Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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I'll never forget how Cell was a true chad in the Buu Saga
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
There are still some cool shit from post Cell, especially fusions which are awesome incarnate. In the end DBZ is not deep enough to necessitate a definite ending.
Also the Buu saga played a lot with the series tropes and concluded Vegeta's plot arc, I can't say it was the same as Cell.
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For all the bad things I could say about the Buu saga, I do think it has my all time favorite DBZ moment.

Vegeta fighting Kid Buu, gets brutally beaten down, is certain he will die, but knowing he needs to keep Buu distracted, he gets back up, delivers a kick ass speech and powers up to dive back into the fight.

Loved that.
 
I enjoyed Kai, but man were some parts of it so meh. I don't know the general consensus here about it or the original Funi Dub/2003 Redub. For as corny as it could be during the Frieza saga, I think they really started to nail it during the Android/Cell Sagas, and the Buu Saga dub was fantastic. I know the purpose of Kai was to make it as close to the manga, and cut the faff, but that led to this weird feelings where scenes just couldn't breathe. Not only looking choppy, but just way too fast. Scene scene scene, speech speech speech.

And then there's how some scenes were better in the original dub, and sometimes even made more sense. Majin Vegeta's speech at the tournament being a perfect example. In the original he gets pissed off when Supreme Kai says "Don't you see the universe matters more than your meaningless swabble?!". Here you have the closest thing to a god in the series up to this point basically telling Vegeta his motivation, the thing that's been driving him all these years, is completely pointless. That would absolutely piss him off.

But in Kai, Supreme Kai just questions his actions with a remark about his foolish pride... Ehh that doesn't have the same bite, and feels like something Vegeta would laugh off. And of course other great lines like "His debts must be paid", "I wanted him to return me to the way I was before", Super Buu's "You're missing the point", it's all just better imo. And of course Bruce Falconer's score adding so much to scenes like Gohan defeating Cell, or any of the above scenes.

Sorry for rambling haha, these thoughts just came after watching several YouTube clips of DBZ.
 
Sexyphobe said:
I enjoyed Kai, but man were some parts of it so meh. I don't know the general consensus here about it or the original Funi Dub/2003 Redub. For as corny as it could be during the Frieza saga, I think they really started to nail it during the Android/Cell Sagas, and the Buu Saga dub was fantastic. I know the purpose of Kai was to make it as close to the manga, and cut the faff, but that led to this weird feelings where scenes just couldn't breathe. Not only looking choppy, but just way too fast. Scene scene scene, speech speech speech.

And then there's how some scenes were better in the original dub, and sometimes even made more sense. Majin Vegeta's speech at the tournament being a perfect example. In the original he gets pissed off when Supreme Kai says "Don't you see the universe matters more than your meaningless swabble?!". Here you have the closest thing to a god in the series up to this point basically telling Vegeta his motivation, the thing that's been driving him all these years, is completely pointless. That would absolutely piss him off.

But in Kai, Supreme Kai just questions his actions with a remark about his foolish pride... Ehh that doesn't have the same bite, and feels like something Vegeta would laugh off. And of course other great lines like "His debts must be paid", "I wanted him to return me to the way I was before", Super Buu's "You're missing the point", it's all just better imo. And of course Bruce Falconer's score adding so much to scenes like Gohan defeating Cell, or any of the above scenes.

Sorry for rambling haha, these thoughts just came after watching several YouTube clips of DBZ.
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I personally prefer OG Z myself too. It's as you said, there's a soul to the OG Z which Kai is missing. That, & some fillers are genuinely great, specially ones written by Toriyama himself at the time of Saiyan Saga.
 
Sexyphobe said:
I enjoyed Kai, but man were some parts of it so meh. I don't know the general consensus here about it or the original Funi Dub/2003 Redub. For as corny as it could be during the Frieza saga, I think they really started to nail it during the Android/Cell Sagas, and the Buu Saga dub was fantastic. I know the purpose of Kai was to make it as close to the manga, and cut the faff, but that led to this weird feelings where scenes just couldn't breathe. Not only looking choppy, but just way too fast. Scene scene scene, speech speech speech.

