Science Scientists turn CO2 into jet fuel - 100 bucks says this is going to turn out wildly impractical and nothing of value will come of it.

Scientists turn CO2 into jet fuel

Scientists have turned CO2 into jet fuel, hinting at a future where aircraft could have net zero emissions without relying on electric motors.

www.engadget.com

Researchers may have found a way to reduce the environmental impact of air travel in situations when electric aircraft and alternative fuels aren’t practical. Wired reports that Oxford University scientists have successfully turned CO2 into jet fuel, raising the possibility of conventionally-powered aircraft with net zero emissions.

The technique effectively reverses the process of burning fuel by relying on the organic combustion method. The team heated a mix of citric acid, hydrogen and an iron-manganese-potassium catalyst to turn CO2 into a liquid fuel capable of powering jet aircraft.

The approach is inexpensive, uncomplicated and uses commonplace materials. It’s cheaper than processes used to turn hydrogen and water into fuel.

There are numerous challenges to bringing this to aircraft. The lab method only produced a few grams of fuel — you’d clearly need much more to support even a single flight, let alone an entire fleet. You’d need much more widespread use of carbon capture. And if you want effectively zero emissions, the capture and conversion systems would have to run on clean energy.

The researches are talking with industrial partners, though, and don’t see any major scientific hurdles. It might also be one of the most viable options for fleets. Many of them would have to replace their aircraft to go electric or switch fuel types. This conversion process would let airlines keep their existing aircraft and go carbon neutral until they’re truly ready for eco-friendly propulsion.

 

[Pickle Dick]

okay but can it melt steel beams?

 

[Vecr]

okay but can it melt steel beams?

I'm not sure about melt, but it's normal jet fuel, it can soften them for sure.

 

[Sneed's Feed And Seed]

Invest in dry ice futures, kids!

 

[Pixy]

I'm not sure about melt, but it's normal jet fuel, it can soften them for sure.

Softening is close enough; it'll compromise their integrity.

While it's doubtful this will become a realistic option to completely fuel aircraft, it would contribute with reducing the impact of CO2 emissions, which seems much more practical.

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

Sounds like bullshit.
Hope it isn't.

 

[Pickle Dick]

I'm not sure about melt, but it's normal jet fuel, it can soften them for sure.

Softening is close enough; it'll compromise their integrity.

While it's doubtful this will become a realistic option to completely fuel aircraft, it would contribute with reducing the impact of CO2 emissions, which seems much more practical.

i hate it when plebs like you guys dont get memes

Sounds like bullshit.
Hope it isn't.

in honesty, im surprised that CO2 is still used for aircraft when jet fuel is theoretically the more environmentally friendly option

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

in honesty, im surprised that CO2 is still used for aircraft when jet fuel is theoretically the more environmentally friendly option

I'm interested to see what Thunderfoot will have to say about it.

 

[Dagobert]

The big problem here is going to be energy consumption. You do this on an energy grid powered by coal/gas burning, you're just shifting the carbon production from the fuel end to the power-plant end. There's no such thing as a free lunch at the end of the day.

 

[Vecr]

I'm interested to see what Thunderfoot will have to say about it.

I mean, "it works", but you probably need to either use waste energy from wind or solar farms to create it, or build dedicated nuclear plants, so it's really expensive and not practical for any airline, probably for a long time.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I've been hearing all kinds of weirdly incredible breakthroughs recently, one of which is this:

https://archive.is/VsUHb

 

[tofudelivery]

It's been well known that you can turn CO2 into other carbon compounds. You just need a lot of energy to do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process <- turn Carbon Monoxide into hydrocarbons - just as an example.

If they can harvest the excess wind/solar/hydro/whatever to do this, great. They may even find an semi-efficient way to do it if their catalyst is good.

But if they're just fishing for grant money/investment, Thunderf00t is going to make a droning, repetitive 45 minute video that will beat them until they're a dead horse, and then piss on the corpse.

 

[Kheapathic]

I'm all for what works, but I see this going the same way as California and desalinization plants. California is always in the middle of a water crisis; and despite having a huge fucking coastline, refuses to use desalinization because of the cost (and blocking beach views). I'm no scientist, but I know it takes a shit ton of energy to turn one type of matter into another; so the energy output to do this enough to power entire air fleets is going to be immense.

This conversion process would let airlines keep their existing aircraft and go carbon neutral until they’re truly ready for eco-friendly propulsion.

This final line also makes me skeptical. Just how fucking eco-friendly do you need to be when carbon neutral isn't enough.

 

[Sped Xing]

I'm all for what works, but I see this going the same way as California and desalinization plants. California is always in the middle of a water crisis; and despite having a huge fucking coastline, refuses to use desalinization because of the cost (and blocking beach views). I'm no scientist, but I know it takes a shit ton of energy to turn one type of matter into another; so the energy output to do this enough to power entire air fleets is going to be immense.



