DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Basic Blond Boy]

I love Azrael and his counterparts in “Reign of the Supermen,” they perfectly showed why the modern replacements that the company would roll out twenty years later would never work.

I mean we all love Tyrone Fox Batman, Jon Superman, edgy Nu52 tron suit Supes and roidhead Absolute Batman, right?

Because Bruce Wayne is Batman and Clark Kent is Superman, they’re irreplaceable, despite what DC thinks, those two are the superheroes and it’s the soul of each character that makes them enduring. Superman was in his initial form, created after one of his creators was mugged and he just imagined a stranger who would’ve stepped in.

Agreed, however to counter this, Damian Wayne and Terry McGinnis are actually respectable replacements that both earned and make sense to do so. Batman handing down the cowl when the time comes to his son / sudo-son is an obvious conclusion.

Honestly Jon Kent easily could have worked as the new Superman had they not screwed his story so bad. The random age-up and new gay direction were what stopped him from being a good replacement. Had they slowly aged him up as Superboy under his father’s teachings and further built up his relationship with Damian as the new World’s Finest, he would have been fine.

 

[el bandito loco]

I would say Dick over Damien but he doesn't necessarily have to be Batman. Nightwing is enough for me personally to not even need the Bat mantle passed down, although I love Terry and Beyond I don't particularly want that kind of Neo Gotham to be the canonical future. Damian is fine but tbh over him being Batman 666 or whatever I'd rather he just became a new good guy Ra's al Ghul as an adult. Lead a new version of the league of assassin's, maybe actually rename them to the league of shadows because they're not murderers anymore under him. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Humble Architect]

Agreed, however to counter this, Damian Wayne and Terry McGinnis are actually respectable replacements that both earned and make sense to do so. Batman handing down the cowl when the time comes to his son / sudo-son is an obvious conclusion.

Honestly Jon Kent easily could have worked as the new Superman had they not screwed his story so bad. The random age-up and new gay direction were what stopped him from being a good replacement. Had they slowly aged him up as Superboy under his father’s teachings and further built up his relationship with Damian as the new World’s Finest, he would have been fine.

I actually liked the idea of Tim Drake and Conner Kent succeeding their mentors, I like the Superman/Batman stuff with them and the One Million tie-in. Before Tim and Conner’s complete ruination, they had a great friendship that carried on the spirit of the World’s Finest, but weren’t 1:1 copies.

A happy Batman and a stoic Superman who aren’t Bruce and Clark, which is more rich when you factor in Damian and Jon who would be their sidekicks and are spitting images of the originals.

Impossible now, Tim is ruined and Conner is pointless, I think him and Jon are the same age now? I don’t like the “families” for Superman or Batman, it shouldn’t go past three members.

 

[Newcomer 42]

How bad does it get?

The tone is all over the place, plus the writing and the idpolitic shit combine to make an horrible combo. First, AbsoBats has a living mom, single mother of course (after his father was killed by random bad guys offscreen), he's friends of OG Bats' rogue gallery as they're not bad here but that's excusable as an AU world. What's less excusable is how EVERY bad guy is the stereotype of rich, British white guy who hunts the poor for the lulz (they're all men to boot IIRC), and who are so evil they evil kill the "normal" mafioso criminals that OG Batman dealt with. All of them hunt down people using the cliché animal mask you've seen already in better works. Bats' suit seems taken out of the 90s, complete with random spikes here and there and using his Bat-symbol as the head of a hammer that he uses to kill hurt bad guys. He uses modified construction gear (because now Bruce is in "our side" since he's part of the working class, dood!) as weaponry as well as regular guns, using techniques that would be absolutely lethal (heh) but he "just" fatally wounds bad guys, even going as far as to stab one perp, then telling him that if he runs to the right fast enough, he will get to the hospital in time before he bleeds out... And then Bats says "maybe" since he deliberately lied to him (when did Bats become Frank Castle?). Barbara Gordon is now the annoying nigress with dumb hair cliché, while Jim Gordon is oddly enough is original white self.

Alfred is a private investigator here IIRC that Bats shoots him because Ald tried to detain him since he's a psycho mutilating people at random. Bats couldn't tolerate a random cop doing his job so he shoots him with "non-lethal ammo" to the face. That is, buckshot with the bat-symbol. Alfred should have died 3 times from the impact alone and the size of the pellets, it's absolutely ridiculous.

In short, it's like it was back with Azrael but he's pretending to be a hero when at least Az was obviously never meant to be a hero, and was aware form the start that he was a substitute for the real deal. Az was also using "just" sharp gauntlets, not guns and giant murder-hammers.

Other Absolute works also have shit writing and Ipol stuff but I haven't bothered with them, I had enough after skimming through ABats 1.

We finally get a full trailer tomorrow.

A trailer for a trailer! Yaay.
I thought this shit only happened with bad games.

. Superman was in his initial form, created after one of his creators was mugged and he just imagined a stranger who would’ve stepped in.

Wasn't the original idea "inspired"/borrowed from a novel that presented a much grittier hero immune to bullets?

which Batman actors often struggle with.

To be fair, if the writing sucks, the actor can't do much. See The Batman showing a Batman that doesn't know what a bat is, because he doesn't know Spanish. You know, the "smartest detective in the world".

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Edit - Trailer just dropped:

I would say Dick over Damien but he doesn't necessarily have to be Batman.

Would have said Dick, but his entire character trajectory is getting out of Batman’s shadow, arguably becoming a better man than him. Would feel like a disservice to stick him as the new Batman when stuff like the Titans shows he is a lot more than that. For Superman, would argue Kara is pretty much the same as Dick, theoretically should be the successor, but character-wise it makes little sense with how much she is usually trying to form her own identity.

although I love Terry and Beyond I don't particularly want that kind of Neo Gotham to be the canonical future. Damian is fine but tbh over him being Batman 666 or whatever I'd rather he just became a new good guy Ra's al Ghul as an adult. Lead a new version of the league of assassin's, maybe actually rename them to the league of shadows because they're not murderers anymore under him. But that's neither here nor there.

I guess a lot of it is more up to taste. Damien seems to be an either or of becoming Batman or reforming the League. And also, yes, Beyond can be an acquired taste. Kind of wish that Damien Batman game that was the in-between of Batman and Beyond released as it likely would have made for a more proper transition and really justified both of my points.

Impossible now, Tim is ruined and Conner is pointless, I think him and Jon are the same age now? I don’t like the “families” for Superman or Batman, it shouldn’t go past three members.

Would disagree with the family part. While I will admit they are overly bloated, I like many of the characters they create. A wider problem with the families is just DC mandating they constantly be tethered to their IP.

Most of the Bat family arguably should have F’d off and done their own things by this point, only coming back for very special occasions. Dick should be on his own and with the Titans. Jason and Tim similarly have their own groups to lead where they are arguably much more interesting. Babs can either run the Birds of Prey or go off and do things with other female heroes - Her and Kara being the World’s Finest Women are a major miss for DC, hell give them the DC Superhero Girls line if need be. Some of the side pieces probably don’t even need Batman like Huntress or Katana, who both seem to get by fine with minimal to no connection, especially in adaptations.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

Edit - Trailer just dropped:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ox8ZLF6cGM0

Woof. The CGI is horrendous and the way it's shot looks like a Youtube video or something.

 

[Cryborg 1987]

Superman trailer looks average. Only part where I went "WTF" was the beginning. Please show me any media where Clark-of sound mind and judgement-is yelling at someone to get his point across, let alone Lois.

Also, I feel it's beyond lazy to remix John Williams' score for your Superman movie. Donner and Reeve did that film already and Singer attempted to latch on but it wasn't well-received, move on.

 

[Humble Architect]

Clark yelling to get his point across is rare but I remember the “Supergirl from Krypton” arc having him at his most volatile, with Bruce and Diana going behind his back and getting throughly chewed out for their deceit.

I remember him almost tearing Artemis’ arm off. Clark’s got the rage, but never to Lois, Jimmy or the family, usually his yelling is saved for his imbecile teammates, especially during the Infinite Crisis leadup where, again, Wondy and Bats went full retard.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Superman trailer looks average. Only part where I went "WTF" was the beginning. Please show me any media where Clark-of sound mind and judgement-is yelling at someone to get his point across, let alone Lois.

Also, I feel it's beyond lazy to remix John Williams' score for your Superman movie. Donner and Reeve did that film already and Singer attempted to latch on but it wasn't well-received, move on.

The problem is less the rage and more so how whiny and weak he comes off. You can have a pissed off Superman, the DCAU was pretty much that, but he still had some level of sternness to him even when getting angry. Best way to sum it up, Superman should have a putting the foot down style of anger, not some kid saying it wasn’t my fault.

