Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Brain Problems said:
Engineers should totally design around fringe medical cases that affect a tiny percentage of the population. Also love the tacit admission that there's no point owning VR anyway since all you get are artsy walking sims and variations on duck hunt.

I'm more annoyed that this "woman" has a rig that can handle VR, fuckin bitch.
Click to expand...
you can run VR on a 970 with an i5. also the quest2 is standalone.

she's also not wrong, usability is one the main issues with current VR software (games and otherwise). think about it, what would you really need for a VR walking sim? one.fucking.button, literally "press X to forward". yet you see UX abominations that would make gothic 1 blush, where you're supposed to hold the UI with one controller and use the other as a fucking 3d laser pointer. it's literally putting a 2d interface in a 3d space with no rhyme or reason. bonus points: it's a seated game.

I can't blame devs too much, there's no established unofficial input scheme (keyboard has WASD+space+leftclick, controllers have movement/aiming on sticks, fire on trigger, you can pick up most games and they'll follow that right out of the box), so they had to come up with their own. and as much as indies fill an important niche of the ecosystem, even more so after AAA moved on, they simply lack the R&D and manpower to distill it down to what works or not, and usability is even more important in a 3d space like VR.

Judge Dredd said:
I think that's just the kind of stuff that game journos play.

I don't own a VR headset (yet) but my understanding is that things like free movement have been solved. The PSVR2 is getting a lot of hype because PSVR was bad, but Sony actually payed for AAA content. PSVR2 is looking good, and if Sony continues to pay for exclusives like they have been, it could be good for VR.

Because of the problems with VR such as high price, high system requires, and a lack of good games, AAA devs and wokescolds have largely ignored it. Now it's picking up momentum again, wokists are going to try and make it a culture war battle group, but it's to little, to late.
Click to expand...
VR is an accessory like fight stick or a hotas. would you play a fightan game with a hotas? of course not. would you play an RTS with a fight stick? of course not. some genres work great in VR, some less (and then it still comes down to how it's implemented). also as much as people shit on walking sims, VR is perfect for it since the depth and "immersion" make gives you a whole different feel than laying in your chair pressing buttons.

PSVR is also fine, it's technically worse, but actually using it bridges a lot of the issues PCVR simply doesn't have since it's properly integrated with a focus of ease of use. you can also blame valve pricing itself out of the market with overpriced chinkshit controllers, leaving the door wide open for facebook to set the standards (and price).

XMassAllYearRound said:
Myst is shit, it was shit when the technology at the time forced a powerpoint-esque limitation on it, it was shit when it was released as realMyst, and it is shit now in VR. 3D platformers are evwn worse in VR, everything is great until you have a dozen dinguses or a helicopter or whatever the fuck else the devs thought would make a great "cinematic" sequence just for you to have to slowly aim your fucking wii controllers to the next platform.
Click to expand...
moss and astro bot rescue say hello.
 
Last edited:
this kind of virtue-signaling reminds me of what happened similarly with Georges Floyd/BLM 2 years ago.

CDProjekt.png Electronic Arts.png

 
We, the Slavs, are notorious for piracy. It's as natural as breathing to us.

So it definitely won't make that much of a difference.
 
BananaSplit said:
this kind of virtue-signaling reminds me of what happened similarly with Georges Floyd/BLM 2 years ago.

View attachment 3047447View attachment 3047448

Click to expand...
What did they do to the FIFA and NHL games? Did all the references to Russia get replaced with Badguyland and the Russian flags changed to white flags that say "this country bad, stand with Ukraine?" If you play as a Russian team, does a giant disclaimer pop up before and after the match that reminds you that Russia is evil and gives you a charity to donate to?
 
BananaSplit said:
this kind of virtue-signaling reminds me of what happened similarly with Georges Floyd/BLM 2 years ago.

View attachment 3047447View attachment 3047448

Click to expand...
CD Projekt Red should be more concerned with how Cyberpunk 2077 will still need more updates years later with their unfinished game, and EA managed to make FIFA and Battlefield unplayable due to content and changes that no one but their moderators asked for.
 
Mega Man 2 Intro - NES said:
I was going to make a joke about Euro Truck Simulator not letting you drive to Ukraine but even they're in on it. Is there anybody on the planet not talking about this psyop war?

