UK British News Megathread - aka CWCissey's news thread

https://news.sky.com/story/row-over-new-greggs-vegan-sausage-rolls-heats-up-11597679 (https://archive.ph/5Ba6o)

A heated row has broken out over a move by Britain's largest bakery chain to launch a vegan sausage roll.

The pastry, which is filled with a meat substitute and encased in 96 pastry layers, is available in 950 Greggs stores across the country.

It was promised after 20,000 people signed a petition calling for the snack to be launched to accommodate plant-based diet eaters.


But the vegan sausage roll's launch has been greeted by a mixed reaction: Some consumers welcomed it, while others voiced their objections.

View image on Twitter


spread happiness@p4leandp1nk
https://twitter.com/p4leandp1nk/status/1080767496569974785

#VEGANsausageroll thanks Greggs

7
10:07 AM - Jan 3, 2019
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Cook and food poverty campaigner Jack Monroe declared she was "frantically googling to see what time my nearest opens tomorrow morning because I will be outside".

While TV writer Brydie Lee-Kennedy called herself "very pro the Greggs vegan sausage roll because anything that wrenches veganism back from the 'clean eating' wellness folk is a good thing".

One Twitter user wrote that finding vegan sausage rolls missing from a store in Corby had "ruined my morning".

Another said: "My son is allergic to dairy products which means I can't really go to Greggs when he's with me. Now I can. Thank you vegans."

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pg often@pgofton
https://twitter.com/pgofton/status/1080772793774624768

The hype got me like #Greggs #Veganuary

42
10:28 AM - Jan 3, 2019
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TV presenter Piers Morgan led the charge of those outraged by the new roll.

"Nobody was waiting for a vegan bloody sausage, you PC-ravaged clowns," he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Morgan later complained at receiving "howling abuse from vegans", adding: "I get it, you're all hangry. I would be too if I only ate plants and gruel."

Another Twitter user said: "I really struggle to believe that 20,000 vegans are that desperate to eat in a Greggs."

"You don't paint a mustach (sic) on the Mona Lisa and you don't mess with the perfect sausage roll," one quipped.

Journalist Nooruddean Choudry suggested Greggs introduce a halal steak bake to "crank the fume levels right up to 11".

The bakery chain told concerned customers that "change is good" and that there would "always be a classic sausage roll".

It comes on the same day McDonald's launched its first vegetarian "Happy Meal", designed for children.

The new dish comes with a "veggie wrap", instead of the usual chicken or beef option.

It should be noted that Piers Morgan and Greggs share the same PR firm, so I'm thinking this is some serious faux outrage and South Park KKK gambiting here.

 

[An Idle Observer]

It's a tough epistemic environment we're arguing this in, because the mainstream, acceptable position is positive on immigration to such an extent that its positions are obviously retarded. Thus, lots of people do notice the retardation, but when the alternate viewpoint of nativism and racial/ethnic nationalism (for whites of various kinds) is so suppressed, while it seems obvious the pendulum should swing back that way, it's hard to envisage what that will look like and how far should it go. If you just "no, but" every argument for immigration and go full nativist you can look a bit of a clown; but on the other hand, it can be hard to know whether you've actually managed to deprogram yourself from such a concerted messaging campaign as the one we're under ("we" are obviously under different campaigns; yours seems much more oppressive, but over here I bet a sizable chunk of people who are aware of it at all think that Emma Lazarus poem is in the Constitution).

I mean I'll go as far to second this. We want to avoid blanket contrarianism at the end of the day. That's stupid by default no matter what, it's not an ideology and just makes it easy to lead us by our noses off whatever cliff the relevant elite or budding Stalin looking to put us up against the wall wants.

We lack a plumb line. The amount of censorship and ideas not being considered pretty much means that there's no way to get a logical pH test on a lot of ideas, and I'd go even further that the greatest harm communism ever did was monopolize the conversation around it or whatever derivative idea it wanted to co-opt. Not only does pretty much no idea exist without that trying to touch it nowadays, either to grab it or push it away, I genuinely think it's prevented entire discussions of political theory from ever happening because Carl the Commie has to tell everyone about his ushanka ideology and we have to talk about it for everything. Big reason I don't think communism won the power it did, it was the other way around, anti-communists consistently ceded ground in their ignorance of how to root the problem out.

Personally, individualism rules the roost for me. Anyone can be a nigger and Dirty Harry's correct in hating pretty much every slur for a race you can. That's why you gatekeep the fucking country and don't throw the damn doors open like Europe's been want to do, but that's a bit of Monday Night Quarterbacking now innit?

