Dragon Age: The Veilguard - A woke disaster? Yep!

[A Sentient Cloud]

Dragon Age has always had a feminist angle to it -- everything from the Christ stand-in to the most powerful dragons are female, and it's never questioned that women can perform every role, no matter how improbable, as well as a man. It's always been sexually progressive, with same-sex relationships portrayed as wholesome and healthy and accepted in most of Thedas's cultures.

But Origins was also not afraid to portray opposing values -- the Qunari are definitely not down with trans bullshit in the first game, and it's why the Iron Bull stuff in DAI rang so hollow. It's a fairly common situation where someone is determined to always be at the forefront of the movement, and claims they always believed the fringiest stuff, even when the reality is they've gotten more and more radical over the years. I think the decline in quality has more to do with the general cultural narcissism that's shredding so many franchises these days. Must be more progressive than thou; must make The Message more important than story, characters, or continuity; must make absolutely sure no one would mistake us for trolls / shitlords / Trumptards.

I can't say I entirely disagree with anything you've written here, but I have a possibly hot take that we're overstating the amount of wokery in Inquisition. You've brought up Krem and the (possible) retcon of Qunari values, but if we're being completely honest, that character's arc has maybe 2 minutes of dedicated screen time over the course of a ~60 hour playthrough, and they can be killed to boot.

What else really is there? There isn't any aspect of the world, from what I can recall, that is depicted as objectively right or wrong. I guess you can't roleplay a homophobe, but you can definitely roleplay a racist/xenophobe IIRC. You can even be freaked out by Krem, though Iron Bull doesn't like that.

My problems with Inquisition mostly have to do with the bad worldbuilding, the bloat/feature creep, and the standard nu-Bioware bullshit of selling plot-critical lore as DLC. I don't see any great reason that won't continue in Dreadwolf (assuming it ever comes out). I know there was a trans PM overseeing the game but given the churn going on with the project it wouldn't shock me if they were gone by now.

 

[Mola Ram]

I can't say I entirely disagree with anything you've written here, but I have a possibly hot take that we're overstating the amount of wokery in Inquisition. You've brought up Krem and the (possible) retcon of Qunari values, but if we're being completely honest, that character's arc has maybe 2 minutes of dedicated screen time over the course of a ~60 hour playthrough, and they can be killed to boot.

What else really is there? There isn't any aspect of the world, from what I can recall, that is depicted as objectively right or wrong. I guess you can't roleplay a homophobe, but you can definitely roleplay a racist/xenophobe IIRC. You can even be freaked out by Krem, though Iron Bull doesn't like that.

My problems with Inquisition mostly have to do with the bad worldbuilding, the bloat/feature creep, and the standard nu-Bioware bullshit of selling plot-critical lore as DLC. I don't see any great reason that won't continue in Dreadwolf (assuming it ever comes out). I know there was a trans PM overseeing the game but given the churn going on with the project it wouldn't shock me if they were gone by now.

Yeah, I phrased it badly but I was more talking about BioWare's decline in general and what I expect from DA4 (as well as what I've gleaned from the ancillary stuff like the cartoon that's come out since then) than I was DAI. I'd argue there's a bit more wokeness than just the Krem stuff -- Dorian's Very Special Episode of a personal quest is probably the biggest -- but it's not so comprehensive that it ruins the game. Relegating so much lore to novels and comics is a bigger problem.

 

[Waifuchu]

I can't say I entirely disagree with anything you've written here, but I have a possibly hot take that we're overstating the amount of wokery in Inquisition. You've brought up Krem and the (possible) retcon of Qunari values, but if we're being completely honest, that character's arc has maybe 2 minutes of dedicated screen time over the course of a ~60 hour playthrough, and they can be killed to boot.

What else really is there? There isn't any aspect of the world, from what I can recall, that is depicted as objectively right or wrong. I guess you can't roleplay a homophobe, but you can definitely roleplay a racist/xenophobe IIRC. You can even be freaked out by Krem, though Iron Bull doesn't like that.

