DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Your Starter for 10]

You make Man of Steel and everyone says it's too action-packed

Literally no one said Man of Steel was "too action packed." They (rightfully) said it was retarded because of shit like empty cities, collateral damage, earthquake machines having no effect when off screen, Clark's dad wanting him to let a bus load of kids die, Clark letting his dad die, and Supes snapping Zod's neck.

Where did you learn to strawman? ON A FARM?!?!

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I complained about this trailer but I have no real solutions.

You make Superman Returns and everyone says it's boring and needs more action. You make Man of Steel and everyone says it's too action-packed. You reboot Superman again and you have to start in the middle because we've started from the beginning too many times.

At the end of the day does it really matter? When this doesn't make a billion dollars WB-one of the stupidest companies in America-will just panic and pull the plug anyway.

we need a hundred hours of tv of random thugs beating up Jimmy, kidnapping Lois (and maybe Jimmy too) and then said thugs get beaten up by Superman
it's a proven money printer!

 

[el bandito loco]

Literally no one said Man of Steel was "too action packed." They (rightfully) said it was retarded because of shit like empty cities, collateral damage, earthquake machines having no effect when off screen, Clark's dad wanting him to let a bus load of kids die, Clark letting his dad die, and Supes snapping Zod's neck.

Where did you learn to strawman? ON A FARM?!?!

All the critic reviews at the time were complaining about the 3rd act being all action alongside the disaster porn part of it.

although I've always thought the collateral damage and Zod's death were stupid complaints. I'd have liked to see Superman save more folks himself during the last act but the movie on its own terms in context he's just some guy who's never been in a fight getting his ass kicked in a city. and my prior biggest complaint about superhero movies like Avengers 1 is that a city would be getting destroyed and never felt like it. Man of Steel at least feels like 9/11 x 100 which a superhero fight would be like.

and killing Zod wasn't a big deal either, at least it was at the end of a physical fight and better than the comic where he flat out executes him and the other Kryptonians, or Superman 2 where he drops him powerless into a hole lol. It's not like they could put Zod in jail or something.

I don't love (or even really like) that movie, but I think those two arguments have always been the least of it's problems. Pa Kent and Superman himself being sort of a reluctant lost weirdo unsure of himself are much worse.

The fact people are dying and the city is getting fucked up and the fights are so large scale and he ends up killing zod (Although having it be because he's going to laser one family is stupid but funny) are probably the only pros of the movie. that and maybe the fact every single character are perfectly cast, although given nothing to do or the wrong things to do in Pa Kent's case. other than Lois who was a bad choice but given reasonable Lois Lane shit to do.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Not sure who the spiky woman in black is.

That is the Engineer, from Wildstorm. DC purchased Wildstorm in the late nineties. Not everything was ruined, but aside from some mild usage since (in a bid to appease Jim Lee, I suspect), they really haven't figured out how to implant properties from that universe into the wider DC universe the way they did for Captain Marvel, the Charleton characters, etc.

Original design:



I like the design for her reimagined origin in The Wild Storm, where she stole the technology and hadn't refined it until nearer the end of the miniseries(warning, art is odd sometimes):




Nearer the end of the series after some tinkering:

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I complained about this trailer but I have no real solutions.

You make Superman Returns and everyone says it's boring and needs more action. You make Man of Steel and everyone says it's too action-packed. You reboot Superman again and you have to start in the middle because we've started from the beginning too many times.

At the end of the day does it really matter? When this doesn't make a billion dollars WB-one of the stupidest companies in America-will just panic and pull the plug anyway.

Here is the answer, WB needs to stop trying to base every Batman and Superman film on the last one’s reception and get a director/writer who gives a shit about the characters.

Superman isn’t some enigma to make a good story for. We have a ton of Superman series and movies that give him serviceable to great outings that can be pulled from. STAS alone, while imperfect, is a great base to utilize.

Really, just make a basic Superman story but avoid Lex or Zod being the main villains and you are already creating a unique film for him. It isn’t even like he doesn’t have other villains: Bizarro, Metallo, Livewire, Parasite, Cyborg Superman, Toyman etc.. These aren’t even the heavy hitters like Darkseid, Doomsday or Brainiac.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

oh hai The Guardian Legend

 

[Cryborg 1987]

Literally no one said Man of Steel was "too action packed." They (rightfully) said it was retarded because of shit like empty cities, collateral damage, earthquake machines having no effect when off screen, Clark's dad wanting him to let a bus load of kids die, Clark letting his dad die, and Supes snapping Zod's neck.

