DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Basic Blond Boy]

People say that, I don't necessarily agree. Maybe he's "fixing" them and turning them into his idea of what's cool, but I think he really does like the versions of the characters in his movies, and he at least isn't trying to mock them or take them down a notch (like Luke Skywalker suffered, among many others).

He does the 2000s Superhero film thing where the comics are lame and gay, while the movie is the more grounded gritty take for adults. MOS is very reminiscent of The Dark Knight and the FOX X-Men films which had to go in the weird "dark" direction otherwise how can audiences like it.

This became a problem of MOS as, amongst many other things, it was incredibly out-of-date in a post-Avengers world.

Now I'm going to make a really bold suggestion. Five years from now when there's distance between both movies, people are going to look back at Gunn's Superman movies and Snyder's and not only are they going to say Snyder's are superior, they're going to say the Snyder movies had the better Lex Luthor.

Ehh...

Snyder and Gunn are two sides of the same coin. They both represent products that came late to the party and represent the worst aspects of their era of comic book films. In the case of Snyder his films are the 2000s dark and serious cape flicks, but missing many of the good aspects.

Snyder has terrible pacing with multiple scenes dragged out way beyond what they should be. He also has terrible characterization and world building, which becomes increasingly more apparent the more one looks into his films. People will complain about the Kents being wrecked, yet Jor-El straight up leaves Krypton to die because them artificials are against nature. Like, the Kryptonians are apparently high tech enough to have completed space travel like it is an average Tuesday in the MOS universe, yet he doesn't use the already made ships to try and at least move a few off planet. Then, even after hating all the artificialness of Krypton, embeds his son with the thing that made that possible because ?

The whole setup is so much worse then say, STAS, which has a much smarter explanation as to how Krypton fell. The combination of Brainiac lying and Jor-El proposing a last-ditch crazy plan of using the Phantom Zone explains why the council doesn't do shit way better than whatever Snyder was cooking.

Same can be applied to BVS, so much of that film is a mess. Most blatant example is the random Lois subplot where she learns that apparently, Superman doesn't go to African countries with a glock and start lighting up the place. The Martha scene also got a lot of people confused. It sounds smart on paper as it is a nod to how both mothers have the same name, but in practice, it makes Batman look like a retard and is a pretty half-assed conclusion to get Batman to do a 180.

Had Snyder got his way further, Superman would have been even more tarnished with yet another Injustice plot and the Supercuck plotline.

If anything, Superman Returns is now starting to be the film that "maybe we were too harsh on." CW redeemed Brandon Routh and a bit of that world, and the leaked plans for a sequel bring together a much better Superman plotline than either Gunn or Snyder would have.

 

[Mystery Spy]

People say that, I don't necessarily agree. Maybe he's "fixing" them and turning them into his idea of what's cool, but I think he really does like the versions of the characters in his movies, and he at least isn't trying to mock them or take them down a notch (like Luke Skywalker suffered, among many others).

On that I have no doubt. He likes his versions. But I think, that’s his biggest issue not the darkness. But his lack of respect to the original characters.

For instance Constantine is a character I personally don’t care too much about. But if I had to make a movie about him I would still keep him being a cynical British drunkard magician with questionable methods. I wouldn’t change him to be an idealistic chipper puritanian priest. Fans would rightfully be pissed.

People like Gunn and Alan Moore known at least they can only get away with heavy changes when it’s obscure characters

When Snyder dislikes something he twists it to fits his liking, with little respect to the originals. I think this, much more than any sort of darkness, made him ill suited to lead DC.

Dc can be amazing when it’s dark. It has often been. Crisis on infinite earths for example killed billions . People still praise Nolan’s and Reeve’s movies . But twisting the characters to fit his tastes is what I think made him fail to catch to the MCU.

 

[GlupShitto]

The problem is that Superman is inherently lame and gay and needs to be made dark to be interesting. Snyder understood that. There's a reason Superman hasn't had a standard cartoon in nearly thirty years (not counting the LoSH cartoon since that's not the traditional Superman formula).