My problems with Inquisition mostly have to do with the bad worldbuilding, the bloat/feature creep, and the standard nu-Bioware bullshit of selling plot-critical lore as DLC. I don't see any great reason that won't continue in Dreadwolf (assuming it ever comes out). I know there was a trans PM overseeing the game but given the churn going on with the project it wouldn't shock me if they were gone by now.

It's been a while since I played DAI, so I might be forgetting some bits and pieces, but off the top of my head, for blatant wokeness we have:

Krem the stunning and brave "man" with a vagina.

The Qunari love trannies, guys! They even have a special word for it and everything, now sit down and let ol' Uncle Iron Bull explain the wonders of the gender spectrum to you, and why you gotta accept those pronouns!​

​

Dorian's very special personal quest, featuring zero combat, zero notes, and is basically just a long cutscene where he yells at his mean ol' homophobic daddy for not accepting him.​

​

Yet more from Iron Bull, we have his weirdly in-depth BDSM thing, complete with explanations of safe words and repeated assurances that such things are normal and healthy and nobody should feel remotely ashamed about it. It's just too detailed for me to not believe it's some writer's actual fetish slipping in, and/or their way of going "Hey guys, don't kinkshame, m'kay?"​

​

Non-white generic NPCs everywhere. This one is kinda borderline, since I don't normally think fictional non-ethnostate settings qualify as woke, but the generic NPCs in the first two games were all about as white as you would expect from a medieval European fantasy setting, while the nameless generic NPCs in Inquisition are the complete opposite.​

​

There's some lore note that's outright called something like: "Sexualities in Thedas" that blatantly states that none of the fictional nations in the setting discriminate about sexualities, and gay rights are human rights, and love is love, and there's absolutely no discrimination at all! ...Except Tevinter, which is the most cartoonishly evil nation in the entire setting, so of course homophobia can be added to their unforgivable crimes.​

​

After two games of build-up, we finally meet the Orlesian Empress... Who's a lesbian, and super in love with her racially-ambiguous elf handmaiden, and getting those two to hook back up is pretty heavily implied to be the "good" outcome for the Orlais Court plotline. (Apparently this bothers some people who read the books, because in the books that relationship was abusive or something, but fuck if I know.)​

​

Varric's girlfriend is a pretty blatant example of a stronk female character, that treats everyone around her like shit, causes more problems than she solves, and yet the narrative/other characters treat her as a faultless badass.​

​

And apparently if you imported a Hawke that had romanced Isabella, there's some line about how he doesn't mind her getting dick on the side, but I haven't ever encountered that line, so it may not actually be real.​

I don't remember any other instances off the top of my head, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are more. And in the interest of fairness, I'll subtract a couple woke-pandering-points for Sera daring to not respect some nameless background NPC's pronouns, and for being an emotionally manipulative girlfriend to elf Inquisitors, while also having a blatant racial fetish for Qunari and Dwarves.

 

[Mola Ram]

Dorian's very special personal quest, featuring zero combat, zero notes, and is basically just a long cutscene where he yells at his mean ol' homophobic daddy for not accepting him.

I've mentioned this before, but Dorian's refusal to put aside his need to live as an open homosexual when he has quasi-noble responsibilities to continue his line (especially if he's to be taken seriously as some kind of reformer) is horribly selfish, and fairly at odds with many situations depicted in the world where a married noble maintains a more romantic relationship than one that's pursued out of obligation (a hardened Alistair marrying Anora while dallying with the Warden being the best example).

Yet more from Iron Bull, we have his weirdly in-depth BDSM thing, complete with explanations of safe words and repeated assurances that such things are normal and healthy and nobody should feel remotely ashamed about it. It's just too detailed for me to not believe it's some writer's actual fetish slipping in, and/or their way of going "Hey guys, don't kinkshame, m'kay?"

