DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Gotta give it to Superman, even with shitty marketing, Fantastic Four still got smoked. Can’t tell if that was WB scoring a goal or Marvel booting the ball into their own net.

Anecdotally I don’t know a single person who saw Fantastic Four?

Marvel is also dealing with its series of flops. It came after Captain Falcon and the Thunderbolts. They don't have the goodwill either.

Really, Jurassic Park 7 beat both of them handedly.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Issue I take with James Gunn is that his slate is pretty pathetic even if Superman is a good base. Not enough heavy hitters have projects yet and too much focus on no names.

He's in the same position Alan Moore often was. When you take a C-list character, change them beyond recognition, and write them well, people will call you a genius. Even Alan Moore admitted he enjoyed writing C-listers because there were fewer expectations. While fans of the originals get upset, their numbers are so small that it ultimately doesn't matter.

The real trouble is that DC’s A-list characters are the ones who need help after years of severe neglect. Yet, Gunn still acts as if he's at Marvel, where he had to make the few characters they hadn't sold the rights to work. He isn't the underdog, but he's still acting like one.

Uplifting a C-lister and rekindling interest in an A-lister are two very different things, and DC desperately needs the latter.

I personally view DC Superhero Girls (Faust version) as her best incarnation as she has a pretty fun personality for what amounts to a Rainbowdash copy.

I personally lean toward the DCAU version of the character as superior. She was a brawler with anger issues, but she was also very feminine . Unlike the Faust version or the cringe-worthy CW adaptation, there was no lame attempt to make her "cooler" or a Superman clone. She doesn't need to be; she's interesting on her own.

The fact that her dynamic with Batgirl in the DCAU was never explored beyond a single episode is one of the greatest wasted potentials I've ever seen in animation.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Just watched Superman, it’s a solid movie. Say what you want about James Gunn but he does get comic book fantasy. It’s an ADHD Paced movie but that’s what was needed to get the new DC on the same pace as Marvel. The comedy in the movie feels deserved, it’s not Whedon quipshit.

It was certainly better than Superman v Batman the first major capeshit movie I actually fell asleep to. I’m not missing the Snyderverse.

Minor detail I like that Jimmy Olsen can score poontang in this continuity. Makes him a far less lame character.

 

[Eventide]

View attachment 7782223

I'm sure this has been discussed before on this thread: but was the evil fake country ever proven to be a stand in for Israel? Did Gunn or anyone in the production ever come out and say it? Or is it just random Redditor speculation? 'cause I got more of a generic Soviet bloc shithole countries vibe from the 2 waring countries in the movie, than anything else. Is there some obvious hints that I'm missing? (I can't say I know much about Netanyahu).

 

[MrJokerRager]

I'm sure this has been discussed before on this thread: but was the evil fake country ever proven to be a stand in for Israel? Did Gunn or anyone in the production ever come out and say it? Or is it just random Redditor speculation? 'cause I got more of a generic Soviet bloc shithole countries vibe from the 2 waring countries in the movie, than anything else. Is there some obvious hints that I'm missing? (I can't say I know much about Netanyahu).

The people being bombed were brown or something.

And Ben Shapiro was mad at the movie.

 

[Eventide]

The people being bombed were brown or something.

And Ben Shapiro was mad at the movie.

Ben Shapiro gets his panties in a knot over everything, so that's not particularly solid evidence.

I guess it will ultimately remain a silly Rorschach test.

 

[Kulee Baba]

I'm sure this has been discussed before on this thread: but was the evil fake country ever proven to be a stand in for Israel? Did Gunn or anyone in the production ever come out and say it? Or is it just random Redditor speculation? 'cause I got more of a generic Soviet bloc shithole countries vibe from the 2 waring countries in the movie, than anything else. Is there some obvious hints that I'm missing? (I can't say I know much about Netanyahu).