 

[Overly Serious]

f anything, Superman Returns is now starting to be the film that "maybe we were too harsh on."

Jesus Christ, no!

The problem isn't Brandon Routh. He's fine and frankly a very good Clark Kent more than he is Superman. The problem with the film is almost everything else. Set aside the Snyder vs. Gunn Lex debate, either of them is infinitely better than Kevin Spacey in that movie. He's terrible. And he makes his money by seducing old ladies like Zero Mostel in The Producers. But oddly Lex Luthor is less terrible than Superman himself. Pretty much the first thing that Clark does on returning to Earth and being greeted by his pet dog (not Krypto, just a dog on the Kent farm), is pick up the dog's ball and throw it into orbit. Poor fucking dog. He takes Lois, now a married woman with a young son, flying around the city like old times and uses his powers to spy on and eavesdrop on her and her husband and at the end of the movie, having found out her kid is actually his not her husband (her husband still believes it's his despite Lois knowing the truth all along), Superman lets himself into their home through the skylight to spend time with his kid without either of them knowing. When Lois is about to die, her husband gets in a light aircraft and flies to her rescue. Superman is too busy flying around the city. I mean it's the correct Trolley Problem answer but sucks to be Lois. Her actual husband is a better and more supportive husband than Superman ever was and IIRC, he actually left Earth without telling her why, though I could be wrong about that. Just ran out on her.

Oh, I hate almost everything about that movie except Brandon Routh. It's a terrible film never to be redeemed.

The problem is that Superman is inherently lame and gay and needs to be made dark to be interesting. Snyder understood that. There's a reason Superman hasn't had a standard cartoon in nearly thirty years (not counting the LoSH cartoon since that's not the traditional Superman formula).

You're saying Superman is a little old fashioned, lacks edge and relevance. That modern people want heroes who are a little more, shall we say, Elite?

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

But I think his movies were a commercial failure,

The Flash or Gunns Suicide Squad are commercial failures.

The whole thing feels workshopped to death and rushed

But also incredibly lazy. Superman the guy famous for his super senses doesn't: notice the Engineer when he flys right over her even though she's speaking loudly, wearing black in the snow and is right outside his secret base, look underneath Ultramans mask to realize he's a clone, or notice Luthor screaming his ass off in a transparent building five feet away.

Luthor being an idiot had been pretty much beaten to death in this thread but it cannot be overstated how stupid he is in this movie. He orchestrated the conflict to kill Superman and then when he finally has him right where he wants him decides to interrogate him for answers he already has (already hacked the fortress) and doesn't want (he's pretending to ask Superman questions about the situation made up...to get Superman in that position) then leaves him
Edit: with Metamorpho who can power him back up and whose baby is five feet away.

If anything, Superman Returns is now starting to be the film that "maybe we were too harsh on."

The actual cuck Superman who basically date rapes Lois, then abandons her and his sickly son? Then tries seducing her after being deadbeat for who knows how long eve though shes married? That Superman? At least Snyders Superman marries and has a kid consensually with his Lois.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

The actual cuck Superman who basically date rapes Lois, then abandons her and his sickly son? Then tries seducing her after being deadbeat for who knows how long eve though shes married? That Superman? At least Snyders Superman marries and has a kid consensually with his Lois.

Superman Returns is bad, really bad, but it actually seems to be getting a following. The sequels sounded more promising than the base, which I think makes people reconsider it. Honestly, wonder why they didn't go with the sequel ideas instead, all of them sound like x10 better than the original.

Also as stated before, The Crisis event brought that universe back and semi-redeemed it for people. Making Routh Kingdom Come Superman was definitely a good choice.

Also for @Overly Serious as well, should clarify that it shouldn't be, nor do I want it, but it seems to get the same weird dedicated fanbase as MOS. I know Nostalgia Critic mentioned people wanting him to reevaluate and it coming back into circulation as some misunderstood gem.