And then there's how some scenes were better in the original dub, and sometimes even made more sense. Majin Vegeta's speech at the tournament being a perfect example. In the original he gets pissed off when Supreme Kai says "Don't you see the universe matters more than your meaningless swabble?!". Here you have the closest thing to a god in the series up to this point basically telling Vegeta his motivation, the thing that's been driving him all these years, is completely pointless. That would absolutely piss him off.

But in Kai, Supreme Kai just questions his actions with a remark about his foolish pride... Ehh that doesn't have the same bite, and feels like something Vegeta would laugh off. And of course other great lines like "His debts must be paid", "I wanted him to return me to the way I was before", Super Buu's "You're missing the point", it's all just better imo. And of course Bruce Falconer's score adding so much to scenes like Gohan defeating Cell, or any of the above scenes.

Sorry for rambling haha, these thoughts just came after watching several YouTube clips of DBZ.
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Ocean Dub was the best mostly because of the Ginyu Force.
 
You know which filler scenario I’m surprised Tori/Toei didn’t take advantage of for Saiyan appetites? Eating contests, as I saw this while browsing Twitter. Goku would've cleared the other contestants' plates right after he downed what was on his own!
@fuusyasuke.jpeg
Source
 
Y'know something? I've always hated the Tenkaichi games. The only thing they did right was adding in a lot of underused characters from DragonBall and characters like King Vegeta, and letting us use the Great Ape forms of the saiyans even if they all played the same. Which was an issue with the whole roster really, and most DB games in general.

Other than that, I'd argue Raging Blast 2 was the better game and extremely underrated. It's not talked about much because the first one was pretty stiff, and it came after the soggy biscuit of the Tenkaichi series, but in terms of its controls and visual? Far superior to anything before it. Even kept the open arena thing the Tenkai series did, while doing away with the dumb lock on mechanic. Hell I'd even argue it was the best pure fighting game in DragonBall until DBFZ. Even then I'd take points away from DBFZ for wasting roster slots on transformed states instead of them being install supers/in game transformations, and being a Marvel clone.

Raging Blast 2 was extremely easy to pick up and play, while also having a very high skill ceiling. You could have the most DragonBall like fights possible with all constant vanishes, ping pong combos, beam struggles, and seemingly never ending assaults thanks to the Raging Soul mechanic. And that's not getting into the customization you were allowed. From switching your super moves, to altering your aura, nerfing/buffing yourself with appropriate set backs/benefits, or just giving yourself a little halo. Shit was cash and helped your goku stand out from your opponents. And you could have like 3-4 load outs per character to boot.

Even had it's own unique mechanic with team supers. So you could do the whole spirit bomb sequence against vegeta or the full Nelson special beam cannon etc.

The only real downside(s) was its lackluster/nonexistent story mode which was basically Budokai 2's board of saga/character appropriate fights with mid-match dialog plus a few extra encounters, and it's relatively basic roster.

You had basically everyone you'd expect from DBZ and a handful of movie villains(Bojack and zangya, Meta Cooler, Super Janemba, Hatchiyack, Tulles, Androids 13/14/15, Bardock). You had two what-ifs in SSJ3 Broly and Vegeta. And we got Tarble, vegetas semi(?) Canon little brother. Cool shit. But we still had wasted roster slots on generic freeza soldier, saibamen, and cell jr. As well as a lack of  any GT cast was a bummer. And it's sound track was pretty meh overall.

But all in all, as a pure DB fighting game? Easily a solid 8/10 for me. The only thing it's really missing is a few GT characters and forms, and some of the OG DB cast.

Cautiously optimistic about Budokai 4. Hopefully they don't fuck it up. One day I wanna rant about DBFZ and how it's the biggest let down in DB gaming since Ultimate Tenkaichi.
 
Some people say that bringing Cell back instead of Frieza would have been the smartest strategy but...would it?

If Frieza could do a ludicrous leap with just a few months of training, imagine Cell's (who has Frieza's DNA). To the point I legit think it would have put him at Black Frieza level from the get go, and while you can say Frieza has some twisted standards as to leave his enemies alive, I dont think Cell is the type to do that sort of thing twice. He allowed Gohan to get stronger and that resulted him getting vaporized so he surely wouldnt keep the Z-Fighters around after he no longer needs them.
 
