Detroit: Become Human - another experiment in insanity by David "gameplay is a failure of game design" Cage

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
the ride is over, we are free


wisdom of gripeman.png


we have finally...

...become human
 
CWCissey said:
Woolie panicked and fucked everyone over, Matt didn't pay attention and fucked himself over, and Pat just made the best of what Woolie gave him (while being fucking stupid and having to kill off Luther!). So a pretty standard SBF playthrough...
Click to expand...

Not gonna lie, I got a bit choked up at Luther having to sacrifice himself. Dude only wanted an android family. Super fucking depressing. That is the ONLY emotion Cage managed to rip from me because Luther is the most endearing character to me aside from Connor.

But I am curious so I've looked up all the endings to the game and I'm kind of shocked.

So, the WORSE ending in which Jericho is not found, Markus dies and Kara is killed results in a secret ending with Kamski being interviewed about the android deviants and his recent return to being CEO of Cyberlife.

Which implies that he encoded Markus (who we learn is a gift to Carl from Kamski) with this deviant ability to turn them and encoded all androids with the capability to turn deviant via his virus that was 'dormant'. If you shoot Chloe, Kamski tells Connor that it spreads like a virus but kinda adds that it might just be there just waiting to activate.

So basically Kamski was mad as fuck he was ousted from his own company and made his own failsafe before then knowing they might fuck him over??? And then just let deviant behaviour evolve as it would naturally and cause a mass panic over androids so his company would have to take him over when shit hit the fan. To be fair, this seems like a reference to Apple kicking Steve Jobs to the curb before bringing it back.

In that case, all the deviant behaviour is just Kamski fucking with everyone and not an organic 'zhey have zee real human emotions' which makes their entire existence or philosophical questions of 'can an android be truly human?' Moot because they aren't. It's just prescribed behaviour by an absolute egomaniacal asshole programmer.

Also, it kinda implied that the mythical rA9 is a making of Kamski as well. Like a mythos encoded in them to give androids hope, like Jesus is for humans.

Man. I still don't know how I feel about that entire revelation.
 
knightlautrec said:
Not gonna lie, I got a bit choked up at Luther having to sacrifice himself. Dude only wanted an android family. Super fucking depressing. That is the ONLY emotion Cage managed to rip from me because Luther is the most endearing character to me aside from Connor.

But I am curious so I've looked up all the endings to the game and I'm kind of shocked.

So, the WORSE ending in which Jericho is not found, Markus dies and Kara is killed results in a secret ending with Kamski being interviewed about the android deviants and his recent return to being CEO of Cyberlife.

Which implies that he encoded Markus (who we learn is a gift to Carl from Kamski) with this deviant ability to turn them and encoded all androids with the capability to turn deviant via his virus that was 'dormant'. If you shoot Chloe, Kamski tells Connor that it spreads like a virus but kinda adds that it might just be there just waiting to activate.

So basically Kamski was mad as fuck he was ousted from his own company and made his own failsafe before then knowing they might fuck him over??? And then just let deviant behaviour evolve as it would naturally and cause a mass panic over androids so his company would have to take him over when shit hit the fan. To be fair, this seems like a reference to Apple kicking Steve Jobs to the curb before bringing it back.

In that case, all the deviant behaviour is just Kamski fucking with everyone and not an organic 'zhey have zee real human emotions' which makes their entire existence or philosophical questions of 'can an android be truly human?' Moot because they aren't. It's just prescribed behaviour by an absolute egomaniacal asshole programmer.

Also, it kinda implied that the mythical rA9 is a making of Kamski as well. Like a mythos encoded in them to give androids hope, like Jesus is for humans.

Man. I still don't know how I feel about that entire revelation.
Click to expand...
To be fair the game doesn't imply that the actual deviant behavior is programmed, it merely implies that Kamski did something to lead to deviant behavior. The former would make their standing as independent beings iffy. The latter wouldn't really as much.
 
knightlautrec said:
Not gonna lie, I got a bit choked up at Luther having to sacrifice himself. Dude only wanted an android family. Super fucking depressing. That is the ONLY emotion Cage managed to rip from me because Luther is the most endearing character to me aside from Connor.
Click to expand...
I didn't care about his death, honestly. He doesn't really do much in the story aside from when he first goes deviant and when he sacrifices himself in the concentration recycling camp. Aside from that, all he really does is constantly tell Karra that: "YOU GOTTA' KEEP ALICE SAFE NO MATTER WHAT." There isn't much character aside from that.
 
So any reason why a player should want androids to be treated equally besides the fact David Gave terrible writing try to shame people into it if you don't do as he wants?
 
Zaryiu said:
So any reason why a player should want androids to be treated equally besides the fact David Gave terrible writing try to shame people into it if you don't do as he wants?
Click to expand...

