Law Abolish the Jury?

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  • The jury system has been abolished in most countries.
  • Juries are supposed to be impartial, but they are typically biased and susceptible to media influence.
  • Juries often do not have the requisite knowledge to fully decide complex legal questions.
On paper, the jury is the paragon of democracy. But is it really?
The concept of the jury trial is often credited to King Henry II, who convened groups of 12 “free and lawful” men to decide disputes over land. The expansion of the British Empire spread the jury system throughout the globe with the reach of the setting sun. But, most Americans don’t know that their jury system is now an anomaly in the developed world.

The jury system was abolished in Germany in 1924, Singapore and South Africa in 1969, and India in 1973. Today, even in those countries where the jury system still exists, it is used only sparingly or as part of a “mixed court” that includes both laypersons and judges. The vast majority of all jury trials that occur today are held within the United States.

The Biased Jury​

The Sixth Amendment grants the right to an “impartial jury.” Herein lies the first problem. Nothing about today’s juries is impartial. The process of voir dire (jury selection) has transformed into a mini-trial in and of itself, with opposing counsel fighting vigorously not for impartiality but also for advantage. In essence, attorneys are fighting to secure jurors who are biased to think in ways that support their party's narrative while excluding those who are biased in the opposite direction.

Confirmation bias is the psychological tendency to seek out, attend to, and better recall information that confirms one’s pre-existing attitudes and beliefs, while at the same time discounting or ignoring information that is contrary to one’s views (see e.g., Nickerson, 1998). This type of bias can cause jurors to rely more heavily on certain pieces of evidence or arguments that support their worldview — a particularly insidious problem in trials with ambiguous or conflicting evidence. In today's hyperpoliticized environment, confirmation bias forms a potent problem for impartiality. For example, in one recent study from Anwar, Bayer & Hjalmarsson (2019), conservative mock jurors were more likely to convict defendants with Arabic names, whereas more feminist jurors convicted with greater frequency when the victim was a woman.

Attorneys have their own biases when determining who to try to exclude from the jury during voir dire. For example, prosecutors will often try to exclude Black jurors under the theory that they are less likely to agree with police and the justice system. “Peremptory challenges” allow a party to exclude any prospective juror without the need for any reason or explanation — just, poof, that juror is excluded. For decades, peremptory challenges have been used discriminatorily to exclude Black jurors. In the 1965 case of Swain v. Alabama, an all-white jury in Talladega County, Alabama, convicted a 19-year-old Black man of raping a 17-year-old white girl. The man was subsequently sentenced to death. During voir dire, the prosecutor had used six peremptory challenges to remove from the jury pool every Black individual eligible to serve. The Court’s review of records later revealed that not a single Black person had served on a criminal trial jury in Talladega County for more than a decade.

Although the 1986 case of Batson v. Kentucky outlawed removing prospective jurors solely due to their race, it did little to change the status quo. Prospective jurors can still be removed “for cause” with relative ease. An attorney need only make a reasonable argument that they wish to exclude the potential juror for some factor other than race, even if discrimination is actually their true motive. Indeed, data from the American Bar Association and Equal Justice Institute show that Black individuals are still excluded from juries at disproportionally high rates.

The extreme political polarization and racial strife in South Africa were actually at the crux of the nation's decision to abolish their jury system. Legislators feared that rampant racial prejudice would make it impossible to secure an impartial and fair jury.

Media Influence and Pre-formed Opinions​

Today’s 24/7 media coverage and our inextricable tethering to electronic devices further complicates impartiality. Consider the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. Although the judge instructed jurors not to discuss the case or watch any media related to the case, it is a fanciful dream to believe that each juror complied with this directive entirely. The only real protection against media influence is jury sequestration, meaning that jurors are isolated in hotels throughout the trial and deliberation. In extreme cases, televisions and laptops are removed from hotel rooms, and phone calls can only be made in the presence of a court official. Sequestration is a draconian measure that most judges do not like to impose. And, in high-profile cases, the media coverage that occurs prior to a trial has likely already influenced each juror’s opinions anyway. For example, a seminal meta-analysis of 23 articles involving a total of 5,755 participants and including 44 effect sizes found that exposure to negative pretrial publicity increased the likelihood of guilty verdicts (Steblay et al., 1999).