Where did you learn to strawman? ON A FARM?!?!

The film was clearly action oriented in response to the previous Superman installment, what was considered a boring film. Even I have to admit I fight off a few Z's when watching it.

Here is the answer, WB needs to stop trying to base every Batman and Superman film on the last one’s reception and get a director/writer who gives a shit about the characters.

Superman isn’t some enigma to make a good story for. We have a ton of Superman series and movies that give him serviceable to great outings that can be pulled from. STAS alone, while imperfect, is a great base to utilize.

Really, just make a basic Superman story but avoid Lex or Zod being the main villains and you are already creating a unique film for him. It isn’t even like he doesn’t have other villains: Bizarro, Metallo, Livewire, Parasite, Cyborg Superman, Toyman etc.. These aren’t even the heavy hitters like Darkseid, Doomsday or Brainiac.

It's all simple in concept until it doesn't make money. I wouldn't accuse Tim Burton and co. of not giving a shit about the characters but the reality is Batman Returns made a lot less than Batman (not to mention complaints from stupid parents who can't read MPAA ratings) so Joel Schumacher was brought in. Same thing with Bryan Singer. The only thing he did wrong in WB's eyes was make a film that underperformed financially.

Nolan got a pass because there was a huge return on investment. If BvS made a billion dollars WB would've insisted Batman kill everyone he laid eyes on in Justice League.

 

[Overly Serious]

That is the Engineer, from Wildstorm. DC purchased Wildstorm in the late nineties. Not everything was ruined, but aside from some mild usage since (in a bid to appease Jim Lee, I suspect), they really haven't figured out how to implant properties from that universe into the wider DC universe the way they did for Captain Marvel, the Charleton characters, etc.

Original design:

View attachment 7363497 View attachment 7363569 View attachment 7363574

I prefer her look in the comics. You know, with this beating FF4 to release, they probably should have stuck with that third look then they could have beaten Marvel to the punch on naked silver flying woman character.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Here is the answer, WB needs to stop trying to base every Batman and Superman film on the last one’s reception and get a director/writer who gives a shit about the characters.

Superman isn’t some enigma to make a good story for. We have a ton of Superman series and movies that give him serviceable to great outings that can be pulled from. STAS alone, while imperfect, is a great base to utilize.

Really, just make a basic Superman story but avoid Lex or Zod being the main villains and you are already creating a unique film for him. It isn’t even like he doesn’t have other villains: Bizarro, Metallo, Livewire, Parasite, Cyborg Superman, Toyman etc.. These aren’t even the heavy hitters like Darkseid, Doomsday or Brainiac.

Give us a Teen Titans movie with an actual hottie.

 

[Humble Architect]

I prefer her look in the comics. You know, with this beating FF4 to release, they probably should have stuck with that third look then they could have beaten Marvel to the punch on naked silver flying woman character.

Engineer’s “silver naked chick” look actually went pretty well with Captain Atom’s awesome gold KC look. Her look is peak 90s, oversexualized, stylized and the classic “morphing arms” that ever new character had.

Come to think of it, Gunn’s Superman is coming off a lot more like Captain Atom; Armageddon instead of Superman’s ball game with the Elite. That was the comic where Captain Atom finally got to cut loose in a world of posers, killers and outright facist headcases

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

If we are going to talk about the Engineer, can I address the elephant in the room about how weird it is that Gunn is seemingly replacing Mercy Graves with her. With Gunn going all “comic accurate” (yes I know she originated in STAS, but still) you would think she would show up as Lex’s assistant, but I don’t believe we have seen her yet.

Even funnier is that Mercy technically has the same powers of the Engineer these days as comics started following the Young Justice cyborg with morphing powers version of her.

 

[Overly Serious]

If we are going to talk about the Engineer, can I address the elephant in the room about how weird it is that Gunn is seemingly replacing Mercy Graves with her. With Gunn going all “comic accurate” (yes I know she originated in STAS, but still) you would think she would show up as Lex’s assistant, but I don’t believe we have seen her yet.

Even funnier is that Mercy technically has the same powers of the Engineer these days as comics started following the Young Justice cyborg with morphing powers version of her.

