DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[el bandito loco]

outside of the ages, and being a boring film overall, what exactly was so bad about the film?

What wasn't bad about that movie? Superman Returns is the worst one there is. At least 3 and 4 are fun and Man of Steel looks good and has cool fights. Returns is a big fuck you.

Superman just fucks off to space and the movie spends the whole time making an argument that he sucks and hindered growth and development. While he's gone his mom moves on and starts dating, Lois gets married and had a child, jimmy finally got a promotion, lex (while evil) accomplished something.

Then the movie spends an insane amount of time being a requel, but unlike the first, is fuckin boring. Superman is portrayed as a creepy weirdo, Lois doesn't even know she fucked him but doesn't seem to care, Superman is a sad pussy the whole movie, there's no fight just lex beating the shit out of him, lex has a scheme that makes 0 sense, Superman is saved by his kid's step-dad, he eventually finds out he's the kids dad and basically tells Lois good luck with the kid, I'll be around but in a I'm fucking off kind of way.

It's the biggest character assassination of Clark we've ever had on screen. He smiles a bit but he's sad and pouts the whole time floating around like a creep. As Clark he does nothing but basically prove nobody really gave a shit about him he was just some weird guy at work people remember but barely, and as superman he's a fuckin wimp. At least in the Snyder movies I get why superman's so miserable, everyone hates him though he does the right thing. In Returns everything is Clark's fault things are how they are and he doesn't take responsibility or learn from it he just feels sorry for himself.

Routh and Spacey were great casting for the characters entirely wasted in the worst superman film script ever written. It has two scenes worth a fuck in an almost 3 hour movie, one where he saves the rocket plane and one where the bullet crushes on his eye. You have about 6 good minutes total.

People say Snyder hates Superman and maybe he does but Singer really fucking hates Superman and the way comic books and tv work. The whole movie is predicated on the concept that Superman's existence and the typical status quo is bullshit and the world and his immediate cast would be better off in life if he left and it didn't go back to the status quo at the end of the day because they could meaningly change and move on but his presence hinders that.

 

[el bandito loco]

actually excuse me, the worst Superman film script ever written was J.J. Abram's Superman FlyBy which I've read unfortunately but Returns is the worst script filmed.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Brandon Routh was great casting though and you could see that he was truly passionate about getting the character right.

Reeve was a soap actor and basically a nobody when he got Superman. Brandon Routh, swap soaps for Hallmark Christmas movies, one of which was decent (Nine Lives of Christmas), and the other pure misery. Spacey kinda looks like Hackman if you squint, so sure, why not.

The movie wants to be... a darker reboot? A straight sequel? A peek into the Snyderverse?! Maybe. Luthor isn’t a con man but a prison-yard executioner, running his own Alcatraz, shiv ready.

Whatever Singer thought he was making got lost in the sauce. Marketing was forgettable (classic DC). they just waved Dana Reeve’s approval around like a golden ticket. Forgot to stand on their own two feet.

 

[el bandito loco]

Reeve was a soap actor and basically a nobody when he got Superman. Brandon Routh, swap soaps for Hallmark Christmas movies, one of which was decent (Nine Lives of Christmas), and the other pure misery. Spacey kinda looks like Hackman if you squint, so sure, why not.

The movie wants to be... a darker reboot? A straight sequel? A peek into the Snyderverse?! Maybe. Luthor isn’t a con man but a prison-yard executioner, running his own Alcatraz, shiv ready.

Whatever Singer thought he was making got lost in the sauce. Marketing was forgettable (classic DC). they just waved Dana Reeve’s approval around like a golden ticket. Forgot to stand on their own two feet.

What is so strange about Returns, is it feels like a backhanded compliment. It's a love letter to the first two, that also shits on them. It's sort of a fascinating movie because all jokes aside I really can't tell you what Singer was trying to do at all. It's sort of a sequel, sort of a remake, sort of a reboot, and fails at all of it.

It was probably the most anticipation I ever had for a movie when it came out and I tried to convince myself I liked it but I didn't. Even now, I don't even hate it, although I think it's far and away the worst Superman movie. I just don't know what the fuck it's even supposed to be.

I think Routh and Spacey in a full reboot in line with the post crisis comics that came out in 2006 would have kicked ass. I also wouldn't have minded it being a new Superman 3 if it made sense with the first two and wasn't adoring the originals trying to copy everything about them while also basically making narrative choices that was a fuck you to them.

