RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

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5t3n0g0ph3r said:
Pyrrha was destined to die from the get-go. Her name is based off of the word "pyrrhic" and she's based on Achilles from the Trojan War.
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Pyrrha is the name Achilles used while cross dressing in a story in Greek mythology. Even specifically called "the red haired" so that's pretty obvious where they got Pyrrha from. And even if you wanted to go with the idea that her name was supposed to be a play on "Pyrrhic Victory" that doesn't even work because Pyrrha goes into a battle she couldn't win (though she should have) and dies accomplishing literally nothing. There was no victory until Ruby pulled out super laser eyes at the last minute and became the poster child for deus ex machinas. Pyrrha's entire death was also contrived as all hell and required literally everyone acting as stupid as possible. The entire season had to bend over backwards just to contrive a single event that would let Pyrrha die, and even then it's still unbelievable. Had Pyrrha and Jaune gotten Glynda, Ironwood, and Qrow like Ozpin wanted they could have easily taken Cinder down, but in order to make Cinder win they had to force the characters to all make boneheaded decisions.

And yes Achilles dies. So does Joan of Arc whens she's burned alive. So does Thor in Ragnarok, and in at least number of the versions the story of Mulan she dies too. Literally all four members of JNPR are based on people or characters that die. So should all of team JNPR have died? The actual characters in RWBY are only vaguely like their inspirations, and aside from Pyrrha being really good at fighting she's nothing like Achilles. There's a lot of set up in Achilles' death complete with a prophecy, but with Pyrrha not only do we have next to nothing about her backstory, she barely got a slight bit of development before that gets ignored so they could kill her off for a cheap shock death. I also find it ridiculous to say that Pyrrha had to die because Achilles died when all the fairy tale, historical, and mythological inspirations are only vaguely or superficially related to RWBY. This is basically the only time I've ever heard people say the show absolutely had to stick to the source of the character and I don't buy it. By that logic Cardin should be directly involved in the death of Jaune cause he's based on the Cardinal of Winchester. Killing Pyrrha was a stupid decision from the beginning that never should have been allowed to go through, especially since they only barely started to hint at Pyrrha getting development late in Volume 2.
 
Roland Daggett said:
Blake didn't bother to change her name, outfit, or weapons when she went to Beacon, so either there was no proper record of her as being part of the White Fang or literally everyone in the world is to dumb to realize that Blake Belladonna at Beacon is the same Blake Belladonna in the White Fang.
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I suspected Blake was there under Ospin's protection.

Roland Daggett said:
Though things like killing Pyrrha were boneheaded decisions
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The VA knew Pyrrha's demise from season 1.
 
Polyboros2 said:
The VA knew Pyrrha's demise from season 1.
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So? That doesn't change the fact that it was an extremely stupid and short sighted decision. Even if it was planned from the beginning that only makes the death even worse because they didn't bother to even develop Pyrrha or give her hardly any attention until they killed her off. And then her death is pretty much irrelevant for the rest of the series and functionally no different than if she got hurt and sidelined for a while. It took them to Volume 6 to do anything more than vaguely mention that Pyrrha actually died, and they spent several seasons in Pyrrha's home country where she was supposedly a universally loved celebrity. It was a bad idea from the start.
 
I mean, I honestly don't see what Pyrrha could contribute to the series now. It's already bloated with characters as it is, having another relatively useless character to burden down the plot would just be stupid. Pyrrha was a mentor character who served her purpose in getting Jaune started down his path of becoming a huntsman (kinda like how Obi-Wan gets 'saber'd after he gets Luke started down the path of becoming a Jedi), and after she served that purpose, she got killed off.

Maybe it's just because I was never particularly attached to her as a character, but I just don't know what she'd contribute to the series as a whole after she served her mentor role that would warrant keeping her alive.
 
madethistocomment said:
I mean, I honestly don't see what Pyrrha could contribute to the series now. It's already bloated with characters as it is, having another relatively useless character to burden down the plot would just be stupid. Pyrrha was a mentor character who served her purpose in getting Jaune started down his path of becoming a huntsman (kinda like how Obi-Wan gets 'saber'd after he gets Luke started down the path of becoming a Jedi), and after she served that purpose, she got killed off.

