The gatekeeping that must be done, for my daydreamed Doom community, starts with that: ZDoom ain't Doom anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. There's plenty of amazing projects which have been created for it, and I'm not taking that for granted. But call it UZCoom or something else.
Between that and Troonworld making maps, I'd say I'd rather find old ones that are more interesting than whatever the hell Troonworld is making nowadays.
I played Pinochestein 3D for about two levels and they both sucked. Checked the rest of them using idclev cheat and it's more of the same. Enemy spam, lack of ammo and overall, just a miserable experience. No rhyme or reason, just shit thrown inside of it.
By what criteria you decided so I dunno. Okay. Then dsda-doom is not doom anymoaaaaar. Becuase modurn mbf21 soyce ports grow on bloat that turn them into something that ZDoom is able for 20+ years, but not compatible with ZDoom
By what criteria you decided so I dunno. Okay. Then dsda-doom is not doom anymoaaaaar. Becuase modurn mbf21 soyce ports grow on bloat that turn them into something that ZDoom is able for 20+ years, but not compatible with ZDoom
Seems an emotional bad faith take, but I'll bite. The criteria for "hurr durr Vanilla" is how the game engine behaves. Given the same input, no matter how long the recording, you get the same output.
From the UZDoom source code:
C++:
if (ReadInt32 (demo_p) != FORM_ID) // g_game.cpp:2992
{
const char *eek = "Cannot play non-" GAMENAME " demos.\n";
...
if (singledemo) I_Error ("%s", eek);
}
If a recording is a .lmp, error out. That's ZDoom's solution to accuracy; we don't validate it anymore.
Lee Killough is the guy who wrote the original MBF. He left this long comment explaining how he rewrote MBF's friction code in order to retain compatibility, or "stay Vanilla".
UZDoom's playsim/p_spec.cpp:
C++:
// killough 8/28/98:
//
// Completely redid code, which did not need thinkers, and which put a heavy
// drag on CPU. Friction is now a property of sectors, NOT objects inside
// them. All objects, not just players, are affected by it, if they touch
// the sector's floor. Code simpler and faster, only calling on friction
// calculations when an object needs friction considered, instead of doing
// friction calculations on every sector during every tic.
//
// Although this -might- ruin Boom demo sync involving friction, it's the only
// way, short of code explosion, to fix the original design bug. Fixing the
// design bug in Boom's original friction code, while maintaining demo sync
// under every conceivable circumstance, would double or triple code size, and
// would require maintenance of buggy legacy code which is only useful for old
// demos. Doom demos, which are more important IMO, are not affected by this
// change.
Right beneath that? [RH] - Randy Heit the tranny.
C++:
// [RH] On the other hand, since I've given up on trying to maintain demo
// sync between versions, these considerations aren't a big deal to me.
Not a big deal to ZDoom, the whole compatibility thing, by its own admission.
How do the Chocolate, Boom (PrBoom, dsda), or MBF (Nugget, Woof) ports all agree that they're playing the "same Doom", or the 2026 expanded version of "Vanilla Doom"? You play a .lmp recording in it, which is a series of inputs the player makes on every tic, and you get the same output. They all share the same random-number table, the one that came with Doom. They all use the same integer-based physics. They all store things in the same hard-coded tables.
How is MBF21 still "Vanilla Doom"? It can be implemented, to spec, in any engine, without breaking compatibility of the original game engine.
This doesn't seem anything unusual except the OP and the last poster. Sort of similar names, join date is 20 days apart, two underscores in the name... you guys think it's the same person? Which does scream to me but it could be just a buddy with the same Noelle obsession.
What do you guys think? If true, I find it funny that a dead forum full of trashposting has morons making multiple accounts just to talk to themselves.
Also I found at least three accounts with Noelle avatar. Definitely troons since Deltarune fanbase is troon hive.
Only vanilla mode uses that table. Non vanilla mode uses a new rng (boom ports use the same, zdoom uses some other iirc). From what I heard, only Skulltag cares about old random behavior and has a compat option for it. I haven't tried it in practice myself. I'm lazy to.
About demos. Backwards compatibility is a nice option, not an obligation. If you play dsda recorded mbf21 demos in nugget, they're likely to desync. They're not 100% foolproof. There also are demos that you can't play back in some prboom+ and crispy versions cuz they introduced new demo headers that required exact version of a prboom+ or crispy they were recorded in, and they tell you to fuck off, and also don't let the game start. You can't be sure if dsda or woof or nugget are compatible between themselves. For example when dsda 0.27 introduced ambient sounds which are audible on complevel 2 maps, it introduced a demo desync, which lived up to 0.27.4 iirc. Also i can't stand that slippery movement in boom ports
Only vanilla mode uses that table. Non vanilla mode uses a new rng (boom ports use the same, zdoom uses some other iirc). From what I heard, only Skulltag cares about old random behavior and has a compat option for it. I haven't tried it in practice myself. I'm lazy to.
