Science Liquid water found on Mars - Is there life on Maaaaars?

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44952710

Researchers have found evidence of an existing body of liquid water on Mars.

What they believe to be a lake sits under the planet's south polar ice cap, and is about 20km (12 miles) across.

Previous research found possible signs of intermittent liquid water flowing on the martian surface, but this is the first sign of a persistent body of water on the planet in the present day.

Lake beds like those explored by Nasa's Curiosity rover show water was present on the surface of Mars in the past.

However, the planet's climate has since cooled due to its thin atmosphere, leaving most of its water locked up in ice.

The discovery was made using Marsis, a radar instrument on board the Mars Express orbiter.

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Image copyrightNASA/JPL/MALIN SPACE SCIENCE SYSTEMS
Image captionThe proposed lake sits beneath ice near the south pole of Mars
"It's probably not a very large lake," says Prof Roberto Orosei from the Italian National Institute for Astrophysics, who led the study.

Marsis wasn't able to determine how deep the layer of water might be, but the research team estimate that it is a minimum of one metre.

"This really qualifies this as a body of water. A lake, not some kind of meltwater filling some space between rock and ice, as happens in certain glaciers on Earth," Prof Orosei added.

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Image copyrightESA/INAF
Image captionArtists impression: Mars Express probing the planet's surface. Marsis radar results above.
How was it found?
Radar instruments like Marsis examine the surface and immediate subsurface of the planet by sending out a signal and examining what is bounced back.

The continuous white line at the top of the radar results above marks the beginning of the South Polar Layered Deposit; a filo pastry-like accumulation of water ice and dust.

Beneath this, researchers spotted something unusual 1.5km beneath the ice.

"In light blue you can see where the reflections from the bottom are stronger than surface reflection. This is something that is to us the tell tale sign of the presence of water," says Prof Orosei.

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Image copyrightUSGS ASTROGEOLOGY SCIENCE CENTER, ARIZONA STATE UN
Image captionArtists impression: Marsis data shows an area of high reflectivity (dark blue) which is thought to be water
What does this mean for life?
Nothing definitive. Yet.

Dr Manish Patel from the Open University explains: "We have long since known that the surface of Mars is inhospitable to life as we know it, so the search for life on Mars is now in the subsurface.

"This is where we get sufficient protection from harmful radiation, and the pressure and temperature rise to more favourable levels. Most importantly, this allows liquid water, essential for life."

This principle of following the water is key to astrobiology - the study of potential life beyond Earth.

So while the findings suggest water is present, they don't confirm anything further.

"We are not closer to actually detecting life," Dr Patel told BBC News, "but what this finding does is give us the location of where to look on Mars. It is like a treasure map - except in this case, there will be lots of 'X's marking the spots."

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Image copyrightSCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY
Image captionAstrobiologists study extreme environments like salt lakes on Earth to understand how life might survive on Mars
The water's temperature and chemistry could also pose a problem for any potential martian organisms.

In order to remain liquid in such cold conditions (the research team estimate between -10 and -30 Celsius where it meets the ice above), the water likely has a great many salts dissolved in it.

"It's plausible that the water may be an extremely cold, concentrated brine, which would be pretty challenging for life," explained Dr Claire Cousins, an astrobiologist from the University of St Andrews, UK.

What next?
While its existence provides a tantalising prospect for those interested in the possibility of past or present life on Mars, the lake's characteristics must first be verified by further research.

"What needs to be done now," explained Dr Matt Balme from the Open University, "is for the measurements to be repeated elsewhere to look for similar signals, and, if possible, for all other explanation to be examined and - hopefully - ruled out.

"Maybe this could even be the trigger for an ambitious new Mars mission to drill into this buried water-pocket - like has been done for sub-glacial lakes in Antarctica on Earth," he added.

_102684268_e2150346-lake_vostok_antarctica-spl.jpg
Image copyrightSCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY
Image captionThe area has been compared to Lake Vostok, which lies 4km beneath the Antarctic ice
Scientists have previously claimed to find bacterial life in the buried depths of Antarctica's Lake Vostok, but drilling on Mars would make for an ambitious project indeed.

"Getting there and acquiring the final evidence that this is indeed a lake will not be an easy task," says Prof Orosei.

"It will require flying a robot there which is capable of drilling through 1.5km of ice. This will certainly require some technological developments that at the moment are not available."

Seems it's a whole frozen lake under the pole, but still extremely interesting.
 
So on breaking bad walter was saying the theoretical importance of water on mars was that the water could be separated into hydrogen and oxygen, and used as fuel.

Now... there appear to be a number of problems with that assertion, including that I heard it on a fictional TV show, and that I don't think spaceships can run on the same fuel as the hindenburg, but has anyone heard anything similar anywhere else?

No joke, liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen are used to make rockets go.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/Rocketology/tag/liquid-hydrogen/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_rocket_propellant
 
I don't think spaceships can run on the same fuel as the hindenburg, but has anyone heard anything similar anywhere else?
The Hindenburg used hydrogen as a lifting gas, not fuel- when its stored hydrogen began to act as a fuel, things ended very poorly for her passengers. The Hindenburg's total hydrogen capacity was 200,000 cubic meters, while one of the 2001 hydrogen shuttles contained approx 1.14 million cubic meters, were you to unpack and somehow safely aerate its liquid contents. That's not to say that shuttle is just 5 Hindenburgs strong, since concentrating the force and timing of liquid hydrogen detonation is a big factor to making it an effective propellant.
 