It's not based on Israel at least not anything with the Israel-Gaza War, I'm just citing Wikipedia which I trust because wikipedia is pretty reliable with anything pop culture:

Production design, costume design, and casting began in April 2023.[78][120] Production designer Beth Mickle and costume designer Judianna Makovsky returned from The Suicide Squad and Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023).[121][122] Filming was set to begin in January 2024.[78] Gunn said the character Jimmy Olsen would appear.[123] He did not intend for the film to be a comedy and hoped it would differ from previous Superman films while respecting what came before.[78] Gunn completed the first draft of the script at the end of April. Production was not expected to be impacted by the 2023 Writers Guild of America strike when it began in early May.[124]

The first draft being done months before October 7 2023 means they would not vastly change the entire fucking film to make it a political commentary. It's simply more likely it's inspired by Russia-Ukraine. James Gunn who is an outspoken liberal was thinking more about "Drumpf and Putin" when writing up Lex Luthor and the President of Boravia

The people being bombed were brown or something.

And Ben Shapiro was mad at the movie.

It's far more in line with Czechoslovakia lol.

 

[Captain Syrup]

And Ben Shapiro was mad at the movie.

He stubs his toe and just starts pacing like, "Ah, yes, the anti-Semitic floorboards"

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I personally lean toward the DCAU version of the character as superior. She was a brawler with anger issues, but she was also very feminine . Unlike the Faust version or the cringe-worthy CW adaptation, there was no lame attempt to make her "cooler" or a Superman clone. She doesn't need to be; she's interesting on her own.

For some reason I never got into the DCAU versions of the sidekick characters. They always felt like they had a lack of presence for one reason or another, only exception oddly being Tim Drake. Like I completely forget what Dick Grayson did or anything about him in BTAS, while I can pretty clearly define his role in the DCAUM, Young Justice or especially Teen Titans.

In terms of Supergirl, I automatically either go to either Faust or Injustice 2. Faust uses the Rainbow Dash template, admittedly, but it makes Supergirl stand out amongst the cast of 6 and I like her dynamics with Babs and the other girls. Helps she was clearly the writers' favorite of the cast and got a ton of episodes to show off her lazy tomboy personality. Meanwhile Injustice 2 works for a more grounded Supergirl, she's cute and I like how she grows to have some sweet relationships with the cast, particularly Batman.

The fact that her dynamic with Batgirl in the DCAU was never explored beyond a single episode is one of the greatest wasted potentials I've ever seen in animation.

Kind of a big point why I like the above, they let Supergirl have a lot more fun dynamics.

cringe-worthy CW adaptation

I like the actress, and she is enjoyable when paired with the Flash. Funny to see that pairing get more mainstreamed in content due to the show, as DCSHG, Injustice 2 and the Flash film pair them together now.

 

[strumpets exeunt]

Gotta give it to Superman, even with shitty marketing, Fantastic Four still got smoked. Can’t tell if that was WB scoring a goal or Marvel booting the ball into their own net.

I feel like we're all familiar with the MCU to know that the Fantastic Four movie was going to be Sue Storm being a huge badass bitch for two hours while Reed, Ben, and Johnny were... there. I didn't see the movie, myself, but from what I heard Reed was physically hurt by... being stretched? Johnny was written so out of character that they let him, the team's chucklefuck, decipher an entire alien language? And Ben didn't have a single "This Man... This Monster!" moment? Oh, and Sue apparently delivered a baby while also consistently Worf'ing Galactus with her powers? Gripping stuff.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Speaking of side characters, Gunn "Justice Gang" kinda works but stick the landing looking like a fuzzy 2020ies memory of the Justice League during the 1990ies. When DC wasn't trying to no fun allowed, completely serious with every title they were doing preDeath of Superman run.

 

[Mystery Spy]

To play devil's advocate, Zack Snyder's Man of Steel had some goodwill to prop up his movie.