Maybe it's just because I was never particularly attached to her as a character, but I just don't know what she'd contribute to the series as a whole after she served her mentor role that would warrant keeping her alive.
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What does Ruby add to the series at this point? Or Yang? Even Weiss and Blake who have plotlines aren't really contributing anything. That's to do with the writing of the show. Jaune, Ren, and Nora are beyond superfluous at this point. Pyrrha was a worldwide famous celebrity and sports star. We could have explored the celebrity culture of Remnant and how different Kingdoms view Pyrrha. We could have seen Pyrrha balance her career as a Huntress and her celebrity obligations. One of the biggest failings with Pyrrha's character is that her being famous was rarely brought up and never actually shown in any depth. We could learn about Pyrrha's family which considering how famous she is could easily lead to interactions with world leaders, especially in Mistral. Pyrrha was from Mistral so we could have seen the people in her home Kingdom react to her and interact with her. Weiss is a different kind of famous so this provides a different opportunity to explore a different part of the culture of Remnant.

And on top of that we could have gotten actual development of her relationship with Jaune. Setting up a romance only to do literally nothing with it is not good writing. Actually seeing her and Jaune developed as a couple would actually be nice and would come with its own challenges as a writer. Why set it up if they're not gonna go through with it? And ironically despite them trying to develop Jaune by killing Pyrrha they stunted his growth. Jaune's entire development was based on Pyrrha helping him, and with her killed off Jaune just meanders as a character. He's floundered around for years and the only thing he has going for him now is being upset about Pyrrha. And even then that isn't really explored much and at most we just get a couple of emotionally manipulative scenes where they desperately hope you cry when they bring up that Pyrrha died. It's not interesting. Frankly having Pyrrha around is much better for Jaune's character cause then he could properly develop.
 
At times I wonder if the show would be better if there was no Jaune and instead his character was consolidated into Pyrrha as Ruby's BFF.

Anyway, overarching problems:

1. Ozpin is not a suitably "grey" character for all the hubbub he got last season for all his mean lies. The one time he does something legit "grey" (covering up Lionheart's betrayal), it's shrugged off by RWBY and Qrow.

2. There are too many characters.

3. The villains are meh to poor overall (Salem alone fails at how she's apparently supposed to be some tragic heroine forced into darkness considering how she got her and Oz's children killed). Especially Cinder who should've died at Raven's hands (and has a voice that can't be taken seriously).

4. The Human VS Faunus subplot is poorly told.

5. Ruby is a designated protagonist. Especially with how hard last season tried to force her into some savior figure.

Overarching fixes:

1. If we're going to stick with a "Grey Ozpin", then we need to not only have him do legitimately dubious acts but they recognized as such by enough of major cast. Maybe have him talk Raven into becoming a maiden behind Qrow's back with her abandonment of Yang at least somewhat driven by circumstances beyond mamma's control. Maybe reveal that he was behind Sienna Khan's position within the White Fang since he wanted to use the faunus as weapons against Salem.

2. Merges and cuts. Can Oscar and make Jaune the one who becomes Ozpin's new body. Just make Adam a lady.

3. For Salem, her backstory can be rewritten where instead of coming off as a twisted woman who ruins the world at the first oppurtunity she's presented as a fallen heroine who slowly comes into darkness after years of war and rule.

4. So many places to go. Maybe establish that humans already conquered faunus (who'd be notably inferior in society) and with the aid of collaborators (for money, weaponry, aid against enemies) maintain a slave system until relatively recently.

5. Honestly, I wonder if the show just has too many lead characters to follow and would be better with three. I vote Ruby since she's easily the least relevant to her world even with the Silver Eyes. Also it still lets the show have the ruby pun (WBY).
 
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Roland Daggett said:
What does Ruby add to the series at this point? Or Yang? Even Weiss and Blake who have plotlines aren't really contributing anything. That's to do with the writing of the show.
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Honestly, they could've had something good with Ruby realizing she and her friends were nothing but pawns in a game of cosmic chess, or something about her mother. But honestly, V5 killed any momentum and V6 was just course reset/damage control for her, and I really don't think her mother will really be addressed as a character proper. As for Yang, I read someone one on Twitter point out that V5 wrapped up all her threads and now she's just the muscle and there to set up Bumblebee. Blake also has her stuff pretty much done. And Weiss might just have her arc finished. Then she'll just be there to bait the comedy duo of White Rose and be called flat.
Roland Daggett said:
And on top of that we could have gotten actual development of her relationship with Jaune. Setting up a romance only to do literally nothing with it is not good writing. Actually seeing her and Jaune developed as a couple would actually be nice and would come with its own challenges as a writer. Why set it up if they're not gonna go through with it? And ironically despite them trying to develop Jaune by killing Pyrrha they stunted his growth. Jaune's entire development was based on Pyrrha helping him, and with her killed off Jaune just meanders as a character. He's floundered around for years and the only thing he has going for him now is being upset about Pyrrha. And even then that isn't really explored much and at most we just get a couple of emotionally manipulative scenes where they desperately hope you cry when they bring up that Pyrrha died. It's not interesting. Frankly having Pyrrha around is much better for Jaune's character cause then he could properly develop.
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Honestly, I've seen rewrites that have Jaune die instead of Phyrra.
 
