Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!

[LightDragonman1]

You know, at the risk of sounding like a lolicon, Prisma Illya is actually my third favorite animated Fate work, after Zero and Heaven's Feel. I just think that it has far better pacing and character interaction than most of the other ones, which probably has to do with the fact that it is adapted from a manga as opposed to a light novel or video game. Oath Under Snow in particular rivals Zero and HF in terms of quality imo.

Plus, it's nice to see Illya get a break for once.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I will throw this in, the Deen animation is the worst compared to the others.

Fate has gotten allot of adaptations.

Watching guide. Do not start with Fate UBW.

Fate Zero.

The nasuverse works on multiverse theory. Zero is the first. From there UBW by UFOtable as its finished, be careful there's an awful movie by DEEN. It sucks, do not watch it! Then HF 1, 2, 3, three was supposed to be out but, y'know. The DEEN anime is actually not nearly as bad as say a certain adaptation of Tsukihime that does not exist and if you like everything else, meh, maybe you'll like it.

From there you have the larger Fateverse

Extra. Beautifully animated by Shaft, a gorgeous mess that will leave you in rage if you liked the game series. Still worth watching.

Apocrypha. The glorious divisive one. I like Apocrypha, other people loathe it. It's set in an alternate universe where instead of summoning an avenger, the Einzberns summoned a Ruler.

Illya Prisma. You'll be turned off by the look. Don't be. The series is solid and Oath in Snow alone is worth giving a look see. Some Yuri crap, but that's what the scroll function is for.

FGO. There is a movie, watch that first. Camelot is supposed to have been released. Babylonia.

Odds and ends.

Emiya Kun, Carnival Phantasm. Sub only, but absolutely fan service goodness.

I think the best place to start with Fate is with the VN as Zero is not a good place to start as even the creator said it was not a good place to start. Furthermore, Zero gives false expectations about the rest of the series and will spoil you on twists that were in the later routes (especially the Fate route and Heaven's Feel). Starting with Zero is like starting to watch Star Wars with the prequels first.

Honestly the issue with the watch order for Fate is that there is no really good adaptation of the Fate Route as DEEN's adaptation was good except for the parts where they added plot points from the other routes those being:

Spoiler

- Sakura being revealed as Rin's sister

- Medea's extended role with Kuzuki from UBW

- Saber vs Assassin and Rin vs Sakura

- Rin and Shirou splitting off early on

There are some technical issues and inconsistencies with DEEN's adaptation, but it is probably a good way to introduce yourself to Fate as it provides the basics. But if you do not want the stuff with the other routes, there is a cut out there that gives a more faithful experience.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I read Goodnight PunPun and I wanna die.

I took a break after volume seven, I believe (whatever volume chapter 67 is). Haven't gotten back into it, thought I would. But now I have to start over because it's been a couple of years and I need to remember some things.

I have to start over...

I think the best place to start with Fate is with the VN as Zero is not a good place to start as even the creator said it was not a good place to start.

Lol too late for me. But I kinda forgot most stuff because it was so pretentious and over-the-top for me to really take seriously.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

I recently have gotten into Kenganverse with Kengan Ashura & Kengan Omega & they're pretty great. Only in manga form tho, the Netflix anime is beyond bad in many ways.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Anyone else tried This Village Sim NPC Could Only Be Human? It's pretty kinda slow to update, but I've been really enjoying it. It's about this 30yo NEET who gets a PC game as part of a promotion. The game is basically supposed a god simulator game, but the characters turn out to be real people in another world.

 

[CrazyRandomZyn]

I think the best place to start with Fate is with the VN as Zero is not a good place to start as even the creator said it was not a good place to start. Furthermore, Zero gives false expectations about the rest of the series and will spoil you on twists that were in the later routes (especially the Fate route and Heaven's Feel). Starting with Zero is like starting to watch Star Wars with the prequels first.

Honestly the issue with the watch order for Fate is that there is no really good adaptation of the Fate Route as DEEN's adaptation was good except for the parts where they added plot points from the other routes those being:

Spoiler

- Sakura being revealed as Rin's sister

- Medea's extended role with Kuzuki from UBW

- Saber vs Assassin and Rin vs Sakura

- Rin and Shirou splitting off early on

There are some technical issues and inconsistencies with DEEN's adaptation, but it is probably a good way to introduce yourself to Fate as it provides the basics. But if you do not want the stuff with the other routes, there is a cut out there that gives a more faithful experience.