About demos. Backwards compatibility is a nice option, not an obligation. If you play dsda recorded mbf21 demos in nugget, they're likely to desync. They're not 100% foolproof. There also are demos that you can't play back in some prboom+ and crispy versions cuz they introduced new demo headers that required exact version of a prboom+ or crispy they were recorded in, and they tell you to fuck off, and also don't let the game start. You can't be sure if dsda or woof or nugget are compatible between themselves. For example when dsda 0.27 introduced ambient sounds which are audible on complevel 2 maps, it introduced a demo desync, which lived up to 0.27.4 iirc. Also i can't stand that slippery movement in boom ports
Yea "vanilla mode" is complevel 4 and below, that's where all Vanilla ports agree and use the original table. Above, it's Killough's Boom RNG. ZDoom, my original point which you harped on, doesn't give a fuck and makes up its own rules, can change it tomorrow, and disregard everything. Why do all the other ports seem to care but ZDoom doesn't? Are they kind of their own thing? Separate from the rest? That was my original point.
DSDA fixing a bug which introduced desync at certain complevels isn't proof that compatibility doesn't matter; it's proof that compatibility is a priority for that port and a code change had an unintended bug that took a few versions to be noticed. That happens.
I get it. I just personally have no real problem with ZDoom being that different. If I were to fork a source port, I'd choose prboom 2.5.1.4 or 2.5.1.3, which hasn't been touched by QOL guy Fabian
You're not even wrong. ZDoom and its successors contain a lot of Hexen-derived code and fully support Heretic and Hexen. The games also use the Hexen map format internally for classic WAD-format maps.
I had to google what Noelle is, and it was instant regret. How can anyone above 10 watch this shit? And Troonworld is full of fags in their 30s and 40s, who are fans of this, or similar garbage. So many weirdos in the Doom community, it's scary.
I had to google what Noelle is, and it was instant regret. How can anyone above 10 watch this shit? And Troonworld is full of fags in their 30s and 40s, who are fans of this, or similar garbage. So many weirdos in the Doom community, it's scary.
Wanna know something really fucked up? This is the character that you supposedly RAPE in the cutscene in Deltarune. The scene caused so much backlash from troons (they probably liked it deep down) that Toby immediately censored it by removing deflowering petals. lol
I think it's safe to assume Toby got infected with troon aids, sadly.
For those who don't follow Time of Doom, we're currently having a discussion about MtPain's hypocrisy and Troonworld pandering in the latest season of Dean of Doom, where he clearly has a bad time reviewing gigantic slaughter maps, even admitting to disliking them, and yet still doesn't give lower grades and A and B, while sugarcoating every word of criticism and kissing every ass under the Troonworld umbrella...
And this is my little contribution to his youtube comment section.
For those who don't follow Time of Doom, we're currently having a discussion about MtPain's hypocrisy and Troonworld pandering in the latest season of Dean of Doom, where he clearly has a bad time reviewing gigantic slaughter maps, even admitting to disliking them, and yet still doesn't give lower grades and A and B, while sugarcoating every word of criticism and kissing every ass under the Troonworld umbrella...
And this is my little contribution to his youtube comment section.
I usually don't follow any of these popular YouDoomers but the tears of MtPain's defenders are delicious. Really shows you who Troonworld's supporters are especially the guy who claims he didn't read your paragraphs yet is so butthurt from the truth.
The only MtPain27 videos that are kind of watchable for me are the ones where he looks at official maps or really old community stuff, where he actually allows himself to be negative and a bit more down to earth. These things aren't artistic masterpieces that were intended to make you reach a next plane of existence after all, they are levels in a video game.
But on all the recent content, where the authors might be watching, he has to tread on eggshells and talk enormously pretentious so he doesn't offend some delicate flower. Validation, validation above everything.
If you constantly praise a thing, wax poetic about it for over an hour, and give everything an A+, then your opinion becomes rather boring. Why even watch the video when I already know what he's gonna say?
"Freed From The Real is a biblical rumble beyond comprehension! So monotonic, obsessive and depressive, that it cannot be ignored. It makes you step outside yourself...Grade A, Difficulty X+"
For archival purposes I shall repost the screenshots here @Zacharin X , lest imgur be a niggur and delete those screenshots.
One of the Necromantic Thirst mappers, or judging by how he comes across, the project lead himself. Also, "we're the French Community, not Doomworld" - Oh yeah? Is that why all them are rotting on DW, while their French forum is a barren wasteland? It's like me saying, i'm not from Time of Doom, i'm the Bulgarian Doom Community, dude!
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