Specifically, he was building on the excellent reception of the Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan's name was attached as a producer, even if behind the scenes he wanted to move on from superheroes to focus on his own artistic films. Nolan's name alone was enough for people to give it a chance. People were open about DC being the mature alternative to Marvel. And Honestly, if Znyder had kep Nolan's quality it would've been a success. But you all know how it all ended.

In contrast, James Gunn's Superman was released during a time when capeshit movies aren't selling as well. That said, while Gunn's Superman wasn't the success they needed, but it isn't a bomb either. 2-3 years ago it would've easily reached a billion along Fantastic Four.

I'm sure this has been discussed before on this thread: but was the evil fake country ever proven to be a stand in for Israel? Did Gunn or anyone in the production ever come out and say it? Or is it just random Redditor speculation? 'cause I got more of a generic Soviet bloc shithole countries vibe from the 2 waring countries in the movie, than anything else. Is there some obvious hints that I'm missing? (I can't say I know much about Netanyahu).

The biggest Israel parallel in the latest Superman movie is that the invading country, Boravia, is described as a "huge ally to America," and the people of the invaded country, Jarhanpur, seem vaguely Middle Eastern.

The "ally" aspect is a strong indicator of an Israel stand-in, as few countries fit this description in real life.Boravia, the antagonistic invading country, also has a star in its flag. Guess which other country, often considered a U.S. ally, also has a star in its flag? Additionally, the prime minister of Boravia bears a resemblance to Netanyahu—not exact, but close enough. Like the kind of guy you would hire for a SNL sketch for a parody (admittedly this is the weakest argument).

However, as others have noted, Gunn likely conceived the invasion idea before the #FreePalestine thing became huge.

Though he could have easily changed the "ally" line, or the flag design late in production, he has some benefit of doubt. Personally, I believe Boravia is a Star Trek-style allegory for Israel, but distant enough for Gunn to plausibly deny it.

 

[Calandrino]

To play devil's advocate, Zack Snyder's Man of Steel had some goodwill to prop up his movie.

Specifically, he was building on the excellent reception of the Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan's name was attached as a producer, even if behind the scenes he wanted to move on from superheroes to focus on his own artistic films. Nolan's name alone was enough for people to give it a chance. People were open about DC being the mature alternative to Marvel. And Honestly, if Znyder had kep Nolan's quality it would've been a success. But you all know how it all ended.

Hottest of hot takes, but: I think Man of Steel does better by the main character than Batman Begins does. For example: leaving Ra's to die legit bugged me. The only moral dilemma with Zod is why he didn't kill him faster. People apparently just like that kind of dour "realistic" tone for a Batman movie but won't accept it for Superman. Still, Cavill basically felt like Superman to me, if kind of a moody one having a really rotten day, but Bale just felt like some random dude (in Batman Begins, anyway). The weirdest scenes in both movies come from Goyer's apparent brain bug about superheroes killing and/or letting people die.

 

[Overly Serious]

I am also going to defend Snyder's Man of Steel. One of the most popular criticisms of it at the time was his leaving his dad to die in the tornado. Baldly stated like that it's bad but I rewatched that scene and you know what? You just saw the tornado pick up multiple cars and throw them through the air like matchbox toys. His father is standing there for an instant because he's in the eye of the storm - everything around him is being wrecked. It really should be a blink-and-he's-gone moment but Snyder choose to portray it more slowly to portray the emotional impact and the silent communication between Jonathan Kent and Clark. Which is the sort of movie he wants to make.

Clark at this point in his life couldn't fly, didn't know it was possible for him to do so. The reason he's not with his dad is because he was carrying a small child into the underpass when his dad ran back. He's also keeping his mum safe there at the same time as she almost runs back in until he stops her. I don't really know what else people could have wanted from Zack Snyder in a situation where Clark cannot save his dad without revealing himself publicly and in which his dad has a chance to tell him not to. Maybe Zack Snyder could have added someone in the background yelling: "It's impossible. Nobody could walk into that and live and if they did why I'd think they were some sort of super man" for added effect. Maybe that would satisfy people.

