Back 4 Blood - Left 4 Dead's spiritual successor

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Gar For Archer said:
Literally the only thing a L4D remake needs is less clunky movement and maybe slightly improved gun mechanics. Early 2010's Source engine physics is really the only thing holding the game back more than a decade after its release - the base gameplay is basically perfect already and doesn't need an update. The reason it's so good is BECAUSE it's pretty bare-bones and doesn't throw a ton of mechanics at you - nothing gets in the way of the most important thing (that being shooting zombies til they're dead).
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Would that work these days though? I remember at the time some reviews complaining the original game could be beat in 4 hours, and people these days are hesitant to play a game without some form of progression.
 
Judge Dredd said:
Would that work these days though? I remember at the time some reviews complaining the original game could be beat in 4 hours, and people these days are hesitant to play a game without some form of progression.
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Kids today can't play a game without some sort of flashy , YOU DID IT, LEVEL UP, bells and whistles bullshit that's been encoded into their DNA. I just want to play a game, not be held hostage by randomly generated failure.


Most recently annoying: World War Z and Aliens Fireteam

First WWZ .

World War Z was 3 hours at launch. With a mindless progression system that locked all the good weapons and abilities behind 100 hours of grind.

Then they updated and nerfed all the good weapons and abilities to shit, while reducing the ammo you can carry. Which is odd in a game with infinite enemies literally falling out of the sky.

Follow up. The game tried so desperately to be L4D that it even opened the same way L4D2 did. They even bragged about having their own ai-director... When in reality it was really just a randomly generated fuck you. Especially on Very Hard and Extreme. Weapons were grind locked, but in game they're randomly pulled from a pool between all four players. That means you could make it to the final fight of an Extreme level and only have ONE level 2 weapon split between 4 players. You're not going to deal enough damage, GGS you tried.

Let me explain. Zombie swarms are tied to sound in the game. The more noise you make the more zombies you summon. Most weapons don't get a silencer until level 5. Previously, you could just kill 2000 zombies in a level, and buy the gun outright.
Now you need to kill 500 zombies across four levels, then buy all of the previous levels to unlock the siliencer. AKA the thing you NEED to get through the game without endlessly summoning enemies out of the sky.

Then they nerfed AMMO.

Then they added enemies that force the player to stand still and do things besides fight zombies. Hell, to add insult to injury, they recently added a new class that's so useless that they can use their power to feed themselves to the zombies. The newest special enemy? Rats.

A swarm of fucking rats that can pin you down, while enemies still attack you. These enemies are not zombies, therefore invisibility and zombie lure does not work on them. They only existed to fuck over Optimal Teams, since the Optimal team does not break silence. The only way before the patch , to kill the rats was to break silence. But now, since they made them weaker, the rats automatically break silence on their own.

Aliens Fire Team... Which has the same money laundering parent company as World War Z, go figure. Has the same exact problem.

Each level is 15 minutes long, that makes for a nice 2 and a half hour long game.

But to pad it out.
-Weapon leveling, noticed your shotgun was extra shit? Better go get 200K exp then try it again.

-Skill grid, so you just can't use your skill points and abilities like an intelligent person.

- You get weaker, the enemies get stronger.

- Ammo scaling. Increase the difficulty, your guns somehow, magically hold less ammo.

-Challenge Cards.
90% of the Challenge Cards are stupid negative effects that aren't worth the added difficulty.

And if multiple are selected, one is randomly chosen. And fucking retards don't even read the cards. I've had so many games on Intense and Extreme ruined because someone picked BY THE LOWEST BIDDER at the last second. What does that do? It makes it so your gun randomly jams and you have to do the FULL reload animation to clear it. If you're using an automatic weapon? It rounds out to your gun jamming every 4 shots, as it's tied to your fucking firerate.
All because you wanted 2.x EXP
THERE'S A 2x EXP CARD YOUR FUCKING DONUT.

Oh and once you get all the attachments and max a class, Challenge cards are worthless lmao.


