UK British News Megathread - aka CWCissey's news thread

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
https://news.sky.com/story/row-over-new-greggs-vegan-sausage-rolls-heats-up-11597679 (https://archive.ph/5Ba6o)

A heated row has broken out over a move by Britain's largest bakery chain to launch a vegan sausage roll.

The pastry, which is filled with a meat substitute and encased in 96 pastry layers, is available in 950 Greggs stores across the country.

It was promised after 20,000 people signed a petition calling for the snack to be launched to accommodate plant-based diet eaters.


But the vegan sausage roll's launch has been greeted by a mixed reaction: Some consumers welcomed it, while others voiced their objections.

View image on Twitter


spread happiness@p4leandp1nk
https://twitter.com/p4leandp1nk/status/1080767496569974785

#VEGANsausageroll thanks Greggs
2764.png


7
10:07 AM - Jan 3, 2019
See spread happiness's other Tweets
Twitter Ads info and privacy


Cook and food poverty campaigner Jack Monroe declared she was "frantically googling to see what time my nearest opens tomorrow morning because I will be outside".

While TV writer Brydie Lee-Kennedy called herself "very pro the Greggs vegan sausage roll because anything that wrenches veganism back from the 'clean eating' wellness folk is a good thing".

One Twitter user wrote that finding vegan sausage rolls missing from a store in Corby had "ruined my morning".

Another said: "My son is allergic to dairy products which means I can't really go to Greggs when he's with me. Now I can. Thank you vegans."

View image on Twitter


pg often@pgofton
https://twitter.com/pgofton/status/1080772793774624768

The hype got me like #Greggs #Veganuary

42
10:28 AM - Jan 3, 2019
See pg often's other Tweets
Twitter Ads info and privacy


TV presenter Piers Morgan led the charge of those outraged by the new roll.

"Nobody was waiting for a vegan bloody sausage, you PC-ravaged clowns," he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Morgan later complained at receiving "howling abuse from vegans", adding: "I get it, you're all hangry. I would be too if I only ate plants and gruel."

Another Twitter user said: "I really struggle to believe that 20,000 vegans are that desperate to eat in a Greggs."

"You don't paint a mustach (sic) on the Mona Lisa and you don't mess with the perfect sausage roll," one quipped.

Journalist Nooruddean Choudry suggested Greggs introduce a halal steak bake to "crank the fume levels right up to 11".

The bakery chain told concerned customers that "change is good" and that there would "always be a classic sausage roll".

It comes on the same day McDonald's launched its first vegetarian "Happy Meal", designed for children.

The new dish comes with a "veggie wrap", instead of the usual chicken or beef option.

It should be noted that Piers Morgan and Greggs share the same PR firm, so I'm thinking this is some serious faux outrage and South Park KKK gambiting here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've got a generator, but that relies on having access to safely stored fuel, which is a bit of an ask even with preservatives.
They also made that illegal without a "reason". You're allowed something like 10L stored if it's appropriately done so and justified, e.g. you have a petrol powered lawn mower. I forget the specifics but just mentioning it.
 
They also made that illegal without a "reason". You're allowed something like 10L stored if it's appropriately done so and justified, e.g. you have a petrol powered lawn mower. I forget the specifics but just mentioning it.
30L, and you can only keep a maximum of 20L per container. It's all for "safety".

Like so many things, it only matters if you get caught.

Work out your daily electric usage for basics. Freezer, lights, pc ,thermostat...
Build an off grid system. Look to the setups in campervans and barges for ideas.
I've actually been working on this. Less an off-grid and more a battery time-shifting system (though adding solar to charge the batteries would be a relative snap), which is supposed to charge up on the ultra-cheap night tariff and then kick in during the day. I got as far as eyeing up a busted EV for the battery bank, but lack of time and cash got in the way.
 
Since people are talking about utilities, Thames Water is still pleading poverty and is now insisting they need to increase water bills by 59% over 5 years (bear in mind just 4 months ago they were only asking for a measly 44% increase). The thing that pissed me off the most though is this:
Chris Weston, chief executive of Thames Water, said the money from higher bills would be invested in new infrastructure and improving services.

"They [customers] are not being asked to pay twice, but to make up for years of focus on keeping bills low," he said in a response to the regulator.
I mean I'm no fancy businessman but I'm pretty sure taking on debt so you can pay out massive fucking dividends (including at one point a dividend that was almost triple your actual profits that year) is not really the best way to focus on keeping bills low:
dividends.JPG Debt.JPG

Also Two Tier Kier's justice system keeps rolling on. The dude who threw shit at Farage's bus during the GE campaign has been given a 6 week sentence, suspended for 12 months, plus the usual unpaid work and shit. Apparently, deliberately planning and attempting to assault a politician during an election campaign is somehow infinitely less serious than all the BS people were arrested for during the riots.

30L, and you can only keep a maximum of 20L per container. It's all for "safety".
It's actually 275L as long as you notify the appropriate agency (usually the fire brigade, occasionally the council) that you have it. Note you're only notifying them that you have it, you're not requesting permission.
 
Is he retarded enough to bald-face lie about something so sensitive while simultaneously throwing a political rival under the bus?
Considering they previously said they weren’t going to do those things and then all get caught in private admitting they were going to do those things only to then have to come out in public and say well yes we are doing thise things.

He would absolutely lie.

Remember this is Labour that found Boris guilty of doing things who then hired the person that found him guilty but not Starmer and went onto publicly say everything was totally above board.

Labour has had for quite some time a big issue of not being able to be honest which is why whenever you look into their plans it does not match what they said,

There’s a reason the Election was more anti current Torries than it was pro Labour.
Edit: and he's a commie. He hates the working class, but he hates the rich more.
No, he doesn’t. Him and his friends are very rich. Commies have never actually hated the rich. They just say they do.
Would be really funny if they were extremely literal with their working people definition and absolutely knee capped benefits but i don't think they have it in them
What are they defing it as now?
 
Last edited:
It's actually 275L as long as you notify the appropriate agency (usually the fire brigade, occasionally the council) that you have it. Note you're only notifying them that you have it, you're not requesting permission.
brb buying more jerry cans
 
I very much doubt there'll be blackouts. Why on earth would they allow the 24/7 propaganda boxes to shut off?
Bingo. That'll be the "and circuses" bit.

I mean I'm no fancy businessman but I'm pretty sure taking on debt so you can pay out massive fucking dividends (including at one point a dividend that was almost triple your actual profits that year) is not really the best way to focus on keeping bills low:
These graphs are from the Grauniad, which appears to be pushing an agenda. Notice how they've not adjusted it for inflation, making the graph look steeper. Plus I'm not sure having a high dividend in 1999 has anything to do with them having high debts now.
I'm not defending them, I just hate journalists' tricks.
 
Bingo. That'll be the "and circuses" bit.


These graphs are from the Grauniad, which appears to be pushing an agenda. Notice how they've not adjusted it for inflation, making the graph look steeper. Plus I'm not sure having a high dividend in 1999 has anything to do with them having high debts now.
I'm not defending them, I just hate journalists' tricks.
Just wait until these journalists find out that those dividends fund a lot of their pension pots.
 
We should find out the Torie leader soon, I actually hope for Kemi. She is pretty sagacious and some youth injected into the party is a good thing. The good thing is too that she does not hate Farage and I think the two of them know they have an enemy in Kier. One thing Starmer is incredibly bad at is rebuttals and he freezes quickly even more so than Sunak. Kemi too is rather persistent when she acquires a target and I think a younger Black woman will throw him massively. Starmer is a witless ideologue at the end of the day as are his front benchers. Of course too is the fact when it comes to speaking its only him, Reeves and Raynor against 2 parties that openly despise him. I am expecting Farage when in the house to be an attack dog.

Here's the thing I don't get and I pray the opposition do it and that is quote him because he lies profusely. He said yesterday "they dishonoured our fallen heroes as the cenotaph." Yet in the same breath takes away the winter fuel allowance of vets etc to fund unions and the power companies. In about 3 sentences too, the fact he has no opposition has gone to his head and he isn't even checking what he is saying. It's cool Kier I pay £20 a day for my work commute, pre passes of course but the UK has no quality of life of the little things its all take take take take. Hell you could say food quality was great compare to the US but that now is doubtable.
 
Kemi would be a good leader for the Tory party. I'd honestly be more concerned with the impact on her career of the role than anything else. If she can get a solid reputation out of it as the person who rebuilt the Conservative party then great. If the Tory party continues to be a shambles I wouldn't want her to tarnish her status by that.

But I guess with the collapse in seats it's near impossible to blame the Tory party for anything under the Labour govt. because they're pretty much powerless right now. So I guess the only way is up if she becomes leader.
 
I told you Lucy Letby was a scapegoat. More 'experts' are coming around to the idea:

Lucy Letby: Questions grow in debate on killer's convictions


Lucy Letby has become arguably the most notorious serial killer of modern times.
Convicted of killing seven babies in her care and attempting to kill seven others – the former neonatal nurse will die in prison.
But for some time now, a growing number of experts have been raising concerns about her trials, claiming that vital evidence may have been misinterpreted.
Others insist that much of the debate is misguided and there is no evidence to show that the trial was in any way unfair or unreliable.
An inquiry into the Countess of Chester Hospital and the NHS’s handling of the whole matter is set to begin on 10 September.
Letby’s murder trial last year was one of the longest in British legal history, following a six-year police investigation - and was followed by a retrial after a verdict on allegations concerning one baby could not be reached.

The nurse, pictured under arrest at her Chester home in 2018
Six expert medical witnesses and many former colleagues testified against her. Thousands of documents were presented by the prosecution and pored over in many months of painstaking examination.
Their case was wide ranging, including blood test results which showed that two babies had been given an insulin overdose, X-rays which indicated that air had been injected into seven others, while others still were shown to have been force-fed with milk.
Then there were the notes at Letby's house which appeared to contain confessions - one reading "I am evil" - and the frequent social media searches she made for the families of the babies who had died, which lawyers maintained was the nurse showing a morbid curiosity to witness the effect she had on their lives.
A staffing rota also showed she had been on duty for every suspicious death or collapse between June 2015 and June 2016.
The rota was a key part of the case – a striking visual symbol of the case against her. But a number of statisticians have publicly questioned its usefulness.
One is Peter Green, a professor of statistics and a former President of the Royal Statistical Society.
"The chart appears to be very convincing, but there are a number of issues with it," he said.
"A big thing is that it only describes 25 of the bad events which happened in this period.
"It doesn’t include any of the events that happened when Lucy was not on duty."

Lucy Letby appeared at two separate trials over the last two years
There were at least six other deaths and numerous collapses.
Prof Green said the chart also does not reflect the fact that Letby was working extra shifts.
"It’s a natural human thing. We all see patterns that are not there," he said.
"The danger is that this evidence can be very compelling to the non-professional, and over interpreted."
Another crucial part of the prosecution's case were blood samples from babies who had collapsed with low blood sugar.
They showed exceptionally high levels of insulin and low levels of a substance called C-peptide.
That combination is only generally seen when the body takes in synthetic insulin, leading to the charge that Letby had deliberately poisoned the babies by adding it to their nursery feed bags.
Prof Alan Wayne Jones, an expert in forensic toxicology, is one of those who has challenged the results.
He pointed out that the test used measures the body’s reaction to insulin rather than the substance itself.
"The problem is that the method of analysis used [in these two cases] was probably perfectly good from a clinical point of view, but not a forensic toxicology point of view," he said.
"That test cannot differentiate between synthetic insulin and insulin produced by the pancreas."


The testing lab’s own website states that if synthetic insulin is suspected, the results should be verified externally by a specialist centre.
Clinicians at the Countess of Chester did not do that because thankfully both babies recovered.
At the time, there was no suspicion of deliberate harm.
Prof Jones said he has no doubt they suffered sharp drops in blood sugar levels, but that there could be another natural explanation for why that had happened.
Others have also questioned the charge that Letby injected air into babies' blood vessels with often fatal consequences.
They were each found to have air bubbles in their blood, known as an embolism.
A number of clinicians also described witnessing unusual and sudden rashes in these infants.
The prosecution quoted a paper on the phenomenon, written in 1989 by Canadian neonatologist Dr Shoo Lee, which described a distinctive rash of bright pink blood vessels against a blue skin as an indicator of air embolism.
But in April at Letby’s Court of Appeal hearing, Dr Lee spoke for the defence.
The defence claimed the distinctive rash he had outlined did not appear to be that described by witnesses in her case.
Dr Lee was not called at the original trial. The defence did not call any expert witnesses – just Letby herself and the hospital plumber, who testified that there had been drainage problems in the unit.
By contrast, six expert witnesses testified for the prosecution.
Much of the case relied on the testimony of Dr Dewi Evans, a former paediatric consultant with decades of experience as an expert witness.
Image source,PA Media
Image caption,
Letby worked at the Countess of Chester Hospital's neo-natal unit
He said he had read 18 research papers in total on air embolism, highlighting different indications.
In other words, he was not just relying on Dr Lee’s report.
He also pointed out that his findings were backed up in court by a radiologist and a neonatal pathologist.
He added that the cases on the rota were there because, after reviewing all the deaths and collapses, he thought only they were suspicious or unexpected.
He said he had not known at that point that Letby had been on duty and this had only been revealed afterwards by Cheshire Police.
Dr Evans also made the point that none of those raising concerns had seen the patient notes.
The Court of Appeal spent three days listening to the defence and prosecution arguments but ultimately rejected the case, and a 58-page judgement explains their conclusion, external.
In the case of Dr Lee’s testimony, the court found that Dr Evans had relied on numerous sources to come to his conclusions, including those other research papers, X-rays and the opinions of other experts.
The Crown Prosecution Service said two juries and three appeal court judges had now "reviewed the evidence against Lucy Letby and she has been convicted on 15 separate counts following two separate trials".
"In May, the Court of Appeal dismissed Letby’s leave to appeal on all grounds – rejecting her argument that expert prosecution evidence was flawed," a representative added.

Veteran MP Sir David Davis is among those who have cast doubts
None of this has convinced those fighting to have it heard again, who point to previous occasions when the Appeal Court has got it wrong.
Veteran MP Sir David Davis has a history of championing successful miscarriage of justice cases.
Most recently, he helped Mike Lynch, the tech entrepreneur who successfully fought a 12-year legal battle in the USA, but died after a freak storm engulfed his yacht earlier this month.
Sir David said he had started off by thinking that Letby was guilty.
His doubts began in May after he raised a question in the House of Commons on why a critical piece in an American magazine was not allowed to be published here.
This was before the second trial and British contempt laws do not allow publication of anything which could influence the jury.
"It was only the fact that I got authoritative calls from people who really know about statistics, about medicine, about science, about law, and I’d never had anything like this happen before," he said
"I started to think – it’s a terrible crime, but if they’ve got it wrong, it’s a terrible miscarriage of justice."
Sir David said he believed other possibilities for the deaths could have included a lack of staffing and training on the unit and an infectious outbreak, possibly linked to the faulty drainage discussed in the trial.
"All of us find it easier to believe that a villain has killed people rather than a system or a random act," he said.
He is now reading through thousands of documents detailing the trial before making a decision on whether to take the case up and press for the Criminal Cases Review Commission to get involved.
Sir David said he already believes that the trial was flawed but by itself that does not mean Letby is not guilty.
He added that he will not take it further unless he comes to the conclusion that she was probably innocent.
Some of the parents of the babies who died have spoken of their pain at seeing doubts being raised on the convictions.
Sir David said he does think about this and understands that they have gone through years of suffering.
But he said if the conviction is proved to be unsafe, it is important to look at other reasons which may have led to what happened.
"If we have got this wrong it’s not just that we’ve put a young woman in prison for the rest of her life effectively, it is also that we haven’t answered why these babies died, and why other babies may die," he said.

Statistician Professor Peter Green said he fears the convictions could be unsafe
But others question the basis for claims that the trial was flawed.
Barrister Tim Owen KC has spent 40 years as a defence lawyer, and worked on many cases which he successfully referred back to the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
He also co-hosts a legal podcast, Double Jeopardy, which has examined the Letby debate.
Much has been made of the fact that the Letby case relied on circumstantial evidence and no-one definitively saw her harming any of the babies.
Mr Owen said this point is far less relevant than many might think.
"Some people believe that circumstantial evidence isn’t really evidence," he said.
"That’s simply not true.
"A circumstantial case can be a powerful case but in order to understand it, you have to look at the totality.
"You can’t just pick one little bit and say, 'Oh look at that, that’s unreliable,' or 'That doesn’t prove anything'."
Mr Owen said no-one knows exactly why the two expert witnesses instructed by Letby’s defence team were never called.
He said one conclusion would have to be that the defence decided the testimony would not help their case.
He stressed he had no personal view on Letby’s guilt or innocence and underlined that he had dealt with many miscarriages of justice, but added that as it stands, there is no proof that this is one.
"There needs to be something new and compelling which calls into question the fundamental case theory presented to the jury at two trials,” he said, adding that so far, he has not seen that.
"I’m seeing lots of people putting forward theories. They are making assumptions without the solid basis for it."
But still the questions continue. This week a private letter signed by 24 experts asked for the forthcoming Letby inquiry to either be delayed or to change its terms of reference to reflect the current debate.
One of the signatories, statistician Prof Peter Green, said he too has no view on Letby’s guilt.
"I have no idea whether she is innocent or not," he said.
"My concern is simply about the possibility that this was not a safe conviction."
Forensic toxicologist Alan Wayne Jones agreed.
"I don’t know whether she’s guilty or not," he said.
"I don’t think anyone knows except Lucy Letby."

It's easier to read the article on the BBC but here are some selected quotes: (These quotes are taken from a well-rounded article that highlight why I think LL was a scapegoat and not ones arguing that she's guilty of infanticide)

"A big thing is that it only describes 25 of the bad events which happened in this period.

"It doesn’t include any of the events that happened when Lucy was not on duty." There were at least six other deaths and numerous collapses.
"If we have got this wrong it’s not just that we’ve put a young woman in prison for the rest of her life effectively, it is also that we haven’t answered why these babies died, and why other babies may die," he said.
He added that the cases on the rota were there because, after reviewing all the deaths and collapses, he thought only they were suspicious or unexpected.

TL;DR -
  • Two babies collapsed and recovered, they blamed letby but couldn't prove that she injected synthetic insulin.
  • Those who were thought to have an air embolism, that Lucy was supposedly caused by injecting air into the babies, lacked a distinctive rash that is common in air embolisms. The hospital didn't investigate.
  • 'Expert' Prosecution witness picked cases he thought were suspicious, although proven not suspicious when investigate, which happened to have LL on the charts.
  • Trial tainted by fabrication of evidence - People were told all the babies died while LL was on shift. However, 6 babies and numerous collapses occurred while she wasn't on shift. None were investigated.
  • LL pulled extra shifts (Overtime) and no babies died while she was on these extra shifts.
I'm not simping for LL, I just want the truth of what happened to be known and I believe the truth is a load of babies were killed through incompetence, lack of resources or lack of training and the weird white bitch was used as a scapegoat to cover up the myriad failings within that hospital. Those parents deserve to know what happened to their children.
 
How much will lowering the threashold of inheritance tax "make" the Government?

I would think not as much as raising the price of diesel and petrol at the pumps.

The Government fund a 5p a litre fuel duty reduction, which was introduced after Covid to help the public out. It is supposed to run until April 2025. I would think it would be simple to bring it to an end in October, as that would raise a fair chunk of the £20billion deficit that Reeves claims she found.

The motorist needs to be hit harder, they get off too easily now that tax from tobacco is dwindling...
 