Ill-Equipped and Often Capricious Decision-Making​

Most jurors are not only inherently biased (as we all are to some degree!) but also are ill-equipped to complete their duty. Jurors with zero legal training are frequently tasked with deciding cases involving brain-melting issues like patent law or medical malpractice. Prospective jurors with experience in the subject matter at hand are usually excluded during voir dire because they “know too much.” As a result, juries often consist of people who are not fully able to understand the issues before them. Consider again the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Although the entire case revolved around the singular issue of self-defense, the instructions provided to the jury were 36 pages long and difficult for me (a practicing attorney) to understand. Today’s legal codes have simply evolved magnitudes in complexity compared to the times of our Founding Fathers.

Perhaps no one fears a jury more than a lawyer. We tend to advise our clients to avoid juries like the plague. This is because they are so utterly unpredictable. For attorneys, presenting a case before a jury is like taking a plunge from an unknown height. Countless jury verdicts have shocked the public over the years, from Casey Anthony’s acquittal to $28 billion in punitive damages awarded to a single plaintiff. Such verdicts might provide interesting fodder for water cooler talk, but they do nothing for the pursuit of uniform justice.

Moving From Jury Trials to Bench Trials

I contend that the United States should consider moving away from the standard jury process and instead shift toward “bench trials” in which a panel of judges decides a case. It is possible that the average trial would benefit greatly from adjudication by a team of trained legal professionals who swear an oath to remain impartial. Of course, because the right to a jury is enshrined in the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution, scaling back this fundamental right would require Herculean acts by Congress. That said, a formal inquiry into the risks and benefits of bench trials should be undertaken by established legal and psychological bodies in order to inform the public of this "alternative" to our centuries-old jury process.

There is no doubt that the jury system has valiant aims. But I question if it still comports with today’s society. The reality is that juries are seldom impartial and seldom equipped to understand the issues before them. The entire process also imposes a burden upon citizens who must take time away from their jobs, worry about their potential safety, and potentially be traumatized with the evidence they observe or stigmatized by the decisions they make. Not to mention the extraordinary amount of time that is consumed by the jury process. American court systems are notoriously backlogged and congested. As a result, prosecutors are often inclined to offer plea bargains to avoid a protracted trial, while defendants tend to accept them due to their fear of an irrational and unpredictable jury. The result is that 97 percent of all federal criminal cases end with a plea bargain. In the civil system, court dockets are so overwhelmed that parties regularly wait years before actually going to trial. Removing the jury process — from selection to deliberation — could seriously shorten the length of trials and allow more defendants to actually have their case heard by professionals equipped to understand their complex issues.
 
Sure, lets have politicians appoint judges and get rid of juries. It's not like the left is trying to dismantle the justice system strategically and these are two steps in their goals.
Kenosha County, Wisconsin, Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder, who presided over the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, caught a lot of shrapnel from observers over the course of the proceedings, mostly from those who felt Rittenhouse was guilty of a crime despite being found not guilty on all charges. Members of the Twitterati called him “clownish,” “dishonorable,” even a “blatant racist.”
...
Paradoxically, appointing judges may be the better system. When executives like the president appoint judges, those executives are held accountable. In the federal system, in which all judges and justices are appointed, the Senate conducts hearings and decides whether to confirm the president’s appointees. Consequently, the federal judiciary is bristling with the impeccable résumés of Ivy League graduates, published academics and former Justice Department superstars. Presidents know their selections have to withstand scrutiny, so they (usually) send only the best candidates to face the Senate.
 
