🐱 Libertine Conservatives

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There are various kinds of conservatives: Burkean conservatives concerned with preserving communities and traditions. Free-market conservatives committed to economic growth. Neo-conservatives who believe American values should be spread abroad, by force if necessary. Libertarian conservatives prioritize personal liberty and small government. Common-good conservatives champion the working class and are willing to use the government to direct the economy for the good of all. Social conservatives are pro-life and support traditional morality.


Now we are hearing about another kind of conservatives, variously known as barstool conservatives, libertine conservatives, porn conservatives, or “sex, drink, and rock ‘n’ roll” conservatives.

Here is how one of their number, Brandi Love, describes them:

I am both a conservative and a Christian. I am not, however, a zealot. I have travelled all over the United States meeting fans for more than 15 years. There are millions. My fan base is now, and has always been, what I like to refer to as Sex, Drink, and Rock ‘n Roll conservatives.
My members are a direct reflection of me: Constitutional, red state, Second Amendment-supporting pro-lifers who support our troops and our rights to free speech. We love God and our flag but generally dislike organized religion. We like to hang out on the deck drinking a beer, talking sports, listening to country, rock, and rap while using colorful words to describe Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Anthony Fauci.
Brandi Love is a porn star.

She was in the news recently because she was going to attend a conference of Turning Point USA, an organization for young conservatives, some of whom are minors. But when the organization learned of her profession, her ticket was revoked. Whereupon the adult film star claimed that she was “cancelled,” just like the liberals do, and her free speech was infringed.

What is significant is that many prominent conservatives came to her defense. And it turns out, there are a lot of grass roots conservatives who are on her side.

Matthew Walther sees in them a new kind of social conservative, arguing that they played a big part in Donald Trump’s success. Indeed, Donald Trump–the gambling magnate with his womanizing, including consorting with porn stars–not only appeals to but exemplifies this mindset:

What Trump recognized was that there are millions of Americans who do not oppose or even care about abortion or same-sex marriage, much less stem-cell research or any of the other causes that had animated traditional social conservatives. Instead he correctly intuited that the new culture war would be fought over very different (and more nebulous) issues: vague concerns about political correctness and “SJWs,” opposition to the popularization of so-called critical race theory, sentimentality about the American flag and the military, the rights of male undergraduates to engage in fornication while intoxicated without fear of the Title IX mafia. Whatever their opinions might have been 20 years ago, in 2021 these are people who, with varying degrees of enthusiasm, accept pornography, homosexuality, drug use, legalized gambling, and whatever GamerGate was about. On economic questions their views are a curious and at times incoherent mixture of standard libertarian talking points and pseudo-populism, embracing lower taxes on the one hand and stimulus checks and stricter regulation of social media platforms on the other.


Walther calls these folks “Barstool conservatives,” not because they frequent bars, though they do, but because they are the audience of Dave Portnoy’s liberal-bashing sports site Barstool. Comments Walther, “as Portnoy emerged as one of America’s most visible critics of the lockdown policies instituted by virtually every state governor, it became clear to me that more so than anyone else he embodied the world view of millions of Americans, who share his disdain for the language of liberal improvement, the hectoring, schoolmarmish attitude of Democratic politicians and their allies in the media, and, above all, the elevation of risk-aversion to the level of a first-order principle by our professional classes”.

Nate Hochman, writing in the American Mind, has fired back with a post entitled No, Porn Stars Are Not Conservative. He makes the case that conservatism has to be about conserving a moral social order. He blames the libertarian strain of conservatism. He writes, “An insidious libertarianism has captured the language and worldview of the modern right. The inability to distinguish between liberty and license is endemic to today’s conservative mainstream.”


Responding to that, Bonnie Kristian–a libertarian who is also a Christian–writes that The right’s new libertinism isn’t libertarian. Libertarians are concerned about small government and free markets, something that these “libertine” conservatives care little about. (Never mind that when the Turning Point USA organization banned Brandi Love, libertarians tweeted that they would be welcome at their events.) Meanwhile, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky), who is both a libertarian and a social conservative, explained that a concern for personal liberty necessarily entails support for strong families, arguing that Libertarian is not Libertine.

So what is your take on all of this? Virtually all of these brands of “conservatives” do hold to certain beliefs in common. They are all pro-life, patriotic, support the Constitution, believe in the Second Amendment, oppose the politically ethos, and are against coercive liberalism.


That’s not nothing. Surely all of these kinds of conservatives, including the porn-loving kind, would vote on a common candidate. Isn’t that kind of political alliance–despite religious and moral differences–necessary in democratic politics?

Then again, though we might be political allies, that doesn’t mean that the differences between these kinds of conservatives are not of monumental importance. We certainly don’t have to invite each other to each other’s conferences.

This controversy is also a reminder that Christians involved in politics–even conservative politics–are not necessarily going to find a predominance of kindred spirits. Christians should work for their issues–fighting abortion, promoting families, opposing moral decadence, protecting religious liberty, etc.–and this may involve working with various co-belligerents, some of whom they will oppose on other issues and some of whom might not even be conservatives.
 
Pity that Joe Sixpack who just wants to grill is an idiot who will vote for whoever the TV man pushes him to vote for, so that whole nonsense is irrelevant.

Pretending that Moral Majority Republicans or whatever had much of anything to do with how things are today is a farce. Their opponents were already heavily entrenched.
 
There are no "Libertine Conservatives" because there is nothing conservative about them.
They're just libertine grifters, who are utter degenerates that try to be something that they are not to fool others that somehow they are "on your side." They are not. They just don't want to be kink-shamed for their degeneracy.
I would say they are just one tiny step above (below?) Dick Masterson.
To Masterson's credit (which there isn't much of), he'll admit he's a hedonistic degenerate and follow up with "so what?"
 
I guess this describes me, lol.
Yup. It pretty obviously is a rah-rah piece for the hard-right to make sure they tow the line and stay in their morality caves. The center-right is the enemy. The left is being extremely dumb right now and it is somehow the moderates fault for letting them do that.

They don't seem to understand that them being even more retarded for a long time forced things that way.

I fucking hate lefties because I work for a living and hate my money paid to the government being wasted on stupid utopian pipedreams and throwing money at useless jackasses. But I also love pictures of barenekkid titties and W.A.S.P. What do? I align with the motherfuckers who do the least damage is what.

These motherfuckers want to "conserve" their fictionalized idea of the 1950's (that they only even know of because of reruns Leave it to Beaver on TVLand) but me and many others are just trying to conserve the freewheeling figure-shit-as-you-go-because-your-life-just-works-out-however-it-does-because-there-are-no-guarantees nature of the actual world before social media warped people's expectations by rubbing things they were never meant to be in their face.

It ruined it. Every gigantic faggot suddenly had this idealized version of themselves that extra-totally would have happened if those other no-goodniks hadn't gone and ruined things. They now get up to the most ludicrous levels of fantasy bullshit where they invent ways that some other guy on the other side of the country somehow made their lives suck. But they forget that if their life is actually lived correctly none of this shit matters. Get ahold of yourself, seriously, you have to be the pinnacle of pathetic if some angry troon or bible-thumper somehow manages to ruin your shit. Honestly it doesn't matter. Normal people just chuckle to themselves and move on. They do not engage or get mad about it. They know what dysfunction looks like.
 
Another party switch happened.
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The overton window shifting leftwards has created a lot of "conservatives"
 
Why are you attributing all the shit the other side pushed for to the fence-sitters?
That's not what's happening. Rather, you blatantly omit the presence of "the other side" as you lambast the moral majority that predated them.
My case is that because of the failure and overreach of the moral majority it ceded the institutions and narrative to the left.
And my case is that your case is ignorant, because the left was still making headway in those institutions well before the moral majority had burned all their goodwill, and to some degree that was before the moral majority even existed as a distinct political unit.

Tolerating people living their lives how they want (sex, beer, rock and roll) is going to make very clear who the authoritarian censorious Machiavellian assholes are.
Tolerance without standards has led to the clown show we're watching today. "What I do in my bedroom isn't your business" has led to people vivisecting their sex dungeon bedrooms for all to see. The only compromise that should be made with people like porn stars under the conservative umbrella is one where they know their place and don't attempt to take anything resembling center stage-- they participate in a neoliberal machine that warps the mind of children and frequently intersects with sex trafficking. I'd sooner trust the policy opinions of a two-month old fetus.