With the context of her with Lex I actually thought she might be Mercy at first, but based on looks and powers I decided it was unlikely.

 

[BigBadBastich]

You make Superman Returns and everyone says it's boring and needs more action

Superman Returns is a weird movie because its trying to appeal to an era of nostalgia that predates it by almost 30 years, only elevated to modern era. People had gotten tired of the whimsical John Williams themed Superman and wanted something different. But...

You make Man of Steel and everyone says it's too action-packed.

I've never heard anyone complain it has too much action. The action itself is just really chaotic and unfocused and it gets a bit boring when all the kryptonians do is punch and kick. Sure it was different to see Superman finally do something cool, but Zack Snyder really isn't creative with the characters he adapts. The man is Michael Bay adjacent.

I know other people have said it, but we really need Superman villains who aren't a rich egotist with a green crystal or another kryptonian army who wants to genocide humanity. Do Parasite, Atomic Skull, Toyman, hell do fucking Lobo cause at least that would be fun.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

This movie is committing the same sin that a lot of major Superman stories do, which is shoving in other DC characters which takes the spotlight off the guy who is supposed to be the main attraction. And for fuck's sake stop aping the Reeves' movies. It's been almost half a century at this point, majority of the younger generation have no sentimental attachment to that shit to bank on nostalgia with and the older generations that do have mostly grown out of superhero films by now. For all the shit I give Snyder's Superman, at least his films were their own thing for the most part (though the fact that Man of Steel had Supes fighting not-Ursa and not-Non aside from Zod himself was cringe-worthy).

On a more positive note, Corenswet's not doing too shabby on the acting front though I'm getting the same vibes from him that I got from Routh.

 

[Newcomer 42]

I liked the Man of Steel movie, although the collateral damage was hilariously excessive, and the murder of Zodd was a bit much, I expected Supes to at least try putting his fingers into his eyes to blind him, aka escalating to maiming at worst, rather than jumping to murder immediately.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

With the context of her with Lex I actually thought she might be Mercy at first

I kinda wish it was. When I heard Gunn was doing an Authority movie, I held out hope that he was going to directly adapt the first 3 arcs from the first volume, set in an alternate universe. Imagine showing the wildstorm universe onscreen accurately, doing those books real justice, and then folding in a crossover later as you establish both the DC universe and WS, it could lead right into something as good as Captain Atom Armageddon. Love that book. Shoving Engineer onto Lexs' team feels off.

This movie is committing the same sin that a lot of major Superman stories do, which is shoving in other DC characters which takes the spotlight off the guy who is supposed to be the main attraction.

This is incorrect, sorry. Superman interacting with other characters in his world is one of the most interesting aspects of his character. Maybe they revere him, maybe they're annoyed by him, maybe they're intimidated, but I would expect they respect what he does and can do. He doesn't exist in a vacuum, and when I see any of the earlier comic movies from the 90s/2000s it becomes super obvious early into the movie that licensing is the reason we get a Spiderman movie without Ironman or Fantastic 4 or the New Warriors in background shots. Marvel New York is fucking soaked in superhumans, there's no reason you can't have background shots that aren't otherwise acknowledged where a flying man on fire or a guy swinging around in a red suit with tiny horns isn't appearing or referenced. Treat it like a goddamn easter egg if you want, or have full on scenes with them. Spidey shouldn't be able to webline around without bumping shoulders with another superhuman, hero or villain.

Superman lives in Metropolis. You know what else is usually in Metropolis? Cadmus, STARlabs, Black Lightning, Gangbuster, Guardian, Steel, the metal men, Booster Gold, etc. Again, you don't even need to have them in the movie as characters when you can have them in the background with Superman noticing them, seeing they have a situation in hand where he doesn't need to assist, and moving on.

And for fuck's sake stop aping the Reeves' movies. It's been almost half a century at this point, majority of the younger generation have no sentimental attachment to that shit to bank on nostalgia with and the older generations that do have mostly grown out of superhero films by now.

I disagree. It's a good movie, and there's no reason not to take inspiration from it.

I liked the Man of Steel movie, although the collateral damage was hilariously excessive, and the murder of Zodd was a bit much, I expected Supes to at least try putting his fingers into his eyes to blind him, aka escalating to maiming at worst, rather than jumping to murder immediately.