I might say that Henry Cavill has a knack for subtle humour and Snyder could have given him a bit more space to show that off and lighten things. I might say that movie could be a smidge less blue-tinted all the time. But I feel this criticism is very unfair.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Man of Steel is way better for a lot of reasons, despite its faults, starting with the fact Henry Cavil looks buff enough to play Supes (instead of having twiggy arms), his character IS NOT constantly humilliated in one way or another, and the movie doesn't have Marvel humor bits that are cringe and outdated by now. Mr. T(errific, kek) was a second-rate Cyborg with the same function.
GunnSupes is kinda like the soy equivalent of Superman with an infamous director to boot.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Critical drinker(He trying to soften the impact of Superman flopping) and Midnight Edge are doing worse jobs at damage controlling Superman being released on digital in just 35 days than even James Gunn.

 

[Sam Losco]

Just finished watching Superman. James Gunn should be executed.

 

[clickbait]

Just finished watching Superman. James Gunn should be executed.

The post credit sequence shows that Gunn got the John Cena mindset. He wrote superman for John Cena and molded David into that character.

 

[MrJokerRager]

 

[Overly Serious]

Man of Steel is way better for a lot of reasons, despite its faults, starting with the fact Henry Cavil looks buff enough to play Supes (instead of having twiggy arms), his character IS NOT constantly humilliated in one way or another, and the movie doesn't have Marvel humor bits that are cringe and outdated by now. Mr. T(errific, kek) was a second-rate Cyborg with the same function.
GunnSupes is kinda like the soy equivalent of Superman with an infamous director to boot.

I liked Mr. Terrific well enough. Even if in terms of function he overlaps with Cyborg, I thought the actor brought a nice pedantry to the role. Worse by far was Hawkgirl. Case in point:

RWjc6dl0iEaBwqOx.mp4

Pretty much everything is wrong with her. Lets start with the most superficial - stature. The actress is tiny. She's more Budgie Girl than Hawk Girl. The comics and animated version are all statuesque and most definitely athletic. They have presence. This actress doesn't look the part in any way. Also, once again the red head has been erased from a comic book movie. Who's got the meme - we've one to add.

The acting? No fucking dignity or reason to respect her. Her character is almost entirely defined by saying she doesn't like Guy Gardner's "Justice Gang" name and saying "I'm not superman" as she murders someone at the end of the movie. So... she's a homicidal budgerigar. That's attractive. And lets touch on that - James Gunn trying to have his cake and eat it by having Superman have morals against killing but have the movie pull the double-whammy of condoning it by turning it into a comedy moment; and of ditching any hard questions by saying 'okay, when it's inconvenient for Superman to kill someone we'll just have someone else do it for him.'

Finally, when we see her relaxing on a sofa, she has no wings. The fuck - she has detachable wings? So they're... mechanical? Like a harness? Because bad CGI aside they look like they're supposed to be natural when she's flying around and covered in feathers. Maybe they shrink into her? It's just weird and one more thing in the movie that is rushed past.

There is evidence that the movie studios are trying to adapt. They've tried to step away from the dark serious tone of the Snyder movies because plainly they've been told that's bad. And they've tried to reign in the MCU-style quips because they've also been told (by everyone) that this has gotten very old. But they've no vision or direction of their own. It's purely reactive. They're like a car weaving wildly from one side of the road to the other. "Dark is bad!" someone yells and they yank the wheel to the left. "Market research says people love dogs..." and someone yanks the wheel in a different direction. Say what you like about Snyder but the man knew what he actually wanted and achieved it.

Now I'm going to make a really bold suggestion. Five years from now when there's distance between both movies, people are going to look back at Gunn's Superman movies and Snyder's and not only are they going to say Snyder's are superior, they're going to say the Snyder movies had the better Lex Luthor.

Yep. I went there.