dies of a heart virus never to return, and that we're technically following a different version of Goku, right? That's the exact opposite of thriving.

Seeing Raditz again would be cool, but this is a dumb way to bring him back.

Kari Kamiya said:
The fuck are those three, their designs are dreadful. They don't look like they're even from the Dragon Ball universe. Has Toriyama not been having much involvement with Super lately?
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Actually, the leader looks like a less pirate-y, more aristocratic version of Bojack to me. The girl is vaguely Toriyama looking, but the fat guy looks like a bad GT character.
 
SSj_Ness said:
They do remember
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We're talking about Toriyama and Toyotarou here
Actually, the leader looks like a less pirate-y, more aristocratic version of Bojack to me. The girl is vaguely Toriyama looking, but the fat guy looks like a bad GT character.
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Elec's design really reminds me of Bojack also. I think it works. Those other two don't even do anything and probably won't.

I can't say I mind them giving Bojack this wish. People are highly critical of this series, but I'm at least enjoying it. I'm not expecting a literary classic from it. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

We never actually saw the wish where Gas was made the strongest. Elec was the one who made it. I suspect there are some shenanigans going on there. The arc started out with Whis's fish making a prophecy that the strongest in the Universe would soon emerge but was exposed to Gas briefly and did not recognize him.
 
I'm confused about what the point of this arc is. Vegeta shows off Ultra Ego for five seconds, Granollah's apparently the strongest in the universe and then Gas outdoes him and Goku learns a bit about Bardock. Besides that it's just been a bunch of dicking around.
 
Downvote me to hell for this, but fuck it.
I enjoy GT more than the majority of Z
I will say that the first arc of Z is the best of the series, but Cell is overrated because of manchildren who self-insert as gohan and Buu is just bad.
 
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Fluoxetine Man said:
Turns out Bardock's wish is a mistranslation. What he originally says is closer to 'I want my sons to grow up big and strong!'.

Supposed cam pic of Raditz from the end of DBS: Super Hero.
View attachment 3213083
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I wonder what "strong" means specifically. Healthy? Powerful? If powerful then Raditz got fucked. If he does return and is buffed then the wish would make sense but still be kinda gay.

Snigger said:
Downvote me to hell for this, but fuck it.
I enjoy GT more than the majority of Z
I will say that the first arc of Z is the best of the series, but Cell is overrated because of manchildren who self-insert as gohan and Buu is just bad.
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GT>Z is fair but Cell Saga is great. Buu is good at first, then kinda falls apart when Gotenks shows up and it becomes a big, long gag fight. I think it ends well regardless.
 
SSj_Ness said:
I wonder what "strong" means specifically. Healthy? Powerful? If powerful then Raditz got fucked. If he does return and is buffed then the wish would make sense but still be kinda gay.


GT>Z is fair but Cell Saga is great. Buu is good at first, then kinda falls apart when Gotenks shows up and it becomes a big, long gag fight. I think it ends well regardless.
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Cell was completely disorganized and had no cohesion whatsoever.
Buu is indefensible.
Don't even argue with me, Toriyama has said as much himself.
 
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Snigger said:
Cell was completely disorganized and had no cohesion whatsoever.
Buu is indefensible.
Don't even argue with me, Toriyama has said as much himself.
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The actors of Z said their Kai performances were better too, but anybody who's heard a Vegeta or Piccolo speech knows that shit ain't true. Sometimes the people acting/creating are wrong about their own shit.

I will say the Saiyan saga was more organic. The Cell saga's shifting villains, bunch of new forms, multiple timelines and characters is a little sloppy in hindsight, but it was all cool shit so that helped a lot. Buu saga was rough, but nobody can tell me the first 1/3 with the Majin Vegeta stuff wasn't badass at least.
 
Snigger said:
I watched the series in release order, so I've always preferred the adventure oriented DB and GT over the action oriented Z and Super
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GT gave me my favorite arc (Baby Saga) & form (SS4) of the whole series, so I admit I'm a bit biased. But it felt great on multiple aspects, even moreso cause of DBS.
SSj_Ness said:
I wonder what "strong" means specifically. Healthy? Powerful? If powerful then Raditz got fucked. If he does return and is buffed then the wish would make sense but still be kinda gay.