 

[Overly Serious]

There's some course correction visible. Gunn has never been an incompetent director on the superficial or even medium-ficial level. It's always some fundamental problem I have with him. He's a little like a building where the plasterwork and decorating is good but if you delve deeper you find some cracks. So... Lois Lane is beautiful again. (I assume the woman in the trashy orange dress behind her with the cleavage is Cat Grant). Luthor looks suitably supremacist and arrogant. Krypto is cute. Guy Gardner looks like a dick. And I was trying to see who else I could identify in it. Hawkgirl is obvious enough. Woman in the pink dress in the prison might be Star Sapphire? Not sure who the spiky woman in black is. Metamorpho is an easy one.

My prediction is an average movie with great execution. We will see.

 

[el bandito loco]

Please show me any media where Clark-of sound mind and judgement-is yelling at someone to get his point across, let alone Lois.

Clark gets angry, actually superman gets fucking pissed all the time. and that's good, I like that. Shouldn't be his default but part of the problem with the modern use of the character is he's this weird sexless angerless monk or something which is retarded. he's a normal guy, he gets mad, he yells. it's the context here that doesn't work. 'WAHHHH I DID THE RIGHT THING AND PEOPLE DONT LIKE ME FOR IT! WAHHHH' Clark wouldn't get mad about that, he did what he did because he believes it was the right thing to do. you disagree with that? whatever, doesn't matter to him. He'd agree to disagree.

Him yelling at Lois should be for a reason he would realistically yell at Lois. A huge problem with them is they make him her doormat the last 10 years. The CW show was an exercise in how angry can they make me by making this guy only exist to be nice to his wife and never get actually mad at anything beyond making an angry face and talking sternly to his kids instead of really going off once in a while when it's deserved. The best parts of the show are like the 3 times they actually made him have a normal reaction and raise his voice.

this isn't a new development either. Superman has been getting pissed off and yelling since the golden age. The bronze age precrisis shit is filled with him getting irritated and mad and eventually being like okay motherfucker this ends now. but he wouldn't get like this over something of this nature. He believed in doing something only he could, intervening in a war, that's what he was raised to do with his powers. don't like it? Tough. he doesn't need to say more other than I believed I was doing the right thing.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

That first Scene is dogshit, and its kills all the hype for anything that possibly comes after.

Talking to superman : "You will let me interview you...AS SUPERMAN!!!!"

Clark "yeah sure.."

I guess Lois just knows...are we gonna find out how she knows? Probably not.

Clark : "Go for it Cronkite"

fucking hell..

 

[Humble Architect]

Superman’s always had a “damn the consequences, I’m gonna do what’s right,” outlook, which got reigned-in during the Silver Age but thankfully reasserted itself in the Bronze Age and even more so Post-Crisis.

Ironically he’s more of a cowboy than Batman ever was, it’s part of their funny dynamic. Big red and blue is a wildcard and the brooding vigilante is practically a supercop.

Doomsday Clock is flawed, but Superman going against what everyone he knows told him to do, even Lois and standing before the world and saying that the persecution of metahumans is wrong and scapegoating by the political powers that be (while standing next to that faggot communist) is peak Superman. The man serves the people, not the government. It’s why Superman can rip off Brainiac’s head and sleep very soundly, whereas Batman would be fucked up by it.

Lois and Clark are best when her cynicism goes against his optimism, Secret Origin, another Geoff Johns work showed this very well, he doesn’t counter her points by yelling, he lets actions speak louder than words. Remember the first Donner flick where he drops the “Truth, Justice and the American Way,” for the first time and she laughs in his face?

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

I would say Dick over Damien but he doesn't necessarily have to be Batman. Nightwing is enough for me personally to not even need the Bat mantle passed down, although I love Terry and Beyond I don't particularly want that kind of Neo Gotham to be the canonical future. Damian is fine but tbh over him being Batman 666 or whatever I'd rather he just became a new good guy Ra's al Ghul as an adult. Lead a new version of the league of assassin's, maybe actually rename them to the league of shadows because they're not murderers anymore under him. But that's neither here nor there.

In an ideal world where the nature of comics would allow it, I'd like there to be no next Batman. As in, Bruce eventually retires and sees that the world no longer needs Batman, because things actually progressed, it needs something different now. And every member of the BatFam takes what they think is the most important part of Batman with them into their own identities. He'll still be around to monitor the situation and tell people to stop being shitheads, but he accepts that he's allowed hang up the cape and it's not a bad thing.

 

[Cryborg 1987]

Clark yelling to get his point across is rare but I remember the “Supergirl from Krypton” arc having him at his most volatile, with Bruce and Diana going behind his back and getting throughly chewed out for their deceit.