Speaking of Fate, I adore Fate/Zero's dub to bits and the beginning in which evil priest has an Assassin Servant to be sacrificed...gored to death by Gilgamesh was a great surprise
I can watch the first anime later on both Tubi. And Crunchyroll. but for now, it's in my mental dumpster.

It's not bad, it's actually very good. But very bleak. Goodnight Punpun is misery porn done right, not like whatever the fuck The Last Of Us 2 was trying to be.

I assumed it was "Bible Black" bad, and I watched that despite reservations it might have given my PC a virus from the site.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Speaking of Fate.
The best starting point the original VN, the sequel Hollow Atraxia is also good and adds to the lore.
Fate Zero is next.
After that you can watch/read/play just about everything as long as you go chronologically within the series (except the Fate Extra anime which is weird).
I also think the Illya anime is cute and fun despite the fanservice.
If you want to watch Carnival Phantasm I'd advise to at least play Tsukihime to get the most out of the jokes.

 

[jspit]

You know, at the risk of sounding like a lolicon, Prisma Illya is actually my third favorite animated Fate work, after Zero and Heaven's Feel. I just think that it has far better pacing and character interaction than most of the other ones, which probably has to do with the fact that it is adapted from a manga as opposed to a light novel or video game. Oath Under Snow in particular rivals Zero and HF in terms of quality imo.

Plus, it's nice to see Illya get a break for once.

It's got some fan service that'll put people off. But from start to finish its a love letter to FSN. That last season, oooof. The fight sequence was perfect, and in the manga, don't know if you've read ahead, but it happens.

I think the best place to start with Fate is with the VN as Zero is not a good place to start as even the creator said it was not a good place to start. Furthermore, Zero gives false expectations about the rest of the series and will spoil you on twists that were in the later routes (especially the Fate route and Heaven's Feel). Starting with Zero is like starting to watch Star Wars with the prequels first.

Honestly the issue with the watch order for Fate is that there is no really good adaptation of the Fate Route as DEEN's adaptation was good except for the parts where they added plot points from the other routes those being:

Spoiler

- Sakura being revealed as Rin's sister

- Medea's extended role with Kuzuki from UBW

- Saber vs Assassin and Rin vs Sakura

- Rin and Shirou splitting off early on

There are some technical issues and inconsistencies with DEEN's adaptation, but it is probably a good way to introduce yourself to Fate as it provides the basics. But if you do not want the stuff with the other routes, there is a cut out there that gives a more faithful experience.

Lot to unpack here.

First, I start by assuming that not everyone will be willing to play the VN. It's not widely available, though it should be! Of course its better than any of the adaptations. But I was doing anime only. If we were talking other stuff, I'd have mentioned Extalla.

Comparing Zero to the prequels?

Let's say I disagree. I believe the background info Zero provides adds heft to the plot of Fate, UBW, and HF.

There are issues other than the Fate route not getting a good adaptation, such as the limits of television versus a novel. Deen's adaptation works better if you view it like Nasu's Extra Encore. It's own thing for people who maybe didn't read the VN.

 

[CrazyRandomZyn]

Oh, another Kiwi mentioned Umineko and I have one hefty volume (after many years of searching through every bookstore, jfc). I agree with the general consensus of the Fandoms that the manga adaptations are better, though Higurashi is more widely available.

Finally am watching the original One Piece after years of putting off after the 4 kids 'adaptation' finished it's run (one guy actually admitted to me he liked that trash!!
So far so good (the One Piece manga and anime; yes I know I'm way behind)
Luffy is best boi. the 4kids entertainment dub suited him, I guess but ruined his refreshing bluntness. The only thing they got right in the opening ( Nami's not shy; Luffy's gonna be king!!) and don't get me started on how they butchered the cook

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Speaking of Fate, I adore Fate/Zero's dub to bits and the beginning in which evil priest has an Assassin Servant to be sacrificed...gored to death by Gilgamesh was a great surprise
I can watch the first anime later on both Tubi. And Crunchyroll. but for now, it's in my mental dumpster.

Going to warn you while the first anime is good in places, it has some bad animation at parts but is a good starter, though the fan-edit is also good.

Lot to unpack here.

First, I start by assuming that not everyone will be willing to play the VN. It's not widely available, though it should be! Of course its better than any of the adaptations. But I was doing anime only. If we were talking other stuff, I'd have mentioned Extalla.

