Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Iwasamwillbe said:
View attachment 945353

This guy gets it.

To recap, we need diversity in video games because.

1. There are already a "million different choices" in characters for "straight white dudes" to relate to and want to be.

2. There are billions of people in the world, and there exist groups of people other than "straight white dudes", so to complain about a character being a woman, person of color, or non-heterosexual is..."misplaced", to say the last. "Straight white dude" isn't the "default setting" for life in this world, after all.

3. If a character is not straight, white, or male, it doesn't (necessarily) detract from the gameplay, so it shouldn't matter.

4. If a character isn't straight, white, or male, then someone of similar characteristics to them will suddenly find someone to relate to, to look up to, to see themselves in.

5. Diversity in games doesn't impact gameplay, doesn't harm straight white dudes, and can potentially help others. If you still find a problem with that, then you're just an asshole.

QED
Click to expand...


I think a good majority of people really just don't care about diversity or lack thereof in a video game so long as the game itself is good. Hell you could exploit your audience to hell and back and I think nobody would give a shit as long as the game is good. I understand that it can be exciting to feel as though you have some representation in a game but people constantly forget that there is so much more to a person/character's overall identity than their gender identity, skin color, or sexual orientation.

There are many many ways that someone could relate to someone else beyond the aforementioned traits. If someone isn't able to connect with other characters and absolutely needs someone to be "diverse" in order to connect with them then I'm sorry to say but that seems to be indicative of a deeper personal issue that needs to be worked out. Putting diverse choices into a game isn't going to make it any better for those particular types of people since learning to connect with people different from you is kind of something you need to learn in modern American society.
 
mr.moon1488 said:
I think context matters. I
Click to expand...

This right there. And setting. If your game is modern day America, it's a very mixed bag of races. But say, your setting is...Gondor from Tolkeinlore which has a very detailed history and inspiration from British history then why the hell is there some fucking rando black dude in it??? (Shadow of Mordor 2) and why NEVER fucking explain that when every other character is goddamn WHITE. Black people don't just pop out of nothing. There's a evolution of people and race. It's very apparent pandering for no reason.
 
knightlautrec said:
This right there. And setting. If your game is modern day America, it's a very mixed bag of races. But say, your setting is...Gondor from Tolkeinlore which has a very detailed history and inspiration from British history then why the hell is there some fucking rando black dude in it??? (Shadow of Mordor 2) and why NEVER fucking explain that when every other character is goddamn WHITE. Black people don't just pop out of nothing. There's a evolution of people and race. It's very apparent pandering for no reason.
Click to expand...
I think the best example of this would be the Witcher series. It's a game based on Polish mythology, but people were bitching about a lack of kangs. When they finally got kangs, they were absolute cunts just like every other faction in the series, and they were still pissed. lol
 
"Diversity in games" is a topic that was beaten to death long ago, and since most of the answers have been covered already, I'll not repeat them.

One I've not seen mentioned though. Let's say games need diversity. Let's say we need more black trans lesbians of colour. How do you enforce it? You have to not only force games to be made that way, but force people to buy and play them as well.

The first part is the easy part, but it's still almost impossible and a minefield of woke problems. Do you want the dreaded straight white males to make games about black trans lesbians of colour? If not, are you going to force black trans lesbians of colour to make them even if they don't want to? You can try and gatekeep the industry so only people who agree with you get in, but how will you stop the people you cast out from making their own gaming scene without you?

The latter part is basically impossible. Get woke, go broke is a popular saying for a reason. There's no shortage of examples, from Battlefield V to Wokenstien Youngblood. You can't force people to buy a game, play it, enjoy it, and agree with it's message. It can't be done.
 
I have yet to find an actual real human being who has expressed to me that they give a shit what character they're playing as in a video game. Neither any of my not-straight-white-male friends nor my straight white male friends has once said, "I don't like game X because you have to play as a Y." The entire topic is a giant nothingburger.
 
How do you know the guy holding the paddle in Pong or the guy flying the ship in Galaga isn't a black guy or a homo or an FTM troon?

knightlautrec said:
This right there. And setting. If your game is modern day America, it's a very mixed bag of races. But say, your setting is...Gondor from Tolkeinlore which has a very detailed history and inspiration from British history then why the hell is there some fucking rando black dude in it??? (Shadow of Mordor 2) and why NEVER fucking explain that when every other character is goddamn WHITE. Black people don't just pop out of nothing. There's a evolution of people and race. It's very apparent pandering for no reason.
Click to expand...
There were black people in Gondor in the movie. In Return of the King there's one or two black extras in the Minas Tirith scenes (including the one where Gandalf is riding through the city). It makes sense since Minas Tirith is a major city of Gondor and presumably there might be a black guy or two there just like how it wouldn't be totally odd to find a black guy or two in Constantinople in the Middle Ages.
 
Iwasamwillbe said:
Because something something (1), (2), and (4).

It matters because a trans black lesbian might finally find a character she can relate to.
Click to expand...
If at any point you put marketing decisions before story, you are fucking your story. If you can't understand this, if you think the reality of the modern media landscape requires an artist to make compromises to appeal to specific demographics, or that that is an unreasonable position based on a naive world view then you are an actual shill, and you belong in accounts receivable or - at best - advertising.

