🪦 Deceased Gwen Hartley & The Hartley Hooligans - Attention Seeking Horrorshow Mom of Two Dead Gremlins & Finally Free Human Son

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Wendy Gilker is another good example of a mom who isn't freakishly out of touch with reality about her child's life, and her daughter died last year. She's a total loon in every other regard but she's also 66 and spent half her life caring for her daughter on her own, but she understood her child's quality of life was poor and didn't want to drag it out with needless suffering when she was past her time.

Wendy Gilker's insistence on using outdated, disproven therapies like patterning is part of the reason Bree was so messed up. The Institute for the Achievement of Human Potential that she learned all of that shit from is a sham. They also teach (or at least did teach when I was a kid, about when she was taking bree there) shoving gobs of peanut butter into non-verbal childrens' mouths to strengthen the muscles in advance of teaching them to talk and several children have choked and died from it. And they promote "rebreathing" which is basically making the child hyperventilate into a bag to increase the amount of carbon dioxide they inhale in an attempt to force more blood to reach the brain. And fluid restriction, blasting their ear drums with loud sounds, hanging them upside down...

Basically everything an already brain damaged child should not be forced to do, and none of it with proven benefits. Bree was much worse off than other people with her condition because of it.
 
Claire was the shambles of her normal life that she desperately clung to.

I compare the Hartleys and their delusional idealized version of coping with having profoundly disabled children to other people, who realized immediately their lives would never be the same and stopped pretending like they would. Wendy Gilker is another good example of a mom who isn't freakishly out of touch with reality about her child's life, and her daughter died last year. She's a total loon in every other regard but she's also 66 and spent half her life caring for her daughter on her own, but she understood her child's quality of life was poor and didn't want to drag it out with needless suffering when she was past her time.

The Hartley's never changed their routine or how they presented themselves. They dragged their two extremely disabled children out on activities they couldn't enjoy or participating and where they were at risk for catching illnesses they can't fight off. They're mourning their idea of their daughter, not the sad reality of her life.
I couldn't imagine spending so much time caring for someone like that. I'd have put Bree in a institute from day one. Profoundly disabled people like Bree already barely have anything resembling a life at all and will waste away their parent's life as well.

Have we got details about the funeral yet?

Will Clare be composted or baked?
pureed
 
What the hell is the bleating, anyway? Is it analogous to some primitive reflex?
My completely uneducated guess would be she might just occasionally inhale air wrong, leading to throat spasms and noise. That's basically what something like laughter is, too. I can't think it would be even a primal thing like a rat screeching to alert danger, because that would require some level of ability to at least perceive, which Lola can't.
 
Im interested in how the hell gwen sleeps if she has a child in her arms who constantly seizes? Surely their night RN also has to look after Lola.
Don't ever trust Gwen's narrative on anything related to the Hooligans. Claiming she sleeps with Lola in her arms makes her look like Supermommy and gets her additional asspats, which makes her narrative very suspect.

My completely uneducated guess would be she might just occasionally inhale air wrong, leading to throat spasms and noise. That's basically what something like laughter is, too. I can't think it would be even a primal thing like a rat screeching to alert danger, because that would require some level of ability to at least perceive, which Lola can't.
I had always assumed that it was Lola's primitive attempt at vocalizing but your response makes sense and also shows me that I was probably too :optimistic: about the situation.
 
Wendy Gilker's insistence on using outdated, disproven therapies like patterning is part of the reason Bree was so messed up. The Institute for the Achievement of Human Potential that she learned all of that shit from is a sham. They also teach (or at least did teach when I was a kid, about when she was taking bree there) shoving gobs of peanut butter into non-verbal childrens' mouths to strengthen the muscles in advance of teaching them to talk and several children have choked and died from it. And they promote "rebreathing" which is basically making the child hyperventilate into a bag to increase the amount of carbon dioxide they inhale in an attempt to force more blood to reach the brain. And fluid restriction, blasting their ear drums with loud sounds, hanging them upside down...