If they go full nativist and start kicking people out just because of something like their ethnicity, I won't like it, but I'll get it. Most people forgot that this is a valid position to hold. "I don't have to like it, but I can understand why it's happening." Europe in general is hurting and England's dealing with problems dating back to the immediate end of WWII if not even longer ago. (Whatever happened to Britain's thriving construction industry? Councils instituted by the 1940's Labour party!) If they go with mass, arguably reckless (Not necessarily by me mind you) remigration policies, I'll be there talking about it whether agreeing or not, admittedly as a Yank, but that's the thing. I'd still want to talk about it. I'm not gonna want to cut someone off who's just arguing passionately, and I get there's a lot of passion.

I guess my overall point here is that this discussion is just very polluted now. Not by anyone here, but shitlibbery let to go on for this long has just dumped loads of toxic waste everywhere and we gotta pick through it. Shit fucking sucks, and I only half joke that England just makes me depressed.

Thanks.

My attitude is 'live and let live' - as Josh @Null says 'we cannot be divided on here'.

I don't believe in fighting and when I'm wrong (as in when I probably go a bit too far with personal thoughts or revealing too much) I'm happy to reign it in.

This isn't my forum, it's ours - Josh made it, but he needs us and we need him.

Even when I get @Mound Dweller giving me my daily rainbows of optimism, I smile and think 'well, at least we can agree to disagree - I might be an optimist, others might be pessimists or be of the opinion that 'nothing ever happens' and that's great.

This forum is way better than most - it is truly the last bastion of free speech and needs all of us to unite against the real enemies of the world.

Pour one out for this nigga spitting facts. More of this in the world please. We all could use more of this in the world. We don't have to all agree on everything, but can we all at least agree to have a beer with each other?

OK cut me some slack when I say no. My first beer was a Bud Light and my taste buds were ruined. I'll take a shot of Jaeger or some Polish blackberry brandy on the rocks.

Might take a break from the farms and come back in a few days when I'm not arguing with pedophiles blaming our children for fighting off pimps.

I won't judge. Sometimes you just need to step back and relax. Take care.

 

[Crunkle]

Trust @Gregis to write a lovely post.

I don't want to get into dick-measuring and say "well I've done more for the cause than you", because my particular skills managed to produce that particular set of propaganda and data. I really don't disagree with @Kofi Drinka at his core beliefs, I just get frustrated with glowing posts and bad OPSEC because I don't want to see people in this thread actually arrested and then put on a pedestal as the stereotypical KF user, complete with mugshot. The people in charge will happily ruin your life for no reason.

BREAKING: KiwiFarms sues UK government as one user arrested on terrorism charges

I've submitted stuff to it

Thank you very much! Reports have kept that tool going and I know some people on Xitter are now using it to get information about crimes so they can engagement bait. Don't really care as long as the information is being disseminated.

I've got multiple people who have accounts on the admin part of the website who review new reports all of the time. I built the code but it's definitely moderated by a group and not just me.

I'd like to think in some way I encouraged him to get it off the ground

Good to clear the air, though. Mummy and daddy have made up. I just hope you guys don't find out about the curry in my fridge or my credibility will be totally destroyed.

 

[Failed Lurker]

... I'm not arguing with pedophiles blaming our children for fighting off pimps

Notice how quiet they went after the Norwegian "non offending" paedophile was lifted too, article about was posted in A+N yesterday or day before and imagine 99% of all of the site agree those fucks need execution, regardless of race or creed.

TPD everywhere

 

[Kofi Drinka]

Good to clear the air, though. Mummy and daddy have made up. I just hope you guys don't find out about the curry in my fridge or my credibility will be totally destroyed.

We're all got a naan bread skeleton or two in our closet.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Ah yes, the sneering pretentious English attitude that is ultimately responsible for the elected officials we've had to deal with for last 30 years that's led to this mess and you wonder why we go ABE at football tournaments, cunt see you make plenty of these type of comments yet probably voted for the Uniparty at all times. Again look at Lowe's map, red all over dahn sawf, ain't just Dundee that's a shithole is it, seeing as you post about your experiences across different regions, nearly as bad as the fucking migrants

I also find it funny how you get upset about the English superiority. Sorry you're unable to run your own country. If we're a bunch of Labour voting twats (lets not discuss how Scotland also votes for Labour and the SNP as Labour lite constantly) then what does it say about the jocks? Us English softies rule your pathetic little country and you can't even take it back from us. If you got out of English rule you would jump into bed with Brussels and ask them to rule your bog consumed country. You are a slave class and you know it deep down inside. Even your folk heroes are played by Mel Gibson because no Scotsman was up to the task of playing him on screen.