Comparing Zero to the prequels?

Let's say I disagree. I believe the background info Zero provides adds heft to the plot of Fate, UBW, and HF.

There are issues other than the Fate route not getting a good adaptation, such as the limits of television versus a novel. Deen's adaptation works better if you view it like Nasu's Extra Encore. It's own thing for people who maybe didn't read the VN.

Well I didn't compare Zero to the prequels in terms of quality but in terms of the experience you'd get by watching it first then going to the originals because watching Zero first makes you question things that shouldn't really be questioned.

Also I heavily disagree with Zero adding heft to the other routes because Zero was meant to be viewed as a tragedy where you knew things were going to be fucked from the beginning especially given there was the timer at the end of each episode which anime-only fans commonly do not know it's purpose. Furthermore, Zero made a lot of people give UBW false expectations of being the "Sequel" to Zero which it doesn't which resulted in people complaining about how Shirou is a highschool student who isn't as "cool" as Kiritsugu and Zero undermines various plot twists in Fate/Stay Night which include:

Spoiler

- Saber being King Arthur (though tbf pop culture sort of gave that one away like Luke being Vader's son)

- Kirei being evil and killing Rin's father with the dagger he gave her

- Gilgamesh being a servant from the fourth war

- Illya having the same father as Shirou

- Sakura's worm business

- The grail being corrupted

But while television does have more limitations compared to the VN, the Fate anime is probably still a good place to get started even if it is weird at points given it likely included the other plot elements due to Fate not being as big of a series as it was back then.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Ichigo Mashimoro is probably the one anime where I can’t just treat it as a regular anime.
I’m seriously saying that you’ve never seen anything like this before. It is slice of life to a tee.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Oh, another Kiwi mentioned Umineko and I have one hefty volume (after many years of searching through every bookstore, jfc). I agree with the general consensus of the Fandoms that the manga adaptations are better, though Higurashi is more widely available.

Apparently volume 13 (and maybe a couple of others) has become a bit harder to come by since sometime late last year, it's not being listed on Amazon as being available, and other places are showing the same thing based on links I've followed through Yen Press' page. It's weird. I was only able to get it because of a used copy, though the price was still more than I would've liked. The final volume should be coming in today, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it has finally been able to come out.

I've also noticed a few LoveCom volumes have gone up in price online as well for some reason, but far as I know that series' license hasn't expired.

 

[CrazyRandomZyn]

Apparently volume 13 (and maybe a couple of others) has become a bit harder to come by since sometime late last year, it's not being listed on Amazon as being available, and other places are showing the same thing based on links I've followed through Yen Press' page. It's weird. I was only able to get it because of a used copy, though the price was still more than I would've liked. The final volume should be coming in today, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it has finally been able to come out.

I've also noticed a few LoveCom volumes have gone up in price online as well for some reason, but far as I know that series' license hasn't expired.

I've heard that Umi has 17 issues....though I dropped the Higurashi/Umineko crossover, as I found it too weird for my tastes.
I've heard of LoveCom before perhaps I should read the manga!

 

[jspit]

Going to warn you while the first anime is good in places, it has some bad animation at parts but is a good starter, though the fan-edit is also good.



Well I didn't compare Zero to the prequels in terms of quality but in terms of the experience you'd get by watching it first then going to the originals because watching Zero first makes you question things that shouldn't really be questioned.

Also I heavily disagree with Zero adding heft to the other routes because Zero was meant to be viewed as a tragedy where you knew things were going to be fucked from the beginning especially given there was the timer at the end of each episode which anime-only fans commonly do not know it's purpose. Furthermore, Zero made a lot of people give UBW false expectations of being the "Sequel" to Zero which it doesn't which resulted in people complaining about how Shirou is a highschool student who isn't as "cool" as Kiritsugu and Zero undermines various plot twists in Fate/Stay Night which include:

Spoiler

- Saber being King Arthur (though tbf pop culture sort of gave that one away like Luke being Vader's son)

- Kirei being evil and killing Rin's father with the dagger he gave her

- Gilgamesh being a servant from the fourth war

- Illya having the same father as Shirou

- Sakura's worm business

- The grail being corrupted

But while television does have more limitations compared to the VN, the Fate anime is probably still a good place to get started even if it is weird at points given it likely included the other plot elements due to Fate not being as big of a series as it was back then.