Also speaking of new Superman projects making the old look better, we apologize Krypto The Superdog, we didn't understand how good we had it in the 2000s:

The problem is that Superman is inherently lame and gay and needs to be made dark to be interesting. Snyder understood that. There's a reason Superman hasn't had a standard cartoon in nearly thirty years (not counting the LoSH cartoon since that's not the traditional Superman formula).

Superman is annoying in that the obvious answer is staring WB in the face and that is just to take from animation. Not even going to mention STAS for this as Dragon Ball and similar anime are arguably the Superman successor in how he should be handled. Hollywood is way too autistic about his powers needing to be scaled and him needing to have a lot of depth, when if Supes just went full Goku and made a colorful display, he would have the kids lining up.

Mentioned before in thread, but Michael Bay was arguably the best director for a Superman film as he would make the action intense and fun unlike literally any of Superman's previous directors: Singer didn't add any action, Snyder got caught up in his le realism to make it fun (long dragged out fights with little damage and too much emphasis on civilians caught in the destruction), and Gunn is too irony pilled to be cool.

This scene takes place on a boring ass farm, yet is more hype then any live action film has been (also, yes I know it is Supergirl, but point stands):

 

[Humble Architect]

The problem with Lex is they keep making him like IRL modern CEOs, who are all stunted, insecure little wretches.

Lex, sociopathic narcissist though he is, has a strength that these guys don’t. Lex would never pull an Amazon and try to get his bogged whore in a Bond film or allow his product to be in something like “War of the Worlds” 2025. He simply wouldn’t be like the modern corporate globo-homo, because he’d make it in the world and it would never be enough, he wouldn’t be consumed by his victory.

There would never be a news story about Lex’s billionaire yacht and his orgies, unless it’s Michael Bay Lex. Because it’s all base and he’s the apex. His hedonism is present but modern Lex is far removed from his initial Post-Crisis self who was a grotesque sex pest.

They keep basing him on real guys who lack the strength Lex has and it never works because of it.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

On that I have no doubt. He likes his versions. But I think, that’s his biggest issue not the darkness. But his lack of respect to the original characters.

For instance Constantine is a character I personally don’t care too much about. But if I had to make a movie about him I would still keep him being a cynical British drunkard magician with questionable methods. I wouldn’t change him to be an idealistic chipper puritanian priest. Fans would rightfully be pissed.

People like Gunn and Alan Moore known at least they can only get away with heavy changes when it’s obscure characters

When Snyder dislikes something he twists it to fits his liking, with little respect to the originals. I think this, much more than any sort of darkness, made him ill suited to lead DC.

Dc can be amazing when it’s dark. It has often been. Crisis on infinite earths for example killed billions . People still praise Nolan’s and Reeve’s movies . But twisting the characters to fit his tastes is what I think made him fail to catch to the MCU.

The thing that sums up Snyder the best, in my opinion, is how he handled the back alley fight in Watchmen.

In the comic, it is a sad and disturbing scene where two superheroes who've had to hang up their costumes due to the oppressive laws that were brought in to control costumed vigilantes take an opportunity to flex their old skills on a pack of urban predators with no training, powers or special skills, and they leave them bloodied and broken.

In Snyder's movie, it is a highly stylized spectacle, making the whole thing glamorous and glorified, removing all the feeling of shock and wrongness from the scene.

Snyder does not get subtlety and is incapable of understanding any viewpoint but his own.

 

[FatMebius]

Finally saw that new Superman. It was pretty meh. The CGI was bad during the fight scenes. The Israel/Palestine stuff was a bit too on the nose. The tone's sort of schizophrenic and it can't decide if it wants to be goofy Silver Age fun or if it's something with a bit more to say like "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?". The music was a bit too schmaltzy. The scene where Luthor shoots that pajeet (Who's literally only in the movie to try and score brownie points from the Snyder-loving Indians) sticks out for being way more graphic and violent than anything else in the movie.