GT>Z is fair but Cell Saga is great. Buu is good at first, then kinda falls apart when Gotenks shows up and it becomes a big, long gag fight. I think it ends well regardless.
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Cell Saga is great until you realise that it's just an literal amalgamation of retardations leading to it. Out of which, the only forgivable one being Krillin, due to the end result being absolutely fucking worth it.

Buu Saga is basically Tori realising that "I started a gag manga, it got turned into a battle manga (mostly due to the editor), let's get it back to being a gag manga". Can't really blame him for that.

SSj_Ness said:
The actors of Z said their Kai performances were better too, but anybody who's heard a Vegeta or Piccolo speech knows that shit ain't true. Sometimes the people acting/creating are wrong about their own shit.

I will say the Saiyan saga was more organic. The Cell saga's shifting villains, bunch of new forms, multiple timelines and characters is a little sloppy in hindsight, but it was all cool shit so that helped a lot. Buu saga was rough, but nobody can tell me the first 1/3 with the Majin Vegeta stuff wasn't badass at least.
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Kai sucks ass on multiple levels, for multiple reasons.
 
Xenomorphs Are Cute said:
Buu Saga is basically Tori realising that "I started a gag manga, it got turned into a battle manga (mostly due to the editor), let's get it back to being a gag manga". Can't really blame him for that.
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He also tried to hand the torch off to Gohan, which didn't work out so well. Hence why there was so much focus and build-up (especially with Old Kai drawing out his powers) only for it to go back to Goku.
 
Snigger said:
Downvote me to hell for this, but fuck it.
I enjoy GT more than the majority of Z
I will say that the first arc of Z is the best of the series, but Cell is overrated because of manchildren who self-insert as gohan and Buu is just bad.
Click to expand...
Z dragged everything out for way too long. As with pretty much all anime, the source manga is better. I understand people not liking the Cell saga, but it's generally a sign of DBZ not being somebody's cup of tea. Dragon Ball is just weird as hell. It's all over the place. It keeps switching genres, and in that, it's its own thing. The Cell saga picks up where Freeza left off with Dragon Ball becoming a science-fiction series.

That said, I thought Cell's introduction was primo. It was like a horror story there for a little while.

I will always think DB peaked with the first fight between Goku and Vegeta. It was the perfect fusion of Goku's story as an up-and-comer and a martial arts master and what DB would eventually become as a showcase for super fighting and ridiculous stakes.
Xenomorphs Are Cute said:
Buu Saga is basically Tori realising that "I started a gag manga, it got turned into a battle manga (mostly due to the editor), let's get it back to being a gag manga". Can't really blame him for that.
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That's what made the Buu saga work for me. Everything about it was a callback to where the story started, with silliness, the Tenkaichi Budokai, magic, the works. It became a lighthearted little adventure again. That's ultimately why I enjoy both GT and Super, too. I feel like they hold onto the original spirit of Dragon Ball, whereas Z lost it for a while.
 
20 Mule Team Lorax said:
Z dragged everything out for way too long. As with pretty much all anime, the source manga is better. I understand people not liking the Cell saga, but it's generally a sign of DBZ not being somebody's cup of tea. Dragon Ball is just weird as hell. It's all over the place. It keeps switching genres, and in that, it's its own thing. The Cell saga picks up where Freeza left off with Dragon Ball becoming a science-fiction series.

That said, I thought Cell's introduction was primo. It was like a horror story there for a little while.

I will always think DB peaked with the first fight between Goku and Vegeta. It was the perfect fusion of Goku's story as an up-and-comer and a martial arts master and what DB would eventually become as a showcase for super fighting and ridiculous stakes.

That's what made the Buu saga work for me. Everything about it was a callback to where the story started, with silliness, the Tenkaichi Budokai, magic, the works. It became a lighthearted little adventure again. That's ultimately why I enjoy both GT and Super, too. I feel like they hold onto the original spirit of Dragon Ball, whereas Z lost it for a while.
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Honestly original Cell was pretty kino, but the android shit was meandering and uninteresting. I love original Dragon Ball because it just has this goofy vibe to it I can't pretend to not love. Like the Rabbit Crew, the Pirate Robot, I could go on.
 
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