I know, still, I couldn't resist. We just don't agree. For my take

Spoiler

- Fate/Zero communicates the stakes of Artoria and why you should care about her. It's the beginning of her arc that UBW resolves and gives her character that HF doesn't have time before she's blackened. Same with the end of the war and how horrible it was.

- Illya barely gets screen time in UBW before being killed. The single ep doesn't communicate the scope of things. It's just like Artoria above, FZ gives the characters background that gets skimmed for time constraints.

- Most of the twists aren't the big twists. Kirei being evil was telegraphed from your first meeting, the grail being messed up too. The big twists in Fate is Artoria nature, in UBW Emiya being Shirou, and HF that Kirei didn't die but is still alive to fuck with you at the end.

-There are always those people. That hate Sieg. That hate Shirou. I don't think Shirou being different then Kiritsugu is bad at all, its the contrasts that unites the themes of Shirou becoming his own hero and not Kiritsugu's

Either way, that's my view of it. I'm still on the fence with HF. They've got so much left to do in just one movie. Hope they can pull it off.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I've heard that Umi has 17 issues....though I dropped the Higurashi/Umineko crossover, as I found it too weird for my tastes.

Wait, what crossover?

But there's 21 omnibus volumes for Umineko. I still can't believe I've been able to have room for these big boys all this time.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I know, still, I couldn't resist. We just don't agree. For my take

Spoiler

- Fate/Zero communicates the stakes of Artoria and why you should care about her. It's the beginning of her arc that UBW resolves and gives her character that HF doesn't have time before she's blackened. Same with the end of the war and how horrible it was.

- Illya barely gets screen time in UBW before being killed. The single ep doesn't communicate the scope of things. It's just like Artoria above, FZ gives the characters background that gets skimmed for time constraints.

- Most of the twists aren't the big twists. Kirei being evil was telegraphed from your first meeting, the grail being messed up too. The big twists in Fate is Artoria nature, in UBW Emiya being Shirou, and HF that Kirei didn't die but is still alive to fuck with you at the end.

-There are always those people. That hate Sieg. That hate Shirou. I don't think Shirou being different then Kiritsugu is bad at all, its the contrasts that unites the themes of Shirou becoming his own hero and not Kiritsugu's

Either way, that's my view of it. I'm still on the fence with HF. They've got so much left to do in just one movie. Hope they can pull it off.

I still disagree because

Spoiler

- Both of your first points are what the Fate route was about. Artoria was a major player in that route and that was her story. Her story in Zero is actually out of character for her as she is way more honor-bound than usual and Urobuchi uses Zero to bully Artoria because while he is a good writer, he really loves to break honorable characters. Hell he glorifies Iskander as a better ruler than Artoria despite his rule being destroyed once he dies while Artoria was a strong king for Britain and her only flaw was being out of touch or too kind to her knights. Aside from that Artoria was a pretty ruthless ruler as shown in the Fate route which Zero ignores and treats her like a child despite being an adult.

- Illya's major character moments are in the Fate and Heaven's Feel routes, the movies cut most of it out along with Kirei's moments in favor of Sakura which makes sense but does injustice to their characters. Hell the most she got in Zero was just being a cute child instead of the sadistic mentally deranged child she is in the Fate route

- Kirei's evilness was meant to make you unsure and the scale of how fucked up he is which is the twist and the grail was never outright revealed to be bad until near the end of the Fate route. Also HF's big twist was Sakura and Rin being related as well as Sakura being the master of Rider/the real heir of the Matou's.

- The thing with Shirou's hate is that everyone expected him to be Kerry 2.0 or complain he was a generic "shonen protagonist" which given how Shirou's characterization in the anime is subtle to a degree compared to the VN, these complaints have manifested. Sieg's issue was that he was a bland protagonist in a cast of much more interesting characters along with how he had gotten stronger.

TL;DR Read the VN

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I still disagree because

Spoiler

- Both of your first points are what the Fate route was about. Artoria was a major player in that route and that was her story. Her story in Zero is actually out of character for her as she is way more honor-bound than usual and Urobuchi uses Zero to bully Artoria because while he is a good writer, he really loves to break honorable characters. Hell he glorifies Iskander as a better ruler than Artoria despite his rule being destroyed once he dies while Artoria was a strong king for Britain and her only flaw was being out of touch or too kind to her knights. Aside from that Artoria was a pretty ruthless ruler as shown in the Fate route which Zero ignores and treats her like a child despite being an adult.