View attachment 3049303
Click to expand...
They could open a Kickstarter for the new Stalker game at this point and it would be funded within 6 hours and they'd have enough money left over to have properly functioning character rigs.

like goddamn who the fuck cares about DLC. This makes it look like the war is just another marketing opportunity, prehaps putin should do the needful and start launching fireworks into England just like that little german boy did.
 
This "halting sales in Russia" bullshit by corpos will ultimately backfire, because it won't have the effect they're hoping it'll have. All these naive little shit stains thinking that "Oh, it'll cause the populace to rise up and overthrow the government".

Bitch, have you EVER been to a Communist country?
 
Russians are the gods of pirating and cracking software, if they can't get it through any legal channels then they'll damn sure get it another way, halting sales will do jack shit.
 
KokoroKoroki said:
Russians are the gods of pirating and cracking software, if they can't get it through any legal channels then they'll damn sure get it another way, halting sales will do jack shit.
Click to expand...
Now only if they could emulate a competent ground invasion.

marvlouslie said:
This "halting sales in Russia" bullshit by corpos will ultimately backfire, because it won't have the effect they're hoping it'll have. All these naive little shit stains thinking that "Oh, it'll cause the populace to rise up and overthrow the government".

Bitch, have you EVER been to a Communist country?
Click to expand...
They know it won't really effect sales since they pirate shit anyway, this is corporate grand standing since the people going OMGUKRAINE are the ones with money.
 
Last edited:
Judge Dredd said:
Eldan Ring is doing well. Along with the usual game journos complaining about the difficulty, various hack devs have come out to complain about the "UX" and quest design.

View attachment 3053568

Which led to this meme.
View attachment 3053567

Some of the comments are good too.
View attachment 3053597
I would post more comments and reactions, but I don't have a Twitter account and it demands I sign in if I do anything other than read a direct link and the first few replies.
Click to expand...
They're not lying about the quest design Souls games have always had bad quest design. Elden Ring is really no different. When people play Bloodborne most people will wind up missing the quests and usually kill the NPCs instead. Hell Father Gascoigne has a quest tied to him to make an item that will stun him for a few seconds and the vast majority of players wind up missing the quest chain.

Dodging attacks and hitting glowing weak spots work for a wide variety of games, this even includes Monster Hunter.

Like this really isn't some controversy as some people are trying to make this out to be. Horizon's melee system operates different than the Soulsborne melee and you string together combos, there's even specific stance tells you'll see to implement a specific move because you'll see a glint form at the spear for a brief second. If you don't hit the shoulder buttons then and hold off doing so, you'll wind up not continuing the chain.

The Soulsborne games could probably use some refinements to the UI design, Monster Hunter World reworked the standard series UI much to it's benefit and gave customization options to players. There's been many instances where in the Soulsborne games that having quicker access to more than 1 item or allowing an inventory wheel would have probably made things go smoother.
 
Last edited:
Unironically, even Jason Schreier likes Elden Ring a lot.

The most accessible From Software game.
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 13-52-26 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png 1
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 13-52-31 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png

Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 13-57-15 Jason Schreier ( jasonschreier) Twitter.png 2

Willing to spend a bit of effort to play the game.
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 13-59-48 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png 3

Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 14-04-07 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png 4
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 14-04-12 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png

Even him loves the post making fun at Ubisoft devs or (ex)Horizon devs about game design. Sadly, he deleted that tweet, probably because of "feeling bad" for siding with gamers.
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 13-53-52 Jason schreier elden ring - Google Search.png
Up to you believe me or not on this one, but he did say something along the line with "main protagonist keeps talking to herself about hints doing platform puzzle".
The tweet search image will give you this.
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 14-09-24 https twitter com jasonschreier status 1500550251773673475 -...png
And a follow up reply about player character keep talking about hints along with UI telling you everything.
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 14-27-22 Marcel Hatam on Twitter.png

Last one with Horizon games, not sure which game he talks about around Feb 2017, maybe Zelda BOTW?
Screenshot 2022-03-08 at 14-06-03 Jason Schreier on Twitter.png
 
Marissa Moira said:
They're not lying about the quest design Souls games have always had bad quest design. Elden Ring is really no different. When people play Bloodborne most people will wind up missing the quests and usually kill the NPCs instead. Hell Father Gascoigne has a quest tied to him to make an item that will stun him for a few seconds and the vast majority of players wind up missing the quest chain.