I did like that Clark was sort of a "aw shucks" type this time around. Him saying "good gosh" during the giant monster fight was nice. FIllion as Gardner was pretty spot-on. Really channeling that JLI-era Guy. Hoult as Luthor was good too. I've got issues with how Lex was written in parts, but I think he himself was doing good with the material he was given.

Gunn just needs to stick to douchebag superheroes. A Justice League International movie would be more his speed. It felt like he kept riding the line between being sincere and being his usual self here.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Well, I guess LEGO DC is dead, we are back to only Batman.

I should be excited as it looks to be a new Arkham like, but God damn, I just want a full DC cast again.

 

[GlupShitto]

Well, I guess LEGO DC is dead, we are back to only Batman.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lx_6-9OrynY
I should be excited as it looks to be a new Arkham like, but go damn, I just want a full DC cast again.

Is it just me or was this painfully unfunny? Also their amalgamation of Batman designs once again resulted in the black washing of Gordon (and presumably Babs) and Catwoman (I know someone's gonna be like but muh Eartha Kitt so I just want to say that if you unironically derive even the slightest bit of joy from the shitty 60s Batman show, you're beyond pozzed and should kill yourself). I also hate the voice they chose for Batman, but it tracks with DC wanting to emasculate him, so it's unsurprising. But they should've opted to bring back Will Arnett or the fag from Brave and the Bold since those are the only decent comedy Batman VAs.

All in all, this is awful and if you buy it, you are a subhuman troglodyte who operates on the level of people who laugh their asses off watching the Costco Guys .

 

[Captain Syrup]

For some reason they keep trying to make Lex Luthor a nerd. .

Make him older and intimidating.

We’ve devolved, and naturally our villains have devolved along with us. Funny thing is Bill's rant about Superman is a dissection of Lex as much as Clark Kent.



At any rate, I'm a sucker for old guys like Steven Berkoff or Phillip Stone playing villains. 'Polite menace' is the best.

Regular people should be stressed when Luthor is in the room.

The way they handle Lex on-screen could be a lot sharper. Historically, though, he’s always been a pretentious twat and no one with a functioning brain buys his act. If those two ever meet in a movie, Joker will mog him.

 

[GlupShitto]

We’ve devolved, and naturally our villains have devolved along with us. Funny thing is Bill's rant about Superman is a dissection of Lex as much as Clark Kent.

View attachment 7804355

At any rate, I'm a sucker for old guys like Steven Berkoff or Phillip Stone playing villains. 'Polite menace' is the best.

The way they handle Lex on-screen could be a lot sharper. Historically, though, he’s always been a pretentious twat and no one with a functioning brain buys his act. If those two ever meet in a movie, Joker will mog him.

He'll just exploit the Joker's weakness and anally rape him.

 

[Kulee Baba]

I watched Peacemaker S1 again this week, gotta admit it I’m a James Gunnshill just like the great Moviebob. Me and James Gunn both like the same stupid shit, cheesy metal, wrestlers (Batista and Cena), Howard Stern - it’s really amusing to me that Ma & Pa Kent are based on the parents of Richard Christy.

I just really hope Peacemaker S2 isn’t bogged down with meta shit about alternate universes and continuities. I simply don’t care that the DC Movie Universe has been rebooted into Gunn’s playground. It’s more accurate to comics because whenever a writer leaves the series it more or less is rebooted into some sense.

The trailer to S2 has them mentioning other dimensions, hope that’s just a fake out.

 

[Calandrino]

The problem is that Superman is inherently lame and gay and needs to be made dark to be interesting.

I just want to say that if you unironically derive even the slightest bit of joy from the shitty 60s Batman show, you're beyond pozzed and should kill yourself

I don't know how to begin helping you

 

[GlupShitto]

As cringe and woke as the DCU is, I've gotta say Peacemaker was good.

 

[Kulee Baba]

As cringe and woke as the DCU is, I've gotta say Peacemaker was good.