This is not opinion, it is fact. The past fifteen years of fucking capeshit, reboots and sequels is proof, we have seen where this 'pandering makes people feels goods, that's all that matters' attitude gets us and it is the dumpster fire known as modern day Hollywood. Why the fuck are you trying to jam it into indie games, ea and ubisoft put out plenty of bland market researched bullshit already.

As for the idea that 'you shouldn't care about it (unless you are not white straight or male then it's probably the only thing keeping you from committing suicide) lol why do you care'
First of all, that's racist and secondly we fucking didn't care about it. Samus, Lara Croft, CJ, Lo Wang, Jill Valentine, Zelda, Peach - I'm sure you can think of others, people play games for the gameplay and the only time anyone made a fuss about it was when some magazine wanted a new angle when writing copy.

It was the sjws who insisted we care about it, who insisted trannies were killing themselves because Mario had a moustache. And so people started paying attention. And guess what, the majority of those people were straight white men, because that's who plays fucking games. How fucking stupid do you have to be to spend five years screaming 'THE SEX AND RACE OF THE PROTAGONIST IS VITALLY IMPORTANT' and then throw up your hands in shock when the primary audience thinks their sex and race are vitally important?

I also have a serious problem with the idea that straight white men shouldn't care about this stuff, regardless of the reason. There is a good reason we use words like soyboy and cuck for people with that attitude, and it's not just about displaying disgust or signalling the in-group. It is because you can't respect someone who doesn't respect themselves. And as the old saying goes, you might not be able to make someone respect you, but you should never allow them to disrespect you.


Excellent bait, that was good to get off my chest.
 
Judge Dredd said:
are you going to force black trans lesbians of colour to make them even if they don't want to?
Click to expand...

considering there are people who cry that movies about africa or other shitholes aren't made in africa (just like space movies need to be made in space, because reasons) or only an egyptian should be allowed to play one, I wouldn't put it past them to want exactly that.

Judge Dredd said:
You can't force people to buy a game, play it, enjoy it, and agree with it's message. It can't be done.
Click to expand...

you can't force the purchase, but you can make them agree to the message. problem is propaganda isn't working when it's basically screaming down anyone with a megaphone.
 
ZMOT said:
considering there are people who cry that movies about africa or other shitholes aren't made in africa (just like space movies need to be made in space, because reasons) or only an egyptian should be allowed to play one, I wouldn't put it past them to want exactly that.
Click to expand...

You mean an Egyptian should only be allowed to be played by a kang.
 
Didn't see anything about this in the past few pages, so here we go again!
www.gamesindustry.biz

Games professor accuses Kingdom of Loathing designer of abuse

A.M. Darke shares her story of physical, emotional abuse at the hands of ex-husband Zack Johnson
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
archive.is

Games professor accuses Kingdom of Loathing designer of abuse | Games…

archived 23 Sep 2019 17:27:29 UTC
archive.is archive.is
Games professor accuses Kingdom of Loathing designer of abuse
Click to expand...
A.M. Darke shares her story of physical, emotional abuse at the hands of ex-husband Zack Johnson

UC Santa Cruz assistant professor of games and playable media A.M. Darke has accused her ex-husband Zack 'Jick' Johnson, designer of Kingdom of Loathing and West of Loathing of physical and emotional abuse.

In a public Google Doc, Darke presented a detailed account of her dating relationship and later marriage to Johnson, beginning over a decade ago. [Content warning: Link contains detailed descriptions of alleged sexual abuse separate from the accusations against Johnson]

Darke added on Twitter that she remains uncredited for multiple development contributions to Kingdom of Loathing, saying that Johnson went so far as to remove a zone in the game "so that he didn't have to credit me."

In a statement provided to GamesIndustry.biz, Johnson denied several of the accusations:

"The allegations against me of physical abuse are false, as are all the accusations of misconduct against Kevin [Simmons] and most of the document's depictions of one-dimensional villainy. Aliah [A.M] did not work on Kingdom of Loathing except to provide feedback, and her name has been placed in that section of the game's credits, as per her request. I have made my apologies, and I wish her the best in the future."

One such apology is visible in a reply on Twitter to Darke's thread sharing the accusations:

"I'm ashamed of the emotional immaturity and anger and cruelty I brought to the table in our marriage. In the years since then I've tried -- am trying -- to use that shame to be better than I was. I know this doesn't help you, but I'm sorry."

On social media, other community members and involved parties have responded to Darke's allegations. West of Loathing designer Kevin Simmons, whom Darke claimed was in the room during an instance of physical abuse but did nothing to stop it, publicly apologized.

"I am also sorry for my role in your relationship with Zack," he said. "I had had a sheltered life, and didn't know what emotional, psychological, or financial abuse looked like. I should have understood that the power dynamic was incredibly unequal. I should have intervened instead of hiding away. I am sorry for the ways I contributed to your suffering."