Basically everything an already brain damaged child should not be forced to do, and none of it with proven benefits. Bree was much worse off than other people with her condition because of it.

I agree. The one way that Wendy ever seemed better than Gwen or the Buells , is that Wendy seemed to love and accept her daughter as she was and didn't try to convince the world that Bree actually had a deep, complex personality and amazing, miraculous abilities, but that's about it, in most other ways she was as bad as Jaxon's parents and Gwen.

Wendy was initially told that Bree wouldn't live past five, however not much was known about Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome when Bree was born, and it turns out that quite a few people with it actually do live into adulthood. Yet Wendy liked to credit herself and her crazy therapies as the reason that Bree lived into her 30s.
The truth is that those so called therapies and Wendy's many "woo" treatments probably did her daughter more harm than good. Wendy bragged that years of a certain therapy allowed Bree to crawl or "creep" on her hands and knees, but if you look at other patients with WHS, they are actually able to do more than just crawl a few hundred feet a day and are also able to interact with the outside world and communicate better than Bree could. I'm not saying it's all Wendy's fault. Like most other syndromes and conditions, Wolf-Hirschhorn likely exists on a spectrum and Bree may have been at the more severely afflicted end of it. However, considering how many WHS patients seem to have fairly similar levels of functioning, it's not hard to conclude that at least some of Bree's extreme disability was down to her environment.

ETA: I dont know about anyone else, but I always thought it was a bit odd that Wendy referred to Bree's movements as "creeping"instead of "crawling," like most parents would do if their kid moved around on their hands and knees. Not a huge huge deal, but just something I noticed because certain words carry certain connotations and "creep" or "creeping" brings to mind spiders, insects or sinister strangers lurking in the shadows. Imagine how weird it would be if a friend posted on their facebook: "Great news everyone, the baby started creeping today!"
 
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I always viewed the other way around. I always thought that Lola was her favorite, mostly because she seems more frail and it is inevitably more practical to take her everywhere due her being the size of a bag of sugar. It fits in her fantasy of having a perma baby more than Claire who just looked like a very fucked up disabled child. Lola just looks like a goblin.
I've been bingeing Gwen's Instagram and blog for the past several days. Lola is definitely the favorite. Despite that, Claire seems to be treated with more dignity in her photos (though that isn't saying much).
 
I've been bingeing Gwen's Instagram and blog for the past several days. Lola is definitely the favorite. Despite that, Claire seems to be treated with more dignity in her photos (though that isn't saying much).

Oh, no doubt Lola is definitely the favorite. Why is anyone's guess. Maybe because she's the smallest and unti Claire died, Lola seemed to be the most medically fragile. Maybe it was because in the fantasy that Gwen created in her mind, Lola had more in common with her.BTW Gwen actually did say in an interview that Lola's personality was most like hers.
Anyway, while it's anyone's guess as to exactly why Lola was the favorite , its easy to see that she was. And yet...that's where the weird dichotomy of crazy Gwen's personality comes in, because even though Lola was the prefered child, she was also the most degraded and mistreated. Lola was the one who was usually the subject of Gwen's bizarre scatological obsessions where she would describe in the grossest of detail how Lola would shit herself or how she'd have trouble shitting and Scott would have to help her shit. And when words proved insufficient, there would be photos.

Gwen claimed Lola had such terrible issues with insomnia that it was sometimes almost impossible for her to fall asleep and when she did, she could only remain asleep for very short periods of time. Yet when she did catch her slumbering, Gwen would tap her awake over and over, just to shoot a video her lifting her head up and dropping it back down.
If these girls had any inkling of awareness at all, I would say that Claire was actually fortunate not to have been the favorite.
 
Luckily for us, humans cannot be taxidermied. Attempts have been made, but... let’s just say they didn’t end well.
Maybe a wax figure of Claire’s likeness? That would be equally disturbing and would not desecrate her body further. She could still dress it up for Halloween!
(God I feel gross for even suggesting that.)

I sure hope for staff at Madam Tussaud’s sake Gwen doesn’t catch wind of this idea.
 
I used to read lcf before I found Kiwi farms, but I actually thought the Hartley threads had been closed for a while. Whenever a thread would reach a certain length, they'd start a new one. I think there were three or maybe 4 threads about them on the site, but after the last Hartley thread ended some time ago, I was never able to find another one. I figured that no one had started a new one or lcf had shut down the topic for some reason and I eventually just gave up searching. Was there an extended delay of time between when the last Hartley thread on lcf ended and the current one began or had it been there the whole time and I was just never able to find it?

The closed thread was only 206 replies. LCF threads auto-lock at 1200 posts, and the Hartley threads slowed down as time went on, my theory is more people started coming here to talk about Gwen.
 
Oh, no doubt Lola is definitely the favorite. Why is anyone's guess. Maybe because she's the smallest and unti Claire died, Lola seemed to be the most medically fragile. Maybe it was because in the fantasy that Gwen created in her mind, Lola had more in common with her.BTW Gwen actually did say in an interview that Lola's personality was most like hers.
Anyway, while it's anyone's guess as to exactly why Lola was the favorite , its easy to see that she was. And yet...that's where the weird dichotomy of crazy Gwen's personality comes in, because even though Lola was the prefered child, she was also the most degraded and mistreated. Lola was the one who was usually the subject of Gwen's bizarre scatological obsessions where she would describe in the grossest of detail how Lola would shit herself or how she'd have trouble shitting and Scott would have to help her shit. And when words proved insufficient, there would be photos.

Gwen claimed Lola had such terrible issues with insomnia that it was sometimes almost impossible for her to fall asleep and when she did, she could only remain asleep for very short periods of time. Yet when she did catch her slumbering, Gwen would tap her awake over and over, just to shoot a video her lifting her head up and dropping it back down.
If these girls had any inkling of awareness at all, I would say that Claire was actually fortunate not to have been the favorite.

There's a blog post that outlines what Gwen says she was feeling at the time of Claire's birth in regards to feeding, opposed to Lola.
I get the impression that even though Gwen loved Claire and worried for Claire, at the start she couldn't bond with her, because she didn't "act" like a regular baby - she wouldn't breastfeed, she vomited etc. I think Gwen may have resented that lack of ability to have a "real" baby experience with Claire and thus it impacted her overall longterm view of Claire. Then Claire needed the G-Tube. At one point Gwen bemoaned the fact that Claire's feeding machine was in her room and deemed it "Humiliating". I don't think she intentionally hated Claire for it or anything, I just think it did impact her ability to bond with her, because Gwen is a dumb narc. She's not exactly reflective or insightful, just selfish. If she was anything but, she wouldn't have had the goblin called Lola.

So come hell or high water, Lola WAS to be fed. Lola WAS to be a proper baby experience for Gwen, because damn it, Gwen's earned it.
It didn't matter that the side effect of "being fed" meant Lola was stuck in permababy size. Infact, that was just a great side effect for Gwen.

MONDAY, APRIL 23, 2018
Bottles & Buckets



Lola ~ April 22, 2018
Last night as I was feeding Lola her bottle, I remembered something important I wanted to share with all of you. Let me back up for a minute...
When Claire was born almost 17 years ago, she struggled with her feedings. I was bound and determined to breastfeed her. I wanted every single additional IQ point I could maybe provide for her & also longed to connect with her any way possible. So, every single feeding every 2-3 hours involved me breastfeeding her first which was a struggle for her and me (Let's not even discuss her tonic bite... suffice it to say our nursing relationship ended when blood was drawn! <gasp!>), then I would use the breast pump for 5-10 minutes to be sure I had extra milk for her and to keep my supply up, and lastly, I would feed her another ounce or two via a bottle to be sure she got enough. I would then sit her up, burp her, and watch her reflux the contents of her stomach into the bowl I kept next to the couch for just this very thing. I would pour what she vomited back into the bottle to see how much she lost, and it was usually 3/4+ of the total amount I fed her. No matter what I tried, this happened every feeding, maybe 8-10 times a day. It was brutal and frustrating and draining for both of us. She could not be laid flat EVER, due to her severe reflux. The medicine her doctor prescribed for us to help with her reflux actually made her vomit even more, if that was even possible. I don't know how she continued to gain weight amidst all this chaos, but she did.
It wasn’t until Claire started solid foods (organic, raw, fresh bananas and avocados) around 9-12 months of age that the reflux finally stopped. I found myself resorting to solids more than liquids because she was able to tolerate those so much better. She was unable to use food thickeners for her liquids because they contained her food allergens. I knew she needed more liquids, so I would add an ounce or so of her formula to her mashed avocados & bananas. I also was able to add butter and ghee to her feedings to increase her caloric intake. Her bi-weekly weight checks showed unbelievably slow but steady gains. It wasn’t until Claire contracted Rotavirus at age 3 that we realized how important her hydration was. The illness involved nearly constant diarrhea and vomiting over the course of several days. This led to severe dehydration and almost her death. Chronic dehydration is no joke. We had a g-tube placed a month later when her body was stronger, and we’ve never looked back since. Claire is probably the healthiest member of our family. She never enjoyed eating, and the g-tube, while it seems invasive and scary, honestly isn’t that big of a deal. We promised her we would never again let her get dehydrated. She is rarely ill, and her diet is immaculate (full of fresh, organic fruits, vegetables & greens) because she doesn’t have to taste it. HA! Total win-win. Best decision we ever made was getting Claire a g-tube, and 13 years later, I have zero regrets about doing so. It saved her life.
Fast forward to a few months before Lola’s birth when we found out she too had the same condition as her sister — While we knew the g-tube was a lifesaver for Claire, I did sort of feel like we lost one of the last “normal” parts of parenthood the day she got her feeding tube. I remember praying for two things those last few months of Lola’s pregnancy:
  1. I prayed she would survive the birth process.
  2. I prayed she would be able to nurse and eat “normally” and that it would bring her joy.
Guys, Lola turns TWELVE in 5 days. 12!!!!! I am proud to say our prayers were answered. She is *still* able to drink from a bottle, she eats baby food off of a spoon like a champ, and she flat-out LOVES TO EAT still.
What hit me today is how absolutely miraculous this is. I will never forget all the people who told me right after Claire was born that she would likely lose the ability to eat & that it was pretty unrealistic to think that she would be able to continue to nurse/drink from a bottle/eat off a spoon for very much longer. I remember them telling me how it wasn’t that abnormal for her to be able to eat orally before age 1, maybe even age 2. They told me that somewhere between age 1-2, the suck-swallow reflex turns into a “learned behavior” and that a huge majority of kids who have brain abnormalities simply cannot learn how to coordinate this any longer. Many will begin to aspirate at some point. They will not be able to swallow effectively anymore, and the fluid that is accidentally aspirated into their lungs will make them sick with pneumonia. They all swore we would be in and out of the hospital frequently with aspiration pneumonia, and this would cause lung damage and scar tissue. At some point, their little bodies wouldn’t be able to fight this anymore. They all urged me to schedule a g-tube placement for her ASAP. They told me the warning signs to watch for. They worried about her small size and fragility. No one thought Claire would live to age 1.
After having Lola, these words echoed in my head once again. I remember being terrified once she turned 1 that I would soon see the decline occur. I watched her like a hawk during feedings. She was even tinier than her big sister, and she seemed to get sicker more often than Claire also. She too fought horrific projectile reflux (And it might have been more intense than Claire's ever was -- One incident, she actually projectile vomited a distance of 15 feet, which if you do the math on that, considering she was approximately 18" tall at the time, this would be like a 6' tall person vomiting a distance of 60 FEET! That shit was POWERFUL, yo!), though it was easier to replenish because she ate so well & had such a good appetite. To this day, I feel like much of our days are spent feeding and preparing fresh blended foods for the girls. (SO GRATEFUL for Scott, our babysitters & nurses for stepping up & helping share this responsibility with me now -- Don't know what I'd do without you guys!!!) I have always wanted to give them what they needed. I was determined to optimize their lives and “save them” from their grim prognoses. I wanted them to reach their full potentials no matter what. I still have no idea if anything we do has given them the opportunity to defy odds as they have or if it would have happened regardless. Honestly, it just makes me feel proactive & at this point, I'm scared shitless to stop doing what we're doing, as SOMETHING is clearly working.
I guess my message to all the parents of children with special needs is this:
No one freakin’ knows what the future holds. NO ONE! Not the leading expert in the field, not your pastor, not your Mama, not the parent who has a child JUST LIKE YOURS. Anything — and I mean ANYTHING! — is possible with these kiddos of ours. Be willing to think outside the box. Listen to your Mommy instincts. Question everything. Do your research. Ask other veteran moms for tips. Seek alternative solutions. Have a support network to lean on for additional help. Don’t give up on what you hoped for before the diagnosis. Never lose hope. Stay positive always, even if you have to "fake it till you make it." I repeat, NEVER. LOSE. HOPE!
None of this was supposed to happen. Claire & Lola were never supposed to be able to eat orally for years on end or survive past age 1 or progress developmentally or even have vision. They were supposed to be in the hospital frequently and ill often. Don’t get me wrong, we have struggles beyond what anyone can fathom, but they are struggles we are coping with and still learning from. Never doubt for a moment that your child isn’t strong AF because look at how hard they fight daily to be here and function. They are fucking warriors and superheroes and badass odds-defiers, every last one of them.



