Dragon Age: The Veilguard - A woke disaster? Yep!

[BiggerChungus]

A question I've been thinking about is: was Origins also woke? There are loads of current DA fans who say that all the SJW shit in Inquisition was there all along and that Origins was feminist, progressive-liberal, LGBTABCDEFG, and so on, and if you look at a lot of the old Origins developers' social media presences, most of them are very openly in the leftist camp. I don't remember anything in Origins that seemed aggressively woke to me, but maybe I'm forgetting something. I've seen some people bitching that it was a sexist and racist game too, though.

 

[Mola Ram]

A question I've been thinking about is: was Origins also woke? There are loads of current DA fans who say that all the SJW shit in Inquisition was there all along and that Origins was feminist, progressive-liberal, LGBTABCDEFG, and so on, and if you look at a lot of the old Origins developers' social media presences, most of them are very openly in the leftist camp. I don't remember anything in Origins that seemed aggressively woke to me, but maybe I'm forgetting something. I've seen some people bitching that it was a sexist and racist game too, though.

Dragon Age has always had a feminist angle to it -- everything from the Christ stand-in to the most powerful dragons are female, and it's never questioned that women can perform every role, no matter how improbable, as well as a man. It's always been sexually progressive, with same-sex relationships portrayed as wholesome and healthy and accepted in most of Thedas's cultures.

But Origins was also not afraid to portray opposing values -- the Qunari are definitely not down with trans bullshit in the first game, and it's why the Iron Bull stuff in DAI rang so hollow. It's a fairly common situation where someone is determined to always be at the forefront of the movement, and claims they always believed the fringiest stuff, even when the reality is they've gotten more and more radical over the years. I think the decline in quality has more to do with the general cultural narcissism that's shredding so many franchises these days. Must be more progressive than thou; must make The Message more important than story, characters, or continuity; must make absolutely sure no one would mistake us for trolls / shitlords / Trumptards.

 

[Waifuchu]

Origins (and 2) could be viewed as woke, but to me "woke" implies some really annoying, performative aspect to the values being pushed. Yeah, Origins was totally down with women and men being given fair treatment in their society, and being gay is so normalized it's never commented on- but that's just it. It isn't commented on.

Zevran's personal quest was about him choosing whether or not to (violently) cut ties with the assassination guild that owned him his whole life. Dorian's personal quest is about how his mean ol' parents tried to pray blood magic the gay away, and that's no good!

 

[Tepes Thot]

A question I've been thinking about is: was Origins also woke? There are loads of current DA fans who say that all the SJW shit in Inquisition was there all along and that Origins was feminist, progressive-liberal, LGBTABCDEFG, and so on, and if you look at a lot of the old Origins developers' social media presences, most of them are very openly in the leftist camp. I don't remember anything in Origins that seemed aggressively woke to me, but maybe I'm forgetting something. I've seen some people bitching that it was a sexist and racist game too, though.

No, because woke is a cultish adherence to progressivism, not just a presentation of left leaning ideas. DAO was a presentation of left leaning ideas.

DA 2 and forward are expensive cult pamphlets. I just finished DA 2 for the first time and Jesus Christ was it a look into what was to come. It’s night and day with DAO. Anders alone is the problem with modern writing, that’s not even touching everyone else. It was Mad TV levels of parody, except they were serious.

 

[BiggerChungus]

It isn't commented on.

Speaking of Zevran, I think one of Morrigan's voice lines is pretty insulted and dismissive of you if you romance them both and choose him, specifically her being "surprised that you'd choose a man over me", with emphasis on man, so that's still a slightly more believable line for the type of setting Dragon Age was or was supposed to be than what we got with later games, and it'd probably annoy a lot of woke fans if they heard it now.

 

[Mola Ram]

Speaking of Zevran, I think one of Morrigan's voice lines is pretty insulted and dismissive of you if you romance them both and choose him, specifically her being "surprised that you'd choose a man over me", with emphasis on man, so that's still a slightly more believable line for the type of setting Dragon Age was or was supposed to be than what we got with later games, and it'd probably annoy a lot of woke fans if they heard it now.