It's supremely weird and more than a little ridiculous that a figure who's awfully close to being the Second Coming of Christ / Andraste can openly carry on a fetishistic relationship (possibly homosexual and/or interracial with a member of the biggest group of infidel's secret police) and face no consequences whatsoever.

Non-white generic NPCs everywhere. This one is kinda borderline, since I don't normally think fictional non-ethnostate settings qualify as woke, but the generic NPCs in the first two games were all about as white as you would expect from a medieval European fantasy setting, while the nameless generic NPCs in Inquisition are the complete opposite.

Connecting physical appearances to nations was done rather tepidly in the previous games, but you did see folk from Rivain like Isabela and I think Duncan tended toward darker skin. Orlesians, Fereldans, and Free Marchers were to my recollection generally Caucasian. In DAI there's no such correlation at all. Honestly, though, I tend to give them a pass on this. I think it's less to do with making sure your fantasy world looks like 21st century NYC (or Toronto, I suppose) -- though that's definitely part of it -- and more so you can make your character look however you like and not really stand out. As a bit of artistic license to make it easier to have your character reflect your own wishes, it doesn't ruffle my feathers much.

There's some lore note that's outright called something like: "Sexualities in Thedas" that blatantly states that none of the fictional nations in the setting discriminate about sexualities, and gay rights are human rights, and love is love, and there's absolutely no discrimination at all!

I've been thinking a lot about this codex entry, because it's good example of how little the writers cared about maintaining the suspension of disbelief. Codex entries are usually supposed to be samples of in-world texts, this one coming from Brother Genitivi ... but who is it written for? If same-sex relationships being groovy is the baseline, then who would need to be told that? Obviously it's meant for the player, but as a piece of supposedly actual Thedosian scholarship it feels completely artificial.

Except Tevinter, which is the most cartoonishly evil nation in the entire setting, so of course homophobia can be added to their unforgivable crimes.

It's eye-rolling how the only decent Tevinters we've met are all gay or trans.

After two games of build-up, we finally meet the Orlesian Empress... Who's a lesbian, and super in love with her racially-ambiguous elf handmaiden, and getting those two to hook back up is pretty heavily implied to be the "good" outcome for the Orlais Court plotline.

Gameplay wise, this is indeed the optimal outcome, because it's the only one that gives your character an Amulet of Power.

Varric's girlfriend is a pretty blatant example of a stronk female character, that treats everyone around her like shit, causes more problems than she solves, and yet the narrative/other characters treat her as a faultless badass.

And Varric, so snarky and strongwilled, is an utter pussy around her. Considering he's a pretty blatant creator's pet, it's even more obvious how much they're puffing up Bianca, for reasons which escape me. Don't forget she's the one who figures out the nature of red lyrium, which makes me suspect she's going to show up in DA4.

Despite all this, I don't think it ruins the game ... but it's definitely hard to overlook it.

 

[Waifuchu]

Connecting physical appearances to nations was done rather tepidly in the previous games, but you did see folk from Rivain like Isabela and I think Duncan tended toward darker skin. Orlesians, Fereldans, and Free Marchers were to my recollection generally Caucasian. In DAI there's no such correlation at all. Honestly, though, I tend to give them a pass on this. I think it's less to do with making sure your fantasy world looks like 21st century NYC (or Toronto, I suppose) -- though that's definitely part of it -- and more so you can make your character look however you like and not really stand out. As a bit of artistic license to make it easier to have your character reflect your own wishes, it doesn't ruffle my feathers much.

Yeah, personally that one doesn't really bother me. Maybe Rivain just had a population boom between DA2 and Inquisition.

 

[ZMOT]

"Woke" wasn't really a thing in 2009. It was instead doing the cringe "this ain't your momma's fantasy" tits-and-dragons grimdark shit of the period that saw its fruition in Game of Thrones. The trailer, complete with Marilyn Manson song, has not aged well IMO.

I still take that over everything we got since

That explains the gameplay issues, like the shameless reusing of hallway dungeons (that fucking mansion dungeon…), but the story was definitely the precursor to current year bullshit.

that was just shitty bioware writing with archetypes that go back all the way to the 90's and further. and I never met anyone who didn't think anders was a complete fucking retard even by [CURRENT YEAR] standards.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

Yeah, personally that one doesn't really bother me. Maybe Rivain just had a population boom between DA2 and Inquisition.

There are seemingly very few physical or economic barriers in Thedas, so it makes sense that you'd see all different types of people milling around. It also makes sense that there wouldn't be much inter-human racism given the presence of non-human races who seem to be significantly more culturally unified and physically unlike humans.

 

[Tepes Thot]

I still take that over everything we got since


that was just shitty bioware writing with archetypes that go back all the way to the 90's and further. and I never met anyone who didn't think anders was a complete fucking retard even by [CURRENT YEAR] standards.

Hard disagree. If that were the case it should’ve been that way in DAO, or even ME 1-2. ME3 had stupidity, but it was due more to them not respecting their own lore than anything else.

DA 2 was definitely current year bullshit’s father, but agree to disagree.

 

[ZMOT]

Hard disagree. If that were the case it should’ve been that way in DAO, or even ME 1-2. ME3 had stupidity, but it was due more to them not respecting their own lore than anything else.

DA 2 was definitely current year bullshit’s father, but agree to disagree.

not being always shit doesn't mean they were always good. ME2 was already questionable with it's completely pointless plot and contra III end boss, ME3 was retarded right from the start. DAO wasn't perfect either, but it wasn't so offensively bad the rest of the game couldn't carry it over the finish line, aka "bioware magic".

 

[Beebo]

I am a total sucker for Bioware style dialogue systems in games.
I'll at least pirate it if nothing else.

 

[StacticShock]

Dorian's very special personal quest, featuring zero combat, zero notes, and is basically just a long cutscene where he yells at his mean ol' homophobic daddy for not accepting him.

Dorian's faggot quest is downright ridiculous, if you deviate only a little bit he gets pissy at you and the whole thing crashes down like the writers wanted to punish you for even pretending to be ignoramus about his faggotry.

 

[Next Task]

There's some lore note that's outright called something like: "Sexualities in Thedas" that blatantly states that none of the fictional nations in the setting discriminate about sexualities, and gay rights are human rights, and love is love, and there's absolutely no discrimination at all! ...Except Tevinter, which is the most cartoonishly evil nation in the entire setting, so of course homophobia can be added to their unforgivable crimes.

Sounds also like another tendency I've seen popping up in woke properties, where a person/place can be the obvious villain, kill kids, want to murder the heroes, etc. But none of that counts - the worst crime is that they're misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic. It's like they're too aware that their female audience has a thing for the villain, so the only way they can indicate they're really evil, no we mean it, is to have them not be woke. Either that, or because to the writers that's the biggest crime, so murdering the population of a small principality has nothing on someone not respecting pronouns or calling a woman a 'bitch' or 'slut'.

 

[BiggerChungus]

It's been a while since I played DAI, so I might be forgetting some bits and pieces, but off the top of my head, for blatant wokeness we have:

​

​

Krem the stunning and brave "man" with a vagina.​

​

The Qunari love trannies, guys! They even have a special word for it and everything, now sit down and let ol' Uncle Iron Bull explain the wonders of the gender spectrum to you, and why you gotta accept those pronouns!​

​

Dorian's very special personal quest, featuring zero combat, zero notes, and is basically just a long cutscene where he yells at his mean ol' homophobic daddy for not accepting him.​

​

Yet more from Iron Bull, we have his weirdly in-depth BDSM thing, complete with explanations of safe words and repeated assurances that such things are normal and healthy and nobody should feel remotely ashamed about it. It's just too detailed for me to not believe it's some writer's actual fetish slipping in, and/or their way of going "Hey guys, don't kinkshame, m'kay?"​

​

Non-white generic NPCs everywhere. This one is kinda borderline, since I don't normally think fictional non-ethnostate settings qualify as woke, but the generic NPCs in the first two games were all about as white as you would expect from a medieval European fantasy setting, while the nameless generic NPCs in Inquisition are the complete opposite.​

​

There's some lore note that's outright called something like: "Sexualities in Thedas" that blatantly states that none of the fictional nations in the setting discriminate about sexualities, and gay rights are human rights, and love is love, and there's absolutely no discrimination at all! ...Except Tevinter, which is the most cartoonishly evil nation in the entire setting, so of course homophobia can be added to their unforgivable crimes.​

​

After two games of build-up, we finally meet the Orlesian Empress... Who's a lesbian, and super in love with her racially-ambiguous elf handmaiden, and getting those two to hook back up is pretty heavily implied to be the "good" outcome for the Orlais Court plotline. (Apparently this bothers some people who read the books, because in the books that relationship was abusive or something, but fuck if I know.)​

​

Varric's girlfriend is a pretty blatant example of a stronk female character, that treats everyone around her like shit, causes more problems than she solves, and yet the narrative/other characters treat her as a faultless badass.​

​

And apparently if you imported a Hawke that had romanced Isabella, there's some line about how he doesn't mind her getting dick on the side, but I haven't ever encountered that line, so it may not actually be real.​

I don't remember any other instances off the top of my head, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are more. And in the interest of fairness, I'll subtract a couple woke-pandering-points for Sera daring to not respect some nameless background NPC's pronouns, and for being an emotionally manipulative girlfriend to elf Inquisitors, while also having a blatant racial fetish for Qunari and Dwarves.

The fact pronouns, detailed sexual fetishes, radical feminism, and gender identity are even present in what started as a heroic dark medieval fantasy setting is sad and stupid in and of itself, regardless of when and where they appear. I and probably most fans of DAO liked it because you could fight against evil demon-orc monsters and save the world, not so you could have an NPC lecture you about whi- human privilege and how much xey like taking it up the ass which everyone is very cool with and supportive of. There's so extremely little if any of that shit in Origins and it makes the later content really stand out in how shitty, forced, and out of place it all is. It goes without saying that woke shit is a cancer.

Sounds also like another tendency I've seen popping up in woke properties, where a person/place can be the obvious villain, kill kids, want to murder the heroes, etc. But none of that counts - the worst crime is that they're misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic. It's like they're too aware that their female audience has a thing for the villain, so the only way they can indicate they're really evil, no we mean it, is to have them not be woke. Either that, or because to the writers that's the biggest crime, so murdering the population of a small principality has nothing on someone not respecting pronouns or calling a woman a 'bitch' or 'slut'.

In turn, the woke "hero" can do whatever they want. There's a writeup of DA Absolution, and the heroes do some psycho shit in it, casually murdering mostly innocent people included, and it's passed off as fun and justified because the main villain's a mean bigot. Woke characters can be as sexist, racist, or murderous as they want, but it'll either not be addressed at all, called heroic and brave, or at most it'll be said that they're just damaged, and it's the bigot villain's fault they do what they do. Absolution does all three of those things, far as I can tell.

 

[Snekposter]

There's so extremely little if any of that shit in Origins and it makes the later content really stand out in how shitty, forced, and out of place it all is. It goes without saying that woke shit is a cancer.

I love that you if you start as a human noble dude you can bang a visiting noblewoman's elvish handmaiden who is super delighted to be anything but a floor-scrubber, and then when she tragically dies opening your door when the dude launches his coup you go "Oh no! Anyway..." and immediately embark on a desperate attempt to save your family, completely uncaring of the dead elven whore in your bedchambers.

 

[Mola Ram]

I love that you if you start as a human noble dude you can bang a visiting noblewoman's elvish handmaiden who is super delighted to be anything but a floor-scrubber, and then when she tragically dies opening your door when the dude launches his coup you go "Oh no! Anyway..." and immediately embark on a desperate attempt to save your family, completely uncaring of the dead elven whore in your bedchambers.

The Dwarf Noble can get into a threesome with a pair of noble hunters, impregnate one of them, and abandon his child when he learns of its existence.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I love that you if you start as a human noble dude you can bang a visiting noblewoman's elvish handmaiden who is super delighted to be anything but a floor-scrubber, and then when she tragically dies opening your door when the dude launches his coup you go "Oh no! Anyway..." and immediately embark on a desperate attempt to save your family, completely uncaring of the dead elven whore in your bedchambers.

You can also bang the noblewomen's son and do the exact same "oh no! Anyway..." (No threesome option though, I tried.) BioWarian RPGs do a good bit of stuff like that to keep the plot on the rails.

 

[Rogue Telvanni]

I love that you if you start as a human noble dude you can bang a visiting noblewoman's elvish handmaiden who is super delighted to be anything but a floor-scrubber, and then when she tragically dies opening your door when the dude launches his coup you go "Oh no! Anyway..." and immediately embark on a desperate attempt to save your family, completely uncaring of the dead elven whore in your bedchambers.

While at the dalish camp (not the origin one) you can find a guy that is desperate for some elf coochie, learn of the dating tradition for hunters and bang the woman he loves yourself.
Though not romance related, I also love how much of a dick you can be in Redcliffe - learn that the town is getting attacked by the undead, tell them to sort their own shit out, come back and kill Conrad to deal with the demon.

 

[BiggerChungus]

While at the dalish camp (not the origin one) you can find a guy that is desperate for some elf coochie, learn of the dating tradition for hunters and bang the woman he loves yourself.
Though not romance related, I also love how much of a dick you can be in Redcliffe - learn that the town is getting attacked by the undead, tell them to sort their own shit out, come back and kill Conrad to deal with the demon.

Even beyond the options to be a dick, you've also got options to be heroic, moral, and even religious. You can play your Warden many different ways, and as far as I can remember none of them even come close to the SJW shit forced on you in the later games, nor do you ever come across any of it yourself. A few things come close to feeling SJWy, arguably, but nothing ever hits it, and it's nowhere near as aggressively pandering as what came later.

 

[Mola Ram]

Even beyond the options to be a dick, you've also got options to be heroic, moral, and even religious. You can play your Warden many different ways, and as far as I can remember none of them even come close to the SJW shit forced on you in the later games, nor do you ever come across any of it yourself. A few things come close to feeling SJWy, arguably, but nothing ever hits it, and it's nowhere near as aggressively pandering as what came later.

I will say this for Inquisition: it is a perfectly valid choice to play as an Inquisitor who genuinely believes he is Andraste's herald, and even the revelation that the figure in the fade was Divine Justinia V doesn't necessarily invalidate it. A faithful Inquisitor even has a few options in judgments that aren't otherwise available. I don't know if I'd go so far as to describe DA's treatment of religion as intelligent or respectful, but it's a bit more thoughtful than you expect from a gaggle of SJW chowderheads.

 

[krautkid]

Dorian's very special personal quest, featuring zero combat, zero notes, and is basically just a long cutscene where he yells at his mean ol' homophobic daddy for not accepting him.

I liked Dorian but when this side quest comes up it's like during the third half and when things are ramping up Doomsday wise. And all I could think was 'yo we have shit to DO stow your closet issues with Daddy'

I don't mind a vulnerable character moment that a previously established confident character is actually quite insecure about this and struggles with it but time and place. And iirc I can't even call him on it in character to shut the fuck up because if we fail there is no world left to be super gay in my dude.