Dodging attacks and hitting glowing weak spots work for a wide variety of games, this even includes Monster Hunter.

Like this really isn't some controversy as some people are trying to make this out to be. Horizon's melee system operates different than the Soulsborne melee and you string together combos, there's even specific stance tells you'll see to implement a specific move because you'll see a glint form at the spear for a brief second. If you don't hit the shoulder buttons then and hold off doing so, you'll wind up not continuing the chain.

The Soulsborne games could probably use some refinements to the UI design, Monster Hunter World reworked the standard series UI much to it's benefit and gave customization options to players. There's been many instances where in the Soulsborne games that having quicker access to more than 1 item or allowing an inventory wheel would have probably made things go smoother.
Click to expand...
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree, for much the same reasons as what that above meme exemplifies. A creative pillar of Souls games is a certain sense of mystery and obtuseness, not a no-gamer-left-behind approach of 99% of Western studios. I'm not even saying either one is correct, but they start with different goals so it shouldn't be surprising that they arrive at different end-points.

Japanese devs are notorious for bad interface decisions -- the classic example being needless confirmation prompts that default to "No" -- but I'd argue that the UI of the Souls games is quite good. The menus are clear and easy to navigate, controller buttons are used logically and cover the most important use-cases, there are no extraneous or conflicting interface elements (such as a shortcut wheel you mentioned, which would fight with the no slowdown/pause rule and the very limited item/spell loadouts), and the actions doesn't constantly obscure the screen with particle and shader effects. It's clear and functional, if not the most diegetic interface.

In some ways the original Monster Hunter was much the same: a power-user's UI that did what it could with the original PSP. It could've been updated quicker once the portable's limitations were no longer a concern, but there was clearly a fear of alienating old fans. At least it didn't stagnate as long as the Dragon Quest series; now that's a valid example of the interface sticking to its roots because "that's just how things have always been done!"
 
Michael Jackson said:
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree, for much the same reasons as what that above meme exemplifies. A creative pillar of Souls games is a certain sense of mystery and obtuseness, not a no-gamer-left-behind approach of 99% of Western studios. I'm not even saying either one is correct, but they start with different goals so it shouldn't be surprising that they arrive at different end-points.

Japanese devs are notorious for bad interface decisions -- the classic example being needless confirmation prompts that default to "No" -- but I'd argue that the UI of the Souls games is quite good. The menus are clear and easy to navigate, controller buttons are used logically and cover the most important use-cases, there are no extraneous or conflicting interface elements (such as a shortcut wheel you mentioned, which would fight with the no slowdown/pause rule and the very limited item/spell loadouts), and the actions doesn't constantly obscure the screen with particle and shader effects. It's clear and functional, if not the most diegetic interface.

In some ways the original Monster Hunter was much the same: a power-user's UI that did what it could with the original PSP. It could've been updated quicker once the portable's limitations were no longer a concern, but there was clearly a fear of alienating old fans. At least it didn't stagnate as long as the Dragon Quest series; now that's a valid example of the interface sticking to its roots because "that's just how things have always been done!"
Click to expand...
Quests are objective based, there should be a purpose to their inclusion to start other than EXP or you wind up with shit just being filler. Quests should also play to the strengths of the game they're in and not be counter to what gameplay systems the main game uses or they will wind up annoying. Take the Racing questline in forbidden west, the game engine it's running on wasn't really made with racing specifically in mind. While Death Stranding used it for racing as well the results were still mixed because the courses were made from open world areas that were haphazardly boxed in. While it did give a proper reward, the whole structure was not something that was built upon from what the game established and went off into a whole different genre entirely.

