Opinion Against ‘Progress’

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Against ‘Progress’​

One sometimes hears, even from others on the conservative side of the political spectrum, that the past wasn’t really better than the present. After all, they say, look at how much we have gained through progress. Our lives are longer, our health care better, our food more plentiful and safer, the number of conveniences in our everyday lives are uncountable in their great quantity.

And, this argument typically continues, we must remember that alongside any virtues we might recognize in the past came a lot more suffering and pain.

Let’s look seriously at this argument.

First, it is not clear just how much suffering we are talking about when we discuss the past. We do not, after all, have much in the way of an empirical record of the everyday experience and psychological state of the typical member of a society in, say, the Middle Ages. Only elites in that time were literate and left written accounts of their experiences. The illiterate masses left no written accounts of their daily lives. Yet we have other evidence of their condition, and the unrelenting misery we assume was their lot appears to be an exaggeration on our part.

For example, the Inquisition left us something close to ethnographic reports of some French villages in the late 13th century, which are preserved today as a set of records called the Fournier Register. The historian Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie used these records to produce his magisterial book, Montaillou,which documented the history of a medieval French village of the same name. The attitude of the itinerant shepherds in the area, who were among the materially most impoverished, is described by Ladurie as “easy-going, often friendly.” He gives an account of the town’s inhabitants’ “convivial evenings … devoted to words rather than wine … The peasants … were connoisseurs of eloquence, even if they were no great orators themselves.”

There was significant respect for the rights and property of others, and a broad neighborliness as a moral baseline. Crimes of property were rare in a community where all knew all, and murder too was quite uncommon. Socializing involving music, dance, and prayer was an important part of their daily lives, and love in both its ideal and carnal forms was a constant feature of their interactions. They enjoyed midday naps, and they turned full workdays into half days whenever material necessity permitted. Ladurie speculates that “it may be that the people of Montaillou wept slightly more easily than we do, both in happiness and in sorrow.” And what is more human than tears?

Romanticization, of course, is to be avoided here. The people of Montaillou bathed infrequently, and they suffered for this unhygienic regime. They spent time mutually picking the lice off one another’s scalps and bodies. Yet even this behavior, which we might see with disgust, having never had to do it, is part of the social bond of reciprocity and exchange that linked them. Indeed, Ladurie describes it as “an ingredient of friendship … [that] impl[ied] relations of kinship or alliance.” We can see the sociality of the act still today in our primate relatives who have not yet invented soap and insect repellant.

If romanticization is a potential pitfall in my endeavor here, I respond that my opponents must take the same care with the tendency we moderns have to imagine that everyone who didn’t have a hot water shower in their home must have lived a life of intolerable suffering. It is only by historical presentism that we assume a lack of fulfillment among those of the past who lacked jet airplanes, antibiotics, and mail-in ballots (and even representative democracy!).

Peasant labor was terribly hard, it is undeniable. But the people in Ladurie’s narrative got to watch kings and queens walk the earth, and they believed those kings and queens were the elect of God. What do we have to compare to that? Watching LeBron on television score 20 points in the 4th quarter, or sitting en masse to watch Taylor Swift prance around on a stage and caterwaul in the distance?

I think they had it better.

And just what have we gained on them that is not narrowly technological? I pose this as a deadly serious question. Even what seems the most obvious advance—greater average longevity—must be properly understood. For what exactly does the average contemporary American do with the additional decades of life today? They use that time mostly to watch more vapid television and to listen to more contemporary “music” that consists of the endless repetition of the same two-note bass line and lyrics about revenge shootings and the actions of genitalia. They also play more hours of mindless video games on their phones. They drink many more sugar-filled drinks and eat much more carbohydrate-dense food, and because of this activity many of them pass the extra years they have taking many medications to keep their diabetes and the other pathologies created by their lifestyles (mostly) at bay.

On what grounds, then, do we consider such lives more fulfilled and human than those of the peasants depicted in Jean-François Millet’s painting The Angelus, who humbly pray in their potato fields the prayer that marks the conclusion of the workday? Yes, the Millet is just a painting, but Ladurie and other evidence suggests to us that it was inspired by people who really existed.

Those people of the past lived without all the technological advances we have, and yet they still built Notre-Dame and invented plainchant and designed and constructed vessels that made it all the way around the world driven by nothing but the power of the wind. Yes, we’ve been to the Moon. I do not think, however, I am the only person who finds Notre Dame and plainchant more moving inventions than a video of astronauts bouncing around on the Moon’s surface.

Even with our technological advantages, we are still outflanked on all sides by the same world that presented obstacles to our ancestors. The weather alone is a constant source of trouble to us. I was in Clearwater Beach this summer just a little over a week before a hurricane hit and flooded the restaurants and stores in which I had only just dined and shopped. Cities and many of the people living in them disappear in earthquakes in the news regularly. Much of what the natural world does to try to devour us remains largely beyond our control. Our antibiotics are, as we speak, being outmoded by microbes. Children still die of cancer, and that can reliably be expected to continue. In fact, more die of it now than did previously because of all the carcinogenic waste modernity has pumped throughout the environment. And now children die too in new ways those in the Middle Ages could not have imagined—e.g., in auto accidents, from bacteria in their mass-produced food, via insane school shooters, and by the industrial efficiency of modern medicalized abortion.

Few of us perhaps would willingly trade places with someone living without the advantage of antibiotics. But if we had lived in a world without antibiotics, we would never have known what a handy thing they are to have. Somehow, humans in the world before antibiotics developed ways to cope with the inevitability of loss—and note well, this inevitability is for them and for us. And as part of what many misunderstand as our progress, we are in the process of trying to dismantle the main institution—religion—that did that healing work for our forebears, in our foolish confidence that we have outgrown such benighted ways.
 
Romanticizing the distant past or the modern present is pointless. You'd have to depict a fantasy or believe in one for either to be perfect. Reality was usually more of a mixed bag and at times sometimes better, sometimes worse.

Just looking at the comparisons to Medieval Europe alone:
For every idealized peasant existence, there is a noble to remind you that feudalism and serfdom didn't go away for no reason.
For every grand cathedral or monument, there are cities being besieged for months and having its population starve to death or everything burnt down.

There was also that whole idea of revolting when leadership of the state sucked or had issues, as seen in an event called the Jacquerie which took place in the same century the Montaillou book did in the northern part of France. Here is some of the events of that:
This combination of problems set the stage for a brief series of bloody rebellions in northern France in 1358. The uprisings began in a village of St. Leu near the Oise river, where a group of peasants met to discuss their perception that the nobles had abandoned the King at Poitiers. "They shamed and despoiled the realm, and it would be a good thing to destroy them all."

The account of the rising by the contemporary chronicler Jean le Bel includes a description of horrifying violence. According to him,
"peasants killed a knight, put him on a spit, and roasted him with his wife and children looking on. After ten or twelve of them raped the lady, they wished to force feed them the roasted flesh of their father and husband and made them then die by a miserable death".

Examples of violence on this scale by the French peasants are offered throughout the medieval sources, including accounts by Jean de Venette and Jean Froissart, an aristocrat who was particularly unsympathetic to the peasants. Among the chroniclers, the one sympathetic to their plight is Jean de Venette, sometimes (but erroneously) known as the continuator of the chronicle of Guillaume de Nangis.

Jean le Bel speculated that governors and tax collectors spread the word of rebellion from village to village to inspire the peasants to rebel against the nobility. When asked as to the cause of their discontent they apparently replied that they were just doing what they had witnessed others doing. Additionally it seems that the rebellion contained some idea that it was possible to rid the world of nobles. Froissart's account portrays the rebels as mindless savages bent on destruction, which they wrought on over 150 noble houses and castles, murdering the families in horrific ways. The bourgeoisie of Beauvais, Senlis, Paris, Amiens, and Meaux, sorely pressed by the court party, accepted the Jacquerie, and the urban underclass were sympathetic. Village notables often provided leadership for some of the peasant bands, although in letters of pardon issued after the suppression of the rising, such individuals claimed that they were forced to do so.
 
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Feudalism sucked, being a peasant sucked. Romanticism over feudalism always baffles me. However it is correct that this infinite progress has made people miserable. There is no telos to the progress, it is progress for the sake of progress. It justifies itself. Christianity prevents this by giving a teleology of society equipping people with the means of living a godly life in the image of Christ. What progresses these means is true progress, and the progress must cohere with what the Bible and church traditions state. This creates a limit to the progress, there is a telos that which is living as Christ did and thus being happy and virtuous. Modern society eschews this by giving a telos of infinite wealth, infinite "freedom," infinite everything. Its whole premise is the Rousseauian ideal that humans are infinite, they are gods, they are just shackled by a society they are justified in changing to become infinite. A Christian worldview also creates a context in how you should understand all aspects of the world, how you should see money you earn, friends you make, videogames you play or make.
 
Progress: Just because you are going forward doesn't mean you are going somewhere better.

And currently, the 'progress' we are seeing is just regression under a different name as our elites are dead set on reducing the average man into a serf without all the privileges a serf would typically have. Like good food and a solid family for one.
 
The modern world does suck overall -- especially in Current Year -- yet it isn't all bad of course. But the past has arguably sucked even more, at least with civilization.

Feudalism sucked, being a peasant sucked.
That seems to be the goal with that "live in the pod and eat the bugs" BS: technocratic feudalism.

Progress: Just because you are going forward doesn't mean you are going somewhere better.
Leftists seem to believe that history is a one-way linear path of progress.
 
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Leftists seem to believe that history is a one-way linear path of progress.
They're Marxist. They think if they keep pushing progress, they'll get to utopia. We currently live under Critical Marxism. Critique until you get to utopia. You can't say what utopia is because then you're standing in the way of progress.
 
That seems to be the goal with that "live in the pod and eat the bugs" BS: technocratic feudalism.
Leftists seem to believe that history is a one-way linear path of progress.
The whole bugs thing is literally the elites trying to force their fetishes onto the populace like any lolcow with power. And just like lolcows, they become horribly surprised when people come up with ways to get around their bullshit to outright shutting it down. HWNDU is but a microcosm of this.

Also, leftists tend to be masochistic half-baked intellectuals and do not understand that history is much more than what the narrative tells them. They are useful idiots. Nothing more, nothing less. And once the job is done, they are all lined up against the wall and shot because they become threats to the Communist world they have made.
 
I feel a lot of traditionalists conflate all agrarianism with feudalism. Feudalism was not a good system at all, it was still elitist. The ideal should be that of the yeoman who owns his own land outright and tends and profits off of it. That's what the founding fathers of the United States intended, that's how the earlier Roman Republic worked. The industrial equivalent is the suburban nuclear family where the father works at a well paid factory or foundry job or his own family shop and owns his own house and yard outright. Feudalism was a system where you were rented land, it is no different from what the WEF want except they want an urban serfdom.
 
Progress doesn't make people miserable, people liked when TV and personal automobiles and painless dental surgery came along. And nobody forced you to partake of them if you liked the old way better.

Progress for the sake of progress done at the behest of midwit social tinkerers is what makes people miserable, being forced without input or option to embrace sexual deviancy, bugpods, encroaching surveillance of everything you write on social media, etc. And its all done at gunpoint by a government insisting that its all "to evolve forward as society for the betterment of all" as decreed (and paid for) by "experts".

If these ideas were any good? Were actually progress? They wouldn't have to force you to do it. We wouldn't need government grants to pay for it. People would want it and it would pay for itself.

It's all fake progress, forcing people to change so the planners of the change can pat themselves on the back for "bettered society" because change to them is always better.
 
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I agree with the article's sentiment
On some level, I do as well, but I think this is just globohomo propaganda, to condition people into believing they would be happier as peasants, living under the watchful eye of the elites, who expect us to view them as godlike entities.
Progress is not bad, if you seperate the wheat from the chaff. Modern (((progress))) however, is just mindless boundarie pushing.
 
