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Far be it from me to try to interfere in women's spaces, but... just a suggestion here: shouldn't the argument be "you're fucking it up for everybody else here, shape up or get the fuck out"?
You could exclude FTMs, but then you’d have to allow MTFs, or you’d get ostracized for being a TERF. Also, the healthcare sector has been totally colonized by troons who keep pushing this ‘chestfeeding’ and ‘birthing person’ nonsense. Anyone who thinks medicine is full of conservatives is wrong.

I am also baffled by FTMs who attend women’s colleges because it means they’ll never be able to be stealth because their resume will always out them.
 
I understand why doctors won’t sterilize 18 year old childless women. People do, in fact, change their minds. Also people in the US love to sue. So the fact that doctors will sterilize 18 year old childless women because they say they’re a man is shocking.

Or cut the dick off a kid or prescribe them hormones with horrifying side effects because they're brainwashed into claiming they're a girl. It would be illegal for them even to have sex, or get a tattoo, or smoke a cigarette, and yet they'll permanently mutilate them with no medical review whatsoever.
 
You’re right, it’s still hard for detrans lesbians, I shouldn’t downplay that. But it’s less bad.

Feminists are not obligated to support every woman (or female)’s choice. I agree with the previous poster who said FTMs are the ones who are trying to degender women’s health concerns. I’m sympathetic toward actual children who are uncomfortable with puberty, but fully grown adults? I am not. If you try to ‘identify out of womanhood’ because you think you’re too good to be a woman, I don’t want you near me. The way they talk about women and imply all women are hyper feminine cheerleaders is awful.

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This is from some semi-famous Twitter artist. She’s in her 30s. I hate this kind of thinking and I see it from ‘enbies’ all the time and I do not want them around.
Enbies are just cis people who want to fit in the the LGBT community so they feel like they need to have some special identity to do so or they're just a wicked cis person invading a poor marginalized community. They don't want to be an "ally" because that implies they're outsiders or that they have responsibility to help every LGBTQIAWTFBBQ person they see because they're not marginalized (Kind of like that "He for She" campaign from a few years ago). It's easier to just join the victims than to try and be their strong cis ally savior who constantly advocates for their rights.
 
I was going to add him! But I decided to make a second part dedicated exclusively to the ones who already have dedicated threads. Suggestions are welcome.

In the meantime, here's a troon chin compilation.

Are we still absolutely positively sure that phrenology is bunk? Because I see things like this and I start to wonder if there may be some validity to it.

This is an issue a lot of trans people have. Their life sucks and they think it’s because they’re trans, so they troon out, and they get all the hormones and surgery, and their life still sucks, and then what?

I understand why doctors won’t sterilize 18 year old childless women. People do, in fact, change their minds. Also people in the US love to sue. So the fact that doctors will sterilize 18 year old childless women because they say they’re a man is shocking.

Same with hysterectomies, especially total ones (that means removal of all reproductive organs). That’s a major ordeal! Doctors have tried to stop performing so many on non-troons even for legitimate health reasons because there’s real consequences. And not just with hormones, but anatomically, a female body is meant to have those to hold things up.
iirc the uterus also plays a role in cognition, which sounds insane but makes hysterectomies and testosterone even more horrifying: https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/uterus-plays-role-brain-function-animal-study-shows
 
Ok back to the troonery.

What even is this pose?
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@CobraPlissken two more chins for ya:
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Before the haircut:
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And finally my fave:
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Are we still absolutely positively sure that phrenology is bunk? Because I see things like this and I start to wonder if there may be some validity to it.


iirc the uterus also plays a role in cognition, which sounds insane but makes hysterectomies and testosterone even more horrifying: https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/uterus-plays-role-brain-function-animal-study-shows
I'm about to link this to my enbie friend who just texted the group chat talking about booking a hysterectomy to ~alleviate dysphoria~. I wish I was kidding.
 
is it because she doesn’t want to have a period or is it because an organ you can’t see somehow causes dysphoria

She has said partially periods, partially the knowledge that it's even there at all makes her dysphoric. She doesn't have any existing medical conditions (PCOS, endo) that a hysto would alleviate.
 
How about... idk... a woman space with only women, no FtM (who've been on T), no MtF?
Then you get accused of TERF'ing, which, all things considered, isn't the worst thing in the world logically speaking, but socially you may as well be accused of beating puppies.
 
Women's spaces don't exist to separate the sexes just because, they exist to protect the (weaker) women from the (stronger) men.
If you accept this, it's perfectly logical to kick trans-identified women from women's spaces. They made themselves stronger and (more importantly) more threatening. Women have every right to kick out the people who deliberately made themselves look like a threat. As to where they should go -- it's no longer our problem.