I’d argue that the problem is not that jurors are exposed to media narratives before and during a trial, but that the media narratives themselves have a political bias.
The number of people out there (like Wil Wheaton, for instance) who thought throughout the trial that Rittenhouse had shot and killed three black men, and the constant lies of ‘rifle transported across state lines’ were real eye openers for a lot of people.

The fourth estate abandoning impartiality in favor of outrage, bias and clickbait in the service of a horrifying political/economic oligarchy is what has driven us to this point. So many articles are written with lies and manipulation to serve the interests of the elites that are terrified of whites and blacks saying to each other “it‘s not your people that are fucking my people… it’s rich people fucking us all and using the media to turn us against each other.”

I used to think that on the DOTR in my minecraft server we’d line up the lawyers, the politicians and the mega wealthy globalists. Now I think that manipulative journoscum should atone as well, by digging the mass graves that’ll be needed.
Indeed. Things like this, plus the constant doomposting re the Chinese Flu, have made more and more people utterly distrustful of the media, period. The media can now be depended on only to lie and push their own political agendas. Fuck that shit, and fuck the media.
 
If you don't trust a jury, it is your Constitutional right to request a Bench Trial.


I've served twice, thank you for insinuating I was too dumb to do my job properly in either case.
The last time I served the ones bitching and throwing a stink were the cantankerous old fucks trying to get out on a medical and the trashy moms who wouldn't let their precious darlings be entrusted to the court daycare center (which most of us jurors donated our windfall of earnings to). Really though, they didn't want the inconvenience of coming in to downtown to do the duty and it was obvious. Us working stiffs, from roofers, to insurance salesmen, to receptionists, to marketing managers, to artisanal yogurt makers, to gearjammers like myself showed up and stayed. I think one guy brought his 1-ton service truck (lord knows how he found parking) so he could go to work a later shift after we got dismissed.

It's the chronically lazy and entitled and incompetent who don't want to do it. Everybody else knows when there is a shitty but necessary job to do and will step up to take a bite of the turd sandwich when it is their turn.

The whole narrative of "juries are mongoloid dumb-dumbs" is a demoralization campaign in a push to remove the institution that totally ignores how people work and who can be counted on to be reliable. Good workers, whether white collar or blue, show up and do their duty.
 
The last time I served the ones bitching and throwing a stink were the cantankerous old fucks trying to get out on a medical and the trashy moms who wouldn't let their precious darlings be entrusted to the court daycare center (which most of us jurors donated our windfall of earnings to). Really though, they didn't want the inconvenience of coming in to downtown to do the duty and it was obvious. Us working stiffs, from roofers, to insurance salesmen, to receptionists, to marketing managers, to artisanal yogurt makers, to gearjammers like myself showed up and stayed. I think one guy brought his 1-ton service truck (lord knows how he found parking) so he could go to work a later shift after we got dismissed.

It's the chronically lazy and entitled and incompetent who don't want to do it. Everybody else knows when there is a shitty but necessary job to do and will step up to take a bite of the turd sandwich when it is their turn.

The whole narrative of "juries are mongoloid dumb-dumbs" is a demoralization campaign in a push to remove the institution that totally ignores how people work and who can be counted on to be reliable. Good workers, whether white collar or blue, show up and do their duty.
Youngest cheeselet got his first jury summons recently, and was looking forward to going. He wanted to see the whole selection process.
I think he was a little disappointed when he didn't have to go in.
 
Youngest cheeselet got his first jury summons recently, and was looking forward to going. He wanted to see the whole selection process.
I think he was a little disappointed when he didn't have to go in.
Jury duty is a unique people-watching and fact-finding opportunity. Which is why @Cyclonus is getting dogpiled. He went against the entire spirit of this website. Know your audience.

You raised your kids well.
 
Jury duty is a unique people-watching and fact-finding opportunity.
Nah, jury duty is for suckers and retards, the kind of people who think voting matters and close up at work every day for 30 unpaid minutes and volunteer for the army the second they hear there's a foreign war in a country they've never even heard of before. If it was really a "unique opportunity" you wouldn't need to be coerced into it.
 
