Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

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Joker Baby said:
Imagine wanting your video game girls to be more hairy. What a fucking waste of processing power. Nothing new with lighting, physics, or AI, just more "detail" added to ugly women.
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Well that's not true, Raytracing is entirely having to do with lighting and reflections.

The big thing they pushed for this game is the mocap facial animations to the point where you can see wrinkles form in a ton of places when the characters are animated. So the faces do have a good bit of detail to them by default.
 
Marissa Moira said:
Classifying games as art has always been a one way ticket to retardville.

I mean you think John Romero was mentally masturbating over himself being considered the Davinci of video games while Doom was being made? Thinking every enemy placement was precious and every rough texture a masterwork in of itself?

Games have to be tested and be proven functional. Every other form of media does not really require this step and games will have stuff always altered and changed along the way because you're almost always dealing with a large team of people by every other standard who all have their own opinions. Like you think you need 16 people to author a book, that would be considered a lot.

I mean check out the ending
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MZlm2K66iCsSomeone call Martin Scorsese and tell him to take a hike, a wall of fucking text and a dead rabbit. Yes that's what solidified Doom the grand daddy of all FPS games.

The whole GAMES R ART argument came decades later after shit was already established. The whole art aspect is so people can remove the technical aspects of games and make them more approachable, but that's how you get your Neil Druckmans and David Cages because at that point you've reduced to games as just another form of moving pictures(and I'm not talking about Rush).

If you need games to be art that just shows you have a low opinion of what games already are.
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Autism unlimited

Ever heard of collaborative art? What is art by the way? Oh, you get to decide eh?
 
LikeRivenIRL said:
Ever heard of collaborative art? What is art by the way? Oh, you get to decide eh?
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I've played a good bit of games made by artists.

You get to drag a box with cumbersome controls across a desert for 45 minutes. They also do cardinal sins like introducing new game mechanics at the last level to deal with the same obstacles you dealt with before, but now the previous methods don't work.

They're both entirely different forms of mentality when you're dealing with programming and structure.
 
Marissa Moira said:
I've played a good bit of games made by artists.

You get to drag a box with cumbersome controls across a desert for 45 minutes. They also do cardinal sins like introducing new game mechanics at the last level to deal with the same obstacles you dealt with before, but now the previous methods don't work.
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You know there is such thing as bad art? Art isn't good by virtue of being art. 90% of art these days is shit and derivative. Dismissing the artistry of videogames is an argument that was already had and lost when the movies started to become popular.
 
LikeRivenIRL said:
You know there is such thing as bad art? Art isn't good by virtue of being art. 90% of art these days is shit and derivative. Dismissing the artistry of videogames is an argument that was already had and lost when the movies started to become popular.
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All I'm saying is that the art label is pointless and doesn't change the outcome, it just excuses the bad takes.

Modern Art has produced horrors and tedium beyond your wildest imaginations. Getting you to feel anything is the desired end result which is a very low bar to set.
 
Marissa Moira said:
All I'm saying is that the art label is pointless and doesn't change the outcome, it just excuses the bad takes.

Modern Art has produced horrors and tedium beyond your wildest imaginations. Getting you to feel anything is the desired end result which is a very low bar to set.
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I would say it's mostly pointless (and IMO that goes for a lot of garbage lit and film as well these days). Still, I think there are a few rare gems and they deserve to join the canon.
 
BananaSplit said:
I have my doubts about the overall performance of machine translators as they suffer from multiple issues, such as words written in katakana for example. Katakana is the second writing system (after hiragana and the third writing system being the infamous kanji) usually for foreign/borrowed words & names but it can also be used as a way to emphasize specific words like we would do with bold and italic formatting. Sometimes for a robotic speech effect too, see in embedded pic.
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while we are a long time away to have proper 1:1 translation on the fly (if ever), machine translations are still good enough for now to get the basic gist of what it's about. all it needs is a smartphone + camera or a simple copy&paste. for weebs it's even easier since they're already familiar with the language and it's quirks. the internet itself made it easier for people to find resources or someone to ask. like everything, there's probably someone somewhere who had the exact same question or issue they had, it's just a matter of finding it. if people can translate hentai this way, there's nothing stopping them to do it with eroge and other games.

in general what makes a language difficult is the vast amount of words you have to know and remember, grammar itself is usually much easier and faster to figure out, and that's where machine translation can be a big help. it also helps with japanese and other languages that are a lot of pretty pictures, which machine translation can turn into romanji as an inbetween step. to understand a videogame you also don't really need to know how to speak it (although that usually comes along the way, but often hampered because people are hesitant to talk in a foreign language since they think it makes them look stupid), reading and hearing is usually all it takes, if it even has voicelines.

BananaSplit said:
I do think too that more people are aware of localization hijinks these days, thanks to the Internet, but it doesn't change the fact that the damage in many affected japanese titles is already done. And I don't believe things will change much for the time being.
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you can always re-translate it (people already made fan-translations for stuff that has an official english translation), and since the tools for it get easier to use and better at it, the more people can do it. I mean telling anyone 15 years ago he could play some obscure weebshit and actually understand it somewhat, it would've blown his mind.
 
