#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[soy_king]

I always think about this when I read that. It's even funnier when you remember Moore fucking hates capeshit and considers the MCU being popular to be a sign that most adults are manchildren.

That post perpetually reminds me that Dan Slott is no longer on twitter. Him deleting his twitter was a sad day for the Farms.

 

[RockVolnutt]

That post perpetually reminds me that Dan Slott is no longer on twitter. Him deleting his twitter was a sad day for the Farms.

It's for the best, nothing personal against Slott but he needed to be kept away because otherwise he'd be getting into internet fights instead of doing his job. If he left willingly then I could respect that he cares on some level unlike others in the industry who've spent years butting into things with "BuT IM TrAnS!?!?!???" and throwing absurd fits when someone inevitably says "And? That means nothing to me."

 

[AnOminous]

I always think about this when I read that. It's even funnier when you remember Moore fucking hates capeshit and considers the MCU being popular to be a sign that most adults are manchildren.

An SJW citing Alan Moore about anything is a fucking joke. Still, it shows a distinction between actual subversion of audience expectations and just putting out a shit product. Moore wrote about comics while writing a comic, which itself included a comic discussing the work it was contained in (Tales of the Black Freighter). Despite that, the message was fairly simple. What would someone who dressed up in tights and went out to fight crime actually be like if they existed in reality? The answer is fairly simple: a psycho.

Another reason he's pretty much diametrically opposed to what an SJW is (and ardently despises liberalism and especially American liberalism from a mostly anarchist perspective) is he was capable of portraying a character whose politics and opinions he hated, but do so in a sympathetic way. Specifically Rorschach, a psychotic vigilante near-fascist, the only character in the whole thing who never compromised his morals and would die for the truth, that is to say, an actual hero. Of course, he would also rather let the world be destroyed than save it with a lie. He was clearly insane.

But portraying a right wing fascist as actually being a human being would be pretty much unacceptable to nu-capeshit.

 

[One Man Bland]

I always think about this when I read that. It's even funnier when you remember Moore fucking hates capeshit and considers the MCU being popular to be a sign that most adults are manchildren.

Hipsters and SJWs have made it a point to misrepresent quotes from Alan Moore all the damn time whenever they run out of arguments as to why their methods are correct. They did the same thing when The Killing Joke had a milestone anniversary a few years, and now they seem to be doing it again to tell readers how wrong they are for not buying their comics.

The thing is, Alan Moore is saying this under the assumption that the comic you are writing is actually thought out and written well. He was arguing against the concept of comics being focused-group tested out the ass with an end product that's soulless garbage meant to draw in a specific demographic over a story whose characters and plot are tailored to explore specific themes and concepts.

Do these dumbasses really think Moore is impressed with trash like America or Squirrel Girl or Gay Ice Man or Slott's completely uninspired Spider-Man run? That shit's the exact problem Moore was talking about.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I always think about this when I read that. It's even funnier when you remember Moore fucking hates capeshit and considers the MCU being popular to be a sign that most adults are manchildren.

What Moore Meant: Comics should be a form of expression like any other artistic media, not soulless, uncultured pap for the weak-of-mind.
What Slott Thinks Moore Meant: I can make literally anything, no matter how shit, and it's great and awesome.

 

[Emperor Julian]

plus Alan doesnt dick around on the internet getting in autistic slapfights and conducts himself proffesionally with groups he obviously despises. It says lot that a man whose convinced he's a wizard, takes copious amounts of drugs and worships a 2nd century snake god has his shit together more than Dan slott.

 

[Gordon Cole]

Hipsters and SJWs have made it a point to misrepresent quotes from Alan Moore all the damn time whenever they run out of arguments as to why their methods are correct.

The fact they they use a FUCKING WHITE MALE as a crutch just adds another layer of irony. If anything, Alan Moore would tell them that they need to read James Joyce instead of Twitter.

DC had been repairing their rep with Rebirth under Geoff Jonhs, now that he left it’s mainly Didio and Lee who are running the direction of the company. A friend of mine is assblasted about the Batman wedding and didn’t understand why DC would copy Marvel, I only had to show him this and he then started sperging about N52:
View attachment 494198
Doesn’t help that Didio hasn’t learned his lesson from N52 being disliked by DC fans in general, accourding to this interview from the DC Nation (monthly circular) he want to bring back N52:
View attachment 494197
What my friend says lined up pretty well with Professor Geek:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7am5VsxjUvchttps://youtube.com/watch?v=NRgQHksKxjc

Ahh, it's always nice to see what Dan Didiot's up to now.

 

[Jub-Jub]

Allegations of 'Death threats' of course there is no proof shown at any point, just listen and believe
https://twitter.com/ericMesquivel/status/1017107957593436160 http://archive.is/rXjKx

Hmmm
https://twitter.com/ericMesquivel/status/1017562691295039488 http://archive.is/g3Jiw

I wonder if the allegations were an attempt to perform PR and get a bunch of articles written about a trash book, especially since comics media wont ask any questions. Also the book isn't out yet and it's already 50% off??? What a fucking failure, small discounts 10-15% for pre-orders can make sense but 50% before it's out? Congratulations now you have to move twice as many units and any potential buyers may consider the RRP to be $2 instead of $4

 

[Ineedahero]

I don't want this to devolve into regular comics spergery, but I also never pass up a chance to post this iconic meme.