@Kofi Drinka

Wow, I can't take it, yet you post massive comment using Rab C Nesbit, you guys need subtitles to get half the jokes plus message on my profile too? Doth protest so much? Just a bit of gentle ribbing, take it easy, scum are scum wherever again, decisions made in pretty much one place and it ain't up here

. If we're a bunch of Labour voting twats (lets not discuss how Scotland also votes for Labour and the SNP as Labour lite constantly

Again, uni party thinking, independence under SNP wouldn't be with the fact joining EU, oh will break up the UK then two minutes later used the same reason to leave EU for Brexit, which really worked out didn't it so yeah I'm pretty pissed that we can't rule our own shit cause who wouldn't? Still numbers game in the set up, only 57 Scottish MPs go to Westminster, over 600 in your neck of the woods who keep going same way cause muh pension, pissing everything away so if you do rule it, sort it fucking out mate or take accountability for being big part of the shit show

This is typical Scottish bullshit mate. The Scottish literally blame everything on England no matter what. It's what they've always done and always will do. It's always the same story whenever there's a problem. Even when Scotland fails to set up it's own systems and then falls back on the English systems they blame the English for it.

Wasn't the leader of the SNP a Muslim wanting to stop the country being too white? Is that the English fault too? Strange independent party you have there. Looks like Labour Dawh sahn. Scottish independence means replacing every last white person with a Muslim and adding Blasphemy laws against Islam.

I went to a Scottish wedding once. I couldn't tell the bride from groom. Both were wearing skirts and carrying hand bangs.

Maybe if you weren't used to wearing a burka, would be easier to tell the difference...or did the dancing with your bells and sticks cause some brain damage? Also true females don't have facial hair that you're probably accustomed too...

Come on lads. The Yanks are watching.


Jamie MacDonald 'Fight! Fight! Fight!'.mp4

Carry on.

 

[An Idle Observer]

I don't want to get into dick-measuring and say "well I've done more for the cause than you", because my particular skills managed to produce that particular set of propaganda and data. I really don't disagree with @Kofi Drinka at his core beliefs, I just get frustrated with glowing posts and bad OPSEC because I don't want to see people in this thread actually arrested and then put on a pedestal as the stereotypical KF user, complete with mugshot.

I get this. I tend to hate fedposting and its sister in blackpilling because it generally just isn't a productive use of anyone's time and it just clogs the pipeline for actually meaningful shit. It's hard to piecemeal it out lately at times sadly.

Notice how quiet they went after the Norwegian "non offending" paedophile was lifted too, article about was posted in A+N yesterday or day before and imagine 99% of all of the site agree those fucks need execution, regardless of race or creed.

I didn't notice much out of some reaction farming for calling it the free space on our 2025 Bingo cards... "Self-admitted pedo does a pedo."

We're all got a naan bread skeleton or two in our closet.

No.

I have curry powder in my spice cabinet.

 

[Muad'Dick]

The right-wingers aligned against a common enemy have some small (or pretty fuckin' huge) divergence in ideology?
Say it ain't so!

No. It goes way beyond that.

Its the people. Its going to take the death of a couple of generations before this even begins to get fixed and by that time it'll be too late.

Its one thing passively watching this unfold on YouTube or via what scant media coverage it gets, its an entirely different beast when you see it first hand.

I don't think there is a political solution for this, but you need at least some knowledge of rhetoric and how human psychology works to galvanize what support you have. When you constantly argue from the point of weakness you're fucked. All of the energy being expended here is to try and justify their position when confronted by leftists. The normies haven't seemed to grasp that it doesn't matter what you say to these people. You will always be racist. You will always be "nazis". You will always be evil. These people should be fucking crushed. Not reasoned with.

 

[Failed Lurker]

I get this. I tend to hate fedposting and its sister in blackpilling because it generally just isn't a productive use of anyone's time and it just clogs the pipeline for actually meaningful shit. It's hard to piecemeal it out lately at times sadly.

I didn't notice much out of some reaction farming for calling it the free space on our 2025 Bingo cards... "Self-admitted pedo does a pedo."

No.

I have curry powder in my spice cabinet.

There were quite a few of them, one in particular with pink triangle and history of defending the MAP uni paper that was published a few years ago, who were constantly posting on the Dundee girl story, in this thread and the UK discontent going hard defence of the foreigner and blatant denigration of the girl with the blade for almost 3 days from Wednesday then haven't been seen since

 

[Chandiler Savant]

they won't win an election with a few bullet points on a website

Spoiler: Wealdstone Raider would be proud

I've been curious about that party for a while. You'll see ADUK shilled in twitter comment sections or youtube livestreams. Usually because Reform is not "right" enough #rupertlowestyle. Again this begins to create some type of infighting on whose ideology is radical enough. One of the things that is unfortunately important in politics is memorability and adapting to the public. In which Reform uses their 'brand' with Nige to engage through different social media outlets. He also seems more approachable due to his memeable nature (big chungus), and invites younger speakers to help gather new solutions (big if true).

Just looked up ADUK youtube channel, and the production is significantly reducing the quality of their message. It's got GCSE editing from 2008.

There is another video of a speaker that isn't Habib:

- vertical video format on a landscape - poor phone mic quality. I know its nit-picking but if you want to manifest a larger audience/voting pool, you will need to invest in a proper mic and film properly. These all add up when forming authority online, boomers simply sift it out, but those otherwise may be put off by the amateur style.

TLDR: They've got no fans, they've got no ground.

 

[Sheep King]

I know my previous stance on "deport all browns" was pretty tepid but that was approaching from a point of practicality.

The truth is as our balsam-hating fellow reminded us cultures are living things. Even "the good ones" are competing with the native ways, because it's the nature of living things to grow and expand. The truth of multiculturalism is regardless of how good or bad people are, most (including me) have very little interest in other cultures. They always self-segregate. And when more aggressive cultures arrive over here the only way the native one wins is by evolving to match them. As shit kicks off it's clear that's what's happening and frankly I don't like it. I want to live in a country of people who are open and respectful, but frankly those are the traits that die off real quick when you have to start competing.

Even if we successfully reverse the trend and native Brits maintain 90 or even 95% demographics, I don't want my kids to have to worry about that. I don't want whites having to train themselves to outbreed and outfight browns just to hold on to "good ones".

I'm still not sure quite where I fall but I think the only answer is that in addition to getting rid of a lot of them, we need a government that always prioritises native interests. Prioritise teaching British history, literature, music, salute the flag daily, whatever. Groups that form enclaves should be bullied and discriminated against at every step. This isn't the Middle Ages anymore, if they don't like it they can leave. At least that way if we have to keep fighting this stupid cultural tug of war, we stack the deck in our favour, until they ideally get sick of it and piss off.

 

[Crunkle]

Spoiler: Wealdstone Raider would be proud

I've been curious about that party for a while. You'll see ADUK shilled in twitter comment sections or youtube livestreams. Usually because Reform is not "right" enough #rupertlowestyle. Again this begins to create some type of infighting on whose ideology is radical enough. One of the things that is unfortunately important in politics is memorability and adapting to the public. In which Reform uses their 'brand' with Nige to engage through different social media outlets. He also seems more approachable due to his memeable nature (big chungus), and invites younger speakers to help gather new solutions (big if true).

Just looked up ADUK youtube channel, and the production is significantly reducing the quality of their message. It's got GCSE editing from 2008. https://youtube.com/watch?v=8wcEVCR3krA
There is another video of a speaker that isn't Habib:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=49rYDBBrMms - vertical video format on a landscape - poor phone mic quality. I know its nit-picking but if you want to manifest a larger audience/voting pool, you will need to invest in a proper mic and film properly. These all add up when forming authority online, boomers simply sift it out, but those otherwise may be put off by the amateur style.

TLDR: They've got no fans, they've got no ground.

Hmm.

I did spot this on their website:

The first 30,000 members to sign up will receive a discounted rate of £10 for their first year of membership.

Before we formally apply to the Electoral Commission to register as a political party, we need your support. We need 30,000 people to join us, who are fully committed to making real change happen.


When we achieve this milestone, Ben Habib will himself donate £100,000 to Advance UK and we will apply to the Electoral Commission for full party status. Ben is not in this for personal gain. He is in it to advance the UK putting his faith in the British people and his money where his mouth is. He stands shoulder to shoulder with you.

It just stinks like a Tommy Robinson grifter thing to me. They've got 22k members and each of them pay £10 annually. Not counting donations and social media income, they make at least £220k per year.

Would've thought the white saviour himself (Ben Habib) would commit and put in 100k of his own money if it's making that much back.

 

[An Idle Observer]

The truth of multiculturalism is regardless of how good or bad people are, most (including me) have very little interest in other cultures. They always self-segregate. And when more aggressive cultures arrive over here the only way the native one wins is by evolving to match them.

What is culture?

No seriously. Because I'd argue that Britain doesn't have one culture. Shitlibbery's existence cropped up from an entirely secondary culture that poisoned the conversation, and I don't agree whatsoever that you can divide this entirely by ethnic lines. Such is the dastardly nature of Gramscian subversion, it exists explicitly to denigrate the host culture and encourage divisions like this until the communists can wrap up enough of a coalition to BS their way in. Importing jeets, ragheads, and niggers is useful to their interests as they all constitute a lumpenprole class with which to coalition with.