The jury system was abolished in Germany in 1924, Singapore and South Africa in 1969, and India in 1973. Today, even in those countries where the jury system still exists, it is used only sparingly or as part of a “mixed court” that includes both laypersons and judges. The vast majority of all jury trials that occur today are held within the United States.
Great examples! We should strive to emulate 1920s Germany and third world shitholes.
 
Nah, jury duty is for suckers and retards, the kind of people who think voting matters and close up at work every day for 30 unpaid minutes and volunteer for the army the second they hear there's a foreign war in a country they've never even heard of before. If it was really a "unique opportunity" you wouldn't need to be coerced into it.
You just say that because you are a gas-sniffing felon from a penal colony and have never had the opportunity to be on a jury.

Watching some "vet" screech at some poor court clerk about Kissinger, Agent Orange, MKULTRA and how his crippling disability needs to excuse him so that he can go back to his important work of sitting on his ass at home watching Matlock is worth the price of admission.
 
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Watching some "vet" screech at some poor court clerk about Kissinger, Agent Orange, MKULTRA and how his crippling disability keeps him from his important work of sitting on his ass at home watching Matlock is worth the price of admission.
No it's not. If you want to watch retarded crackheads slapfight you can just pull up a lawn chair outside the needle exchange, it's free and you can actually go home as soon as you get bored. If you have to invent arguments for why jury duty isn't an onerous imposition into your personal life you're just coping like a simp for big daddy government.
 
No it's not. If you want to watch retarded crackheads slapfight you can just pull up a lawn chair outside the needle exchange, it's free and you can actually go home as soon as you get bored. If you have to invent arguments for why jury duty isn't an onerous imposition into your personal life you're just coping like a simp for big daddy government.
And you could go to the VFW hall and watch the guy I watched be in his element where that bullshit he spouts somehow carries weight.

The point is watching dysfunctional people try to get along in civil society with at least some basic rules on behavior. Me and the guy who trims trees with the double-parked 1-ton service truck figured it out. What is his problem?
 
No it's not. If you want to watch retarded crackheads slapfight you can just pull up a lawn chair outside the needle exchange, it's free and you can actually go home as soon as you get bored. If you have to invent arguments for why jury duty isn't an onerous imposition into your personal life you're just coping like a simp for big daddy government.
Sometimes it's a pain in the butt, but other tines it's more like free entertainment.
 
And you could go to the VFW hall and watch the guy I watched be in his element where that bullshit he spouts somehow carries weight.
Just one reason I have never joined the VFW or the American Legion. Better things to do than sit in some bar and listen to drunks spout bullshit.
 
Only I matter and everything should be done in a totalitarian manner that strictly caters to my personal interests and beliefs alone. Fuck you.
 
While the American common law system has many problems to the point of being dysfunctional in some cases, once you step out of the country and examine the legal systems of other places it's a frightening realization to see nearly every other country be somehow far fucking worse in almost every way.
 
Leaving aside your opinion of Rittenhouse himself, gun rights, "mostly peaceful protests", and the like - this case was actually a demonstration of the strength of the jury system. There was a broad consensus among legal types that given the law as it stands and the facts as we know them, acquittal was pretty much the only correct response. And despite this being a highly politically-charged case with national media coverage and outright attempts at jury intimidation, the jury did reach that conclusion.

Imagine being in Rittenhouse's shoes and facing the alternative instead: a bench trial by a judge elected by Minnesotans. Would you trust a judge to give you a fair trial when he could lose his job over it?
 
The State just doesn't have enough power, the People have too much! Centralization of power in a managerial class is clearly better, sweaties. Mostly because it will give me and the people I think should have more power, more power.

Said every sack of shit who's never read a history book ever. Or the more distressing possibility is that they have.
 
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