This is not a compassionate stance, and I don't necessarily support it for all spaces. But it is logical and keeps males out.

While I agree with you that, by and large, women's spaces exist for reasons of safety, your entire argument relies solely on sexist stereotypes about women being too weak to defend themselves and the (false) idea that every woman who identifies as trans is taking testosterone and has become a physical threat to other women as a result. Those are not solid bases for an argument, especially when the group you're trying to exclude based on a "safety" argument includes, for example, young "nonbinary" girls who don't take testosterone and whose trans identification is in name only, or straight "gay transmen" who are incredibly feminine in dress and appearance and have no intention of doing any kind of medical transition, and so on.

While statistics do show that ftms who are on testosterone exhibit somewhat higher rates of violent crime than women who are not on testosterone, for the most part these women don't pose a threat to other women, at least not physically, especially if they aren't on testosterone. This is a bad argument.

(Now, if you want to argue that women who take testosterone should be banned from women's sports and similar physical activities, for safety reasons, you would have my wholehearted support.)


Far be it from me to try to interfere in women's spaces, but... just a suggestion here: shouldn't the argument be "you're fucking it up for everybody else here, shape up or get the fuck out"?
How about... idk... a woman space with only women, no FtM (who've been on T), no MtF?

This is very, very difficult in the current political climate. Because all the expelled trans-identified women have to do is cry that they're being oppressed and discriminated against, and the group that kicked them out will either be shut down (one way or another) or forced into hiding for the physical safety of those involved.

Then you get accused of TERF'ing, which, all things considered, isn't the worst thing in the world logically speaking, but socially you may as well be accused of beating puppies.

Honestly, it's not being called a TERF in and of itself that's so bad - it's the rape and death threats, loss of your job/livelihood, constant harassment, dick pics, becoming a social pariah, etc. that being labeled a "TERF" brings with it that makes women (rightfully, to be quite honest) fear the label and do anything in their power to avoid being subject to it.
 
But I don’t understand why FTMs and enbies want to be in a woman’s space. Wouldn’t that cause dysphoria?

Honestly, the amount of trans-identified people with dysphoria is absurdly low. Of course, they'll all claim to have it, but most of them just don't.

Really I think it's a kind of willful ignorance thing. They want to talk about how they're manly men or androgynous enbies, definitely not feeemales, but when they need support because they're pregnant, or they were raped, or whatever... they know they're female enough to go to that support group, or OB/GYN appointment, or whatever. But they have to maintain their delusions (and feel super special/"not like the other girls"), so when they get in those groups they force them to modify their language, customs, etc. to suit them.
 
I also have to say that TIFs can be insidous as TIMs.
In my country there is a female hygiene company that donates some of its profita for the investigation on a cure against breast cancer. Tifs got mad that one of its catchphrases in ands were in the lines of "the strenght of being a woman". I don't know if tifs succeeded on that boycott.
Also, I have noticed that troons don't know that people have functioning sight, they proclaim that we can assume a man with a Habsburg's chin is a woman or a 5'2 scrawny woman is a man. Even blind people can separate the sexes only by smell. Who are they fooling? Are blinds bigots?
 
Nah, you can keep spaces just for women while remaining ideologically consistent.

Woman is a protected class, and protected classes are exclusive by nature. A person can choose to waive the protections granted to them, ad hoc or modify the circumstances of their protected status. As an example, a person with a disability might choose to reject accommodations in a specific circumstance, or might pursue medical treatments that change or void their need to receive accommodations. It's a reasonable comparison to say that FtM require protections for their trans status, but not for their female status since they have revoked those protections.

It's not really important whether you can actually change sex, it's about the fundamental purpose of protected spaces.

Anyway social media sideshows: r/TransphobiaProject tackling the important issues:

TP.png
 
Nah, you can keep spaces just for women while remaining ideologically consistent.

Woman is a protected class, and protected classes are exclusive by nature. A person can choose to waive the protections granted to them, ad hoc or modify the circumstances of their protected status. As an example, a person with a disability might choose to reject accommodations in a specific circumstance, or might pursue medical treatments that change or void their need to receive accommodations. It's a reasonable comparison to say that FtM require protections for their trans status, but not for their female status since they have revoked those protections.

It's not really important whether you can actually change sex, it's about the fundamental purpose of protected spaces.

Anyway social media sideshows: r/TransphobiaProject tackling the important issues:

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Fuck porn in general, but the fact that they want to police what people get off to in their free time is absolutely pathetic to me.
 
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