It's why I really don't buy the whole ethno-centric culture thing as much more than a coincidental development. Communism's growth, spread, and theory clearly operates on and succeeded at being a culture unto itself wholly divorced from that, and it throws a gigantic monkey wrench into any culture's semblance of self-preservation since it took the keys to most, if not all, of a lot of the West's capacities to defend themselves culturally. Do we need to actually reduce it all down to unga-bunga beat on not-tribe or is the issue more that the damned commies broke the cultural shit that allowed our nations to rise above petty squabbling and conquer the world? I lean towards the latter personally, and it's a massive reason this whole conversation is just poisoned from the outset by the third party commies and shit-libs who kept this conversation from properly happening decades ago.

 

[Gregis]

We lack a plumb line. The amount of censorship and ideas not being considered pretty much means that there's no way to get a logical pH test on a lot of ideas, and I'd go even further that the greatest harm communism ever did was monopolize the conversation around it or whatever derivative idea it wanted to co-opt. Not only does pretty much no idea exist without that trying to touch it nowadays, either to grab it or push it away, I genuinely think it's prevented entire discussions of political theory from ever happening because Carl the Commie has to tell everyone about his ushanka ideology and we have to talk about it for everything. Big reason I don't think communism won the power it did, it was the other way around, anti-communists consistently ceded ground in their ignorance of how to root the problem out.

justsomecicada pointed out how a lot of those revolutions didn't win out, and the united Francoist one did, but it made me think, did they really in the end? Your point here captures what I was thinking. I know around here it's not uncommon to see the take that the better side won the Spanish Civil War, or even that Franco was the best Spain could reasonably expect; but in the wider discourse, today I think it's much more common to just chuck him in the fascist bin or the dictator bin and write him off. These examples from the past seem to just get used to argue for more communism; at least Spain's current governance doesn't seem particularly based (or competent).

I do think that besides winning elections and moving countries in the right direction, there needs to be an intellectual movement to go alongside it. Leftism-by-default and communist apologia have run rampant, and our academia and media are just poisoned. It's heartening to some extent how much its adherents have used sheer force to enforce consensus and suppress dissenting opinions, it makes that leftist ideological structure appear ripe for collapse; but also, they do just successfully suppress a lot of thought! There are some good voices pointing out the lies and contradictions that underpin our consensus reality, but we also need to have people building the positive vision, and perhaps resurrect/rehabilitate some of the thinkers of the past. Stuff like "place and history can be important to a people", including white ones that biased academics don't call "marginalized", has been shut out of polite discourse for so long people find it jarring to hear it argued.

I'm going to throw in a random, semi-relevant thought I had, just because I haven't gotten the chance to deploy in a real argument yet. When neo-whatevers argue that countries like Britain are made by waves of immigrants, i.e. Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans, that's true enough. The country nor the ethnicity was created by a pure, untouched lineage. However, all of those waves were waves of conquest or at least colonization. An ethnogenesis between various British and Indian peoples could theoretically be possible; but its history would be written in blood, and I truly believe it is impossible to skip this step. If you accept that, you need a really good reason to argue for the blood, or else you should not be allowed to cite Norman "immigration" to argue for importing anyone; in fact, conquerors do not need anyone to argue on their behalf. Mere immigration can lead to some degree of assimilation, but the resulting end point will be always somewhere in between the two peoples, and only the weight of a massive numbers advantage for the natives ensures the endpoint stays recognizable, or that assimilation occurs at all. And if you do just import hordes even assimilation is not guaranteed (let alone ethnogenesis), but there will be blood regardless.

 

[Justsomecicada]

Great post gregis, I think relative to the other movements yes they won

 

[An Idle Observer]

There are some good voices pointing out the lies and contradictions that underpin our consensus reality, but we also need to have people building the positive vision, and perhaps resurrect/rehabilitate some of the thinkers of the past. Stuff like "place and history can be important to a people", including white ones that biased academics don't call "marginalized", has been shut out of polite discourse for so long people find it jarring to hear it argued.

I've got two for you right here. One of which is aimed at something you say later, the other is something a bit more idle that might give added context to my comment prior to this.

The first is that geographic determinism as a theory is put into the same basket as genetic/bloodline determinism by a lot of people and now's a good time to really take issue with that. I've been called racist before for arguing that Sub-Saharan Africa, as a subcontinent, is the worst place to have your civilization try to start out with between few low-tech resources, no pack animals, natural features that pretty much lock any cro-magnons into that one little corner of the world, so on and so forth. You can't really do shit there until your technology is "pre-started," we'll say, and I've explicitly framed this as a matter of, "If you take the Ibos and Saxons and swap them around, the Ibos would be rolling in with Maxim guns vs. the Saxon spears," so no racism is really able to be derived. So while I do disagree with you thinking ethnogenesis requires a blood step to it, it's because of this whole entire other aspect of the conversation that I barely see anyone talking about in any conceptual idea and how that can shape a society. Especially seeing as how conquest tends to be what happens when one civilization gits gud enough to storm in and subjugate, with a lot of quirks that come after depending on how the natives handle it. Britain, read fully English as opposed to Scottish or Irish, is ironically one of the better ones that have handled a conquest when it came to the Saxons. Back in ye olde Roman times, the Celts and Britons were northern niggers, at least from the POV of someone like Hadrian, and getting from that to a small Renaissance in Scotland in the 1800's begs a lot of hard to answer questions.

The second is that communism for far too long has enjoyed having a monopoly on what I'll call the "Liberalism 2.0" argument. They allege that liberalism failed to live up to its promises, and so it needs an update to fill them, with communism as the solution. (It is a wrong solution, but answering "42" to the question "What does 2+2 equal?" is still a solution.) I have noticed no other theory save maybe fascism even try arguing this, but I already mentioned communism. Most liberal critics I've seen just assume it's not salvageable because the commies ID'ed a legit problem, but the more I looked at it, the less sense that made. Yeah, it has problems, but has no one ever noticed that Locke died over a century before Marx was a sperm in his daddy's ballsack and that kinda means Locke couldn't really defend his own theory from that? That led me down a bit of a rabbit hole to where it's my honest opinion now that Marx argued a liberal strawman with one good point and no one's called out the rest of the strawman ever since. That led me to trying to nurse a pet theory for now that liberal theory isn't broken per se, Marx forced it to be far more than it ever should be as a political philosophy and in the 250 or so years since he penned the Communist Manifesto, no one's ever bothered to try pointing this out. When I realized that, a lot of shit just hit like a ton of bricks, and I kinda realized the commie logic had become so pervasive, even the most ardent critics of communism were still using communist logic in their rejection of communism and liberalism! At that point, loads of standard talking points on this genuinely didn't make sense anymore, since it can't really be argued Gramsci and his disciples weren't in fact allowed to make just about every western nation completely buck-broken to letting in lumpenproles as they had deconstructed the very things that made cultures have immune systems to negative cultural ideas. And since that fact happened, what does that say about culture as an idea given they were allowed to make a culture of self-destruction, promulgate it, and make it the standard operating procedure for liberal nations right out from under them? All evidence for me points to a complete failure to address this logic trap way back when, leaving all the migrants are just a football the commies deliberately want everyone focusing on instead of the fact they helped engineer the whole system we're currently complaining about. It's not that the migrants aren't the issue, it's that culture by itself won't answer for who let open the floodgates unless you have some other non-geographic, non-ethnic culture that was milling around explicitly trying to ruin things and will still ruin things even if you can engage in remigration.

Neither of these things I find get a lot of discussion to them, even though both strike at such a foundational level of making a political philosophy they really should be. The denigration of anything but Blank Slate Theory has just let ethno-centric worldviews get a monopoly on the counterculture, even though you can absolutely construct theories that rely on neither to operate.

 

[Mound Dweller]

immigration

It's also important to note that modern mass migration is a wholly new phenomena, and that it isn't at all accurate to compare millions of continentally divergent lineages overtaking anciently present ones, to compare it to historical examples of elite class based replacement by tiny % sized ruling minorities (the low end for the Anglo Saxon settlement was a ridiculously low 40k when I was taught it at school) is wholly dishonest.
For comparison, the barbarian invasions of late antiquity? A few 100s of thousands in total across centuries, a ruling caste replacement yes but not a wholesale genetic turnover like what we're seeing the danger of now, it's truly unprecedented.

 

[Made In Wales]

Spoiler: Wealdstone Raider would be proud

I've been curious about that party for a while. You'll see ADUK shilled in twitter comment sections or youtube livestreams. Usually because Reform is not "right" enough #rupertlowestyle. Again this begins to create some type of infighting on whose ideology is radical enough. One of the things that is unfortunately important in politics is memorability and adapting to the public. In which Reform uses their 'brand' with Nige to engage through different social media outlets. He also seems more approachable due to his memeable nature (big chungus), and invites younger speakers to help gather new solutions (big if true).

Just looked up ADUK youtube channel, and the production is significantly reducing the quality of their message. It's got GCSE editing from 2008. https://youtube.com/watch?v=8wcEVCR3krA
There is another video of a speaker that isn't Habib:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=49rYDBBrMms - vertical video format on a landscape - poor phone mic quality. I know its nit-picking but if you want to manifest a larger audience/voting pool, you will need to invest in a proper mic and film properly. These all add up when forming authority online, boomers simply sift it out, but those otherwise may be put off by the amateur style.