Yeah I just watched episode 1. I should have known that by alternate dimensions they weren’t talking about the DCEU vs DCU.

Also laughed at the Thirty Seconds to Mars disses. People online will continue mocking James Gunn for the edgy pedo tweets, and I don’t know James Gunn but I believe James Gunn that Jared Leto is a piece of shit.

 

[soulgains]

I finally figured out what was so perverse and offensive to me about the new Superman movie: Clark is James Gunn's self insert. In the pursuit of "humanizing" Superman (he already has been, dozens of writers over several decades have been addressing this common complaint), he turned the character into a carbon copy of himself, right down to his musical tastes, love life, and possibly even aspects of his job/professional life.

I will say its laudable and almost cowish how personally invested he is in this whole cinematic universe, even picking fights with randos on Twitter defending himself and his films. It reminds of George Lucas, except with far less originality and talent. Actually no, that comparison is disrespectful. He's approaching Tommy Wiseau levels with the antics hes engaging in. Writing, directing, and literally appearing in your own work?

For me personally, the DCU is just part of a larger trend I've seen in media and society as a whole. Everything is being rehashed from my childhood. The movies, the politics, the wars, life in this country has never felt more unreal and phony. I took my daughter to see this movie, and maybe a 6 year old isn't the best barometer for opinion, but I think she said something really profound. That being, *this* Superman didn't make her feel safe. She said, "I don't think he would help anybody if he was here". If a child, who cant even fully articulate their thoughts yet, senses something deeply wrong with your movie, you've already failed. Its supposed to be a kids movie, not a movie for self righteous manchildren who relate to getting their shit kicked in constantly.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I finally figured out what was so perverse and offensive to me about the new Superman movie: Clark is James Gunn's self insert. In the pursuit of "humanizing" Superman (he already has been, dozens of writers over several decades have been addressing this common complaint), he turned the character into a carbon copy of himself, right down to his musical tastes, love life, and possibly even aspects of his job/professional life.

I will say its laudable and almost cowish how personally invested he is in this whole cinematic universe, even picking fights with randos on Twitter defending himself and his films. It reminds of George Lucas, except with far less originality and talent. Actually no, that comparison is disrespectful. He's approaching Tommy Wiseau levels with the antics hes engaging in. Writing, directing, and literally appearing in your own work?

For me personally, the DCU is just part of a larger trend I've seen in media and society as a whole. Everything is being rehashed from my childhood. The movies, the politics, the wars, life in this country has never felt more unreal and phony. I took my daughter to see this movie, and maybe a 6 year old isn't the best barometer for opinion, but I think she said something really profound. That being, *this* Superman didn't make her feel safe. She said, "I don't think he would help anybody if he was here". If a child, who cant even fully articulate their thoughts yet, senses something deeply wrong with your movie, you've already failed. Its supposed to be a kids movie, not a movie for self righteous manchildren who relate to getting their shit kicked in constantly.

"And that hurts my feelings! That's being human!"

-Superman somehow

While I've already pointed out that it's shit dialogue in general, I think your kid is picking up on his instability. Supes is supposed to be a positive male role model, but when he's a guy that admits he gets scared and freaks out over #SuperShit, he comes across as whiny and weak of spirit. That's why I consider this movie worse than Fantastic 4. F4: First Steps is aggressively mediocre, but it doesn't mess up characters all that badly. This movie gets characters wrong, and characters are the core of most stories. Stories can survive bad plots and bad themes if the characters are great, but I've never heard of good plots that survive intolerable characters.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

Gotta give it to Superman, even with shitty marketing, Fantastic Four still got smoked. Can’t tell if that was WB scoring a goal or Marvel booting the ball into their own net.

Anecdotally I don’t know a single person who saw Fantastic Four?

I did, simply because my dad was a fan of the comics and wanted to see it on a weekend.

Movie was fine, better than most of Marvel's output as of late. Same with Superman when it comes to DC. Much better than Fant4stic for sure.