Alistair and Morrigan are both completely straight, with Morrigan reacting with borderline disgust when Leliana compliments her beauty and muses about how to help her dress up to highlight it. I suspect that all four romances in DA2 being bisexual had as much to do with the truncated development time as it did appealing to BioWare's ever-more-depraved fanbase -- it reminded me of how Skyrim made every potential spouse bisexual simply because what else were they supposed to do with over two dozen of them? The only one who seems to have a bit more depth to him is Anders (of course), because given his relationship with Karl when you're playing a male Hawke, he seems to have been intended to be primarily homosexual (a departure from his character as introduced in Awakening, but then that's pretty much his whole deal).

 

[Kane Lives]

Origins (and 2) could be viewed as woke, but to me "woke" implies some really annoying, performative aspect to the values being pushed. Yeah, Origins was totally down with women and men being given fair treatment in their society, and being gay is so normalized it's never commented on- but that's just it. It isn't commented on.

Zevran's personal quest was about him choosing whether or not to (violently) cut ties with the assassination guild that owned him his whole life. Dorian's personal quest is about how his mean ol' parents tried to pray blood magic the gay away, and that's no good!

Plus, you know, Origins still had the lingering edginess and idealism of the late 00s, where every game had a representative lady with tits and ass out; Morrigan being barely better dressed than a tribal elf.

 

[Mola Ram]

Plus, you know, Origins still had the lingering edginess and idealism of the late 00s, where every game had a representative lady with tits and ass out; Morrigan being barely better dressed than a tribal elf.

Don't forget the desire demons and brothels, both of which had disappeared by DAI.

 

[Agarathium1066]

Don't forget the desire demons and brothels, both of which had disappeared by DAI.

Didn't they have one of the DA2 characters in a brothel and you could fuck them? Don't remember if 2 had brothels but you'd think a hornball like that would've hung around one.

 

[Mola Ram]

Didn't they have one of the DA2 characters in a brothel and you could fuck them? Don't remember if 2 had brothels but you'd think a hornball like that would've hung around one.

DA2 not only had a brothel, The Blooming Rose, it had a brothel whose signage was so obviously a vagina that Georgia O'Keeffe told them to cool down a little.

 

[Agarathium1066]

DA2 not only had a brothel, The Blooming Rose, it had a brothel whose signage was so obviously a vagina that Georgia O'Keeffe told them to cool down a little.

View attachment 4466217

Subtle as a brick through a window. Was pretty sure DA2 basically LIVED in 2000s edgeville so hearing it had no brothels surprised me. DA: I can't rightly recall. You were pretty heavily restricted on places to go that didn't look like a boilerplate MMO zone.

 

[Mola Ram]

Subtle as a brick through a window. Was pretty sure DA2 basically LIVED in 2000s edgeville so hearing it had no brothels surprised me. DA: I can't rightly recall. You were pretty heavily restricted on places to go that didn't look like a boilerplate MMO zone.

DAI had no brothels whatsoever, outside of some mentioned in codex entries and I think some banters. This despite being able to visit Val Royeaux, capital of the most sexually decadent nation in Thedas. Of course, Val Royeaux was a disappointment on multiple levels, but the lack of a brothel anywhere after having relatively prominent ones in the prior two games felt as weirdly puritanical as the lack of desire demons.

 

[Logoden]

Of course, Val Royeaux was a disappointment on multiple levels, but the lack of a brothel anywhere after having relatively prominent ones in the prior two games felt as weirdly puritanical as the lack of desire demons.

Yap, puritanism as well as "sanetized" and "cleaned up". For those devs it was probably a case of "Lets not show any type of bad representation of sexuality". Another exemple would be rape/sexual violation. In Origins it was used during the City-elf prologue(a good motivation for revenge) and during the Bownammar zone(an horrible show). Now if Inquisition had events depicting such gruesome topics then I have no memory of it, and if it did then it probably was not as strongly as in Origins.

There was something dirty, brown, crass, gruesome, trash and edgy about Origins. We also lost the capacity to be one the worse kind of assholes on Thedas a bit more with each new title.
From this :

To this :

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

There will be, I agree. Bioware has been in a death spiral for awhile now, since Anthem. My only disagreement really, is the timing.