- Illya's major character moments are in the Fate and Heaven's Feel routes, the movies cut most of it out along with Kirei's moments in favor of Sakura which makes sense but does injustice to their characters. Hell the most she got in Zero was just being a cute child instead of the sadistic mentally deranged child she is in the Fate route

- Kirei's evilness was meant to make you unsure and the scale of how fucked up he is which is the twist and the grail was never outright revealed to be bad until near the end of the Fate route. Also HF's big twist was Sakura and Rin being related as well as Sakura being the master of Rider/the real heir of the Matou's.

- The thing with Shirou's hate is that everyone expected him to be Kerry 2.0 or complain he was a generic "shonen protagonist" which given how Shirou's characterization in the anime is subtle to a degree compared to the VN, these complaints have manifested. Sieg's issue was that he was a bland protagonist in a cast of much more interesting characters along with how he had gotten stronger.

TL;DR Read the VN

Have to agree, while Zero has cool characters and fights, there is no real payoff for playing in the reverse order. Stay Night continues Saber, Gil and Illiya's story, UBW only really expands on Rin (a minor characterin Zero) and parallels Kiritsugu's shattered ideals, and Heaven's Feel is very much Sakura's and Kirei's story with a lot of world building.
And speaking about Kiritsugu's ideals, each VN plays them very differently: SN has Shiro being the non-comprising hero of justice. UBW has Shiro discovering the end point of the former route, accepting it but still following his ideals, though with some compromise and help. HF has Shiro full on betray his ideals out of selfishness.
Also Shiro is a really underappreciated character.

 

[CrazyRandomZyn]

Wait, what crossover?

But there's 21 omnibus volumes for Umineko. I still can't believe I've been able to have room for these big boys all this time.

There was a one issue/2 panel crossover by one of the manga artists in which Beatrice oversees one of the Higurashi arcs. I can only recommend it for beatrice's rape face at the end.
Lucky bastard, I only have the 2nd volume of Legend of the Golden Witch.

 

[Billy "the Bot" Bobson]

I didn't much care for Oyasumi Punpun but anytime it's mentioned I feel obligated to post this video:

Spoiler: Do Not Watch Until You've Finished Reading

 

[sasazuka]

Ichigo Mashimoro is probably the one anime where I can’t just treat it as a regular anime.
I’m seriously saying that you’ve never seen anything like this before. It is slice of life to a tee.

I'll be sure to give this Ichigo Mashimaro series a try sometime then.

Have you ever seen Minami-ke? The first season is from the same studio, Daume, and it has a somewhat similar dry sense of humour although with many differences, most importantly how each of the three sisters is in a different level of school and therefore there's a much larger supporting cast of characters.

Mitsuboshi Colors features kids around the same age as Matsuri and Ana and I strongly suspect the original mangaka, Katsuwo, might have been an assistant to Ichigo Mashimaro's Barasui as both manga, which run in the same magazine, Dengeki Daioh, had a very similar style, with another major clue being that Ichigo Mashimaro became a lot more infrequent around the same time that Katsuwo started publishing his own manga, starting with Eureka Seven AO followed by Hitori Bocchi and then Mitsuboshi Colors. Meanwhile, Barasui's art style in Ichigo Mashimaro has noticeably shifted towards being much softer than the solid linework it had up to November 2012.

Mitsuboshi Colors has more of a clothesline plot than Ichigo Mashimaro, with the "Colors" being the self-proclaimed protectors of Tokyo's Ueno Park and they have interactions with adults, a rare sight in Ichigo Mashimaro, that are more reminiscent of Yotsuba &! than the one fifth grade teacher in Ichigo Mashimaro who is always punishing that one character whose name I forget for seemingly no reason at all.

Gabrleil Dropout by Ukami, another Dengeki Daioh title that got an anime adaptation, is a little like what Ichigo Mashimaro would be if the characters were angel and demon girls on Earth (which actually kind of happened once in Ichigo Mashimaro proper when Miu bumped her head doing a backflip and dreamed of the afterlife) and has another major parallel to Ichigo Mashimaro in that both series take place in the same city, Hamamatsu, Shizuoka Prefecture, which is the largest city in Japan outside of Tokyo in terms of area but which is only 20th in terms of population.