His name is even alliterative like a comic book character!

 

[Maggots on a Train]

Allegations of 'Death threats' of course there is no proof shown at any point, just listen and believe
View attachment 494543https://twitter.com/ericMesquivel/status/1017107957593436160 http://archive.is/rXjKx

Hmmm
View attachment 494545https://twitter.com/ericMesquivel/status/1017562691295039488 http://archive.is/g3Jiw

I wonder if the allegations were an attempt to perform PR and get a bunch of articles written about a trash book, especially since comics media wont ask any questions. Also the book isn't out yet and it's already 50% off??? What a fucking failure, small discounts 10-15% for pre-orders can make sense but 50% before it's out? Congratulations now you have to move twice as many units and any potential buyers may consider the RRP to be $2 instead of $4

This crap cover reminds me of how much better off most comics were when only the coloring was done digitally, and the resolution of the line art was set at a piece of paper that could fit in a portfolio.

These people get an infinite resolution digital canvas and they fuck it up. They create so much empty space they don't know how to fill. The thin perfect digital line looks horrible when the art underneath is crummy. The higher the resolution, the more fiddly little details have to be added in, and they can't even succeed with the major ones. A thick line of ink would be their best friend.

 

[damian]

https://twitter.com/bclaymoore/status/1017626242403782657 https://archive.fo/taWRu

https://twitter.com/bclaymoore/status/1017626242403782657 https://archive.is/taWRu

https://twitter.com/bclaymoore/status/1017626112162172929 https://archive.is/h8SBQ

 

[One Man Bland]

This crap cover reminds me of how much better off most comics were when only the coloring was done digitally, and the resolution of the line art was set at a piece of paper that could fit in a portfolio.

These people get an infinite resolution digital canvas and they fuck it up. They create so much empty space they don't know how to fill. The thin perfect digital line looks horrible when the art underneath is crummy. The higher the resolution, the more fiddly little details have to be added in, and they can't even succeed with the major ones. A thick line of ink would be their best friend.

A lot of professional comic artists who prefer to just keep their head down and focus on their work still do a lot of their inking by hand. Not only because that's how a lot of them were taught/trained, but because in an industry where page rates are crap it's valuable to have some physical original inks that you can sell at cons for a couple hundred bucks to fans.

Though I don't think we'd really see that much of an improvement if the comic hipsters did switch to traditional inking. Some of them like Erica Henderson, the artist behind Squirrel Girl, already do their inking traditionally, and there's zero difference between it and their digital art.

The problem's that they're building from a crap foundation, not necessarily to tools they use.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

I always think about this when I read that. It's even funnier when you remember Moore fucking hates capeshit and considers the MCU being popular to be a sign that most adults are manchildren.

Well, when you have (psychopathic) manchildren like Bob Chipman practically giving hand jobs to Kevin Feige in their reviews, you have to wonder if Moore is onto something.

In regards to the difference between Marvel and DC, the latter mostly alienates the fans through their benign cluelessness rather than actively insult fans. Dan DiDio is more akin to a carnival barker trying to sell his wares to as wide as audience he can whereas Tom Broovert is a nasty pile of excrement who wants Marvel to appeal exclusively to a small "community" of SJWs who don't even buy the books in large enough numbers. The main reason why Batman #50 was so bad--as I see it--is because DC hyped it up as some status quo-changing event that ended with the predictable "Bruce Wayne needs to be miserable to be Batman" canard. It is still preferable to the SJW garbage like Iceman, Unstoppable Wasp, and America Marvel shoves down our throats.

However, I must admit that it is not as clear cut as I hear Jason Aaron's Avengers is pretty good and DC still have some books like Flash, the Green Lantern titles, Hawkman, and the Terrifics that I like to read. Hell, Bendis on Superman has not been a complete disaster though Man of Steel was woefully underwhelming compared to the Tomasi and Jurgens runs.

I'm still puzzled as to why they gave G. Willow Wilson of Ms. Marvel infamy Wonder Woman.

 

[damian]

I'm still puzzled as to why they gave G. Willow Wilson of Ms. Marvel infamy Wonder Woman

This might possibly make a comeback :

 

[weirdMcGee]

What the heck...

 

[BlueSpark]

Rorschach, a psychotic vigilante near-fascist

How was Rorschach a fascist? He was an anarchist, if anything.

 

[AnOminous]

How was Rorschach a fascist? He was an anarchist, if anything.

He'd arguably be a hard libertarian, but he detests degeneracy in all its forms too much. He considers himself the authority and rejects the authority of the state, as it's an illegitimate state that has allowed all this to come into being. He's based on The Question, one of Ditko's, a self-professed Objectivist like Ditko himself, and is actually a parody of him.