In an additional statement to GamesIndustry.biz, Simmons said the following:

"My memories of events differ significantly from Aliah's account, but fundamentally I feel that doesn't matter. I believe the underlying truth -- the recognition of the culture of privilege and patriarchy that men participate in and benefit from. Since reading Aliah's statement I have been grappling with my complicity in that toxic culture. I regret that my ignorance and inaction contributed to her suffering.

"While I have learned many lessons over the past decade, I am very aware that I still have work to do. I am learning now about the concept of transformative justice, and have begun working with trained mediators to understand how to build more equitable and safer communities. It is my hope that, given time, I can help transform the games industry and the world at large for the better."

Frog Fractions 2 creator Jim Crawford expressed his support of Darke, and publicly stated he will no longer be a part of the Video Games Hot Dog podcast he was regularly recording with both Johnson and Simmons.

Bonnie Mattson, mentioned in Darke's account as Johnson's ex-girlfriend, also came forward on Twitter to corroborate both Darke's identity as well as add her own alleged similar experience with Johnson in 2005.

"I believe very strongly that people can change," she said. "I don't know who Zack Johnson is now, in 2019. What I can say is that [Darke's] picture of his character is absolutely consistent with my experience as his girlfriend in 2005, when I was 19 years old...I both experienced it directly as his girlfriend and then later observed the same dynamics between A.M. and Zack firsthand when I later traveled to Europe with them in 2007."

Darke's accusations came amidst a series of numerous other abuse allegations across the gaming industry earlier this month.
Click to expand...

Cast of characters:
AM: accuser
Zack Johnson: ex-husband
Kevin Simmons: co-worker to Zack, lived in same house as them during their marriage

The Google doc is now private and their Twitter account is now deleted. Hmm.
 
Last edited:
Cheetahman said:
Didn't see anything about this in the past few pages, so here we go again!
www.gamesindustry.biz

Games professor accuses Kingdom of Loathing designer of abuse

A.M. Darke shares her story of physical, emotional abuse at the hands of ex-husband Zack Johnson
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
Click to expand...
"My memories of events differ significantly from Aliah's account, but fundamentally I feel that doesn't matter. I believe the underlying truth -- the recognition of the culture of privilege and patriarchy that men participate in and benefit from. Since reading Aliah's statement I have been grappling with my complicity in that toxic culture. I regret that my ignorance and inaction contributed to her suffering.
Click to expand...

God damn, dude, never fucking apologize. Why do these dumb motherfuckers keep making this mistake?

This will just chum the waters and draw more sharks.

He should have just said "lol, my ex-wife? Fuck that bitch, she's a lying whore." and left it at that. If you're going to be "canceled" you might as well do something fun on the way out.
 
Iwasamwillbe said:
View attachment 945353

This guy gets it.

To recap, we need diversity in video games because.

1. There are already a "million different choices" in characters for "straight white dudes" to relate to and want to be.

2. There are billions of people in the world, and there exist groups of people other than "straight white dudes", so to complain about a character being a woman, person of color, or non-heterosexual is..."misplaced", to say the last. "Straight white dude" isn't the "default setting" for life in this world, after all.

3. If a character is not straight, white, or male, it doesn't (necessarily) detract from the gameplay, so it shouldn't matter.

4. If a character isn't straight, white, or male, then someone of similar characteristics to them will suddenly find someone to relate to, to look up to, to see themselves in.

5. Diversity in games doesn't impact gameplay, doesn't harm straight white dudes, and can potentially help others. If you still find a problem with that, then you're just an asshole.

QED
Click to expand...

I saw this in my feed from a bunch of soy drinking types. This is pure shit and you should realize it. By allowing diversity in games you enable two minute hate type outrage which kills all hype for the game faster yhan the devs can do it themselves
 
UC Santa Cruz assistant professor of games and playable media A.M. Darke
Click to expand...
"...Enoby Dementia Raven Way"

Content warning: Link contains detailed descriptions of alleged sexual abuse separate from the accusations against Johnson
Click to expand...
Waaaaaaitwaitwaitwaitwait. It's a long-ass writeup accusing a guy of various naughty things, but the only specific accusations (which need a content warning) are a rape fanfic about someone else?

"My memories of events differ significantly from Aliah's account, but fundamentally I feel that doesn't matter. I believe the underlying truth -- the recognition of the culture of privilege and patriarchy that men participate in and benefit from. Since reading Aliah's statement I have been grappling with my complicity in that toxic culture. I regret that my ignorance and inaction contributed to her suffering.
Click to expand...
A shame he didn't kill himself, then. Also, West of Loathing is badly scripted.

On social media, other community members and involved parties have responded to Darke's allegations. West of Loathing designer Kevin Simmons, whom Darke claimed was in the room during an instance of physical abuse but did nothing to stop it, publicly apologized.

"I am also sorry for my role in your relationship with Zack," he said. "I had had a sheltered life, and didn't know what emotional, psychological, or financial abuse looked like. I should have understood that the power dynamic was incredibly unequal. I should have intervened instead of hiding away. I am sorry for the ways I contributed to your suffering."
Click to expand...
🤔
...how can you be a game developer and not know what beating people up looks like? Goddammit, they're all soycucks cucking each other, and none of them deserve to breed.
 
Diversity in games is great, we need more openly gay characters in vidya

43fc2fc.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom