Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!

[Secret Asshole]

@Secret Asshole The best examples of where expanding the manga / diverging can go great and terrible is Full Metal Alchemist. 2005 anime is a great intro and really does make you like the cast more, however as it goes on it loses idea of where it's going and the cool ideas rot on the vine. Brotherhood has the manga ending and I don't hate the manga ending where Ed basically gives up a huge part of himself to bring back Al (who isn't dead, but more or less existing with Truth.)

Demon Slayer isn't bad, but it's nothing new or inventive. Pig Nigga is the only one who really gets development and his bullshit asspulls are entertaining. I feel like that's my main issue with asspulls, if they're entertaining and explained in a way that fits a character I likely will not care.

Full Metal Alchemist is interesting because you get two views, one where the fucking anime goes batshit with an alternate WWII style plot and is just crazy and then you have the manga ending. I was never over the moon with FMA, but that's probably because I got into it late. I never really fell in love with it as a lot of people did.

Demon Slayer has its asspulls too much 'in the moment', not really just finding your footing through training or experience. I don't know, but I contrast it with Black Clover (which is probably my favorite Shonen) and it seems the asspulls are a lot more inventive than 'oh shit, now i get this breathing technique', its using their already given powers/abilities in clever and creative ways. Or its just something hinted at previously (Black Clover foreshadowing is pretty fucking crazy, as a lot of the stuff is foreshadowed very early on and set-up well, which you don't see in Demon Slayer all that much) that gets its time in the sun. Though Black Clover fights are just fucking knock out and drag out and go on for a good long while. I guess its another reason I like it better, because its a long battle and its got a good back and forth.

I think the problem is that in Demon Slayer, the Demons are just fucking OP as shit, and there's no time to learn, analyze or do anything tactically. Its all revealed in the fight, and the cast is already typically going all out, but the demon isn't, so you've basically written yourself into a situation where either everyone fucking dies or you have to have an asspull. Though at first it was just powering through with sheer willpower and team-work, but when the demons get batshit abilities like instant kill poison or splitting into 4,000 different demons, what are you supposed to do?

Though I guess that's where its basic appeal comes from. There's not much set-up to read into, there's not much foreshadowing. Its all condensed right there in that fight. You can just pick it up at any spot and there's really not much background to get.

Demon slayer isn't my favorite series by far but I don't really buy that the animation budget (probably funded through tax evasion btw) is the sole reason why it took off. A main factor yes, but the only no.
The art in the manga is kind of shit, yet it somehow the sold over 150 million volumes in japan alone and iirc the final volume sold like 5-6 million in its first 4 weeks on sale (you can blame it on japs having shit taste depending on how you view the series).
Compared that with other recent WSJ manga that surged in popularity from successful anime
SxF is still growing but at a much slower rate
JJK slowed down a few months after the anime and movie aired and is selling a little over half of what it did at its peak
CSM sales fell of a cliff after part 1 in the manga and the small anime boost it got only made things worse

You can argue that a popular anime will make the manga popular as a result, but I can name a few older shows where the adaptation is so popular the original manga is all but forgotten. I'd argue lupin III is an example since it's rare to come across someone that has read monkey punch's original series and maybe some series like Conan and DB since while I know their manga are still popular, most of their relevance comes form their anime series and newest movies,

Its honestly the basic premise and carried by the animation. I mean, like if anime were candy, Demon Slayer is a Hershey Chocolate Bar. There's nothing wrong with it, but its extraordinarily basic. Add to that wide appeal with amazing animation and you've got something with legs. I mean, its the base incarnation of the genre with expensive animation (yes, paid for through tax evasion, lol ufotable).

Also CSM is a bit of a different beast because when you swap out the main cast, you're going to crater. People wanted more of Denji/Control/Devil Hunter shit, and instead they end up with an autistic girl as a protagonist. It almost felt like a troll and it took a LONG time for part 2 of the manga to get going (IE: just continue what everyone wanted from part fucking one). I've dropped it at least 3 times, whereas I basically read CSM Part 1 all the way through until I caught up with publication and then read it monthly, and then read through it another time again.