TLDR: They've got no fans, they've got no ground.

My judgement on them will be on whether they can match Reform UK as well as Labour, Tories etc.

I've seen and heard practically nothing from them since Lowe's announcement and perhaps that isn't surprising as Farage's brand resonates more with people.

Without cheating, I can only tell you the leaders of only a few Right Wing parties other than Reform UK:

Advance - Rupert Lowe
Heritage - David Kurten
Reclaim - Laurence Fox
UKIP - Nick Tenconi
Britain First - Paul Golding and Ashlea Simon
BNP - No idea
National Front - No idea, not even sure they still exist.

UKIP doesn't get even half of the media traction it did 10 years ago, Britain First are on something on a small 'boon' in the Midlands and Manchester but are a long way behind Reform UK and both Heritage and Reclaim have made zero gains (Reclaim being more of a Laurence Fox ego thing).

In Wales, Abolish The Welsh Assembly (Mark Reckless) and the 'not-Right but never-Left' Propel party of Neil McEvoy have also not gained any significant traction either.

Farage knows how to play the media - he says something, the media freak out and feature him and his profile and ratings go up. If the BBC etc. feature him, the wokes will whine but if they don't then they'll be accused of cowardice and not standing up to fascism.

It is delicious to know that the MSM are impotent against Farage, it's so easy as well.

 

[evrae]

The second is that communism for far too long has enjoyed having a monopoly on what I'll call the "Liberalism 2.0" argument. They allege that liberalism failed to live up to its promises, and so it needs an update to fill them, with communism as the solution. (It is a wrong solution, but answering "42" to the question "What does 2+2 equal?" is still a solution.) I have noticed no other theory save maybe fascism even try arguing this, but I already mentioned communism. Most liberal critics I've seen just assume it's not salvageable because the commies ID'ed a legit problem, but the more I looked at it, the less sense that made. Yeah, it has problems, but has no one ever noticed that Locke died over a century before Marx was a sperm in his daddy's ballsack and that kinda means Locke couldn't really defend his own theory from that? That led me down a bit of a rabbit hole to where it's my honest opinion now that Marx argued a liberal strawman with one good point and no one's called out the rest of the strawman ever since. That led me to trying to nurse a pet theory for now that liberal theory isn't broken per se, Marx forced it to be far more than it ever should be as a political philosophy and in the 250 or so years since he penned the Communist Manifesto, no one's ever bothered to try pointing this out. When I realized that, a lot of shit just hit like a ton of bricks, and I kinda realized the commie logic had become so pervasive, even the most ardent critics of communism were still using communist logic in their rejection of communism and liberalism! At that point, loads of standard talking points on this genuinely didn't make sense anymore, since it can't really be argued Gramsci and his disciples weren't in fact allowed to make just about every western nation completely buck-broken to letting in lumpenproles as they had deconstructed the very things that made cultures have immune systems to negative cultural ideas. And since that fact happened, what does that say about culture as an idea given they were allowed to make a culture of self-destruction, promulgate it, and make it the standard operating procedure for liberal nations right out from under them? All evidence for me points to a complete failure to address this logic trap way back when, leaving all the migrants are just a football the commies deliberately want everyone focusing on instead of the fact they helped engineer the whole system we're currently complaining about. It's not that the migrants aren't the issue, it's that culture by itself won't answer for who let open the floodgates unless you have some other non-geographic, non-ethnic culture that was milling around explicitly trying to ruin things and will still ruin things even if you can engage in remigration.

Mind elaborating on this a bit more? Reading this makes me feel like I have the same thoughts on the tip of my tongue but can't quite piece them together properly. It's a pretty fascinating observation (and honestly, a pretty obvious one in hindsight, Marx was notoriously shit and I'm pretty sure Engels carried him hard when it came to writing the damned manifesto in the first place, it's why Marx got ripped to shreds by Stirner of all people) but I think my polsci knowledge has withered a fair bit due to being too busy with work to make it out fully.

On the topic on academia needing to be restored too alongside everything else to have a hope in hell in keeping this sort of shit in the gutter at least for the next few generations, I feel like it's starting to swing that way due to the gradual cutting of funding among academics of those faculties. As an example, my former uni had its humanities department stripped down heavily in budget cuts (all unis have done this, I'm pretty sure). Another point is the right (thankfully) noticing and taking this problem more seriously and in turn now worming their way, at least in secret. The general shattering of the left wing here has also, from my experience, made it very easy to reshape the opinions of those I 100% know were, prior to Labour winning, hardcore lefties.

I think the combination of the left shattering and Israel doing its usual (which has always been a sore point for unis everywhere) has enabled the spread of ideas that are normally very right wing across academia.