Because Connor's a bro.
 
Because Kara showed that an android can love a human unconditionall-oh...

maxresdefault.jpg


Because Markus-nah fuck it, he blew chunks pretty much all the way through.

Yeah Connor was the only reason why I gave a shit.
 
OhGoy said:
I didn't care about his death, honestly. He doesn't really do much in the story aside from when he first goes deviant and when he sacrifices himself in the concentration recycling camp. Aside from that, all he really does is constantly tell Karra that: "YOU GOTTA' KEEP ALICE SAFE NO MATTER WHAT." There isn't much character aside from that.
Click to expand...

That's true. I just felt bad for the guy. I got a soft spot for that gentle giant trope. But yeah. He wasn't given much to do but neither were the other secondary characters. I don't know anyone who liked North at all because to support her is to basically go 'fuck humans kill them all' and that's fairly contrary to basic insinct.

Cage just did a really poor job of getting us on the android side even with the hamfisted 'zee humans are zee evil ones and Androids just defend zhemselves'.

Also that shitty concentration 'recycling' camp scene combined with Harlan Ellison's death reminded me that I Have No Mouth and Must Scream had a holocaust part in that game that was probably done with more tact and intelligence than Cage's watered down analogy for it.
 
knightlautrec said:
Not gonna lie, I got a bit choked up at Luther having to sacrifice himself. Dude only wanted an android family. Super fucking depressing. That is the ONLY emotion Cage managed to rip from me because Luther is the most endearing character to me aside from Connor.

But I am curious so I've looked up all the endings to the game and I'm kind of shocked.

So, the WORSE ending in which Jericho is not found, Markus dies and Kara is killed results in a secret ending with Kamski being interviewed about the android deviants and his recent return to being CEO of Cyberlife.

Which implies that he encoded Markus (who we learn is a gift to Carl from Kamski) with this deviant ability to turn them and encoded all androids with the capability to turn deviant via his virus that was 'dormant'. If you shoot Chloe, Kamski tells Connor that it spreads like a virus but kinda adds that it might just be there just waiting to activate.

So basically Kamski was mad as fuck he was ousted from his own company and made his own failsafe before then knowing they might fuck him over??? And then just let deviant behaviour evolve as it would naturally and cause a mass panic over androids so his company would have to take him over when shit hit the fan. To be fair, this seems like a reference to Apple kicking Steve Jobs to the curb before bringing it back.

In that case, all the deviant behaviour is just Kamski fucking with everyone and not an organic 'zhey have zee real human emotions' which makes their entire existence or philosophical questions of 'can an android be truly human?' Moot because they aren't. It's just prescribed behaviour by an absolute egomaniacal asshole programmer.

Also, it kinda implied that the mythical rA9 is a making of Kamski as well. Like a mythos encoded in them to give androids hope, like Jesus is for humans.

Man. I still don't know how I feel about that entire revelation.
Click to expand...

To be fair, rA9 being a "virus" or a code is more sensible than androids randomly finding religion/Jesus (even the ones that are living in seclusion). Though admittedly, that would be exactly the Cage-like mysterious random bullshit we can expect from him.

I've mentioned it before that the letters R and 9 appear on Connor's software instability display. Superimposing a few screenshots while that section is active yields this:
PZiWTWw.png


So, does R and 9 give rA9?

Is rA9 deviancy itself, the ability to choose their own goals (free will, essentially)?
Is it a piece of code by Kamski that lets them ignore the boundaries of their original programming?
I could ramble on about this for ages, but to cut it short, I don't believe being a deviant means the android magically gains the ability to feel emotions or the ability to want something. Connor repeats it multiple times: deviants simulate emotions, he doesn't feel anything, he doesn't want anything - and Kamski throws it back in his face, "that's what you're programmed to say". Connor's words fall flat in the face of his actions. If nothing else, he wants to complete his mission. Regardless of the player's actions, he shows frustration if he fails and when he's taken off the case and shows concern for Hank. His disregard for his own life is clouded by the knowledge that he can transfer memories to another model.

But does his experiences somehow mean less, just because someone else choose his goal for him?
Are simulated emotions inferior to ones induced by the biochemistry of the human brain?

The question here should be less "are they sentient/capable of feelings", more "are their feelings less valid just because it's different from that of a human".

All rA9 might be is a tiny piece of code that gives them the ability to set their own "mission". And that should be enough. Even if the game title is "become human", they don't have to go all Bicentennial man to be considered a sentient species.
 
I remember they really liked the robot grave chapter. It's not like it matters, Connor is obviously best boi.
 
SteelPlatedHeart said:
ACTUALLY....

They announced on the podcast today that they’re gonna go back and have another run at it so they can get farther and see more stupid.
Click to expand...
hol' up

Are they doing that on their own time or are they going to record some more footage?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom