Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!

[Oddjob OTP]

The Silmarillion has some incredible ones, but I get your point. I like how demons are actually treated as demonic in Frieren. It seems like since the DxD days most of "demonkind" has been made into fetish objects or tragic victims. Frieren shows you how evil demons can truly be, by manipulating human emotions with speech. How the demons think words have magic powers because they can make humans do what they want with them.

My hypothesis is this is one of those lost in translation things. When Nips started to adapt western demons they shoved them into eastern demon tropes; yeah they are evil and eat people but you can make deals with them and it's not as though they are antithetical to human life and their win condition is to damn your soul to eternal torment. If you're in a slant eye nip mindset where your mythology is a bunch of Buddhist, Taoist, Shintoist, and just generally animalistic forces duking it out and there's no Absolute Right and Absolute Wrong and if you fuck it up you're probably just going to die and be reincarnated as a duck for a while then UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU FUCK THE DEMON is a hard sell.

The western world has become pretty bad on this subject too, partially because Anime is more compelling than western stories over the last 50 years in general but also because the intellectual and creatives involved in the production and consumption of fantasy have become almost universally atheist and having relatable and sympathetic demons is somehow still defying expectations when 90% of media does it.

 

[Lone MacReady II]

to the point you outright expect angels to eventually appear and be the greater evil.

My hypothesis is this is one of those lost in translation things. When Nips started to adapt western demons they shoved them into eastern demon tropes; yeah they are evil and eat people but you can make deals with them and it's not as though they are antithetical to human life and their win condition is to damn your soul to eternal torment.

I guess we can call it "SMT syndrome".

This week on Spy Family, a murderous mama begins to take bodies. Mmmppff

 

[God of Nothing]

I guess we can call it "SMT syndrome".

The Japanese are weird with western stuff, yeah. It can be interesting, but it can also be really bland.

This week on Spy Family, a murderous mama begins to take bodies. Mmmppff
New project.mp4

simp no simping!
simp no simping!
she's average at best

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

The Silmarillion has some incredible ones, but I get your point. I like how demons are actually treated as demonic in Frieren. It seems like since the DxD days most of "demonkind" has been made into fetish objects or tragic victims. Frieren shows you how evil demons can truly be, by manipulating human emotions with speech. How the demons think words have magic powers because they can make humans do what they want with them.

It seems like modern Japanese fiction, particularly high fantasy/isekai just has a completely different definition of "demon" than what would traditionally be the case. Often times "demons" are just fantasy beastmen rather than the raw engine of death, destruction and evil that western fantasy understands them to be. Probably due to much stronger Judeo-christian influence in western media, albeit largely by proxy in high fantasy due to Lord of the Rings being so integral in shaping it.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Just wanted to post that aside from my usual 80’s and 90’s anime viewing and current day seasonal anime viewings, I will be taking my time out to watch Heavenly Delusion in full. Thankfully, I managed to catch up to the manga‘s recent chapter so I can see what has changed and what has not.

Spoiler

Plus, I have noticed on MyAnimeList that they kept comparing this to Promised Neverland, and I’m trying to figure out why,

 

[WelperHelper99]

My hypothesis is this is one of those lost in translation things. When Nips started to adapt western demons they shoved them into eastern demon tropes; yeah they are evil and eat people but you can make deals with them and it's not as though they are antithetical to human life and their win condition is to damn your soul to eternal torment. If you're in a slant eye nip mindset where your mythology is a bunch of Buddhist, Taoist, Shintoist, and just generally animalistic forces duking it out and there's no Absolute Right and Absolute Wrong and if you fuck it up you're probably just going to die and be reincarnated as a duck for a while then UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU FUCK THE DEMON is a hard sell.

The western world has become pretty bad on this subject too, partially because Anime is more compelling than western stories over the last 50 years in general but also because the intellectual and creatives involved in the production and consumption of fantasy have become almost universally atheist and having relatable and sympathetic demons is somehow still defying expectations when 90% of media does it.

I'll say this much, it was immensely satisfying to see a old school demon. They aren't your friend. Even if you bargain with them, you'll always lose, and they are inherently prideful, which is a BAD thing. Imagine that, pride being treated as the sin that it is!

What I find funny is the youtube reaction (I won't say general)

Look at that title. He's shocked that a TELEVISION show doesn't have the same restrictions as Youtube. Bitch, Anime has been courting with suicide for years, you think shit has changed? Fuck no. The Japs still know how to tell a bitch to kill themselves unlike your pussy ass.

 

[BananaSplit²]

Look at that title. He's shocked that a TELEVISION show doesn't have the same restrictions as Youtube. Bitch, Anime has been courting with suicide for years, you think shit has changed? Fuck no. The Japs still know how to tell a bitch to kill themselves unlike your pussy ass.

Generally depends when the anime show is aired, but I tend to not follow anime adaptations of mangas often because they're toned down either in violence, sexual content or even crude language. Frieren is a very nice exception but it's also broadcasted fairly late in the evenings hence why it could avoid a lot of censorship:



And the fact it's handled by Mad House really does help in boosting the franchise's popularity.

 

[Catgirls are Love]

What I find funny is the youtube reaction (I won't say general)
Look at that title. He's shocked that a TELEVISION show doesn't have the same restrictions as Youtube. Bitch, Anime has been courting with suicide for years, you think shit has changed? Fuck no. The Japs still know how to tell a bitch to kill themselves unlike your pussy ass.

Wait for the Persona 3 remake (called Reload) that comes out in a couple months and see how many lose their shit; who knows, there might even be an eventual televised anime adaptation this time around instead of just a series of movies.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Generally depends when the anime show is aired, but I tend to not follow anime adaptations of mangas often because they're toned down either in violence, sexual content or even crude language. Frieren is a very nice exception but it's also broadcasted fairly late in the evenings hence why it could avoid a lot of censorship:

View attachment 5486310

And the fact it's handled by Mad House really does help in boosting the franchise's popularity.

Well look, I'd be surprised if pokemon suddenly had Pikachu telling nigger demons to kys, kids watch that. Frieren ain't a kids show. It's Japanese LOTR made by Madhouse who have seemingly gotten their shit back in gear after many years- look I like their shows, but it's been a while since they've made a Hellsing-, that's not a kids show, that's a epic in the making.

And I will say this, the lack of cursing just makes the violence hit home harder. I don't expect anime elf Gandalf to say "oh shit, oh fuck", I expect her to be a badass.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

Decades of edgy atheists, porn and quirky evil characters have defanged demons, to the point you outright expect angels to eventually appear and be the greater evil.

I think it’s a weird detachment from people actually reading the Bible and just taking critics doing very self-serving readings.

Typically the Angels are always very direct in what they say. There‘s no mixing words, it’s either a warning, explanation, or caring out a previous warning. LOTR portrayed the Valar (archangels, basically) as being unaware of Evil and initially unable to comprehend why Melkor is being a faggot.

There’s a weird thing where people took Satan in Paradise Lost as a hero when he’s very clearly a villain protagonist who literally lies about his intents and seethes at every chance. The ScrewTape letters write them as legalistic assholes who will cannibalize each other.

 

[Shining Wit]

Anyone else imagines Berserk's Skull Knight talking in Skeletor voice?

Always been Keith David for me

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It seems like modern Japanese fiction, particularly high fantasy/isekai just has a completely different definition of "demon" than what would traditionally be the case. Often times "demons" are just fantasy beastmen rather than the raw engine of death, destruction and evil that western fantasy understands them to be. Probably due to much stronger Judeo-christian influence in western media, albeit largely by proxy in high fantasy due to Lord of the Rings being so integral in shaping it.

It's more of an english thing I think. More appropriate reasoning is Japanese century-old mistrust of Christians with the added devastation the USA caused them in ww2. I also heard something about the Lost Tribes being an inspiration to SMT but that seems like a lot of autism to sift through.

There’s a weird thing where people took Satan in Paradise Lost as a hero when he’s very clearly a villain protagonist who literally lies about his intents and seethes at every chance. The ScrewTape letters write them as legalistic assholes who will cannibalize each other.

My guess is that people project their personal failings into Satan and that makes him a tragic villain in their eyes. Either by stupidity or because they refuse to accept god as a pure good. The "better rule in hell than serve in heaven" especially is one of the more retarded lines that are repeatedly quoted considering hell is a prison, making the line a literal cope and seethe.

 

[WelperHelper99]

My guess is that people project their personal failings into Satan and that makes him a tragic villain in their eyes. Either by stupidity or because they refuse to accept god as a pure good. The "better rule in hell than serve in heaven" especially is one of the more retarded lines that are repeatedly quoted considering hell is a prison, making the line a literal cope and seethe.