SO appreciate all who came before me carrying buckets... You guys saved ME.

xo
 
There's a blog post that outlines what Gwen says she was feeling at the time of Claire's birth in regards to feeding, opposed to Lola.
I get the impression that even though Gwen loved Claire and worried for Claire, at the start she couldn't bond with her, because she didn't "act" like a regular baby - she wouldn't breastfeed, she vomited etc. I think Gwen may have resented that lack of ability to have a "real" baby experience with Claire and thus it impacted her overall longterm view of Claire. Then Claire needed the G-Tube. At one point Gwen bemoaned the fact that Claire's feeding machine was in her room and deemed it "Humiliating". I don't think she intentionally hated Claire for it or anything, I just think it did impact her ability to bond with her, because Gwen is a dumb narc. She's not exactly reflective or insightful, just selfish. If she was anything but, she wouldn't have had the goblin called Lola.

So come hell or high water, Lola WAS to be fed. Lola WAS to be a proper baby experience for Gwen, because damn it, Gwen's earned it.
It didn't matter that the side effect of "being fed" meant Lola was stuck in permababy size. Infact, that was just a great side effect for Gwen.

Considering her near fetishization of their illness and being a ‘super mommy,’ without Claire popping out as a potato, would Gwen be a possible munchie by proxy type? Or is her relationship with the sassy teens more of a coping mechanism?
 
Considering her near fetishization of their illness and being a ‘super mommy,’ without Claire popping out as a potato, would Gwen be a possible munchie by proxy type? Or is her relationship with the sassy teens more of a coping mechanism?
The only reason I don't think so is because she already had Cal and she didn't do anything to him as far as i'm aware.

But damn if the potatoes weren't a gift to her attention-whoring personality.
 