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quickthrowaway said:
One the whiners from the quote tweets about River City Girls Zero was Zack Davisson who famously follows what he calls, the Rubin Rule.



www.tcj.com

Confessions of a Manga Translator - The Comics Journal

A first-hand account of what a manga translator does, and doesn't do, and how.
www.tcj.com www.tcj.com

It really doesn't help against the xenophobia accusations that he admires yet another whitoid taking credit for a Japanese creator's works. I think it's not as big a deal in books because there's actual pushback. Rubin translated the first two books of Murakami's 1Q84 novels. The translator of the third book, Philip Gabriel, had this to say:
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Zack Davisson is a huge reason why the translator/localizer "community" probably deserves a thread. It's better detailed in the Weeb Wars thread (because of course it is), but the dude has an insane ego and has stated that his name should be placed just as front and center as the actual creator(s) of whatever he translates.
quickthrowaway said:
Hilariously, Rubin has a PhD in Japanese Literature and an early focus in his research on Japan's state censorship during the Meiji era. Meanwhile, he's taking credit for Murakami's hard work. Contrast this with Gabriel who actually taught in Japan and has general field of study in Japanese culture instead of just focusing on his Doctorate in Japanese or East Asian Literature. It's likely why Gabriel isn't such a fucking retard or arrogant when it comes to this subject.
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I'd still take this guy over Zack Davisson, who appears to have no special qualifiications at all aside from a certificate saying he has proficiency in Japanese yet acts like he's some literary giant to be recognized by all scholars as raising manga translation to an art instead of a hack writer translating pulpy Chinese comics.
 
Joker Baby said:
Imagine wanting your video game girls to be more hairy. What a fucking waste of processing power. Nothing new with lighting, physics, or AI, just more "detail" added to ugly women.
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uuh sweaty
you can't handle a real woman

lmao.png
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ZMOT said:
in general what makes a language difficult is the vast amount of words you have to know and remember, grammar itself is usually much easier and faster to figure out, and that's where machine translation can be a big help. it also helps with japanese and other languages that are a lot of pretty pictures, which machine translation can turn into romanji as an inbetween step. to understand a videogame you also don't really need to know how to speak it (although that usually comes along the way, but often hampered because people are hesitant to talk in a foreign language since they think it makes them look stupid), reading and hearing is usually all it takes, if it even has voicelines.
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Depends of the videogame though, a good proficiency of the language is actually required for text-heavy games such as japanese RPGs, simulations and visual novels. An action game like EDF can be played in japanese by virtually anyone on the other hand (although older titles of the franchise before 4.1 don't have visual cues on what kind of weapon you're selecting in the armory so it's a little bit tricky) and musous can enter that category as well. Rhythm games (IA-VT Colorful and older Taiko games were japanese-only for instance) are pretty much a no-brainer.

Japanese grammar is also a lot easier than, say, its french equivalent by comparison (Genki and Tae Kim are both the best learning materials for that btw). Kanji mainly relies on good visual memory but noticing radicals (the line strokes that build the kanji character) may greatly help to memorize, at least for my case. But kanji itself is still quite the challenge.
 
BananaSplit said:
uuh sweaty
you can't handle a real woman

View attachment 3002059
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those are the same people that think abby from TLOU is a real women, their opinion is pretty much worthless

BananaSplit said:
Depends of the videogame though, a good proficiency of the language is actually required for text-heavy games such as japanese RPGs, simulations and visual novels. An action game like EDF can be played in japanese by virtually anyone on the other hand (although older titles of the franchise before 4.1 don't have visual cues on what kind of weapon you're selecting in the armory so it's a little bit tricky) and musous can enter that category as well. Rhythm games (IA-VT Colorful and older Taiko games were japanese-only for instance) are pretty much a no-brainer.
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people have written texthooks and tools for those years ago. ofc it won't beat a proper translation by someone who knows what he's doing to get all the details, but it still beats understanding nothing at all, and the backends (whichever you choose, sometimes several at once) improve all the time. you can chose between a garbled machine translation or a shitty localization, which is more choice than a decade ago (and only one tries to shit up the source on purpose, so I know what I'd pick)

BananaSplit said:
Japanese grammar is also a lot easier than, say, its french equivalent by comparison (Genki and Tae Kim are both the best learning materials for that btw). Kanji mainly relies on good visual memory but noticing radicals (the line strokes that build the kanji character) may greatly help to memorize, at least for my case. But kanji itself is still quite the challenge.
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ironically I found french pretty simple, but then I'm an ESL who had to do years of latin in school, so maybe I just have a better foundation. english is a mess compared to that, don't even wanna imagine having to start from there.
 
My Summer Car is one of the few games that can be called art because it very accurately evokes a very niche feeling that only a tiny fraction of earths population have experienced and I don't care if fujoshi is accurately translated as long as they are kept away from A-Train and erotic Mahjong.
 
Smaug's Smokey Hole said:
My Summer Car is one of the few games that can be called art because it very accurately evokes a very niche feeling that only a tiny fraction of earths population have experienced and I don't care if fujoshi is accurately translated as long as they are kept away from A-Train and erotic Mahjong.
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You had companies like Maxis bring over A-train in the past, now considering all the buyouts companies like THQ/Embracer have more sim games than Maxis ever did.
 
Marissa Moira said:
You had companies like Maxis bring over A-train in the past, now considering all the buyouts companies like THQ/Embracer have more sim games than Maxis ever did.
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I am aware of that but Maxis doesn't exist though. I care deeply about my brethren in Embracer but they might not employ fujoshis from twitter to translate the A Train, that's my hunch.
 
Smaug's Smokey Hole said:
I am aware of that but Maxis doesn't exist though. I care deeply about my brethren in Embracer but they might not employ fujoshis from twitter to translate the A Train, that's my hunch.
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Most likely any game involving Trains will have heavy German influence if it's done by them. Even though it's technically a city management sim.
 
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