I'm really honestly tired of creators getting a sequel and then swapping out the original cast because they're bored. It never fucking works. Its always fucking disappointing and they always go back to the original cast anyway. Which is what CSM Part 2 fucking did. Just fucking stop. Its even worse with CSM because a lot of other story shit was set up, but you have to slog through an entirely different story you're not even interested in to get there. Its not clever, its not fun. I get you've written these characters a lot and want something new, but you can do that without this dumb sleight of hand bullshit. And if you're that tired of writing them, maybe don't take the fucking check.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Demon Slayer had some heart at the beginning which separated it, as well as the massive animation budget Ufotable gave it. It being basic bitch helped skyrocket it to popularity, though I think the animation did that. Its also spoiled people because series without the budget begin to get shit-talked unnecessarily. Like a fucking half-second shot of a ladle going into water eclipses other shows entire episode animation budget. You can't make the comparison.

While the animation drew in the normies, Demon Slayer had a great setup and first season (barring last fight final asspull). A lot of shonen get mired in very long reaching protagonist goal (become hokage, gather 20 fingers) if at all, while Demon Slayer is a basic "we need to kill a motherfucker to save my sister", which is both succinct and easy to emphasize with. The vast majority of the first season is training and resting from difficult fights rather than just a deluge of fight into a fight, and the hero constantly reused his arsenal of moves for the current situation rather than bust a new move every fight. While yeah, fights are built on demons not immediately getting a kill with their ridiculous abilities, it's pretty much the norm for nearly every shonen since having a villain of the week with cool powers is more engaging than simply the encounters being harder due to power levels. Even the film had a great ending with the one of the strongest hashira dying while talking how while humans might be limited they will still win by sheer determination and improving in each generation.

The last arc felt like a betrayal of all those ideas. Even the villains backstories were halfassed compared to the incredibly powerful story of the villain in the previous arc. It's not even close to the level of terribleness of Attack on Titan, but it is very disappointing.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

If one types "demon slayer is bad" on YouTube, this is just one of the few handful amount of videos that come out:

For me, I'm just surprised that I am now seeing things like this.

 

[Inafune Fanfiction]

Not reading that essay.
Most mangaka are extreme autists and are not writers. They just want to draw hyper-realistic anime tits and ass all day. Requiring of them to make anything of substance that isn't coomershit will visibly torture them like holy water being thrown on a vampire.

Can't blame them for wanting to move on after 40 boring volumes with the same cast bitching about what to have for lunch that day. However it's also their fault for never trying to do anything interesting with them and turn everything into mundane slice of life garbage regardless of the genre.

 

[God of Nothing]

If one types "demon slayer is bad" on YouTube, this is just one of the few handful amount of videos that come out:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XX4v8cvrMqs
For me, I'm just surprised that I am now seeing things like this.

good animation goes a long away
if they got anyone other than ufotable, it probably would've been forgotten immediately after its first season

 

[Secret Asshole]

While the animation drew in the normies, Demon Slayer had a great setup and first season (barring last fight final asspull). A lot of shonen get mired in very long reaching protagonist goal (become hokage, gather 20 fingers) if at all, while Demon Slayer is a basic "we need to kill a motherfucker to save my sister", which is both succinct and easy to emphasize with. The vast majority of the first season is training and resting from difficult fights rather than just a deluge of fight into a fight, and the hero constantly reused his arsenal of moves for the current situation rather than bust a new move every fight. While yeah, fights are built on demons not immediately getting a kill with their ridiculous abilities, it's pretty much the norm for nearly every shonen since having a villain of the week with cool powers is more engaging than simply the encounters being harder due to power levels. Even the film had a great ending with the one of the strongest hashira dying while talking how while humans might be limited they will still win by sheer determination and improving in each generation.

The last arc felt like a betrayal of all those ideas. Even the villains backstories were halfassed compared to the incredibly powerful story of the villain in the previous arc. It's not even close to the level of terribleness of Attack on Titan, but it is very disappointing.

