UN Venezuela Megathread - Mercenaries 2 references galore! Cubanodun is MVP

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Their Oil is way to thick. you cant use it alone in a refinery, you need lighter oil to mix in.

You are wrong and dumb. If the Canadians can refine oilsand, which is the consistency of tar after removing the sand, straight heavy crude isn't a problem. It just takes investing in infrastructure to handle heavy crude. Several gulf coast refineries saw a business opportunity and did just that.

Coal-liquefaction is way cleaner and the area are easyer to restore.
Only a German could advocate for Coal Gasification. How is it easier to restore a coal strip mine than an oilsands strip mine? They put the sand back after they get the oil out. It's practically environmental cleanup.
 
You are wrong and dumb. If the Canadians can refine oilsand, which is the consistency of tar after removing the sand, straight heavy crude isn't a problem. It just takes investing in infrastructure to handle heavy crude. Several gulf coast refineries saw a business opportunity and did just that.


Only a German could advocate for Coal Gasification. How is it easier to restore a coal strip mine than an oilsands strip mine? They put the sand back after they get the oil out. It's practically environmental cleanup.
Removing the sand is a huge problem you dont have with coal. You need to clean up giant amount of water after the extraction.
those gulf coast refineries invested in heavy crude because it can be mixed with lighter sweeter local and imported oil and because the prices were so high with tanking supplies that they were glad for everything they could buy.

Coal Liquefaction produces super clean fuel, and coal reserves arent in crisis zones.
Yes i know the US is producing alot of tight oil atm, but nobody is making money with that, its an industrie of zombie companys and will end sooner than later.
 
Happening Status upgraded: IT BEGINS
2 BTR-80A's and troop bus(es) across the border from Cùcuta.
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So what's with their oil anyway? It's heavy and highly impure, but what do they have to do to make it usable? Do they even have a functional refinery infrastructure any more or did they sell it off like a bunch of crackheads, like they sold off everything else functional?

But if their oil is so shit, why were they making so much money before it all came crashing down?

It is super heavy and full of impurities like sulfur that you have burn off. The impurity content is high enough to makes a noticable difference in barrel output. It also doesn't store well, you have to pump it and refine it ASAP, and your output really tanks if you want to refine high-octane product. Venezuela crude is good for diesel and asphalt. Also because it is shit, you have to tune your refinery to run off Venezuela sludge. I don't remember what you have to do exactly (had a neighbor who worked for a refinery back when Chavez nationalized, and his general opinion was Chavez could fuck off and keep his shit oil), but its dirty and you need to have a crew that knows what they're doing, with the right equipment, or the output is garbage.

Anyway, the reason Venezuela could make money was their retrieval costs are negligible, and they could ship quickly and cheaply directly to the refineries of the #1 oil consumer. Its the worst oil ever, but its near the surface and in nice big deposits, so you don't need to drill a bunch of oil wells. And since the government owns all the land, they don't have to share mineral rights with no scrubs.
Basically low retrieval & shipping production costs.

Placing an oil rig is an expensive endeavor, and whatever you hit, you're going to refine. A lot of the gulf coast rig oil is also pretty shit & high sulfur, but you can't just say "well this sucks, lets go somewhere else" because of what went into drilling the well, so you tune your refinery and you refine it. This meant the US gulf coast had refineries with the right equipment, and crew with the right skill, to refine Venezuela's shit oil.

This skill & equipment gap is a (good part) of why Venezuela can't refine their own oil. Chevron and Texaco were working on refineries to process Venezuelan crude in-country, but they were having problems that could be surmised as "corruption & unrealistic demands". IIRC the slow progress of hillybilly party loyalists to learn how to be petroleum engineers was one of the excuses Chavez used to nationalize the oil industry. All that shit is now rusting or got looted.

edit: IIRC the gulf coast US refineries don't need to mix Venezuela heavy with anything, but do need to mix extra heavy with lighter oil to refine. Venezuela's refinery infrastructure is not advanced enough to refine the domestic product and have to cut it with lighter oil to make it fluid enough to process; which makes Russia telling them to get fucked even more devastating.
Russia would do some shell games where they would buy (or more specifically by the rights to) a tanker full of light weight crude and/or straight up gasoline, trade that tanker to Venezeula for some of their shit oil and usually some cash, then the Russians would trade the tanker full of Venezuela oil to a US petrolium interest (or possibly to a 3rd part would trade the oil the US refineries).
With the Russian oil oiligarchy cutting them lose, they now have to find partners piecemeal to do the trades with.
 