-Friendly fire doesn't exist on normal and easy.
See I have a personal problem with this. If a game is going to have friendly fucking fire, keep it on in all fucking modes. That way, when people decide to play on anything higher than Easy, they will already be aware. I've died pointless times because some chucklefuck started dodge rolling everywhere with the flamethrower trying to get the Xenu Warrior off his ass.

- Each individual class has to grind their own weapons and levels, luckily there's a weapon overlap.

-The Medic/Doc Class, that actually becomes worthless once you set the game higher than easy, sucks if you wasted time leveling it -- oh wait, you need to level it if you want that handgun skill. See, the Doc's power is tied to the number of medkits in a level. The moment you step above Normal, you'll notice there will barely be 3 medkits in the entire level.

Meanwhile, the Recon has heal on Kill. : ^ )

-Uber weapons are random drops.
TIME TO GRIND AHAHAHAHA

It's just about enough grind to keep people entertained for about 4 months or a week if you hack the game and bypass the grind.
 
Judge Dredd said:
Would that work these days though? I remember at the time some reviews complaining the original game could be beat in 4 hours, and people these days are hesitant to play a game without some form of progression.
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Probably? People like games they can just pick up and play.

I'd really like to meet whoever can beat L4D on expert after four hours of gametime though.
 
Starved Artist said:
-Challenge Cards.
90% of the Challenge Cards are stupid negative effects that aren't worth the added difficulty.
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Some challenge cards can fuck up the gameplay too. I played one of the missions on the alien ship with randoms, one of them picked the security cam challenge card. The final objective in the mission was to shoot at the red crystals on the structures coming from the ceiling, it was impossible to see if you were hitting the crystals.
As for the classes, it's so dumb that the specialist can spawn infinite turrets but the medic's station can't recharge unless the other players pick a medkit, and even then it doesn't recharge completely.
 
@Starved Artist That's giving me flashbacks of Payday 2 and Vermintide where you have a whole game of content, but people would grind the same level over and over farming exp/cards/drops.

I disagree about friendly fire though. One of the big problems with L4D2 is you can't play public games above normal because some brain dead will decide to be "le epik trololol" and gun down everyone. Friendly fire should only be for people on your friends list.
 
Am I the only one who has nothing but negative experiences with xbox players ? They check all the boxes of a bad online game experience

  • constant hot mic
  • yells in a foriegn language
  • Parents fighting the background
  • loud music
  • runs into birds/triggers horde every time
  • friendly fire
  • rage quits at the first sign of inconvenience

or is it just me ?
 
Gar For Archer said:
Literally the only thing a L4D remake needs is less clunky movement and maybe slightly improved gun mechanics. Early 2010's Source engine physics is really the only thing holding the game back more than a decade after its release - the base gameplay is basically perfect already and doesn't need an update. The reason it's so good is BECAUSE it's pretty bare-bones and doesn't throw a ton of mechanics at you - nothing gets in the way of the most important thing (that being shooting zombies til they're dead).

Also, dunno if this has been discussed already, but have these devs considered that maybe cut designs were cut for a reason? It's cool to look at unused concepts and wonder about what could have been, but nine times out of ten it's because it's a concept that sounds cool on paper but either doesn't translate well to actual gameplay or straight up just isn't fun.
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I would want that L4D1 in general gets the updates, fixes the exploits and balance, then use L4D2 as an expansion update rather than a straight up new sequel. Many L4D players disagree but look where we are now, L4D1 is as dead as ass.
Judge Dredd said:
@Starved Artist That's giving me flashbacks of Payday 2 and Vermintide where you have a whole game of content, but people would grind the same level over and over farming exp/cards/drops.

I disagree about friendly fire though. One of the big problems with L4D2 is you can't play public games above normal because some brain dead will decide to be "le epik trololol" and gun down everyone. Friendly fire should only be for people on your friends list.
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Friendly fire is fun. Also fuck Overkill for locking 50% of the game on DLC. "Whole game of content" my ass, just merge the DLCs, lessen the grind especially on higher infamy levels and bump the price at 30$.

PROBLEM. SOLVED.
 
Disco Inferno said:
Am I the only one who has nothing but negative experiences with xbox players ? They check all the boxes of a bad online game experience

  • constant hot mic
  • yells in a foriegn language
  • Parents fighting the background
  • loud music
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Good to see that the Xbox 360 online gaming experience is still alive and well.
 
WULULULULU said:
I would want that L4D1 in general gets the updates, fixes the exploits and balance, then use L4D2 as an expansion update rather than a straight up new sequel. Many L4D players disagree but look where we are now, L4D1 is as dead as ass.
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Perhaps that was what Valve intended.

In any case, trying to change anything in L4D2 now runs the risk of tipping the entire Jenga Tower. The TLS update made relatively small changes and people threw a colossal fit.
 
I've been playing L4D1 recently since I felt like working toward the Zombie Genocidest achievement. Looks like I dodged a bullet not playing B4B.
 
Starved Artist said:
Christ. It's like every Left 4 Dead Wannabe forgot WHY people liked Left 4 Dead.
  • No Grind.
  • Jump in and Play
  • Great Music
  • Cool Character designs.
  • Randomized enough to keep you guessing, but not random enough to be frustrating
  • You can play by yourself and still win. People think it's stupid, but I like having games I can play without an internet connection.
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Every game that tries to copy Left 4 Dead forgets these ingredients and it leaves me wondering, what did they see when they played L4D/L4D2? Baffles me how they forget the most basic shit every single time they try to copy it
 
armoreddinnerjacket said:
Perhaps that was what Valve intended.

In any case, trying to change anything in L4D2 now runs the risk of tipping the entire Jenga Tower. The TLS update made relatively small changes and people threw a colossal fit.
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Fuck it. It is a risk I want Valve to take, but the community and devs are a bunch of pussies and I suppose some of the members of the TLS are tranny jannies too. L4D1 was a superior product compared to 2, the only thing keeping 2 afloat is the mods. Simply just redo L4D1 and name it to just L4D, keep the gunplay, use some of the artstyle from 2 and BAM. You satisfy both groups easy. Sick and tired of Valve niggers avoiding change.
 
Excuse the caps lock, because this game has me absolutely livid.

I am a perfectionist sometimes. I rented the game. I don't like being a person who talks shit about a game without playing it.

I managed to make it to Abandoned without any problem.
Along the way I upgraded all of my abilities to Epic/Legendary status and was still carrying enough cash to buy TWO upgrades every checkpoint. Because my starter ability was Jew Vision, it's a great power. Walk through the levels, pick up the DOUBLED cash piles. Start the next level with upgrades and items like Tool Kits and Med Kits and Pipe Bombs.

I fire it up this morning so I can play around before I have to suffer at my job for 12 hours.


THIS IS SOME PUSSY ASS BORDERLANDS BULLSHIT

THIRTY FUCKING MINUTES TO CONTINUE MY CAMPAIGN THIRTY FUCKING MINUTES

AND THEN WHEN SOMEONE FUCKING JOINS THEY STAND IDLE THE ENTIRE THREE MINUTE TIMER

GIVING ME NO CHANCE TO ACTUALLY BUY ANYTHING OR DO ANYTHING


AND THEN WHEN THE DOORS FINALLY OPEN HE RUNS OUT AND DIES WITHIN 10 SECONDS
HOW DO I KNOW IT'S 10 SECONDS? BECAUSE I HAVE THE ABILITY THAT GRANTS TEMPORARY HEALTH
TO THE TEAM WHEN YOU OPEN THE DOORS HE WAS DOWNED NEARLY FUCKING INSTANTLY

AND THEN WE FUCKING DIE, HE GETS PINNED BY THAT DEAD SPACE REJECT, THEN SLIMED, THEN GRABBED AND CRUSHED TO DEATH WHILE THE BOT GETS SODOMIZED BY THE CHILD SNATCHER, THE OTHER DUDE TRIED TO RUN AHEAD AND GOT SNATCHED BY A SLEEPER AS WELL