Roland Daggett said:
What does Ruby add to the series at this point? Or Yang? Even Weiss and Blake who have plotlines aren't really contributing anything. That's to do with the writing of the show. Jaune, Ren, and Nora are beyond superfluous at this point. Pyrrha was a worldwide famous celebrity and sports star. We could have explored the celebrity culture of Remnant and how different Kingdoms view Pyrrha. We could have seen Pyrrha balance her career as a Huntress and her celebrity obligations. One of the biggest failings with Pyrrha's character is that her being famous was rarely brought up and never actually shown in any depth. We could learn about Pyrrha's family which considering how famous she is could easily lead to interactions with world leaders, especially in Mistral. Pyrrha was from Mistral so we could have seen the people in her home Kingdom react to her and interact with her. Weiss is a different kind of famous so this provides a different opportunity to explore a different part of the culture of Remnant.

And on top of that we could have gotten actual development of her relationship with Jaune. Setting up a romance only to do literally nothing with it is not good writing. Actually seeing her and Jaune developed as a couple would actually be nice and would come with its own challenges as a writer. Why set it up if they're not gonna go through with it? And ironically despite them trying to develop Jaune by killing Pyrrha they stunted his growth. Jaune's entire development was based on Pyrrha helping him, and with her killed off Jaune just meanders as a character. He's floundered around for years and the only thing he has going for him now is being upset about Pyrrha. And even then that isn't really explored much and at most we just get a couple of emotionally manipulative scenes where they desperately hope you cry when they bring up that Pyrrha died. It's not interesting. Frankly having Pyrrha around is much better for Jaune's character cause then he could properly develop.
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The real question is, what does ANYONE contribute to the story at this point? The main characters have plots that go nowhere (or take too damn long to get anywhere), and the supporting cast are supposed to be there to carry the main characters. And if the leads aren't important, then no one's important.

You could just as easily write the story around any of the one-off teams and nothing would change. It'd be nice if Season 7 attempted to address that issue, but given Miles and Kerry's work ethic, I doubt that'll happen.
 
It's what happens when you have too many characters. Especially when they're there for fight scenes like Coco's team, whatever Penny is there for, etc.
 
Sayon said:
At times I wonder if the show would be better if there was no Jaune and instead his character was consolidated into Pyrrha as Ruby's BFF.

Anyway, overarching problems:

1. Ozpin is not a suitably "grey" character for all the hubbub he got last season for all his mean lies. The one time he does something legit "grey" (covering up Lionheart's betrayal), it's shrugged off by RWBY and Qrow.

2. There are too many characters.

3. The villains are meh to poor overall (Salem alone fails at how she's apparently supposed to be some tragic heroine forced into darkness considering how she ). Especially Cinder who should've died at Raven's hands (and has a voice that can't be taken seriously).

4. The Human VS Faunus subplot is poorly told.

5. Ruby is a designated protagonist. Especially with how hard last season tried to force her into some savior figure.

Overarching fixes:

1. If we're going to stick with a "Grey Ozpin", then we need to not only have him do legitimately dubious acts but they recognized as such by enough of major cast. Maybe have him talk Raven into becoming a maiden behind Qrow's back with her abandonment of Yang at least somewhat driven by circumstances beyond mamma's control. Maybe reveal that he was behind Sienna Khan's position within the White Fang since he wanted to use the faunus as weapons against Salem.

2. Merges and cuts. Can Oscar and make Jaune the one who becomes Ozpin's new body. Just make Adam a lady.

3. For Salem, her backstory can be rewritten where instead of coming off as a twisted woman who ruins the world at the first oppurtunity she's presented as a fallen heroine who slowly comes into darkness after years of war and rule.

4. So many places to go. Maybe establish that humans already conquered faunus (who'd be notably inferior in society) and with the aid of collaborators (for money, weaponry, aid against enemies) maintain a slave system until relatively recently.