I mean, it'd be cool to find life elsewhere, but... aside from being cool, who cares? Unless it was intelligent, then we can fight, but that seems unlikely in this case.
Alternative forms of life could potentially be very useful in the field of synthetic biology. I don't just mean pure science. I'm talking potential industrial and medical applications from advances in material science.

If by some odd chance the life found on Mars happened to be compatible with our own (which would be tremendously strong evidence for panspermia), then it would also likely be useful in more conventional biotech.
 
Do you guys think they're gonna find anything trapped under the water?

For context, similar underground lakes were found in Antarctica that has been isolated for millions of years and still had bacteria thriving there. While it's probably doubtful that life evolved in Martian underwater lakes on their own, if there were already bacteria there when the lakes were isolated there might still be something there. The conditions there are probably too harsh for complex life, but we already know that Earth bacteria can survive and thrive in conditions that would otherwise be inhospitable.

So on breaking bad walter was saying the theoretical importance of water on mars was that the water could be separated into hydrogen and oxygen, and used as fuel.

If you have access to fusion power but you're operating at a place without a lot of free hydrogen or helium, you could use water as a fuel source. The basic idea is you would land on some small icey body, separate the hydrogen and oxygen, and use the hydrogen as fuel while breathing the oxygen.
 
Life is tremendously durable. If Mars ever had life, I'd be willing to bet it's still there in some form. The first part is the big question.
 
The more we learn about Mars the more excited I get for a manned mission there. I think there’s real potential for a colony or something there, once our current technology improves.
 
Could be microbes. Multicellular life is unlikely but there could be something small like plankton or water bears.

Water bears are fucking insane. They are single-handedly the most badass and tough creatures on Earth, despite looking squishy and weirdly cute. They easily survive exposure to extreme temperatures, extreme high/low pressure, air deprivation, radiation, dehydration, starvation, and even the vacuum of space.


Sorry, sometimes I like to sperg about water bears.

Anyway, the point is that life is unbelievably durable. Once life starts on a planet, it's probably not going to go away. There are microorganisms here on Earth dubbed extremophiles because they don't just endure inhospitable conditions, they thrive in them. Complex life like what you see on Earth is probably really rare, but I bet a lot of planets are swarming with microbes.
 
Water bears are fucking insane. They are single-handedly the most badass and tough creatures on Earth, despite looking squishy and weirdly cute. They easily survive exposure to extreme temperatures, extreme high/low pressure, air deprivation, radiation, dehydration, starvation, and even the vacuum of space.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dork_85Q8uI
Sorry, sometimes I like to sperg about water bears.

Anyway, the point is that life is unbelievably durable. Once life starts on a planet, it's probably not going to go away. There are microorganisms here on Earth dubbed extremophiles because they don't just endure inhospitable conditions, they thrive in them. Complex life like what you see on Earth is probably really rare, but I bet a lot of planets are swarming with microbes.

Mars did have the conditions for life to develop at some point. I look forward to the day we can do paleontological digs on Mars, probably find something awesome.
 
No, send them to Venus.

Mars is potentially useful.
But they reee harder being sent on the planet associated with mens, we can then let Elon Musk nuke Mars then

This is going to be like that episode of Doctor Who.
No more like that episode of Justice League where explorers freed the White Martians.
 
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Why are people still so obsessed with Mars? Europa and Enceladus are where it's at.

But seriously, this is a major discovery.
 
So on breaking bad walter was saying the theoretical importance of water on mars was that the water could be separated into hydrogen and oxygen, and used as fuel.

Now... there appear to be a number of problems with that assertion, including that I heard it on a fictional TV show, and that I don't think spaceships can run on the same fuel as the hindenburg, but has anyone heard anything similar anywhere else?

I mean, it'd be cool to find life elsewhere, but... aside from being cool, who cares? Unless it was intelligent, then we can fight, but that seems unlikely in this case.


Not only is liquid hydrogen usable for rocket fuel, but hydrogen cell vehicles already exist. During the process of powering the vehicle, oxygen and hydrogen combine and flow out the tailpipe as liquid water (the only emission the process creates). It is then possible, although currently challenging, to split that water back into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis. Hypothetically, a system in which wind, geothermal, tidal, etc. power is used to perform electrolysis on water could be used to power hydrogen cells indefinitely.

edit: until they find a way to make fuel cells better than batteries, i want to make it clear that fuel cells aren't good for much. (currently they achieve the same goal of localizing or reducing pollution resulting from "dirty" fuel less than half as efficiently as batteries due to the difficulty of storing pure hydrogen) Batteries can also be powered indefinitely by "clean" sources, but they just aren't as cool. Like, "woah dude your car has a fuckin' battery in it? wooaaah sick" isn't ever gonna be a thing. "it runs on fuckin' air gas and water is all that comes out? holy shit bro" might actually happen.
 
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I doubt there will be anything higher than some form of extremophile algea at best.

Encaladus and Europe may have some low level fish like things, but don't get your hopes up for intelligent life, that won't be there.

It will not be like this, guys, as much as it pains me:

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More like this at the very best:

Opabinia_BW2.jpg
 
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