Why the hell should it be that only the left can have standards-- no matter how imbecilic or outright harmful-- and they get compliance from mostly everyone regardless of culture or creed, but the right has to accept the baggage of even literal whores for the sake of some sort of peacocking strategy that ultimately reinforces the "progressives driving the speed limit" paradigm?

The move is to let your enemies continue to make the mistakes and alienate the populace.
You still believe in pendulum theory, don't you?
 
Ok Reverend Lovejoy. Tell me more about how we need to do the shit you say and adopt your social mores "for the children". Surely it will work this time and not just piss off a bunch of people and make enemies of them.
Outright libertarianism is very unpopular, judging by the failure of every libertarian political project, and the social-liberal/economic-conservative position is much less popular among the electorate than many would think. Turns out Joe Sixpack often actively dislikes the culture war being waged against him and wants to push back rather than remain neutral. And this isn’t lame 700 Club handwringing over sex, beer, rock music and Pokeyman either - it’s trans kids, BLM, and CRT he wants something done about.

Eventually, some progressive position you’d have a serious problem with - fill in the blank here - will become so mainstreamed the right feels they have to concede it and you’ll be in the same boat as @Zero Day Defense. In the meantime, good luck with BBC cuckold porn-servatism.
 
That's not what's happening. Rather, you blatantly omit the presence of "the other side" as you lambast the moral majority that predated them.
I know damn well what they are up to. I am telling you how to beat them.
And my case is that your case is ignorant, because the left was still making headway in those institutions well before the moral majority had burned all their goodwill, and to some degree that was before the moral majority even existed as a distinct political unit.
So you admit we have approached this issue that way at least twice before and it didn't work. Please kindly explain to me the time where the strategy against left-wing moral decay wasn't bible-thumping right-wing authoritarianism. It has been the only strategy in the playbook since forever and it never works, and will never work in a free society. People don't want that shit. The enemy of my enemy isn't my friend.
Tolerance without standards has led to the clown show we're watching today. "What I do in my bedroom isn't your business" has led to people vivisecting their sex dungeon bedrooms for all to see. The only compromise that should be made with people like porn stars under the conservative umbrella is one where they know their place and don't attempt to take anything resembling center stage-- they participate in a neoliberal machine that warps the mind of children and frequently intersects with sex trafficking. I'd sooner trust the policy opinions of a two-month old fetus.
WHO THE FUCK CARES. It is this focus on other people's lives and perceived flaws (which are largely just an invention of the media) rather than focus on yourself your family and your community is how the right have been losing again and again for years. They make up and push these wedge issues for a reason. They know they will win if you push back because the fight will be on their terms. Don't play the game. Let the troons and the whores and the junkies fail of their own accord. Everyone knows what losers they are.
Why the hell should it be that only the left can have standards-- no matter how imbecilic or outright harmful-- and they get compliance from mostly everyone regardless of culture or creed, but the right has to accept the baggage of even literal whores for the sake of some sort of peacocking strategy that ultimately reinforces the "progressives driving the speed limit" paradigm?
Peacocking? Is that how you are framing not engaging in a booby-trapped political entanglement? What are you the right-wing equivalent of Wylie E Coyote? Stop trying to catch the roadrunner. The whole thing is rigged.
You still believe in pendulum theory, don't you?
A bit. However the gist of what I am saying is "never interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake". Do you honestly think after last year the average American is happy with the shenanigans of the hard left? Just be more reasonable than them and you will win. You don't need to fight them. That is retarded Proud Boy logic. Fighting back (flailing ineffectively at ghosts) and "getting even" is why we lost. Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco are not the bellweather of American politics. They are the weird mutant children we keep locked under the stairs and feed fishheads.
 
I don’t care how these people live their lives, but they’re not “conservative”. You can’t just walk into the room, scream “PLEASE LIKE ME”, and then magically be part of the group. You actually have to, you know, believe in things.

I remember there was this troon at CPAC once, who was there for no other reason than “troons can be MAGA too :^)”
It’s a grift.
 
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