Honestly the best thing about it is Spacey's Lex which I thought his performance and characterization was good but his overall scheme and the main plot is so retarded it doesn't do him any favors. He's great but he's working with nonsense. The scenes of him on the yacht are actually really good and he's scary, I'd add that to my list of good moments. But then you remember he's building an island nobody could live on to try to sell it and build a new country and destroy the US or some asinine ridiculous shit like that and any goodwill from his preforming goes out the window because the movie is just stupid.

 

[Captain Syrup]

In a perfect world, Nicholson would have played Joker in 1980, By ’89...? He was good, but definitely coasting.

At some point, hell yeah Spacey was dream casting. By the time he landed it he was nowhere near the acting monster he used to be.

And if you’ll allow me a minute of armchair quarterbacking: I cannot stand the immediate arrival of Lex in a Superman story. Here's something Batman movies do right—and something more directors should take notes on—not every villain needs to show up to destroy civilization on day one. He should start as mid-tier, dangerous but manageable, until he gets the right tools.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

And if you’ll allow me a minute of armchair quarterbacking: I cannot stand the immediate arrival of Lex in a Superman story. Here's something Batman movies do right—and something more directors should take notes on—not every villain needs to show up to destroy civilization on day one. He should start as mid-tier, dangerous but manageable, until he gets the right tools.

Yeah that's something that Man of Steel did right. Too bad it followed that up by doing Zod again.

Oh and introducing Lois Lane. Batman films know not to introduce Catwoman from the get-go so why the fuck do Superman movies always insist on shoving Lois Lane in at the start? Especially since they already had Lana Lang in Clark's childhood flashbacks so why not just use her so you can use the extra screen time to develop Clark's love interest?

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

And the scene where Supes gets shot in the eye and you get to see the bullet bounce off in slow-motion was awesome. Too bad it's like the only cool part of the film.

where the bullet crushes on his eye.

Stolen from Supreme Power when Hyperion was in a strip club and the general meets up with him to let him know he either falls in line with what the US Government wants, or they'll take measures against him. His response is to take the generals' sidearm, put the barrel right up to his eye, and fire a round in the crowded room. The general back down for a bit, all the girls and patrons are terrified, and Hyperion looks at him like "What possible measures?" and goes back to relaxing.

Where does the 800lbs Gorilla sit?

I wish Marvel had the balls to make an accurate Squadron Supreme film. Ignore the MCU bullshit for a minute and just work on adapting that first run, then put it out there. Racist Batman, Disaffected Superman, Government Fixer Green Lantern, Psychotic Wonderwoman, and a Flash just trying to make it all work.

 

[el bandito loco]

I wish Marvel had the balls to make an accurate Squadron Supreme film. Ignore the MCU bullshit for a minute and just work on adapting that first run, then put it out there. Racist Batman, Disaffected Superman, Government Fixer Green Lantern, Psychotic Wonderwoman, and a Flash just trying to make it all work.

I dont. Its the same as every other deconstruction we've gotten of the JLA/Avengers for 50 years. SS, The Authority, The Boys, Watchmen, Injustice etc. It's all the same lazy shit with varying shades of grey we've gotten since Earth 3 in the silver age.

The comic itself, at least Supreme Power is pretty good it's good JMS but why would I want to see more of the exact thing that's oversaturated superhero shit forever? If WB wouldn't have tried and failed with course correction with Snyder because of BvSs reception we would have basically got that. I don't want more knock off no name pastiche characters I'd rather just get the real ones in a good movie for once.

 

[Captain Syrup]

BvsS

Biggest bag fumbling in cinematic history, but I guess it had to happen. A final, belching squeeze to wring the last drop of DiDio out of DC's colon.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

I doubt they'd make a decent product out of it, but that's down to their skill in such things and the track record we've seen over the last several films. Otherwise I have to disagree. SS/SP was an interesting redo of a great Gruenwald comic from the 80s and the art was incredible. And while I mean no offence, Authority was only lazy if you didn't read the rest of the Wildstorm universe; it was the natural conclusion of that cynical world losing control of some of its' most powerful people after making them ineffectual for years. I see lots of people shit on it and every time I have to wonder if they had any real idea what led to it and how much it affected the rest of that world. They might as well walk around loudly declaring I GET IT while missing the point entirely.

Wildstorm, even when it was part of Image, was trying to generate a history comparable to the near-century of stories the other Big Two had and for all it's flaws (Stormwatch was initially one of the worst books ever written, Sigma was crap, Cybernary was awful AND boring, Gen13 and DV8 were superficial popmusic and overwhelming edge in comic form), they did a pretty good job of recreating the feel of those intertwined properties the other companies stewarded over the decades. Marvel had Rick Jones involved with a ton of big names in his universe, Wildstorm had Saul Baxter tied to things like Team One, Jenny Sparks and the UK groups, the Wildcats and monsters like Kenyan in his.