The thing is you can still elongate that out, and its kind of clear that it was meant to be longer than it originally was. There's just not enough build-up and background to it. Without being distracted by the animation, there's just too much asspull, and as I hate YouTube essayists, weirdfuckboi haircut has a point, there's just not enough background there. Its all fluff, style with no substance. Even the emotional moments kind of go and Tanjiro is card-board. He's not really allowed to develop and he doesn't even get fucking grumpy. Also I fucking hate Zenistu as well.

The last arc is basically a summation of those problems which have been building for a long time. As @God of Nothing said, if it weren't for Ufotable, I don't think it would have made it as far as it did. Its still a Hershey Chocolate bar, but people are treating it like its a swiss-made dark chocolate, expertly crafted, when its just mass produced coca. There's nothing wrong with it, but its nothing special and there's no real reason why it should be as popular as it is. Like being the only mangaka on the Times top 100 people is fucking holy lol worthy.

 

[vern]

good animation goes a long away
if they got anyone other than ufotable, it probably would've been forgotten immediately after its first season

I want to say it would of still been 50/50 because the tokyo revengers anime had some pretty shit animation but it still got a big manga boost from it, although your probably right about no one caring after its first season since no one was talking about the charismas showdown arc when it was airing.

 

[Cat Stew]

This is why Lord el melloi II case files is my favourite Fate spinoff. Because it mostly just revolves around smaller scale magical crime solving and asshole mage politics it resembles what drew me to Tsukihime and Fate way more than the weird magic computer shit in Fate/extra or pretty much everything about Fate/grand order.

speaking of el-melloi, do you know a place where i can find a translation of the manga past the iselma towers or am i stuck reading the translated light novels?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The thing is you can still elongate that out, and its kind of clear that it was meant to be longer than it originally was. There's just not enough build-up and background to it. Without being distracted by the animation, there's just too much asspull, and as I hate YouTube essayists, weirdfuckboi haircut has a point, there's just not enough background there. Its all fluff, style with no substance. Even the emotional moments kind of go and Tanjiro is card-board. He's not really allowed to develop and he doesn't even get fucking grumpy. Also I fucking hate Zenistu as well.

I wouldn't put Demon Slayer in the Bleach camp of style over substance, and there's nothing wrong with a pure shonen of the hero beating bad guys progressively without a need for character development. But you are right that as the show tries to reveal its lore it only undermines everything beforehand. By now it would have been better just not explaining anything since it's revealed to be just a Resident Evil plot with arcane terms mixed in. Ditto that Tanjiro's cock sucking have passed the point of being fun and now he is basically a Ubermensch with everyone talking how awesome he is.

I'm not surprised that YouTube is filled with the usual leeches trying to argue it's something deeper than a shonen show

 

[God of Nothing]

I wouldn't put Demon Slayer in the Bleach camp of style over substance, and there's nothing wrong with a pure shonen of the hero beating bad guys progressively without a need for character development. But you are right that as the show tries to reveal its lore it only undermines everything beforehand. By now it would have been better just not explaining anything since it's revealed to be just a Resident Evil plot with arcane terms mixed in. Ditto that Tanjiro's cock sucking have passed the point of being fun and now he is basically a Ubermensch with everyone talking how awesome he is.

I'm not surprised that YouTube is filled with the usual leeches trying to argue it's something deeper than a shonen show

Bleach is infinitely worse in that regard, but Demon Slayer shares a lot of its issues: underdeveloped cast, paper-thin setting, and asspulls galore. Demon Slayer had the decency to end earlier though.

 

[Spergichu]

Bleach is infinitely worse in that regard, but Demon Slayer shares a lot of its issues: underdeveloped cast, paper-thin setting, and asspulls galore. Demon Slayer had the decency to end earlier though.

Literally every other shounen that has ever existed shares some combination of those problems and more. Like everyone else has said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a generic shounen for what it is, especially if it has an above-average adaption that at least tries to fix some of the issues of the manga. The fact that people keep trying to oversell it as some artistic masterpiece when it isn't is the issue since it obviously sets expectations far too high.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Question about Twelve Kingdoms....