I remember him almost tearing Artemis’ arm off. Clark’s got the rage, but never to Lois, Jimmy or the family, usually his yelling is saved for his imbecile teammates, especially during the Infinite Crisis leadup where, again, Wondy and Bats went full retard.

The problem is less the rage and more so how whiny and weak he comes off. You can have a pissed off Superman, the DCAU was pretty much that, but he still had some level of sternness to him even when getting angry. Best way to sum it up, Superman should have a putting the foot down style of anger, not some kid saying it wasn’t my fault.

Clark gets angry, actually superman gets fucking pissed all the time. and that's good, I like that. Shouldn't be his default but part of the problem with the modern use of the character is he's this weird sexless angerless monk or something which is retarded. he's a normal guy, he gets mad, he yells. it's the context here that doesn't work. 'WAHHHH I DID THE RIGHT THING AND PEOPLE DONT LIKE ME FOR IT! WAHHHH' Clark wouldn't get mad about that, he did what he did because he believes it was the right thing to do. you disagree with that? whatever, doesn't matter to him. He'd agree to disagree.

Whoa, I never said Superman doesn't get angry, I said he doesn't yell at people when they're being argumentative to make his point. Batman & Wonder Woman scheming behind his back or flipping out because Darkseid brainwashed him is not the same thing. The DCAU is a good example as previously mentioned. Remember the Livewire episode? He's being accused of causing the accident and he puts his foot down, firmly insisting he did nothing wrong. This trailer wasn't that, he looks and sounds like a bitch.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

This "Superman" is a faggot and this movie is going to suck balls. You heard it here first.

Never been wrong about a movie, btw.

 

[BigBadBastich]

I think him being more volatile and less stoic works here because hes clearly younger and it feels like every force on the planet is acting against him. I mean theres the government(s) of the world and LexCorp who works with the governments and is on their payroll and turn a blind eye to his ethical violations and sociopathy. Then theres the fucking media outlets and even various people. But it shouldn't come across as whiny, but also not broody and asocial like Zack Snyder turned Henry Cavill in. You need some sort of balance. Also the humor and CGI work or camera and cinematography work doesn't look that great. It feels less like a movie and more like a mediocre CW or Netflix show.

The problem is less the rage and more so how whiny and weak he comes off. You can have a pissed off Superman, the DCAU was pretty much that, but he still had some level of sternness to him even when getting angry. Best way to sum it up, Superman should have a putting the foot down style of anger, not some kid saying it wasn’t my fault.

Yeah I think this is what they should go for if this movie gets a sequel. DCAU's Superman always felt like a parent scolding a child in a constructive way when he was angry. Even when Darkseid killed people he wasn't yelling or screaming his lungs out, he remained composed.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I think him being more volatile and less stoic works here because hes clearly younger and it feels like every force on the planet is acting against him. I mean theres the government(s) of the world and LexCorp who works with the governments and is on their payroll and turn a blind eye to his ethical violations and sociopathy. Then theres the fucking media outlets and even various people. But it shouldn't come across as whiny, but also not broody and asocial like Zack Snyder turned Henry Cavill in. You need some sort of balance. Also the humor and CGI work or camera and cinematography work doesn't look that great. It feels less like a movie and more like a mediocre CW or Netflix show.

Yeah I think this is what they should go for if this movie gets a sequel. DCAU's Superman always felt like a parent scolding a child in a constructive way when he was angry. Even when Darkseid killed people he wasn't yelling or screaming his lungs out, he remained composed.

See, I think a big problem with this film, and by extension Snyder, is that they are going into the whole Superman vs the government before they even establish who this Superman is. Superman now has that problem Thor has where they need to keep trying to have him find himself as the plots never really make it clear given all the unnecessary fluff.

This plot should be saved for a sequel. It is more impactful to see Superman fight to remain who he is as conditions change. Audiences need a baseline Superman that they like to follow before throwing him in these sorts of conditions. The reason Cadmus worked was that we already had seasons of content of that Superman before the big story arch forced him into such a unique situation.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

more like a mediocre CW or Netflix show.

Funny thing.

The Superman from the CW supergirl wasnt the worst.

 

[Cryborg 1987]

I complained about this trailer but I have no real solutions.

You make Superman Returns and everyone says it's boring and needs more action. You make Man of Steel and everyone says it's too action-packed. You reboot Superman again and you have to start in the middle because we've started from the beginning too many times.

At the end of the day does it really matter? When this doesn't make a billion dollars WB-one of the stupidest companies in America-will just panic and pull the plug anyway.