I'm not simping for LL, I just want the truth of what happened to be known and I believe the truth is a load of babies were killed through incompetence, lack of resources or lack of training and the weird white bitch was used as a scapegoat to cover up the myriad failings within that hospital. Those parents deserve to know what happened to their children.
The pussy pass in action. The pro-Letby argument requires that:
a) when she wrote "I'm evil, I did this", she meant something other than that she was evil and she did this
b) her defence lawyer was so incompetent that he agreed with the prosecution that there had been a murder, but by someone else
 
The pussy pass in action. The pro-Letby argument requires that:
a) when she wrote "I'm evil, I did this", she meant something other than that she was evil and she did this
b) her defence lawyer was so incompetent that he agreed with the prosecution that there had been a murder, but by someone else
You're making bigger assumptions to make a square peg fit a round hole than visa-versa.
a) If she DID do this, then she didn't do it that often, managed to kill kids when she wasn't on shift, saved kids when she was on shift and assumes that she reacted to having a child die on her in a logical way. Talk to nurses who go through losing their first patient. How wracked with guilt would you be if circumstances outside of your control kept killing people?
If you were a car mechanic and failed to fix 12 cars, you wouldn't blame yourself? It seems a hell of a stretch to give a woman 15 consecutive life sentences because she wrote in a diary "I am evil". I once wrote "danny sucks cock" on the back of a bus. It wasn't true.

B) Her defence lawyers only called two witnesses; Lucy Letby and a hospital plumber. He didn't call Dr Lee -an expert in air embolosis, who would have testified that the babies were missing the signature rash. He didn't call any managers to the stand to question what over-sight Letby had and why, after two deaths, was she not retrained, reprimanded or fired.
The defence lawyer was, at best incompetent and at worst paid-for so that Letby would be found guilty.

Take into account that an appeal and review of evidence was instantly denied, something that very rarely happens. Consider that the media and court of public opinion found Letby guilty before she even went to court. If any of this sounds like grand conspiracy, then consider that Jimmy Saville was raping kids in St James' Hospital, Leeds, for nearly two decades. The staff knew, the nurses knew, the coppers knew, and no-one was allowed to say shit.
Consider the Staffordshire hospital Infant-ward closure, where failing after failing was covered up, with false reports and autopsy results given to parents, signed off by managers, to keep hidden the absolute incompetence that led to a lot of kids dying.
Consider OJ Simpson writing a book literally called "If I did it: Confessions of a Killer" and he was still a free man.

On one hand, you have a whole ward and throng of Dr's that would lose a shit load of money if systemic failings were found. On the other hand you have some weird bitch who wrote "I'm evil" in a diary, who wasn't present at all of the death, only half of them, who didn't kill kids on other shifts OR overtime, while no investigation was carried out into the deaths of the other kids.
 
A lot of the armed forces community trolls about accom and barracks
Private Eye has been covering this for years (also Deepcut). It's a treasure trove of things successive governments and the establishment want to keep on the down low. Ian Hislop is not the most sued man in Britain for nothing.

Kemi too is rather persistent when she acquires a target
Also knows what a woman is, worked at McDonald's from A levels to degree graduation and has a grip on reality, which is nice.

It always amused me that thus far the nasty racist misogynist Tories have had three women leaders, a poc leader and two poc chancellors, whereas Labor has had exclusively white male leadership (and Diane Abbot, but I'm not sure what she did apart from bad math and Jeremy Corbin).

As to smart meters, my Bong residing relatives are solid refusers. If people in their 80s* have concerns about their security vis a vis external access threats, how come these youngish digital native types are so clueless?**


*While being harassed by an energy supplier to accept a smart meter some years ago, he said 'I might be Irish, but I didn't come in on the last fuckin boat and I'm not fuckin stupid' before hanging up. They haven't called him back.

**I know really. It's 'education, education, education' what done for 'em.
 
The defence lawyer was, at best incompetent and at worst paid-for so that Letby would be found guilty.

That sound crazy. A government-employed official charged with protecting the public conspiring with the other government officials to destroy an innocent person's life to cover up the innocents killed by the malice and incompetence at another government institution? When has that kind of thing ever happened?
 
Back
Top Bottom