So Yoko is the main character right? But doesn't she end up demoted to extra towards the end? If she's the lead.......is it true they end up focusing on one of the male characters to the end? It sounds like The Golden Compass thing :/

 

[ZMOT]

Literally every other shounen that has ever existed shares some combination of those problems and more. Like everyone else has said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a generic shounen for what it is, especially if it has an above-average adaption that at least tries to fix some of the issues of the manga. The fact that people keep trying to oversell it as some artistic masterpiece when it isn't is the issue since it obviously sets expectations far too high.

I think it also matters the how and when, part of those issues appear if it runs too long/get milked too much, so the early stuff can actually be quite good.. before inevitably the threads fray.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Ok, I have caught up to Oshi no Ko in anime, and am basically caught up manga wise. Already had read way past where the show was gonna end before it aired, so i kinda felt this was gonna come up. Episode 6, Akane's suicide, and the media circus with the real life woman its based off of, notably now the mother going after the show, the fan reaction, and the censorship law.

I could watch JOEY'S thrilling monolgue on it, or go to the best hate site on the internet's thoughts on cyberbullying. My own thoughts are simple: suicide is terrible, the worst option, and i'm not even saying the internet can't get to you... that's when you log off. I know, it's fucking hard. But to ask the world to bend and pass draconian speech laws to protect you is asinine. And even then i ask where the parents were in all this. Even in the episode, the excuse was that they didnt use the internet and werent watching the tv show. Excuse me? You weren't watching the show with your daughter in it?? Fucking what? I'd be calling every day to cheer her on! I resonate with the emotional aspect, i feel the anger, but the logic is the same used to ban guns. Just as guns can save lives as well as take them, so can words, both are neutral.

I will credit the show this much, I do appreciate the DISCUSSION aspect, even if i DISAGREE with the conclusion. Nuance on the internet, what a novelty lol. It does bring up and if anything prove Josh's point about hollywood just being a abuse factory, if anything Oshi No Ko is holding back on us.

But what are your thoughts? I am still loving the show, even if it means I have to think and use my brain on some issues. What about you?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Ok, I have caught up to Oshi no Ko in anime, and am basically caught up manga wise. Already had read way past where the show was gonna end before it aired, so i kinda felt this was gonna come up. Episode 6, Akane's suicide, and the media circus with the real life woman its based off of, notably now the mother going after the show, the fan reaction, and the censorship law.
View attachment 5174666
I could watch JOEY'S thrilling monolgue on it, or go to the best hate site on the internet's thoughts on cyberbullying. My own thoughts are simple: suicide is terrible, the worst option, and i'm not even saying the internet can't get to you... that's when you log off. I know, it's fucking hard. But to ask the world to bend and pass draconian speech laws to protect you is asinine. And even then i ask where the parents were in all this. Even in the episode, the excuse was that they didnt use the internet and werent watching the tv show. Excuse me? You weren't watching the show with your daughter in it?? Fucking what? I'd be calling every day to cheer her on! I resonate with the emotional aspect, i feel the anger, but the logic is the same used to ban guns. Just as guns can save lives as well as take them, so can words, both are neutral.

I will credit the show this much, I do appreciate the DISCUSSION aspect, even if i DISAGREE with the conclusion. Nuance on the internet, what a novelty lol. It does bring up and if anything prove Josh's point about hollywood just being a abuse factory, if anything Oshi No Ko is holding back on us.

But what are your thoughts? I am still loving the show, even if it means I have to think and use my brain on some issues. What about you?

I haven't watched the show past the first few episodes, and it really feels like most people did likewise since the show had some conversation and memes about it at the start only to drop off the face of the earth the rest of the season.