This final line also makes me skeptical. Just how fucking eco-friendly do you need to be when carbon neutral isn't enough.

You're not turning one type of matter into another. It's just chemical, not nuclear.

However, it's still energy-expensive. We have these things that turn CO2 and H2O into organic compounds, running on solar energy. I like to call them "plants."

We even have a system where fusion power desalinates sea water, transports it inland, and irrigates crops. Some refer to that as "rain."

 

[Snekposter]

The issue with converting CO2 to anything else is that to nobody's surprise, its rather inert given that its created as the byproduct of extracting energy from molecules... which is why we use it for everything that requires inert pressurized gas: soda, air guns, fire suppression systems, and I think (don't quote me), some forms of welding as a means of displacing oxygen from the weld. So you need to dump a shitton of energy into it, which is why its really only feasible if you have something like a nuclear reactor handy. Which of course the USN does as part of every CBG, which is why they actually looked into this a while back as a means of in-country fuel replenishment. Keep in mind all modern Navy ships, like everything else we have, run on JP-8 (a kerosene-based fuel mix), so theoretically one carrier could fuel its whole damn escort group and its air group at the same time. It wouldn't surprise me if we do see a breakthrough if only because the USN wants to shorten its logistics chain and keep costs down.

 

[Stoneheart]

nice journalism! its just another chemical to improve one part of Jetfuel synthesis and it will never be used.
Jet fuel from oil is just to cheap, there are already problems with to much of it since its a byproduct and the general fuel consumption is stronger than the jetfuel consumption.

Stupid clickbait... there is very interesting stuff going on in synthesegas production, but that stuff is hard to explain its also not a good look when its all about Japanese and German scientists/companies.

im still waiting on CAPHENIA opening up for private investors... their Tech could realy change some stuff...

Which of course the USN does as part of every CBG, which is why they actually looked into this a while back as a means of in-country fuel replenishment. Keep in mind all modern Navy ships, like everything else we have, run on JP-8 (a kerosene-based fuel mix), so theoretically one carrier could fuel its whole damn escort group and its air group at the same time. It wouldn't surprise me if we do see a breakthrough if only because the USN wants to shorten its logistics chain and keep costs down.

well doing it on the carrier wouldnt be smart, but you could use more advanced plasmabased technologies on a small ship powered by the carrier.
you dont want something that makes Kerosene in huge quantities inside your highest valuable target.

 

[Panama]

Like Snekposter said, carbon conversion is grossly inefficient, especially if you are trying to turn a non-fuel source into a fuel source. That energy to convert it has to come from somewhere, and there will always be a significant energy loss or waste byproduct with each additional step from the primary source.

Also, the idea of large scale electric aircraft, or fuel conversions of existing aircraft is retarded. You can't just slap a new powerplant onto the wings and fill up the tanks with something different. The energy density of batteries is also terrible: approximately 1.5-1.8 MJ/kg, and around 8-10 for experimental metal-air batteries. This also decreases dramatically with lower temperatures. Hydrocarbon fuels on the other hand, are putting out around 43-47 MJ/kg, and can be replenished as fast as a pump can get them into the fuel cells.

 

[Snekposter]

I never said they were going to run aircraft on electric batteries. I said they were going to use the electrical output of the carrier's reactor to forcibly beat CO2 molecules into splitting apart then joining up with electrolysis'd seawater to make hydrocarbon fuels. Hilariously inefficient, but if anyone could make it work, its the USN, simply because of the military benefits to a lightened logistics chain.

 

[HumanHive]

I'm all for what works, but I see this going the same way as California and desalinization plants. California is always in the middle of a water crisis; and despite having a huge fucking coastline, refuses to use desalinization because of the cost (and blocking beach views). I'm no scientist, but I know it takes a shit ton of energy to turn one type of matter into another; so the energy output to do this enough to power entire air fleets is going to be immense.



This final line also makes me skeptical. Just how fucking eco-friendly do you need to be when carbon neutral isn't enough.

It’s a cult. There is no “enough”.

 

[Stoneheart]

Also, the idea of large scale electric aircraft, or fuel conversions of existing aircraft is retarded. You can't just slap a new powerplant onto the wings and fill up the tanks with something different.

there arent many good alternatives for aircrafts and you have to use some sort of conversion anyway...

I never said they were going to run aircraft on electric batteries. I said they were going to use the electrical output of the carrier's reactor to forcibly beat CO2 molecules into splitting apart then joining up with electrolysis'd seawater to make hydrocarbon fuels.

using the biological waste from the fleet would be more than enough to fuel all aircrafts on a Carrier. for the ships in the group, weight isnt so important there and there are ways to build a circular system with some chemicals. much more efficient than getting co2 from air to fuel synthesis.