Same, at the time I was impressed by many of the visuals for the most part. It doesn't get Superman totally right, but it's almost there. Better writing with that great cinematography and inspired casting could've resulted in an amazing movie. As it is, it's... fun, mostly. The end is kinda depressing, and you still have to contend with the utterly retarded moments. You got Kevin Costner for Pa Kent, and that's what you did with him? What the fuck?

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Spidey shouldn't be able to webline around without bumping shoulders with another superhuman, hero or villain.

tbh I find Spidey is one of the few who works better mostly in a vacuum if we're focusing on the "power/responsibility" shtick
when he's part of a big fucking universe all of the sudden there's really very little that Spidey is specifically responsible for
there's a dozen capes in each borough to handle the common thugs, and he's not cosmic enough to do much when Galactus shows up

 

[el bandito loco]

I like Superman interacting with other heroes but the approach this movie is going for is the literal opposite of how I want to see that on screen, EVER. it's a bunch of heroes who don't respect him or think he sucks or whatever. I want the other heroes (even ones who kill or whatever) to still think of him as the best of them. and I don't want him palling around with a bunch of C list losers unless he's at the JLA headquarters or something. He should be hanging out with fuckin' Batman or someone else worth a fuck.

They don't even have to like him, just respect him and that's the opposite of what this shit is going to do until the end. And really, it's a waste of time. Why bother making a Superman movie where the movie is trying to make a point he's cool or deserves respect or some shit, just show him that way from the jump. fuck that. Every asshole writing Superman thinks they're a genius and cracking the code by having something to say on why he matters and it's just regurgitating shit that was done in the 1970s by Maggin and Bates and has had diminishing returns every time it's been done.

Superman is not fucking hard to do. He's both the heavy, the fuckin big gun you call in when somebody REALLY needs to get fucked up there's no reasoning with them, and the compassionate one you call in when somebody really just needs to talk to somebody. That's why the other heroes respect him. He does shit his own way, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks, and is the best at the superhero job for it.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

This is incorrect, sorry. Superman interacting with other characters in his world is one of the most interesting aspects of his character. Maybe they revere him, maybe they're annoyed by him, maybe they're intimidated, but I would expect they respect what he does and can do. He doesn't exist in a vacuum, and when I see any of the earlier comic movies from the 90s/2000s it becomes super obvious early into the movie that licensing is the reason we get a Spiderman movie without Ironman or Fantastic 4 or the New Warriors in background shots. Marvel New York is fucking soaked in superhumans, there's no reason you can't have background shots that aren't otherwise acknowledged where a flying man on fire or a guy swinging around in a red suit with tiny horns isn't appearing or referenced. Treat it like a goddamn easter egg if you want, or have full on scenes with them. Spidey shouldn't be able to webline around without bumping shoulders with another superhuman, hero or villain.

It's not interesting at all, it's just goddamn annoying especially when you're trying to tell a story about one character in particular. I don't give a fuck about obscure Wildstorm characters that haven't been relevant since the fucking 90s or Guy freakin' Gardner hogging the screen, I want to see Superman. And no, the reason why other Marvel characters don't show up in Spider-Man has little to do with licensing and everything to do with Raimi wanting to tell a story about Spider-Man specifically. And when the MCU did start the crossover crap, it was fun and exciting for about 3 movies before becoming dull.

Hell, take Elseworlds stories. You don't see Green Lantern or Wonder Woman showing up in Batman's Gotham By Gaslight or the Dracula trilogy but all three of them show up in Red Son.

 

[Humble Architect]

It's not interesting at all, it's just goddamn annoying especially when you're trying to tell a story about one character in particular. I don't give a fuck about obscure Wildstorm characters that haven't been relevant since the fucking 90s or Guy freakin' Gardner hogging the screen, I want to see Superman. And no, the reason why other Marvel characters don't show up in Spider-Man has little to do with licensing and everything to do with Raimi wanting to tell a story about Spider-Man specifically. And when the MCU did start the crossover crap, it was fun and exciting for about 3 movies before becoming dull.

Hell, take Elseworlds stories. You don't see Green Lantern or Wonder Woman showing up in Batman's Gotham By Gaslight or the Dracula trilogy but all three of them show up in Red Son.

To be fair, in Superman’s Elseworlds those two either become an enemy in Batman’s case or in Wondy’s case, his rebound girl. It’s not a good showing for either and usually makes Clark look better.