5. Honestly, I wonder if the show just has too many lead characters to follow and would be better with three. I vote Ruby since she's easily the least relevant to her world even with the Silver Eyes. Also it still lets the show have the ruby pun (WBY).
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Another problem is too many Mcguffins. V1 and V2 had no mcguffins except maybe Penny. V3 introduced the maidens and also killed off Penny (also worth noting is that it has been 3 volumes and so far nothing related to Penny has happened despite the very obvious build up that she was supposed to be important. And then at the end of V3 silver eyes were introduced which weren't really followed up on until V6. Then V4/V5 (I forget which) reveals that the Maiden powers were just the key to YET ANOTHER set of mcguffins. That's like if in KOTOR instead of revealing the location of the star forge the star maps revealed the location to another 4 star maps that lead to the Star Forge
 
Notgoodwithusernames said:
Another problem is too many Mcguffins. V1 and V2 had no mcguffins except maybe Penny. V3 introduced the maidens and also killed off Penny (also worth noting is that it has been 3 volumes and so far nothing related to Penny has happened despite the very obvious build up that she was supposed to be important. And then at the end of V3 silver eyes were introduced which weren't really followed up on until V6. Then V4/V5 (I forget which) reveals that the Maiden powers were just the key to YET ANOTHER set of mcguffins. That's like if in KOTOR instead of revealing the location of the star forge the star maps revealed the location to another 4 star maps that lead to the Star Forge
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In Volume 2 Penny specifically tells Ruby she was told by Ironwood that she's super important and it felt like it was building up to Penny doing something really important later in the show. Then she's killed off as a cheap plot point (seriously Cinder didn't even plan for Penny's involvement but she's key to everything??? It doesn't make sense) and now Penny is so irrelevant she might as well have never been in the show in the first place. And might I add that PENNY IS A ROBOT. They treat it as if she was human and died but she's a freaking robot who can be rebuilt. She's actually mostly intact after being torn apart is there no way to repair her? Power her back up? Would her father have backups? Could she transfer her mind to another computer? Her "death" was such a joke because she should have been up and running again by the time Volume 4 started. But they refused to do anything with her. It's so frustrating.

And Miles has a problem with introducing more and more plotlines that mean nothing. The Maidens may have been an idea Monty came up with between seasons but Miles should have dropped that immediately. But not only did he keep it he kept adding MORE. We got the Maidens, the Relics, the stupid crap with Salem and Ozpin, all the nonsense powers the Relics have, the fact no one believed there was magic, and it's become a MacGuffin fest. Now the characters are all just running around the world to keep the wheels of the show spinning with no real direction to the story.
 
Roland Daggett said:
In Volume 2 Penny specifically tells Ruby she was told by Ironwood that she's super important and it felt like it was building up to Penny doing something really important later in the show. Then she's killed off as a cheap plot point (seriously Cinder didn't even plan for Penny's involvement but she's key to everything??? It doesn't make sense) and now Penny is so irrelevant she might as well have never been in the show in the first place. And might I add that PENNY IS A ROBOT. They treat it as if she was human and died but she's a freaking robot who can be rebuilt. She's actually mostly intact after being torn apart is there no way to repair her? Power her back up? Would her father have backups? Could she transfer her mind to another computer? Her "death" was such a joke because she should have been up and running again by the time Volume 4 started. But they refused to do anything with her. It's so frustrating.

And Miles has a problem with introducing more and more plotlines that mean nothing. The Maidens may have been an idea Monty came up with between seasons but Miles should have dropped that immediately. But not only did he keep it he kept adding MORE. We got the Maidens, the Relics, the stupid crap with Salem and Ozpin, all the nonsense powers the Relics have, the fact no one believed there was magic, and it's become a MacGuffin fest. Now the characters are all just running around the world to keep the wheels of the show spinning with no real direction to the story.
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Where the hell did Miles learn how to write
 
Roland Daggett said:
And might I add that PENNY IS A ROBOT. They treat it as if she was human and died but she's a freaking robot who can be rebuilt. She's actually mostly intact after being torn apart is there no way to repair her? Power her back up? Would her father have backups? Could she transfer her mind to another computer? Her "death" was such a joke because she should have been up and running again by the time Volume 4 started. But they refused to do anything with her. It's so frustrating.
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From what I've seen of fans and talking to my friends, the consensus seems to be that if Penny comes back, it'll be as a generic military bot with no memory of Ruby and her friends. Personally, I'm hoping we see Penny get hacked by the villains so she's forced to be their personal death slave, forcing Ruby to learn to mercy kill by destroying everything having to do with The Penny Project. Sure, it may be too complicated and morbid for this show, but I just think it's cool potential and a logical way to address Penny being a robot.

Also, who doesn't love psychopathic robots? You could get some at least decent action out of that.
 
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