I can 100% believe Bioware is in all hands on deck mode for DA4, and that is usually enough for most corporate stooges to stay their hand. You can be sure that whoever the head of Bioware is is currently promising the moon to the VP in charge, irregardless of the actual situation on the ground. Remember, suits don't look at Twitter; they listen to whatever the middle managers are saying.

So, the most likely timeline is that Bioware is given enough time at least to push out this turd (no delays permitted). Once it bombs hard, and there exist hard evidence that this is yet another failure (sales figure, negative press etc), then the real axing shall begin in earnest.

I would say that the death spiral started with Mass Effect: Andromeda. Games before that following EA purchasing BioWare had flaws, but they apparantly weren't enough to stop the momentum and popularity BioWare had. They had a servicable level of writing, voice acting, and weren't broken beyond repair, even if their RPG identity was slowly being stripped away and the steadily-creeping SJWisms. Dragon Age: Inquisition was their most successful title; it also was the beginning of the end for them.

ME:A, at least in my opinion, was the point where the quality of the writing, performance issues (from using the Frostbite engine), support for the games, care for the story, gameplay, etc. went through the floor. Support for the game ended not long after the game was released, and the same went with Anthem. Superfans such as GamerMD83 (who married a BioWare employee) started to get bored with the company and stopped covering their games.

And now that all the real veterans of BioWare have left, you now have a bunch of SJWs running the company who can't lead for shit. The only person I have any faith in when it comes to BioWare is Mary DeMarle, since she was lead writer for Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and I have no idea if she's enough to save the company.

Just end BioWare. They had a good run, but in the end, we have GreedFall and its upcoming prequel, as well as other RPGs.

 

[Mola Ram]

I would say that the death spiral started with Mass Effect: Andromeda. Games before that following EA purchasing BioWare had flaws, but they apparantly weren't enough to stop the momentum and popularity BioWare had. They had a servicable level of writing, voice acting, and weren't broken beyond repair, even if their RPG identity was slowly being stripped away and the steadily-creeping SJWisms. Dragon Age: Inquisition was their most successful title; it also was the beginning of the end for them.

I don't think you can gloss over the debacle surrounding ME3. While I personally find the game satisfying, there are objectively a ton of problems with it, and the hostility toward an outraged fanbase was a precursor to the deliberately confrontational tone so many franchises take these days, BioWare most definitely included. I'd actually peg the beginning a year earlier to DA2, which is one of the biggest declines in quality in a sequel I've ever seen -- time hasn't been kind to it, and the only people who champion it now are fanboys and contrarians. It's been a long, tedious decline, but BioWare had a long way to fall, with moments of the old brilliance like the ME remaster and even some elements of DAI still shining through. I'd agree that Andromeda and Anthem marked the point where the rot was too profound to ignore any longer.

 

[ZMOT]

Not gonna lie, a third person hack-and-slash/rpg where you can swap between a few other characters on the fly while all of you run around in an open world beating the shit out of things sounds good, but after Andromedia and Anthem (I haven't played that one but I didn't hear a single praise for it) I don't know if they can pull it off in a satisfying manner.

just play genshin then?
as for anthem, it was a mess at release, bombed, got fixed, at which point no one cared anymore. if they had it released in the state they shut it down, they would have a great foundation and plenty of players - but bioware had to be bioware, and now it's gone. got 180 hours in it and still kinda miss it, no game scratches the "ironman, but with actual guns" itch.

Probably the only part of Bioware that’ll remain after EA gets sick of their shit is whoever’s keeping The Old Republic running. It’s apparently still bringing in enough money to justify keeping the lights on, at this point I have to assume it’s the only profit Bioware sees…

bioware austin, iirc DA4 is done by edmonton (the OG bioware).

 

[Waifuchu]

I don't think you can gloss over the debacle surrounding ME3. While I personally find the game satisfying, there are objectively a ton of problems with it, and the hostility toward an outraged fanbase was a precursor to the deliberately confrontational tone so many franchises take these days, BioWare most definitely included. I'd actually peg the beginning a year earlier to DA2, which is one of the biggest declines in quality in a sequel I've ever seen -- time hasn't been kind to it, and the only people who champion it now are fanboys and contrarians. It's been a long, tedious decline, but BioWare had a long way to fall, with moments of the old brilliance like the ME remaster and even some elements of DAI still shining through. I'd agree that Andromeda and Anthem marked the point where the rot was too profound to ignore any longer.

I actually am one of those weirdos who really likes DA2, but I'll freely admit that it's entirely because it happens to tick a lot of my personal niche interests in a narrative.

2 is undoubtedly a big step down from Origins, but at least 2's problems are because EA told Bioware "Hey, Origins did really well. Make a sequel. You have a year." instead of some retarded need to make sure the game is on the right side of history!

 

[Tepes Thot]

I actually am one of those weirdos who really likes DA2, but I'll freely admit that it's entirely because it happens to tick a lot of my personal niche interests in a narrative.

2 is undoubtedly a big step down from Origins, but at least 2's problems are because EA told Bioware "Hey, Origins did really well. Make a sequel. You have a year." instead of some retarded need to make sure the game is on the right side of history!

That explains the gameplay issues, like the shameless reusing of hallway dungeons (that fucking mansion dungeon…), but the story was definitely the precursor to current year bullshit.

Anders the Activist - He literally has nothing else to say but “mage rights!”. I accidentally selected him for an outing, got halfway through hightown “Aveline I noticed your watch hasn’t been very mage friendly!” and turned right the fuck back to re-select.

Merril - The ADD pixie dream girl character they love. We saw her again with PeeBee and Sera. You’ve also seen her in Outworld, almost every female character in the Borderlands series, Life is Strange protags, every Marvel and DC comic female character has become her thanks to autistic lesbian writers infecting the industry, etc.
“I’m quirky because I don’t shut the fuck up or get basic social cues, but you looooove me xD.”

Isabella - The exhausting psychopath..I mean strong woman who totally would not have gotten killed for theft or insult in some bar fight by now.

Aveline, Fenris, and Dwarf Dude (I forget his name at the moment), are the only ones who kind of felt like characters. Sebastian was just kinda there, but at least he wasn’t insufferable.

That’s due to more than rushed writing. Rushed writing would probably leave us with weaker DAO repeats, which would’ve been better by comparison.

 

[Mega Black]

Just end BioWare. They had a good run, but in the end, we have GreedFall and its upcoming prequel, as well as other RPGs.

They practically already have. Like most companies bought by major publishers shortly following massive success the old talent got cycled out both within and without EA. Andromeda was made by a completely different arm of EA that was essentially just given a Bioware name for marketing purposes, they brought in Casey Hudson after fumbling the ball for like five years which appears to be his major role in the company now.

Bioware just exists to be a fancy, gay, label EA can slap on mediocre rpg products. They're more of an ESG write off company than anything else anymore.

I actually am one of those weirdos who really likes DA2, but I'll freely admit that it's entirely because it happens to tick a lot of my personal niche interests in a narrative.

I really like the ideas of a personal and much smaller narrative that DA2 was shooting for. Just becoming a champion of one location and making choices that could change this one major city forever is a really solid concept that isn't just a bog standard chosen one narrative. Shame the game sucks fat dick. I also really like it's retardedly edgy art direction.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

A question I've been thinking about is: was Origins also woke? There are loads of current DA fans who say that all the SJW shit in Inquisition was there all along and that Origins was feminist, progressive-liberal, LGBTABCDEFG, and so on, and if you look at a lot of the old Origins developers' social media presences, most of them are very openly in the leftist camp. I don't remember anything in Origins that seemed aggressively woke to me, but maybe I'm forgetting something. I've seen some people bitching that it was a sexist and racist game too, though.

"Woke" wasn't really a thing in 2009. It was instead doing the cringe "this ain't your momma's fantasy" tits-and-dragons grimdark shit of the period that saw its fruition in Game of Thrones. The trailer, complete with Marilyn Manson song, has not aged well IMO.