There's a blog post that outlines what Gwen says she was feeling at the time of Claire's birth in regards to feeding, opposed to Lola.
I get the impression that even though Gwen loved Claire and worried for Claire, at the start she couldn't bond with her, because she didn't "act" like a regular baby - she wouldn't breastfeed, she vomited etc. I think Gwen may have resented that lack of ability to have a "real" baby experience with Claire and thus it impacted her overall longterm view of Claire. Then Claire needed the G-Tube. At one point Gwen bemoaned the fact that Claire's feeding machine was in her room and deemed it "Humiliating". I don't think she intentionally hated Claire for it or anything, I just think it did impact her ability to bond with her, because Gwen is a dumb narc. She's not exactly reflective or insightful, just selfish. If she was anything but, she wouldn't have had the goblin called Lola.

So come hell or high water, Lola WAS to be fed. Lola WAS to be a proper baby experience for Gwen, because damn it, Gwen's earned it.
It didn't matter that the side effect of "being fed" meant Lola was stuck in permababy size. Infact, that was just a great side effect for Gwen.


Claire & Lola were never supposed to be able to eat orally for years on end or survive past age 1 or progress developmentally

Umm... Gwen... Your gremlins have been at fetal level since day one. I don't know what developments you are talking about here. But newborns are more interactive.

Lola should have a tube. All her eating is reflexive because Gwen is putting food near her mouth. She's been skeletal for years.
 
I've been meaning to post about this, but...

Gwen's delusions about her daughters are common for those around the profoundly disabled.

I worked briefly in a day program that had the gall to pretend like it was actually teaching 'life skills' whilst the vast majority of those in the program were on the level of these potatoes. Those employees in the program were convinced that these individuals could enjoy TV or art or listening to the staff gossip, but these were essentially if Lola got to middle age... even Claire demonstrated more awareness.

The staff and parents have to believe there's something in there because otherwise, what's the point? But deep down, they know, and you can tell. They dont talk to the potatoes. They shuffle them around place to place. They will talk about the potato, but not to them. The potatoes never got to go swimming but the staff would pretend like every client got a fair share of pool time. But they will damn well believe that they are in there, locked behind their physical disabilities.

The delusions do them no favor, as we can see here. Claire was always shoved into uncomfortable situations for what little awareness she had (I.e. in a stranger's hands). Even though Gwen would say she is cortically blind, she would take the kid to a football game. It is all for Gwen's benefit. To maintain the delusion that someone exists in there and can love her back. It was never about her kids.

And in that sense, she never loved them.
 
Considering her near fetishization of their illness and being a ‘super mommy,’ without Claire popping out as a potato, would Gwen be a possible munchie by proxy type? Or is her relationship with the sassy teens more of a coping mechanism?
Imo, I'd say coping ; Gwen loves for a perfect image to be portrayed to the world.
Like how after moaning about how hard shit is, she'll say "But we LOVE our lives and wouldn't change a thing!". She's not mad yo, her life is damn near perfect y'all.

If the potatoes have a personality then she didn't make a bad choice and all the dressing them up and phototaking etc is really for their benefit too, since they're such sassy teens.
 
ETA: I dont know about anyone else, but I always thought it was a bit odd that Wendy referred to Bree's movements as "creeping"instead of "crawling," like most parents would do if their kid moved around on their hands and knees. Not a huge huge deal, but just something I noticed because certain words carry certain connotations and "creep" or "creeping" brings to mind spiders, insects or sinister strangers lurking in the shadows. Imagine how weird it would be if a friend posted on their facebook: "Great news everyone, the baby started creeping today!"

"Creeping" is what the Institute for Achievement of Human Potential calls it. It's actually a specific phase between "patterning" where the adults manipulate the limbs and head in sequence to "teach" the brain how rhythmically move the limbs, and crawling which is more purposeful movement than just dragging themselves across the ground. Normie parents also use "creeping" sometime as the phase where a baby is just kind of swimming forward on the floor on their abdomen but can't lift up off the ground and get real momentum going yet.

