DOOM

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Doom 2016 vs. Doom Eternal...
2016 has purity over Eternal.
There is little that is extraneous or unneeded in 2016.
There isn't that much lore and it's not really necessary to understand the game, there is essentially no cutscenes or waiting around and platforming is kept to a minimum.
Everything is built around keeping you moving from combat arena to combat arena as efficiently as possible. Not much platforming or exploring unlike Eternal.
The combat itself is also very pure and uncomplicated.
Eternal on the other hand aims for escalation and expansion over 2016.
Just look at all the stuff that Doom Slayer uses this go around.
His usual arsenal of weapons.
Crucible blade.
BFG and Unmakyr.
Grenade and Ice Bomb.
Flame Belch and Blood Punch.
Chainsaw.
Dash and double Jump.
Shoulder launcher.
Glory Kills for health, set enemies on fire for armor and chainsaw for ammo.
At first it can honestly be overwhelming and feel cluttered with how much there is to keep track of.
But once you get used to it all, the sheer devastation you dish out with all those tools is cathartic and engaging in the extreme.
Lore has been greatly expanded and can be somewhat required to understand the story and background. It is really good lore though in my opinion.
More cutscenes and story beats fit with the theme of one upping 2016 at the cost of purity.
And as mentioned there is a lot more platforming and exploring along with general pace breaking and down time.
The difficulty has increased by a lot but I prefer that to be honest.
In 2016 as long as you made sure to upgrade your suit and arsenal you were basically untouchable by the last third of the game.
In Eternal even when fully upgraded and kitted out the game stays challenging but the great part is you still feel unstoppable despite the challenge.
I think 2016 is the more consistent and pure experience but the sum of the parts for Eternal overcomes the flaws and pushes it over the top for me.
 
There is still a large group of people playing multiplayer Doom 2. I still play Skull Tag multiplayer with my internet friends on a monthly basis.
 
I've been very slowly getting through this. I guess because the gameplay is so intense I need longer breaks. I've only completed the first 3 Slayer Gates and beat the first Marauder. Great boss fight.

I like the variety of the combat. I'd rather have options then use the same 2-3 guns and do the same thing over and over.
 
BrunoMattei said:
I like the variety of the combat. I'd rather have options then use the same 2-3 guns and do the same thing over and over.
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As much as I love Doom 2016, one of its biggest problems was how lopsided the weapons were. By the end, the Super Shotgun and the Gauss cannon are so stupidly overpowered that you don't really need to use anything else. Eternal's weapons are far more balanced; you have more of a reason to use all your weapons instead of just the Super Shotgun. The regular shotgun for example has the sticky bombs that are just as effective in taking out weapons as the precision bolt, and the rocket launcher isn't so underpowered, making it a great substitute for the Super Shotgun.
 
100%'d the game on my first run-through on ultraviolence for some reason.

I agree, Doom 2016 is more pure than Doom Eternal and Doom Eternal has some essential upgrades to Doom 2016. Overall, it was really fun, but there's some changes I'd like to see if they made a sequel:

1. Make it linear. The hub, while cool in concept, doesn't really add much to the game. It isn't like Mario where you can progress by playing the levels in any order, you beat a level, go to the hub, then go to the next level. Almost everything it does could be done better with a menu.

2. Get rid of some of useless cutscenes. I don't need to see an unskippable cutscene of the slayer picking up a story item if he's already picked the same iten up before. Same with the sentinel batteries. You have to put 2 in at a time to unlock stuff, meaning you have to watch the Slayer put the battery in manually every time. They also show a cutscene of a door opening at the end of a fight or obstruction being destroyed. Doom 2016 didn't do this and it worked fine.

3. The chainsaw needs more information. In Doom 2016, if you try to chainsaw a bigger demon, but don't have the fuel, it shows the number of fuel you have, and how much you need under your cursor. It doesn't do that in eternal.

4. The non blood-punch would do damage against small enemies. Doom 2016 let you punch zombies once to stagger them as a cheap and easy way to get a glory kill without wasting ammo, or accidentally killing them in the heat of battle. I counted 14 punches against the weakest zombie enemy before it meleed me to death. It didn't stagger once.

5. The bosses could be better. The bosses in Eternal aren't as good as 2016, especially the last 2. Also, a couple of them don't let you damage them unless they open themselves up as they're attacking, which is annoying.