I do believe that Squadron Supreme/Supreme Power was a bit of a deconstruction yet it was a good one. And I'm tired of people using the word Deconstruction as a catchall when inspiration is the better descriptor. I see something as just a Deconstruction when it doesn't really change anything else outside of it and has superficial difference to its' inspiration; Supreme was a deconstruction but it was also a loveletter to the ages of Superman. I would argue that Judgement Day was a deconstruction, though it was probably the best writing youngblood ever experienced. I liked both, but they didn't really do anything to the greater Image universe. If everything is a deconstruction of something else, why bother using the term at all?

Authority changed quite a bit for the other books and the following years of WS. It changed the status quo in its' world, changed how characters in other books acted in that world, inspired one of the best Superman stories ever written. It generated characters that DC decided they absolutely needed to use in their stories (I'd argue for the worse, but whatever).

Batman inspired the Midnighter and yet he's more than a Batman Deconstruction. Superman inspired Thor, Zorro and The Shadow inspired Batman, Doc Savage inspired Tom Strong, Nick Fury inspired John Lynch, Hercules and Samson inspired Superman, Robin Hood inspired Green Arrow, Lensman inspired Green Lantern, The Heap inspired Swamp Thing and Manthing, Mr Hyde inspired The Hulk etc. They still have value and can make for interesting stories. If you want something wholly original, you'll end up with an oddity like Stardust The Superwizrd or Metabarons, which was... interesting but goddamn weird and hard to identify with.

Wow, that was a lot. I apologize for my wall of retardation.

 

[el bandito loco]

I read earlier that Clayface is officially going to be our first thing set in the Gotham of the Gunn DCU. Well that's just fuckin peachy. A Batman-less introduction. and really he shouldn't have fucked Reeves around and taken away Clayface for the Batman Part II. Because just like Sony had with Kraven, Morbius and Madame Web, nobody will see it. Why? Same as those movies. It's not like Joker or Venom were. The GA will go who the fuck is Clayface? no Batman? Fuck that.

However, if he wouldn't have pigeonholed Reeves into grounded shit and taken that character away, that movie would probably be done or almost done by now and not have just finished the script after having to restart more than once, and had clayface as (the) a bad guy in it.

then they could release this shit. do I want 2 clayface movies back to back, let alone a solo outing? No, not really although I've always wanted him in a movie. however, grandma and Johnny casual wouldn't go, who the fuck is that guy? And would be more likely to go and see it. It'd be a different iteration of course but they're used to that now at least, and it might have a chance of making more than it's budget and a half if they just saw a Batman deal with him a year prior.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Technically Creature Commandos (I didn't like it) was the first of the new Gunn DCU, and both Batman and Clayface appear in it. Saying Batman appeared is being generous tho.

edit: ACKSUALLY

 

[el bandito loco]

Technically Creature Commandos (I didn't like it) was the first of the new Gunn DCU, and both Batman and Clayface appear in it. Saying Batman appeared is being generous tho.

edit: ACKSUALLY

ACKSUALLY, that's not what I said. I said it was the first set in Gotham. CC wasn't primarily set in Gotham City. and a Clayface focused movie (the way it's being spoken about) sounds like a Batman-less introduction to their Gotham as a whole.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Fair point!

 

[Starman John]

Oh yeah, the Creature Commandos show. I genuinely forgot that it existed.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

I wouldn't count too much on that Clayface movie. Although if Zaslav fires the two idiots in charge of movies and installs Safran, it will probably still happen, regardless of the coat and imminent loss. Not 100% sure he will be allowed to do that. They are hemorrhaging money at a Disney-esque pace and its not 2023 any more.

 

[el bandito loco]

I wouldn't count too much on that Clayface movie. Although if Zaslav fires the two idiots in charge of movies and installs Safran, it will probably still happen, regardless of the coat and imminent loss. Not 100% sure he will be allowed to do that. They are hemorrhaging money at a Disney-esque pace and its not 2023 any more.

what's funny about it, is if it does get made, I actually predict I'll probably like it just fine. I doubt I'd love it but it sounds kind of up my alley and about a character I legitimately really like. it just seems like a counter-intuitive and stupid ass decision to make it in the first place, especially if it really came at the cost of possibly having him as the main villain in a normal Batman movie about, well, Batman.

legit the only reason I don't want WB to completely shit the bed is I don't want DC sold to Disney or some other fags, and I don't want the Looney Tunes in a similar predicament. if they do shit the bed, I'd rather all of their franchises just fold and get laid to rest and the only new things we see of them is merchandise and reprinted material be that books or DVDs or whatever for like 20 years until some people who actually like that stuff beyond a business/profit place get their hands on it and do something cool with it.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Oh yeah, the Creature Commandos show. I genuinely forgot that it existed.