He is not an anarchist in the way V was, though, and I think his affinity with the clearly hard right Comedian and his tactics speaks for itself.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

An SJW citing Alan Moore about anything is a fucking joke. Still, it shows a distinction between actual subversion of audience expectations and just putting out a shit product. Moore wrote about comics while writing a comic, which itself included a comic discussing the work it was contained in (Tales of the Black Freighter). Despite that, the message was fairly simple. What would someone who dressed up in tights and went out to fight crime actually be like if they existed in reality? The answer is fairly simple: a psycho.

Another reason he's pretty much diametrically opposed to what an SJW is (and ardently despises liberalism and especially American liberalism from a mostly anarchist perspective) is he was capable of portraying a character whose politics and opinions he hated, but do so in a sympathetic way. Specifically Rorschach, a psychotic vigilante near-fascist, the only character in the whole thing who never compromised his morals and would die for the truth, that is to say, an actual hero. Of course, he would also rather let the world be destroyed than save it with a lie. He was clearly insane.

But portraying a right wing fascist as actually being a human being would be pretty much unacceptable to nu-capeshit.

What's interesting is that Alan Moore is smart enough to not present his political views as the "right" views. Take V for Vendetta, he could have very easily made that comic a wankfest about how great anarchism is and why it's sooo much better than fascism guys, but he didn't really take that road. V may be an anarchist, but he's also a literal fucking terrorist and has a knack for mentally and emotionally manipulating weaker people into doing his bidding. In contrast, you have the fascists who are mostly just regular people, and, in the case of Adam Susan and Eric Finch, are actually sympathetic. And Moore intended to do that. He wanted to have the readers not sure who to root for. And that's why V for Vendetta is smarter than most political fiction; Moore doesn't present anarchism as the ultimate political system, and he doesn't portray the opposing side as irredeemable strawmen. It's all different shades of gray.

Contrast that with everything Marvel has been doing. It's all "right side of history" shit with zero subtlety or complexity. If a nu-Marvel writer were ever to write something similar to V for Vendetta, it would be a ridiculously idealistic view of anarchism that conquers over the eeeevil fascists.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

What's interesting is that Alan Moore is smart enough to not present his political views as the "right" views. Take V for Vendetta, he could have very easily made that comic a wankfest about how great anarchism is and why it's sooo much better than fascism guys, but he didn't really take that road. V may be an anarchist, but he's also a literal fucking terrorist and has a knack for mentally and emotionally manipulating weaker people into doing his bidding. In contrast, you have the fascists who are mostly just regular people, and, in the case of Adam Susan and Eric Finch, are actually sympathetic. And Moore intended to do that. He wanted to have the readers not sure who to root for. And that's why V for Vendetta is smarter than most political fiction; Moore doesn't present anarchism as the ultimate political system, and he doesn't portray the opposing side as irredeemable strawmen. It's all different shades of gray.

Contrast that with everything Marvel has been doing. It's all "right side of history" shit with zero subtlety or complexity. If a nu-Marvel writer were ever to write something similar to V for Vendetta, it would be a ridiculously idealistic view of anarchism that conquers over the eeeevil fascists.

Correct. V For Vendetta, you knew what the overall good thing was, but you couldn't escape from the fact that a lot of people were going to get fucked, good and hard, getting to it. Even the best of intentions can have collateral damage and unintended consequences.

 

[AnOminous]

Contrast that with everything Marvel has been doing. It's all "right side of history" shit with zero subtlety or complexity. If a nu-Marvel writer were ever to write something similar to V for Vendetta, it would be a ridiculously idealistic view of anarchism that conquers over the eeeevil fascists.

Arguably, the movie is an example of exactly what American SJW culture would do to Alan Moore, although ironically, current American comics would do it even worse. Alan Moore hated it (no surprise as he hates every single adaptation of his work) largely because it reflected a watered-down American liberalism, which he detests. It doesn't entirely eliminate any moral ambiguity in V, but it certainly underplays some of the true malevolence of the character and portrays him as a hero against the evil right wing, endorsing his ends-justifies-the-means tactics.

The book didn't do that.

Anyway, Moore is an example to compare the shit that is Marvel and DC to to put the lie to the nonsense that consumer dissatisfaction with shit content is because of some nonexistent wave of Nazism flooding over the landscape. Moore has consistently appealed to people of all political viewpoints, including those that probably completely disagree with his personal politics, which are oddball enough probably nobody shares them all.

However, his content has consistently been top-notch, and instead of relentlessly and mindlessly flogging some dumb political doctrine that isn't even his own (the SJW way is to conform mindlessly to the shared delusions du jour), he goes out of his way to portray even the villains as actual understandable characters, to the extent he even has villains at all.

Compare to nu-Marvel "right side of history" bullshit. To call the characterizations in this shit cartoonish is an insult to cartoons. Garfield has more moral ambiguity to it. Of course, to ideologues, ambiguity is itself evil.