6. The player should be able to choose where in the level they'd start from when replaying a completed mission. It's annoying missing a collectable cuz of a glitch or a challenge because of unclear instructions, and having to replay the whole level to get it.

7. I'd bring back 2016's super shotgun. That mastery challenge where it only used 1 round per fire was great and I barely used the meat hook.

8. I'd get rid of the 1 ups and or change them into overcharges that give you beyond max health and armor. New Doom's combat is about flow. If I die, it breaks my flow, and even if I have another life, I most likely die again because of it.

9. I'd improve the weapon changing. It just feels off on mouse and keyboard, like there's mouse acceleration when using the weapon wheel or something. I'd also make it so when you used the mouse wheel or number keys, it showed a little list of the weapons somewhere on the screen so you can know which weapons you'll select next. It's hard remembering a list of 8 guns in the heat of battle.

10. I'd make the enemy weak points an unlockable for finding their hidden toys, not something you get when you first encounter them. Telling me that I can instantly stagger a cacodemon by shooting them with a grenade when I first encounter them makes them a non threat for the entire game.

The core combat itself is an improvement over Doom in a lot of ways, the dashing feels amazing, the flamethrower meant I was consistently getting armor, and I didn't mind the platforming. Overall, I still really enjoyed the game, despite the flaws I mentioned.
 
Takayuki Yagami said:
It isn’t good?
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I like it, but it's very gimmicky and a big stomp if the Slayer is any good, or a total slaughter if the Demons are. There's no middle ground or anything.

Just slap a bunch if Night Sentinels together in a horde mode, base meta progression that, and maybe integrate those invasions in. Would fit the game much better and have some legs.
 
Jack Awful said:
5. The bosses could be better. The bosses in Eternal aren't as good as 2016, especially the last 2. Also, a couple of them don't let you damage them unless they open themselves up as they're attacking, which is annoying.
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I like most of your suggestions, but I would argue that the boss battles are a marked improvement in Eternal, especially since (if you count Doom Hunter and Marauder) you can now use all the fingers on your hand to count them. Most of them have been given properly-designed arenas as opposed to empty rooms (Marauder and Gladiator being the exceptions), allowing more options to retreat when things get hairy, and I like how countering forces you to pay closer attention to visual and audio cues. Also, in Doom 2016 my enjoyment of boss fights never exceeded the battle with the Cyberdemon, whereas the bugfuck insanity that is the Icon of Sin felt like the only way such a frenetic game like Eternal could have ended.
 
I really loved the Marauder fight and for the most part it solves the problem with bosses in FPS.

Make it a big bad? The player can just circle strafe it to death.

Make it so you have to do a thing and then you can kill them ala Quake 1 or Bioshock 1? Easy as piss once you know what to do.

Make it a wall texture ala Doom 2? Kind of boring. Not even touching on mouse look making the fight trivial.
 
Pinot Pierrot said:
I like most of your suggestions, but I would argue that the boss battles are a marked improvement in Eternal, especially since (if you count Doom Hunter and Marauder) you can now use all the fingers on your hand to count them. Most of them have been given properly-designed arenas as opposed to empty rooms (Marauder and Gladiator being the exceptions), allowing more options to retreat when things get hairy, and I like how countering forces you to pay closer attention to visual and audio cues. Also, in Doom 2016 my enjoyment of boss fights never exceeded the battle with the Cyberdemon, whereas the bugfuck insanity that is the Icon of Sin felt like the only way such a frenetic game like Eternal could have ended.
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I liked the concept of the icon of sin, but his arena was kinda shit. You have to keep watching him to see what his next attack is going to be, but the arena has a bunch of spaces with walls high enough to block your view. There's also some weird movement based glitches where, if you land on a moving object you can't stand on (like the icon of sin's fist), it bounces you away, often leading you to fall off the level. I also had trouble immediately identifying which parts of him i had to destroy during the 2nd half because of how hectic it got. I managed to beat him by randomly firing rockets until I managed to hit the final part. I still don't know which part I had left when I beat it.
 