MEANWHILE. I AM IN THE ITEM BOX TRYING TO BUY SOMETHING BECAUSE THESE FUCKERS TOOK ALL THE FUCKING TIME IN THE CARD MENU

CONTINUES - 1

AGAINST MY COMMON SENSE I TRIED AGAIN WITH THESE RETARDS


Holy fucking shit. THEY TRIED RUNNING. THEY DIDN'T BUY ANYTHING. THEY HAD NO HEALTH KITS
THEY HAD NOTHING. THEY COULDN't EVEN WAIT FOR ME TO GIVE THEM SHIT BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY GONE OUT OF THE ROOM WHILE I WAS SHOPPING

As the last man standing, I fruitlessly used the free escape ability to escape from the Stinger's web only to be slapped by the Crusher. AND THEN THEY HAVE THE NERVE TO ASK ME WHERE THE FUCK WAS I. I WAS

I WAS BUYING HEALTH KITS AND EPIC LEVEL PIPE BOMBS YOU LIVING SHIT STAIN. A SINGLE EPIC PIPEBOMB CLEARS AN ENTIRE WAVE. THEN I WAS SNIPING THE TALLBOYS BECAUSE HURRR FUCKING DURR UNLESS YOU ALERT THE ENEMIES YOU CAN SNIPE 90% OF EVERYTHING IN THE LEVEL IF YOU JUST STAND YOUR GROUND AND PROCEED SLOWLY.

My perfect fucking run ruined.

I quit the game. I fucking quit the game. Good fucking game. I haven't rage quit a game since Arcana Hearts 2 launched.
This is endurance bullshit.
These terrible fucking triple niggers want bots to carry them through the game.
I want bots so I don't have to play with these fucking imbesiles

AND IT STILL DOESN't SAVE SINGLE PLAYER SHIT FUCK
 
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Mecha-Jerkop said:
Every game that tries to copy Left 4 Dead forgets these ingredients and it leaves me wondering, what did they see when they played L4D/L4D2? Baffles me how they forget the most basic shit every single time they try to copy it
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Because let's be real, L4D had some serious problems, and still has major flaws. Many of which could be fixed by a sequel, which is what these spiritual successors try to be.

I've mentioned those problems before, so I won't repeat them again, but when you have over a decade of nostalgia to fight against, anything will look worse by comparison. To use the post you quoted.
  • No Grind.
  • Jump in and Play
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As said, I doubt that'd work today.
  • Cool Character designs.
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This is a major flaw today due to politically correct Tumblr characters designed to not offend Twitter. But Rochel was hated at release, and when you break it down the cast of L4D is one note. Francis hates everything. Bill is old. Coach is fat. etc.
  • You can play by yourself and still win. People think it's stupid, but I like having games I can play without an internet connection.
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What version of Left 4 Dead did you play? In the version I've been playing bots are useless, they can't use melee weapons, they always step in spitter goo, they waste medkits, they can't keep up during events, and they're slow to react to people being pinned by specials (if they react at all).
 
Judge Dredd said:
What version of Left 4 Dead did you play? In the version I've been playing bots are useless, they can't use melee weapons, they always step in spitter goo, they waste medkits, they can't keep up during events, and they're slow to react to people being pinned by specials (if they react at all).
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L4D2 has an improved AI mod. It helps a bit. They react faster and they can use melee weapons.

You're still not getting through expert with them.
 
Judge Dredd said:
This is a major flaw today due to politically correct Tumblr characters designed to not offend Twitter. But Rochel was hated at release, and when you break it down the cast of L4D is one note. Francis hates everything. Bill is old. Coach is fat. etc.
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They were well-done, however. I checked out some of B4B's conversations, and they lacked even that one note of personality that makes hearing the voice lines over and over again enjoyable.
 
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