This always has been such edgy cope to me. God doesn't send good people to hell. He doesn't make mistakes. Most people aren't ending up there. But then you have le epic reddit Athiest that thinks mom taking him to church as a kid was a war crime, so he ends up hating God... for some reason. You don't need to be religious to know that demons aren't friendly. Every depiction of them for thousands of years has been monstrous and evil. Even the old Japanese depictions, while they're a bit more on the trickster side, they'll still eat you if you aren't careful.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

It's more of an english thing I think. More appropriate reasoning is Japanese century-old mistrust of Christians with the added devastation the USA caused them in ww2. I also heard something about the Lost Tribes being an inspiration to SMT but that seems like a lot of autism to sift through.

My guess is that people project their personal failings into Satan and that makes him a tragic villain in their eyes. Either by stupidity or because they refuse to accept god as a pure good. The "better rule in hell than serve in heaven" especially is one of the more retarded lines that are repeatedly quoted considering hell is a prison, making the line a literal cope and seethe.

This always has been such edgy cope to me. God doesn't send good people to hell. He doesn't make mistakes. Most people aren't ending up there. But then you have le epic reddit Athiest that thinks mom taking him to church as a kid was a war crime, so he ends up hating God... for some reason. You don't need to be religious to know that demons aren't friendly. Every depiction of them for thousands of years has been monstrous and evil. Even the old Japanese depictions, while they're a bit more on the trickster side, they'll still eat you if you aren't careful.

The line in the poem (paradise lost is an epic poem, similar to Beowulf) is said right as he fucking leaves because Hell is a burning pit and the fallen angels literally built Pandemonium out of weapons, armor, chariots, and parts of themselves.

It’s the most ironic fucking line in the poem because he says as he fucks off to Eden and he openly muses that why would you want to be the king of a shit heap.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

What the fuck is going on in malice i am on 53 currently and i dont even know who to trust everyone seems to lie in the manga.

 

[斯尼 德之王]

The western world has become pretty bad on this subject too, partially because Anime is more compelling than western stories over the last 50 years in general but also because the intellectual and creatives involved in the production and consumption of fantasy have become almost universally atheist and having relatable and sympathetic demons is somehow still defying expectations when 90% of media does it.

Gay, lame and cringe.

Hilarious to claim that socially incompetent NEET's can somehow make compelling storytelling.

 

[Michael Wade]

I honestly recommend people to just drop it post L getting an L against Light. A good Karma Houdini ending is better than what happens later. That said, the ending is honestly better in the anime. It's a bit more dignified.

I hated the manga due to it outright saying and implying there's no afterlife. Made everything feel hollow and pointless. Id argue it was a good story otherwise.

Despite how much time has passed, they've never learned Haruhi's core lesson, moe does not work in real life. Just replace "moe" with anime in general, same principle.


The Silmarillion has some incredible ones, but I get your point. I like how demons are actually treated as demonic in Frieren. It seems like since the DxD days most of "demonkind" has been made into fetish objects or tragic victims. Frieren shows you how evil demons can truly be, by manipulating human emotions with speech. How the demons think words have magic powers because they can make humans do what they want with them.

Ahh Bible accurate demons. Now I'm interested.

There's no such thing as a good demon. Not a single one. They are like corrupt machines, incapable of understanding or doing good. It has been said that demons when confronted over betraying God acknowledge it as a mistake. Yet when asked if they would do it again, they say yes. They are completely corrupted and corroded by their sin.

The only temporary pleasure they have is in bringing as many souls down to their level as possible. Even then, it's a hollow joy.

And while we are at it true magic is basically the same dam thing as well. It's like playing with Russian roulette on your best day. Every successful roll is there for you to put your soul on the blackjack table till you lose it.

Honestly lord of the rings had it right. The only real magic comes from God and his angels.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Gay, lame and cringe.

Hilarious to claim that socially incompetent NEET's can somehow make compelling storytelling.

More compelling, and it was not a high bar

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Despite how much time has passed, they've never learned Haruhi's core lesson, moe does not work in real life. Just replace "moe" with anime in general, same principle.

Wasn't it Lucky Star that joked about clumsy moe characters only appealing in fiction because in reality you'd eventually lost patience at a girl that constantly fucks up your things no matter how cute she is?

 

[sasazuka]

There's no such thing as a good demon. Not a single one.

Except for Vignette.