It is extremely mid, wouldn't waste your time with it.

it just seems like a counter-intuitive and stupid ass decision

Basically sums up Gunn's entire lineup.

I have no idea what le-funny man is doing with DC. Everything about the new universe just seems like he is purposefully making the weirdest/worst decisions he can muster up. Biggest guess with things like Clayface is that he is just clinging to the Suicide Squad as his thing, or just want Alan Tudyk to keep the role.

I am also worried over the lack of certain big hitters like Wonder Woman and Flash in this universe. They have no dedicated projects beyond weird spin-offs, which is concerning...

---

---

Honestly, have a question for the thread. If you were to handle the DC Universe, how would you go about it? I have honestly been thinking through how I would set up this universe, more importantly Superman and Batman, but am curious as to how others would create a cohesive DC world. I find that in thinking about it, I come up with too much as DC has so many characters I would want to have roaming around.

DC seems easy, but honestly, given all the history, rogues, super families, and just general exposure so many of their characters have had, I feel like DC is just naturally a much more difficult beast to set up than Marvel, which feels like it had way less to work with.

 

[Fartificial Insmelligence]

It is extremely mid, wouldn't waste your time with it.


Basically sums up Gunn's entire lineup.

I have no idea what le-funny man is doing with DC. Everything about the new universe just seems like he is purposefully making the weirdest/worst decisions he can muster up. Biggest guess with things like Clayface is that he is just clinging to the Suicide Squad as his thing, or just want Alan Tudyk to keep the role.

I am also worried over the lack of certain big hitters like Wonder Woman and Flash in this universe. They have no dedicated projects beyond weird spin-offs, which is concerning...

---

---

Honestly, have a question for the thread. If you were to handle the DC Universe, how would you go about it? I have honestly been thinking through how I would set up this universe, more importantly Superman and Batman, but am curious as to how others would create a cohesive DC world. I find that in thinking about it, I come up with too much as DC has so many characters I would want to have roaming around.

DC seems easy, but honestly, given all the history, rogues, super families, and just general exposure so many of their characters have had, I feel like DC is just naturally a much more difficult beast to set up than Marvel, which feels like it had way less to work with.

If I was given carte-blanche and a black check to oversee DC, y’know what I’d do? Make them period pieces, crank out 20 at a time, make ‘em 30 minutes max, and sell ‘em like we used to sell movie serials back in the day. Imagine paying 5 bucks to go watch 2-3 Batman short films in a row, and they’re set in the late 30’s, so it’s full of retro-tech and pulp-style versions of villains…

 

[OutInTheRain]

Honestly, have a question for the thread. If you were to handle the DC Universe, how would you go about it? I have honestly been thinking through how I would set up this universe, more importantly Superman and Batman, but am curious as to how others would create a cohesive DC world. I find that in thinking about it, I come up with too much as DC has so many characters I would want to have roaming around.

DC seems easy, but honestly, given all the history, rogues, super families, and just general exposure so many of their characters have had, I feel like DC is just naturally a much more difficult beast to set up than Marvel, which feels like it had way less to work with.

Prestige TV. DC is too high concept most of the time to have a short movie. Green Lantern? That backstory is like a tome to make that work. Do a season that is a procedural that wraps into a main plot like early seasons of Justified.

Do a Superman show, get the classic villains in, and introduce the world. Do Batman, and let the world get strange, leave out the Joker, he's been overdone. Wonder Woman and do the more fantasy elements of DC. Green Lantern for space. Flash to round things out. Make sure to have a couple episodes a season just having them do self contained stories to establish them as heroes.

Then do a JLA show. First team ups, then making the team. Introduce the core conflict of all the DC series, probably Darkseid. From there, do another round of shows with the fab 5, continuing their stories, but also slowly advancing the main plot. Add more chars to either the shows you have or if it's doing really well add more shows.

Have the whole thing wrapped up neatly in like 7-8 years. Sell merch, sell syndication rights to other streaming services. Keep things relatively low budget and it can be a steady stream of merch.

At the same time, leverage the IP for games. Stay in the AA space, avoid the poz of the AAA scene. Have each medium advertise the other. Fire everyone who makes the comics, they aren't helping.