Soulsborne games tend to have very poorly explained quests, quests with an involuntary failure state(such as NPCs dying through no fault of your own), or poorly done fetch quests or reputation grinds that require rare drops. They're not laid out in such a way where it signals to the player to finish them. Especially compared to how the easily laid out the main campaign is and the boss souls being a direct reward to be used to upgrade a spell or get you a better piece of gear. Most of the time NPCs just serve as hints as what to do or to signal where to go next(i.e. onion knight sitting outside the gate)

The quests in Soulsborne games are not usually the types of things that benefit the gameplay. It's not a roguelike or roguelite where if you fuck up you can wait for the next run in a few minutes to try again since these games are usually a few hours long. You can't save at will and the game will always save over immediately if you screw a step up. The more involved quests require you to talk to an NPC, follow to to Location A then to B while keeping them alive. In execution they tend to come off as very annoying or tedious, especially since the NPCs don't respawn and you can't retread back to an earlier step and try again.

Signifying a quest has begun and finishing it should also be in a similar vein to how the game gives feedback to when you die or you have defeated a boss. It makes your success more concrete and that what you didn't wasn't some developer afterthought.

The quest structure that does work for them is to go to Location X kill enemy and open up new area or a path. That's how the main campaign works and the side activities should not really deviate that much from it, heavily involved NPC interaction really isn't something the game is set up for. Exploration is a major part of the series and players who explore more should be rewarded properly compared to players who make a B line to the exit.
 
Last edited:
marvlouslie said:
This "halting sales in Russia" bullshit by corpos will ultimately backfire, because it won't have the effect they're hoping it'll have. All these naive little shit stains thinking that "Oh, it'll cause the populace to rise up and overthrow the government".

Bitch, have you EVER been to a Communist country?
Click to expand...
It's not gonna do anything at all. It's just a PR stunt. Corpos are terrified of how they'll be perceived if they don't do "something", now that everyone has to "stand with Ukraine".
And in 2 weeks they'll quietly lift the embargos again and nobody will even report on it because the next big thing will be in the news.
 
Hathungor said:
It's not gonna do anything at all. It's just a PR stunt. Corpos are terrified of how they'll be perceived if they don't do "something", now that everyone has to "stand with Ukraine".
And in 2 weeks they'll quietly lift the embargos again and nobody will even report on it because the next big thing will be in the news.
Click to expand...
Hard Leftists don't even buy the act anymore with activist corporate stances.

They were bitching the other week about Disney revealing new gay characters but Disney will still fund anti-gay legislation.

The political stance shit isn't for true believers or to silence the opposition. It's for normal people to make consuming easier to swallow.
 
Marissa Moira said:
Hard Leftists don't even buy the act anymore with activist corporate stances.

They were bitching the other week about Disney revealing new gay characters but Disney will still fund anti-gay legislation.

The political stance shit isn't for true believers or to silence the opposition. It's for normal people to make consuming easier to swallow.
Click to expand...

Normies don't fucking care about that shit when consuming. It's just for PR purposes more than anything.
 
Judge Dredd said:
Eldan Ring is doing well. Along with the usual game journos complaining about the difficulty, various hack devs have come out to complain about the "UX" and quest design.

View attachment 3053568

Which led to this meme.
View attachment 3053567

Some of the comments are good too.
View attachment 3053597
Click to expand...
Hammr said:
Unironically, even Jason Schreier likes Elden Ring a lot.

The most accessible From Software game.
View attachment 3053909 1
View attachment 3053908

View attachment 3053925 2

Willing to spend a bit of effort to play the game.
View attachment 3053924 3

View attachment 3053940 4
View attachment 3053939

Even him loves the post making fun at Ubisoft devs or (ex)Horizon devs about game design. Sadly, he deleted that tweet, probably because of "feeling bad" for siding with gamers.
View attachment 3053915
Up to you believe me or not on this one, but he did say something along the line with "main protagonist keeps talking to herself about hints doing platform puzzle".
The tweet search image will give you this.
View attachment 3053954
And a follow up reply about player character keep talking about hints along with UI telling you everything.
View attachment 3053987

Last one with Horizon games, not sure which game he talks about around Feb 2017, maybe Zelda BOTW?
View attachment 3053947
Click to expand...
Elden Ring is basically doing what Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice did when it comes to actually bring back how gaming is supposed to be played. The same people complaining about difficulty of this game would be the first to mock others for wanting to play on Easy Mode, while then seriously suggesting that everything is too easy when they play games.

TL;Dr - Elden Ring is doing exactly what it’s supposed or be doing, and I’m not mad at it in the slightest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom