Opinion Are We the Baddies? - An opinion piece on why NATO is bad

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Are We the Baddies?​

Nearly two decades ago, the British comedy series “That Mitchell and Webb Look” featured a sketch in which two Nazi SS officers on the Russian front during World War II experience a crisis of conscience when they realize that they may not be on the right side. Examining the silver skull on his cap, one officer uncertainly asks the other, “Hans … are we the baddies?”

Many Americans will get a similar feeling after reading the Feb. 8 report, “How America Took Out the Nord Stream Pipeline,” by the renowned investigative journalist Seymour Hersh. Hersh reports that President Joe Biden, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Secretary of State Tony Blinken, and Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland devised a covert plan to destroy the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline, a joint project that would have delivered Russian natural gas to Germany and the rest of Europe.

According to Hersh’s sources, the U.S. Navy’s deep-sea divers planted explosives on the pipeline in June near the Danish Island of Bornholm, using the cover of a joint NATO exercise to disguise their activities, and then remotely detonated the bombs in September, just as the European appetite for continuing the endless trains of money and war materiel to Ukraine was beginning to fade. “As long as Europe remained dependent on the pipelines for cheap natural gas, Washington was afraid that countries like Germany would be reluctant to supply Ukraine with the money and weapons it needed to defeat Russia,” Hersh wrote.

The White House, Central Intelligence Agency, and Pentagon immediately issued their standard denials of Hersh’s reporting, but his reputation for revealing the truth of covert government activities is second-to-none. Hersh uncovered the My Lai massacre in Vietnam and the secret bombing of Cambodia, Pakistan’s secret nuclear program, the torture program at Abu Ghraib, and the facts about the killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, among many other stories.

Furthermore, despite the improbable U.S. government narrative last fall that Russia bombed its own pipeline, it was obvious to many observers that the United States and its allies were likely behind the Nord Stream 2 bombing. Chronicles’ own politics editor, Pedro Gonzalez, wrote an online article, “A Day of Infamy in Europe” on Sept. 29, pointing out the obvious signs that the United States was behind the sabotage, including the ominous hints spoken publicly by President Biden and Nuland, and even surmising—correctly, according to Hersh’s reporting—that the U.S. used the BALTOPS 22 joint NATO exercise to conceal the sabotage.

The import of this story should not be lost on Americans. It appears that our government has attacked the civilian infrastructure of an allied country and a member of the NATO alliance—Germany—for the purposes of maintaining a geostrategic advantage over both Europe and Russia. Such an attack would be many things: an act of international terrorism, a war crime, a betrayal of an ally and of the NATO treaty, an attack on a nuclear superpower, and an impeachable offense by President Biden. Above all, it would be an evil action, revealing the utter moral bankruptcy of the claim, oft repeated by both neoliberals and neoconservatives, that the United States government acts as a moral force in the world, spreading abroad freedom, democracy, and the high principles of the American Founding Fathers.

In fact, the U.S. corporate state media and military complex has been remarkably effective at hypnotizing and distracting Americans from the reality of the situation in Ukraine. It has ignored the Nord Stream 2 issue and instead focused obsessively for a week straight about the made-up threat of supposed Chinese spy balloons flying over the U.S.—this was a Wag the Dog-style distraction campaign, assisted by Air Force fighter jets firing $400,000 missiles to shoot down what, at press time, appear to have actually been $12 weather balloons flown by Midwestern hobbyists.

The gaslighting continued in the European Union headquarters in Brussels in mid-February, where the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, General Mark Milley, delivered this statement:
NATO and this coalition has never been stronger. And Russia is now a global pariah, and the world remains inspired by Ukrainian bravery and resilience. In short, Russia has lost. They’ve lost strategically, operationally, and tactically. And they are paying an enormous price on the battlefield.
Contrary to Milley’s statement, Russia is decidedly not a global pariah. The Western financial sanctions on Russia have had virtually no effect the Russian economy. Russian GDP shrank only modestly in 2022, by 2.2 percent, and is expected by the International Monetary Fund to expand this year and next, exceeding U.S. growth. This is happening because most of the world’s non-Western economic powers declined to support the U.S.-led sanctions against Russia—China, most significantly, but also countries that are putatively U.S. allies, including India, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and even Mexico.

Nor, contra Milley, has Russia lost the war in Ukraine “strategically, operationally, and tactically.” As of press time, Russian forces are surrounding the city of Bakhmut in Ukraine, and a slow but relentless westward push, bolstered by hundreds of thousands of newly mobilized troops, is underway. In the same briefing at which Milley spoke, U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin admitted that Ukraine is running short of ammunition. “Ukraine has been at this for a year, and so they have used a lot of artillery ammunition,” Austin said. “We are going to do everything we can working with our international partners to ensure that we give them as much ammunition as quickly as possible.”

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg was even more frank about Ukraine’s supply problems. “The war in Ukraine is consuming an enormous amount of munitions and depleting allied stockpiles,” Stoltenberg said. “The current rate of Ukraine’s ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current rate of production. This puts our defense industries under strain.” Stoltenberg also didn’t appear to have gotten his talking points down pat when he revealed the truth about what the U.S. corporate state media likes to call Russia’s “unprovoked war of aggression against Ukraine.” Speaking to reporters outside of the NATO headquarters in Brussels, Stoltenberg said:
The war didn’t start in February of last year. The war started in 2014. And since 2014, NATO allies have provided support to Ukraine, with training, with equipment, so that Ukrainian forces were much stronger in 2022 than they were in 2014. And of course that made a huge difference when President Putin decided to attack Ukraine.
The reality Stoltenberg is referring to is that the current Russo-Ukrainian War started in February 2014, when the U.S. fomented a coup in Ukraine to overturn the election of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych, and in the subsequent years empowered the neo-Nazi elements of the Ukrainian military—the Azov Battalions inspired by the World War II-era far-right leader Stepan Bandera—to bomb, shell, and murder the pro-Russian Ukrainian civilians in the Donbas.

Lamentably, Americans on both the left and the right—confused by the relentless propaganda, ignorant of the background of the conflict, or harboring knee-jerk distrust of Russia—have felt compelled to support Ukraine as the victim in this war. But that support is slipping. After the start of the war last year, 60 percent of Americans supported sending weapons to Ukraine, according to a poll by the Associated Press and the NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. That support has dropped to 48 percent as of February. As Americans learn more about the corrupt history of America’s involvement in Ukraine, one can hope that they will ask the same question George Washington posed in the final line of his Farewell Address of 1796:
Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?
 
I meant we as in tax payers. I know Hunter Biden and the big guy get a lot out of it.

Theoretically if the US was to lose reserve dollars status you would see hyperinflation as everyone drops all the US dollars they've stockpiled to buy Oil with. So the US would be probably become Zimbabwe. So in a way it is best for you the taxpayer to keep cheering on killing everyone who tries to drop the American Dollar.
 
Haven't people already talked about how that supposed breaking story from him is nothing but made-up bullshit he was probably fed either by A. a CIA guy wanting to spread misinfo on what actually happened or B. a CIA intern peddling a story so he can be a badass leaker, yeah!

No.

Well, the glowies and their media arm have denied it so there's that. But Hersh is the same journalist that broke the stories on the Mai Lai massacre, Abu Ghraib prison torture by the CIA and other shit the US Government and media denied until it turned out to be true.

Maybe the CIA is telling us the truth this time..?
 
Theoretically if the US was to lose reserve dollars status you would see hyperinflation as everyone drops all the US dollars they've stockpiled to buy Oil with. So the US would be probably become Zimbabwe. So in a way it is best for you the taxpayer to keep cheering on killing everyone who tries to drop the American Dollar.

The idea that the US Dollar being used as a reserve currency is a result of NATO is a conflating of history, in my opinion. I don't believe they're tied together, although I've been wrong before.
 
No.

Well, the glowies and their media arm have denied it so there's that. But Hersh is the same journalist that broke the stories on the Mai Lai massacre, Abu Ghraib prison torture by the CIA and other shit the US Government and media denied until it turned out to be true.