 

[Cat Stew]

My own thoughts are simple: suicide is terrible, the worst option, and i'm not even saying the internet can't get to you... that's when you log off. I know, it's fucking hard. But to ask the world to bend and pass draconian speech laws to protect you is asinine. And even then i ask where the parents were in all this. Even in the episode, the excuse was that they didnt use the internet and werent watching the tv show. Excuse me? You weren't watching the show with your daughter in it?? Fucking what? I'd be calling every day to cheer her on! I resonate with the emotional aspect, i feel the anger, but the logic is the same used to ban guns. Just as guns can save lives as well as take them, so can words, both are neutral.

idk of any actors whove committed suicide over cyberbullying, must be a japanese thing, (suicide a vury honnurabor) i guess, and as i am not japanese, i just thought it was ridiculous

on suicide itself, there are many many reasons for it (although some are dubious), but the reason shown here, the escape reason, i believe is valid. sometimes people just feel that life isnt worth a meaningless struggle (or at least to them they think its meaningless). people can debate whether that struggle is meaningless or not, but meaning is subjective and what makes it such a tricky reason.

on the discussion of suicide, an important group being left out are those who are suicidal. i think we are too focused on prevention that any attempt to listen to the reasons for suicide is done with the pretense of debunking them to be false, untrue, lies, without taking them into genuine consideration.
we are already too focused on prevention, that some are more extreme and wish to censor any discussion entirely, stopping discussion and beginning a derivative, the discussion on the discussion of suicide. the nuance is warped, pushed out of one side and pulled to the extreme of the other, and i think its this warping of nuance is why suicide as a topic of discussion is so fucked.

im just a retard tho, so a lot of things that i said will be wrong.

 

[WelperHelper99]

haven't watched the show past the first few episodes, and it really feels like most people did likewise since the show had some conversation and memes about it at the start only to drop off the face of the earth the rest of the season.

I've been a fan since the manga, so I was gonna finish it. I recommend it honestly. I like it's insights into the entertainment industry

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I've been a fan since the manga, so I was gonna finish it. I recommend it honestly. I like it's insights into the entertainment industry

Like I said at the start of the season, the issue is that you can't have it both ways. Either shit on the industry or celebrate it.

 

[WelperHelper99]

idk of any actors whove committed suicide over cyberbullying, must be a japanese thing, (suicide a vury honnurabor) i guess, and as i am not japanese, i just thought it was ridiculous

on suicide itself, there are many many reasons for it (although some are dubious), but the reason shown here, the escape reason, i believe is valid. sometimes people just feel that life isnt worth a meaningless struggle (or at least to them they think its meaningless). people can debate whether that struggle is meaningless or not, but meaning is subjective and what makes it such a tricky reason.

on the discussion of suicide, an important group being left out are those who are suicidal. i think we are too focused on prevention that any attempt to listen to the reasons for suicide is done with the pretense of debunking them to be false, untrue, lies, without taking them into genuine consideration.
we are already too focused on prevention, that some are more extreme and wish to censor any discussion entirely, stopping discussion and beginning a derivative, the discussion on the discussion of suicide. the nuance is warped, pushed out of one side and pulled to the extreme of the other, and i think its this warping of nuance is why suicide as a topic of discussion is so fucked.

The suicide is what inspired that arc, there wasn't a suicide from the cast, I'll make that clear.

I get that, we don't talk about the suicidal themselves and their reasons for it. That's why I half praise this arc, it actually goes the fuck into it, and how life piles up on a person. It's controversial, and I think that's why it's good to talk about, like we are.

Like I said at the start of the season, the issue is that you can't have it both ways. Either shit on the industry or celebrate it.

I don't think it does praise it. Having read it, the longer it goes on, the more fucked it becomes. Some quit entirely, others stay on because of their dreams in spite of it, and others for profit. It lays bare the inner workings of how the industry runs, and how different people cope and work within it

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

"Rokudo's Bad Girls" and "The Goddess Café Terrace" have both ended their first official season with a 12 episode run. I sincerely hope that the former gets a second season after I watch it from beginning to end, because it was the best action/harem/school life manga that I read in the last few years.

It is no GTO, but I do want everyone else to watch it.