There was significant respect for the rights
I suppose the protections the Framers had in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights emerged out of Minerva bosom? Did the Magana Carta come out of the ether?
They enjoyed midday naps, and they turned full workdays into half days whenever material necessity permitted.
They probably enjoyed mid day naps because they were both drunk, as alcoholic beverages were safer than water, and they were tired from back breaking work in the hot environment
is part of the social bond of reciprocity and exchange that linked them.
So was caring for each other during a Cholera epidemic.
we assume a lack of fulfillment among those of the past who lacked jet airplanes, antibiotics, and mail-in ballots (and even representative democracy!).
Why are we going to the 1200-1300. Antibiotics and jet airplanes were developed in the 1940's, while mail in voting came in about the 1900's.

Do we need to go back 600 years?
But the people in Ladurie’s narrative got to watch kings and queens walk the earth
KF Primitivism.png
I get to do that too for about a weeks pay with the bonus of luxury accommodations.
they still built Notre-Dame and invented plainchant and designed and constructed vessels that made it all the way around the world driven by nothing but the power of the wind.
Care to see how the sausages were made?
American do with the additional decades of life today?
We have the choice. That is what matters, the freedom to choose.

Personally, I like the freedom to choose my fate over subsistence farming.

just a little over a week before a hurricane hit and flooded the restaurants and stores
You mean the one that had TWO deaths?

Here is the first European record of a hurricane hitting Florida:
First European documented hurricane hitting Florida. Tristán de Luna y Arellano attempted to start a colony around present day Pensacola with a fleet of eleven to thirteen vessels, five hundred soldiers, a thousand to eleven hundred civilians, 240 horses, and supplies; the vessels landed at Pensacola Bay on September 14 and 15. On September 19, a "great tempest from the north", a "tropical storm", or "hurricane" blew for 24 hours and scattered the still-loaded ships. Several ships—four or five navios with topsails, a galleon with a small amount of Mexican silver, and a small barque sent east of the onshore camp on a coast-exploration mission—shattered to pieces "with great loss of life" and cargo.
So 4 to 5 Spanish ships of the line were sunk...with each ship having at least 200 people each, not to mention a galleon. That's about a 1,000.

Yet a pretty serious hurricane in 2023 Florida killed 2.

2 people, I guess that's the same as 1,000 people dying.
humbly pray in their potato fields the prayer that marks the conclusion of the workday?
Nothing like relief from back breaking labor. Imagine how they would be with a steel plow or even better nitrogen fertilizer.
In fact, more die of it now than did previously because of all the carcinogenic waste modernity has pumped throughout the environment.
We have more cancer now because we get older.
Children still die of cancer,
See my hurricanes assessment.
the process of trying to dismantle the main institution—religion—that did that healing work for our forebears, in our foolish confidence that we have outgrown such benighted ways.
Feel free to join the Amish*.

*Is that even possible?


As this was posted in the evening for most of the Farms users, I assume we are reading this with some source for light.

Below is how many hours of work it took for one hour of artificial light.
KF Primitivism 2.png
In the 1800's a person would need to spend 50 hours of work for one hour of light.

I will let Johnathan Franks close off my sperging:
riker-we-wont-go-back.gif
 
On some level, I do as well, but I think this is just globohomo propaganda, to condition people into believing they would be happier as peasants, living under the watchful eye of the elites, who expect us to view them as godlike entities.
Progress is not bad, if you seperate the wheat from the chaff. Modern (((progress))) however, is just mindless boundarie pushing.

I agree. That's why I said I'd happily go back to the 40s or 50s. They had a lot of the advancements we do today, at least the important ones like antibiotics and such, but American society was still intact and most Americans were patriotic, decent people. Our government hadn't been completely fucked by traitors who happily sell our people out for power and corporate/foreign money. Our media and entertainment industries hadn't yet given themselves over to total nigger and tranny worship. Our cities weren't yet overrun with worthless homeless people, illegal aliens, and criminals.
 
People whitewashing the past is just an annoying as people blackwashing it, though I can at least understand the latter since you have no shortage of horrific events in the past, while the former always add "but don't expect me to actually live according to those ideals".
 
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