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Is it though? Or are the Venezuelans just waggling their dicks at the Colombians?
Probably both. We're only on the level 2, so no need to get excited yet. They probably are worried about people smuggling humanitarian supplies. People smuggling food into the country for free would probably cause everyone to loose their shit.
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Missed @Ghostse's post: The high sulfur content is why most of the diesel refined from Venezuelan crude gets shipped to Brazil and points south. It's easier and cheaper to ship it south than make Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.
 
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Mostly agree. There should be no direct US troops anywhere near Venezuela (beyond the usual technical observers and advisors hanging out in Columbia.). The US should however enforce the Monroe Doctrine to keep outside powers outside. And lend logistical and Inteligence support to Columbia and Brazil as needed. A no fly zone should Maduro resort to barrel bombing the civilian population is also not a bad option.
Does the Monroe Doctrine apply to Cuba? I thought it only applied to European powers trying to colonize a country that had already become independent in the Americas.
 
One more bit of Refinery 'spergin:
Refineries operate at peak efficiency when they are going full tilt. It costs a good bit of money to get a refinery going, and it costs more to run it at anything less than full load, due to the nature of the process, where you are recycling heat and product output. Venezeula's operating refineries are said to be running at about half their output, which means whaterver they're refining, its incredibly wasteful.

Is it though? Or are the Venezuelans just waggling their dicks at the Colombians?

Also watch Brazil shoot in and rape them in the arse now.

My guess is probably trying to be ready for any cross-border shenanigans. I don't think its even dickwaving, this is "oh shit oh shit they might want to get some payback for us sheltering FARC".

Does the Monroe Doctrine apply to Cuba? I thought it only applied to European powers trying to colonize a country that had already become independent in the Americas.

It wasn't even about trying to keep them from colonizing, it was to keep the shit show that was European royal family politics from getting near the US and directly affecting us. Basically the US wanted nothing to do with feudal alliances and royal succession and all the shit that would come a head in things like the Napoleon's conquests, the Crimean War and World War I. We wanted to remain Isolationist from the shit show that was European politics, so in order to maintain that isolationism we needed to make sure no European powers got (back) into the Americas; specifically that no European monarchs set up franchise operations. We would maintain this isolationism from European affairs by intervention in other western hemisphere nations if needed.
The US didn't want German Prussian naval assets fucking with our local shipping because one of the trading nations was ruled by a Hapsburg and was therefore technically at war with the Prussians.

This sort of got corrupted fairly quick into fucking with South American countries in whatever way benefited immediate US interests, strategic or business.
 
One more bit of Refinery 'spergin:
Refineries operate at peak efficiency when they are going full tilt. It costs a good bit of money to get a refinery going, and it costs more to run it at anything less than full load, due to the nature of the process, where you are recycling heat and product output. Venezeula's operating refineries are said to be running at about half their output, which means whaterver they're refining, its incredibly wasteful.
They only have their own crude. normaly refineries mix different oil typs to get the best results.
they also could run out of storage for heavy fuel while not producing enough gasoline to meet demand. their crude produces a very bad mix for their domestic demand.
 
Mostly agree. There should be no direct US troops anywhere near Venezuela (beyond the usual technical observers and advisors hanging out in Columbia.). The US should however enforce the Monroe Doctrine to keep outside powers outside. And lend logistical and Inteligence support to Columbia and Brazil as needed. A no fly zone should Maduro resort to barrel bombing the civilian population is also not a bad option.
Would a no fly zone apply to civilian aircraft?
 
If he starts bombing civilians from aircraft, yes. You ground everything. If the Venezuelan Air Force stays out of it, then no, civilian flying is fine. They gotta escape somehow.
Why ban civilian flying when it's the military doing the bombing?
 
Why ban civilian flying when it's the military doing the bombing?

Because it's a lot easier just to shoot down anything you see on your radar than have to figure it out, and because if they've declared a no-fly zone, you have fucked up so badly you have lost all rights to have birds in the air.
 
well, Sunday has come and gone with Maduro refusing to conduct snap elections, so I guess all those EU countries will have to follow through with their earlier commitment to withdraw recognition from Maduro in favor of Guaido's interim government.
 
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