 

[teriyakiburns]

They have used the police force as a name for decades. Even wikipedia refers to them as Police Forces. I know you're from the UK so what are you trying to argue here? The language as far as I'm aware has always been police force.

He probably overdosed on Hot Fuzz. Understandable really. It's a great film. (Also a great overview of modern British policing and the modern police state).

I have curry powder in my spice cabinet.

My uncle used to run a chippy. He had a huge sack of chippy curry powder left over after he retired. Amazing stuff.

No seriously. Because I'd argue that Britain doesn't have one culture.

Yes and no. Britain has a lot of very similar cultures. There's a broad English culture with myriad regional and local differences, a quartet of modern Scottish cultures, two Waleses, and four Norn Irons. The broad, over-arching cultures are the things people tend to think of when they think of "English Culture" or "British Culture". They don't tell the whole story, but they give a good general idea of what the story is.

 

[An Idle Observer]

Mind elaborating on this a bit more?

It'd be an honor. Basically, Marxism as a premise wants to position itself as an upgrade to liberalism. It alleges the promises of equality didn't result in equality, rah rah rah, liberalism failed, so here's communism with the necessary patches to get liberalism to the advertised and functioned state, according to le heckin' commie.

Among other problems... this might be true of Rousseau, but he was hardly the only political philosopher one could consider in the classical liberal canon, and even Hobbes has a place in it given he was the most right on human nature. There is absolutely room to make a liberal counterargument to Marx... but Locke, Hobbes, and Rousseau were all dead and so can't really respond to anything Marx raises themselves. He's running a race with exactly one competitor, so OFC he's going to win. I don't see any good reason then why classical liberalism HAS to mean everyone is materially equal or that it's even considered, nothing about it inherently needs it unless you're going full Rousseau, the most wrong out of anyone in that canon.

So my logic goes here that liberalism is not meant to be a complete philosophy. (Marxism, among other things, does attempt to be an all-in-one philosophy of morality, culture, and body politic. More people can and should call them out for this.) At most, its proper place is in a referee's position for politics. Justice wears a blindfold so she may not see where the scales fall when the accused and accuser get on them, the premise of liberalism is to make this concept as bountiful as possible so that we don't unga-bunga out good ideas just because person our caveman brains don't like says them. That's what happened to China in the 1400's when they declared there was nothing outside of China that needed knowing and that's what led to them losing the Opium War. By all accounts, that attitude of sunshine disinfecting everything has been resoundingly true and any backsliding to that effect has been because someone closed the shades. Related, I think we should focus our hardest gaze on those people, and it's why I obsess with commies fucking everything up.

Following from this, attempting to use liberalism as an actual cultural tenet as opposed to a method to evaluate cultural tenets is effectively the Marxist deconstruction logic having wormed its way into your brain to reproduce parasitically. Liberalism doesn't tell you X is good or bad morally or culturally. It just tries providing an equal playing field so those ideas can do battle with each other and let the cream rise. The most morality it can or should allege is merely its self-preservation as that referee role, meaning that I'd argue the commie's Liberalism 2.0 posturing is prima facie bad faith and should be mocked relentlessly for the stolen valor it is.

Yes and no. Britain has a lot of very similar cultures.

To skip straight to the end here, I'm alleging communist culture exists and fucks with the whole argument like it does most things. It's important to point out that I don't think British culture receded so much as got sabotaged, and that changes the whole dynamic of how we're analyzing cultural decline here. If it was sabotaged, well the issue is that British culture was never fighting off the forces of rot in the first place and so it's premature to call for drastically upheaving society's basic premises if the whole issue is someone else coming in and having done that already.

On the topic on academia needing to be restored too alongside everything else to have a hope in hell in keeping this sort of shit in the gutter at least for the next few generations...

The reason I push back against the ethnic explanations is because without dealing with this, you're just gonna swing right back to this in 10-30 years. There is a mole in the ministry, it did not all of a sudden, for no good reason, set itself up to fail.

I feel like it's starting to swing that way due to the gradual cutting of funding among academics of those faculties. As an example, my former uni had its humanities department stripped down heavily in budget cuts (all unis have done this, I'm pretty sure). Another point is the right (thankfully) noticing and taking this problem more seriously and in turn now worming their way, at least in secret.

There's a much simpler explanation. The value of a degree ain't shit no more and the myth that it offers prestige or opportunities has well and truly died. With nothing drawing people, hello my baby, hello my honey, hello welfare office because you got fucked and your student loans were a stupid as fuck idea.

The general shattering of the left wing here has also, from my experience, made it very easy to reshape the opinions of those I 100% know were, prior to Labour winning, hardcore lefties.

True about a lot of things lately. The utter failing of the Blairite project is too grandiose to be denied.