The IAHP still claim as fact that "the average human uses only 10% of their brain so the other 90% is just going to waste." They believe every child is capable of genius intelligence and have early education programs, music lessons, sensory programs, language development, reading and mathematics skills, etc for newborns and toddlers to help them utilize that alleged 90% that's being wasted. There's this thing they have about the supremacy of the Japanese, and they teach Suzuki music and Japanese language alongside the normal stuff (mind you this place is based in Philadelphia, PA and that's where Wendy took Bree). I don't see too much harm in it although I do think these classes attract the kind of stage parents who would be furious if their kid didn't turn out to be a prodigy.

I think the Japanese connection is also why Wendy Gilker was obsessed with macrobiotic diet.

But they also consider anything that makes a child less than their idea of perfect (autism, ADHD, cerebral palsy, Downs syndrome, epilepsy, low intelligence for any reason, any kind of behavior problem, deafness, blindness, movement disorders, apraxia, even just being a twin) as "brain injury" that needs to be fixed with their therapies. It's got weird eugenics overtones. Their entire "brain injured" program is based on a single Journal of the American Medical Association article published in 1960 testing the efficacy of a therapy developed in the 1940s, which was discredited by 1967. They dickied the results by using a sample that overrepresented postencephalitic and TBI children who typically make substantial recoveries with virtually no treatment at all. Another reason that the study had such positive outcomes is because of the era. Back then, a disabled kid would likely be stuck in an institution. Instead of warehousing children with developmental issues the parents were encouraged to spend a lot of time together, play games, listen to music, etc. So their little brains were actually being stimulated. Compared to the institutionalized kids, a disabled kid at home in an intensive stimulation program is going to look like Einstein. It does encourage lots of love, kisses, hugs, positive attention (and unlike the fucking Schofields, not food, ever) as rewards for completing sessions which is great, as long as the sessions aren't harming the kid.

In 1982 when Bree first went there, the American Academy of Pediatrics had just issued their second of many warnings not to use their method as it was too stressful for children who didn't understand what was happening to them. Did she know about it? Probably not, it's not like this place is well known or a quick Google would have brought up that information. And it seems like Bree genuinely enjoyed it and loved the positive response from her mother. But in 2018, the second result on Google is going to tell you various and sundry reasons their program is outdated at best and dangerous at worst and she was still shilling for them.

Sorry for derailing. I liked Wendy when I first saw her videos knowing nothing about Bree's condition, right up until I found out she went to the Institute. It's easy to see her as not as bad as the others but she still exploited her disabled child for youtube views and encouraged more parents to do outdated woo treatments through an overpriced outdated center that thinks your normal kid is re.tarded.

Back on topic, I thought I saw someone say that Lola' root reflex hasn't been as evident in more recent videos. What are the odds that Gwenneh finally gets her tubed to prolong her suffering vs let her starve to death and lose both her cash crops?
 
What the hell is the bleating, anyway? Is it analogous to some primitive reflex?

I've read about those infamous Lola bleating sounds on earlier posts and it's apparently horrifyingly disturbing. Sadly, all the video examples Kiwi posters used to showcase those bleatings are no longer available - Gwen must've gotten the hint and taken them down...or something,

I read by the posters they were the kind of noises that haunted your dreams, the sounds of primal agony - couldn't find anything of it on YouTube and wondering if I really should hear it or not...my curiosity is killing me.
 
I've read about those infamous Lola bleating sounds on earlier posts and it's apparently horrifyingly disturbing. Sadly, all the video examples Kiwi posters used to showcase those bleatings are no longer available - Gwen must've gotten the hint and taken them down...or something,

I read by the posters they were the kind of noises that haunted your dreams, the sounds of primal agony - couldn't find anything of it on YouTube and wondering if I really should hear it or not...my curiosity is killing me.
Yeah, I keep hearing about a lot of horrifying stuff that happened with this family, but it's pretty hard to find any timelines, or resources that's collected a lot of it without having to read through 200 pages on Kiwifarms.
 
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