Maybe the CIA is telling us the truth this time..?
@Jet Fuel Johnny has already mentioned the actual events of My Lai (the CIA going on a killing spree), and we've had an article posted that notes the inconsistencies and fallacies of what Hersh posted. A thread you yourself posted in, blindly ignorant to all of the facts and discussion, continuing to believe Hersh was 100% correct on things. You have become the very thing your avatar is supposed to mock, clinging to bullshit to justify your own preconceptions.
 
NATO is a defensive organization and always has been. It is not offensive. NATO has never been about invading the Soviet Union back then or Russia now. This idea that NATO is a threat to Russia is just Russian propaganda and only idiots fall for it. As we can see now the only real threat to any European country is Russia. They are the ones that invaded Ukraine after all. Most of the NATO countries were downsizing their militaries and many others couldn't afford to maintain large fighting forces. Matter of fact if things had continued on that way for another decade or so NATO might have started to dissolve. But thanks to Russia invading Ukraine things seem to be going in the opposite direction. In the end the Russians will get the opposite of what they wanted.

No, the US never had an official agreement with the Russians not to expand NATO past East Germany. It was a verbal agreement and it was with the Soviet Union which no longer exists. Verbal agreements usually don't mean much. If you don't get it in writing and officially recognized it doesn't mean jack shit. This is an important lesson for real life. Always get everything in writing on paper and get it officially recognized.

TLDR; NATO isn't bad. It's defensive and not offensive. Any country can join NATO if they wish. Russia is just mad they can't enslave their Eastern European neighbors for their own benefit.
 
It's funny that the same people who whined about Iraq in 2003 are now insisting we go all in on another foreign country. Like what the hell, you guys became the very thing you swore to destroy.
Because there's kind of a major difference between America invading a sovereign country that had nothing to do with 9/11 because of 9/11 and America providing material support to a country that is being invaded by another country who isn't even subtle about wanting to annex it.
 
Because there's kind of a major difference between America invading a sovereign country that had nothing to do with 9/11 because of 9/11 and America providing material support to a country that is being invaded by another country who isn't even subtle about wanting to annex it.
Honestly I don't give a shit, we need to stop fucking around with other countries in both regards, but apparently the anti-war people are really fairweather depending on who's president. Protest Warrior may have been a little cringe, but they made a fair point on that.

It's really none of our business, and will only serve to bankrupt the country further than it already has been.

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The reason the USA is the bad guy goes beyond Russia and Ukraine, it constantly pees in everyone's soup and acts as if it's by moral right rather the interest of the elites and corpos.
But that doesn't really ma guy by association, they aren't the aggressors, especially as Russia started a pointless war of conquest rather than just achieving specific objectives.
 
@Jet Fuel Johnny has already mentioned the actual events of My Lai (the CIA going on a killing spree), and we've had an article posted that notes the inconsistencies and fallacies of what Hersh posted. A thread you yourself posted in, blindly ignorant to all of the facts and discussion, continuing to believe Hersh was 100% correct on things. You have become the very thing your avatar is supposed to mock, clinging to bullshit to justify your own preconceptions.


My Lai was first revealed to the American public on November 13, 1969—almost two years after the incident—when Hersh published a story through the Dispath News Service. The article threatened to undermine the U.S. war effort and severely damage the Nixon presidency. Inside the White House, officials privately discussed how to contain the scandal. On November 21, National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger emphasized that the White House needed to develop a "game plan", to establish a "press policy", and maintain a "unified line" in its public response to the incident. The White House established a "My Lai Task Force" whose mission was to "figure out how best to control the problem", to make sure that administration officials "all don't go in different directions" when discussing the incident, and to "engage in dirty tricks". These included discrediting key witnesses and questioning Hersh's motives for releasing the story. What soon followed was a public relations offensive by the administration designed to shape how My Lai would be portrayed in the press and understood among the American public.

Strategy sound familiar?

They attacked him with the same exact game plan when he exposed Operation CHAOS, the coup in Chile, CIA black sites used for torture in Abu Ghraib, the bullshit WMD claims, and on and on.

Every single time he shines a light on their bullshit, they attack him the same way and then eventually it comes out that he was right and we really were doing shady shit.
 



Strategy sound familiar?

They attacked him with the same exact game plan when he exposed Operation CHAOS, the coup in Chile, CIA black sites used for torture in Abu Ghraib, the bullshit WMD claims, and on and on.

Every single time he shines a light on their bullshit, they attack him the same way and then eventually it comes out that he was right and we really were doing shady shit.
Cool. Now tell me why and how a story full of inconsistencies that doesn't match the actual facts on the ground and relies upon a single anonymous source that somehow knows every single detail of a covert operation the Biden Admin supposedly went to painfully long lengths to keep covert... despite the fact we you know, brought in the Norwegians to help us out since one of their guys has been helping the US with dirty work since he was ten years old.

This is about as factual and close to reality as any of the NYT hitpieces about Trump.
 
Yes, and the US has been the baddies since Woodrow Wilson if not before. Treaty of Versailles and the acquising and facilitating the Balfour Declaration,
Colluding with Stalin. Allied terror bombing raids deliberately targeting civilians...etc.
We were middling at best about the treaty of Versailles (and our congress rejected the League of Nations proposal which literally made Wilson stroke out in anger), and did our damnedest to prop up the Weimar regime to survive all those stupid war indemnities the Anglo-French alliance insisted upon, you utter retard.
And how the fuck is a British statement saying "we're not sure the Jews actually run the world, but if they do we want to get on their good side" America's fault?
 
We were middling at best about the treaty of Versailles (and our congress rejected the League of Nations proposal which literally made Wilson stroke out in anger), and did our damnedest to prop up the Weimar regime to survive all those stupid war indemnities the Anglo-French alliance insisted upon, you utter retard.
And how the fuck is a British statement saying "we're not sure the Jews actually run the world, but if they do we want to get on their good side" America's fault?
Nigh a million German civilians died during blockade in 1918.and 1919. At best the US is complicit in this, and the treary of Versailles, but I would argue the culpability goes beyond mere complicity, especially when the reason for getting the war was because the Lusitania was sunk after being given fair notice it is a fucking war zone.

Right, how is is Jacob Schiff and allowing international Jewish finance to be seated in our country our fault.... For tolerating it? Allowing it to happen?

For those reading along I highly recommend this podcast from Martyrmde, in which he juxtaposes our treatment of the German people after WWI with how we fucked over the Russian people for handing us a bloodless revolution and ending the cold war.

The US are NOT the good guys,vhave not been for a century, and that's without discussing allied bombing raids, signing off Stalin's and Churchill's decision to move the borders of the USSR, Poland, and Germany with three match sticks (which caused 1.5 million German civilians to die etc),.for even entertaining at all something like the Moegenthau plan or allowing a cable of likes.lole that in our seats of power.

Go peddle your American exceptionalism horseshit to someone else. You probably listen to Lee Greenwood for the love of Christ.
 
Cool. Now tell me why and how a story full of inconsistencies that doesn't match the actual facts on the ground and relies upon a single anonymous source that somehow knows every single detail of a covert operation the Biden Admin supposedly went to painfully long lengths to keep covert... despite the fact we you know, brought in the Norwegians to help us out since one of their guys has been helping the US with dirty work since he was ten years old.

This is about as factual and close to reality as any of the NYT hitpieces about Trump.

Government conspiracies get exposed sometimes, have you not ever paid attention? People talk. Do you want me to list out all the "conspiracy theories" that turned into conspiracy facts? That's a pretty long fucking list.

How about we try this approach instead. You list out all the cool shit the CIA has been behind that hasn't backfired on the American people in some way. That way we can make this exchange shorter and more efficient.
 
Government conspiracies get exposed sometimes, have you not ever paid attention? People talk. Do you want me to list out all the "conspiracy theories" that turned into conspiracy facts? That's a pretty long fucking list.

How about we try this approach instead. You list out all the cool shit the CIA has been behind that hasn't backfired on the American people in some way. That way we can make this exchange shorter and more efficient.
Nice job with those goalposts. You a Romanian soccer player? Is there some reason you cannot admit that you got snookered by Hersh's obvious bullshit?
 
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