Jack Awful said:
I liked the concept of the icon of sin, but his arena was kinda shit. You have to keep watching him to see what his next attack is going to be, but the arena has a bunch of spaces with walls high enough to block your view. There's also some weird movement based glitches where, if you land on a moving object you can't stand on (like the icon of sin's fist), it bounces you away, often leading you to fall off the level. I also had trouble immediately identifying which parts of him i had to destroy during the 2nd half because of how hectic it got. I managed to beat him by randomly firing rockets until I managed to hit the final part. I still don't know which part I had left when I beat it.
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Damaging a body part highlights it in red, which admittedly is kind of hard to identify in tense situations since the Icon of Sin's entire body is red in the first place. I actually got stuck on the final body part and ran in circles like a headless chicken for a good couple of minutes, but eventually a stray bullet hit his shoulder and gave me a direction to point my ballista shots.
 
Pinot Pierrot said:
Damaging a body part highlights it in red, which admittedly is kind of hard to identify in tense situations since the Icon of Sin's entire body is red in the first place. I actually got stuck on the final body part and ran in circles like a headless chicken for a good couple of minutes, but eventually a stray bullet hit his shoulder and gave me a direction to point my ballista shots.
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Showing a silhouette of all the body parts fading out once you destroy it woulda helped.
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I found the hook on the Super Shotgun pretty good against Prowlers and other enemies who move too much and can be one hit killed with a shot to the face.

Also the Blood Punch wasn't very good because it didn't guarantee a kill, so a lot of time I threw myself into an enemy to punch only for it to survive and tear me a new asshole. And even more times I wasted it on a mook because the execution didn't trigger.

As for the bosses, I wasn't really that impressed. Besides the mini-bosses that were legitimate fun and engaging fights, the bosses were pretty basic:
The gladiator was forgettable, I don't remember anything about the fight other than it waiting to shoot it and the second phase getting quickly eviscerated by missiles.

The Kham Makyr was too easy due to very telegraphed attacks, the drones supplying full health and ammo refills and having her shield broken by two clusters of missiles.

Icon of Sin is just boring. A lot of his moves just threw me around without clear indication of where was their hit zones, but besides that there is more than enough BFG ammo to wipe out the more dangerous enemies in the first phase with the others being easily dispatched with the sword. Most of the fight was just waiting for a zombie to spawn to get machine gun ammo (which seemed to be the only weapon type to do noticable damage). The second phase is the same without the dangerous spawns, with me being more stressed about dying to an unseen enemy and restarting from the first phase.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Also the Blood Punch wasn't very good because it didn't guarantee a kill, so a lot of time I threw myself into an enemy to punch only for it to survive and tear me a new asshole. And even more times I wasted it on a mook because the execution didn't trigger.
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Blood Punch eventually allows you to punch all the weak points off a demon, like cyber manubus can be reduced to just a big ole fat man with one blood punch, pinky's can be outright killed with a well timed blood punch while its charging at you.

I had to utilize every mechanic in the game to clear nightmare. a indirect punch from the final boss can drop you from full health and shield to 5 health.
 
I used the flaming meat hook on the Whiplashes quite often.

I didn't care for the last two boss fights, myself, but that may have been my fault for playing several hours straight, getting tired, and hitting an "I don't care, just END IT" mood. Then again, I rarely like FPS boss fights. Luckily the game's strength was in all the fights with regular enemies.
 
I just finished the cultist base master level and had a great time. Minimal exploration, challenging fights.

The perfect game would be Doom 2016's structure with Doom Eternal's combat and enemy variety.

They're inevitably gonna make a new Doom game cuz of the amount of money Eternal's making, so let's hope they listen to fan feedback.

Plus, the single player DLCs which will hopefully include a free arcade mode.
 
Jack Awful said:
Plus, the single player DLCs which will hopefully include a free arcade mode.
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You know what would make for a badass DLC campaign? One where you play as Hayden armed with the demonic Crucible as he leads the resistance against the demons. For one thing it would show how he got into the state we see him in Eternal and for another it would be really fucking cool to see him actually use the Crucible. There was so much teasing with him holding that Crucible but we ultimately never get to see him use it in any meaningful way.
 
Duncan Hills Coffee said:
You know what would make for a badass DLC campaign? One where you play as Hayden armed with the demonic Crucible as he leads the resistance against the demons. For one thing it would show how he got into the state we see him in Eternal and for another it would be really fucking cool to see him actually use the Crucible. There was so much teasing with him holding that Crucible but we ultimately never get to see him use it in any meaningful way.
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Plus
it's implied he's the Makyr who gave the Doom Slayer his powers (they share a voice actor and lines) and that VEGA is the essence of The Father (god).
 
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