RumblyTumbly said:
For all the bad things I could say about the Buu saga, I do think it has my all time favorite DBZ moment.

Vegeta fighting Kid Buu, gets brutally beaten down, is certain he will die, but knowing he needs to keep Buu distracted, he gets back up, delivers a kick ass speech and powers up to dive back into the fight.

Loved that.
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The Buu saga does more for Vegeta's character than anyone else's. Between finally getting the fight with Goku he's been after for nearly 20 years. To becoming a selfless good person that fights for his family and others.

Anyone that grew up with DB that liked Goku the most that didn't become more a Vegeta fan with age is just weird to me. Goku is white bread and his plot armor powerups are beyond irritating and stale.
The handsome tard said:
Some people say that bringing Cell back instead of Frieza would have been the smartest strategy but...would it?

If Frieza could do a ludicrous leap with just a few months of training, imagine Cell's (who has Frieza's DNA). To the point I legit think it would have put him at Black Frieza level from the get go, and while you can say Frieza has some twisted standards as to leave his enemies alive, I dont think Cell is the type to do that sort of thing twice. He allowed Gohan to get stronger and that resulted him getting vaporized so he surely wouldnt keep the Z-Fighters around after he no longer needs them.
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I would go as far as say start putting in GT villains. Besides Beerus, every antagonist is generally worst than anything that was in GT. I liked Baby since he was a technorganic parasite which is sorta Cell like but he was a body snatcher instead of absorption.
 
I much would have prefered Super Buu being the Buu that stuck around rather than Fat Buu.
Feels like his sadistic and yet still smart enough to be snarky moments would be great as part of the Z-Team (instead of constantly fat/lazy jokes with Fat Buu).

Also the bonus that Super Buu can absorb enemies but with enemies this strong, feels like it would be a serious double edged sword (so goes with the candy beam, strong enough victims can STILL keep fighting like Vegeto did).

Lone Star said:
Unfortunately, Cell has too many spots, so he can't be in the manga anymore.
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Yeah, I do remember how Toriyama said he legit had an awful time with Cell given his spots and he had to try to keep one consistent with their position with different angles.

Tho Cell Max does have the spots (tho he looks like more semi-perfect than perfect) so I wonder if that reason still works today.
Wesker said:
I would go as far as say start putting in GT villains. Besides Beerus, every antagonist is generally worst than anything that was in GT. I liked Baby since he was a technorganic parasite which is sorta Cell like but he was a body snatcher instead of absorption.
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Baby was great because he was tied to the series's mythos and having something from the past of the saiyans coming back to get revenge. I always felt like that concept of someone that the saiyans wronged to get revenge was an underused concept (at least properly).
 
The handsome tard said:
Baby was great because he was tied to the series's mythos and having something from the past of the saiyans coming back to get revenge. I always felt like that concept of someone that the saiyans wronged to get revenge was an underused concept (at least properly).
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They were Frieza's muscle for probably decades or more, so they don't even necessarily need to go there with Baby. Just invent some other race they wiped out.

I wouldn't hold my breathe with any lore centric villains in whatever they do with it's return. And of course Goku will kill all the villains, even with Gohan buffed.

It's why I like the entirety of the Android/Cell saga the most of the series since it ends with someone else beating the final villain. I think Toriyama is a hack now since he's just shitting this stuff out for the studios and it's drawn by inferior artists, but I'll always commend him for the balls to kill Goku off finally. It wasn't even his decision to wreck the Buu saga.
 
The handsome tard said:
I always felt like that concept of someone that the saiyans wronged to get revenge was an underused concept (at least properly).
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Wesker said:
They were Frieza's muscle for probably decades or more, so they don't even necessarily need to go there with Baby. Just invent some other race they wiped out.
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I mean, they did that in the manga with Granolah and the Cerealians. It's just that, like with nearly all Super arcs (imo), they started off with a good concept that gets all derailed and crazy around the middle of the arc, culminating with an underwhelming ending coming out of the left field that has nothing to do with the premise.
 
Trombonista said:
She says she'll stop voice acting when she stops breathing and wishes she could live as long as Dr. Kureha from One Piece (another role of hers).
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It still doesn't make a difference
 
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