How is this a gotcha? It's literally just taking real, existing, factual, observable realities of secondary sex characteristics and dialling them up to a 1000,
How is this a gotcha? It's literally just taking real, existing, factual, observable realities of secondary sex characteristics and dialling them up to a 1000,
Troons basically accuse gender critical women of being sexist as they, allegedly, operate on "exaggerated secondary gender traits" when pointing out how a biological male in a dress is, well, male.
Which is ironic, considering how many troonies and soon-to-be-troonies have I seen claiming a canonically biological male character to have a secret female brain because "just look how effeminite he looks/acts!". A tomboyish woman dares to have muscles, a non-hourglass shape and cut her hair short? Uuum, sweaty, sounds like a clear t-boy sign to me!These people don't realize that the call comes straight from inside the house.
Trans ideology is also born from said meme picture perspective, partially because they do view their own biological sex in an exaggerated manner. Not "being comfortable" with the manly man image is what every gooner claims to be the reason he went for those titty skittles.
Okay, so there's this called the Bara genre, short for Barazoku. It's basically two gay men kissing, but made for gay men unlike Yaoi. If that's the case, then what's the equivalent for Yuri for actual gay women?
Okay, so there's this called the Bara genre, short for Barazoku. It's basically two gay men kissing, but made for gay men unlike Yaoi. If that's the case, then what's the equivalent for Yuri for actual gay women?
To remain on subject, you might remember Luna, the gifted Muslim artist who got flak for saying she would not take gay commissions for her Genshin Impact art. She was lambasted as a homophobe and told that she needed to toss aside her religion in the name of gay rights; Genshin Impact has one of the largest, most rabid MLM fanbase and do not accept any 'hetslop' of their blorbos. People then vowed to re-create her art on Tiktok to 'make it gay'. They are still harassing her and making posts for the crime of establishing boundaries. Turns out, she's not even Muslim at all, but a black woman.
I’m kinda impressed that all these users didn’t immediately fall on the floor in worship upon finding out that this a black woman, I guess even being that can’t save you from not wanting to do the art equivalent of baking a custom gay wedding cake.
Okay, so there's this called the Bara genre, short for Barazoku. It's basically two gay men kissing, but made for gay men unlike Yaoi. If that's the case, then what's the equivalent for Yuri for actual gay women?
There’s an actual genre difference between yaoi for women and bara for men, but from what I understand yuri doesn’t have such a strict delineation, there’s more than one audience for yuri but not much of a specific, blatant difference between yuri for men and yuri for women.
How is this a gotcha? It's literally just taking real, existing, factual, observable realities of secondary sex characteristics and dialling them up to a 1000,
It’s just a dumb strawman cope, obviously there are clear differences between male and female skeletons but they’d rather just all plug their ears and pretend like it’s all some made-up exaggeration invented in order to oppress them online.
Okay, so there's this called the Bara genre, short for Barazoku. It's basically two gay men kissing, but made for gay men unlike Yaoi. If that's the case, then what's the equivalent for Yuri for actual gay women?
Well, the term "Yuri" in itself originated from a female-reader-centric column of Barazoku (a magazine for gay men and, as you said, where the term "bara" came from), and later it evolved to mean all lesbian content in general; so it'd still be Yuri by default.
As terms, even if in this day and age you'd think otherwise, "Yaoi" and "Yuri" and not equivalents. "BL" is probably closer in meaning to "Yuri" than "Yaoi" or "Bara" ever would be, mostly because the latter two terms are very tongue-in-cheek and self-deprecating: "Bara" by itself means "pansy", whilst "Yaoi" was used to refer to gag doujins featuring BL in the same vein as you'd use "Fujoshi" to refer to their readerbase. It's like you're talking about raccoons digging through trash.
In other words, all these terms are basically commercial terms.
Okay, so there's this called the Bara genre, short for Barazoku. It's basically two gay men kissing, but made for gay men unlike Yaoi. If that's the case, then what's the equivalent for Yuri for actual gay women?
To remain on subject, you might remember Luna, the gifted Muslim artist who got flak for saying she would not take gay commissions for her Genshin Impact art. She was lambasted as a homophobe and told that she needed to toss aside her religion in the name of gay rights; Genshin Impact has one of the largest, most rabid MLM fanbase and do not accept any 'hetslop' of their blorbos. People then vowed to re-create her art on Tiktok to 'make it gay'. They are still harassing her and making posts for the crime of establishing boundaries. Turns out, she's not even Muslim at all, but a black woman.
This to me just proves that LGBT is higher on the "oppressed" ladder than non whites. It also proves that out of all minority groups, the "queer" community is the most aggressive community out of all minority groups. Dont get me wrong, some online black users complain about lack of diversity if a show has a white majority cast and excuse race swaps, but I dont think its nearly as bad as the queer community. Hell, sometimes when a show does have a white majority cast, I sometimes dont really see many non whites complaining about it. (At best, I might see lack of development for the black characters) Queers on the other hand always seem like the "You give them an inch and they take the whole mile" crowd. Even when they have canon gay characters on a show, they focus way more on the straight characters and headcanon them as some flavor of gay or trans to make it queer. Honestly, this might be because those who identify as LGBTQ have poorer mental health than non whites, but why are queers way more vicious when it comes to this over other minority groups?
BL is short for "Boys Love", that's how japanese fujoshi usually refer to the work involving yaoi/shonen ai content. The Yuri equivalent used in the same manner is called GL.
This to me just proves that LGBT is higher on the "oppressed" ladder than non whites. It also proves that out of all minority groups, the "queer" community is the most aggressive community out of all minority groups. Dont get me wrong, some online black users complain about lack of diversity if a show has a white majority cast and excuse race swaps, but I dont think its nearly as bad as the queer community. Hell, sometimes when a show does have a white majority cast, I sometimes dont really see many non whites complaining about it. (At best, I might see lack of development for the black characters) Queers on the other hand always seem like the "You give them an inch and they take the whole mile" crowd. Even when they have canon gay characters on a show, they focus way more on the straight characters and headcanon them as some flavor of gay or trans to make it queer. Honestly, this might be because those who identify as LGBTQ have poorer mental health than non whites, but why are queers way more vicious when it comes to this over other minority groups?
Maybe because literally anyone can identify into the queer community at any time they wish, so all the people identifying into it tend to be crazy and obsessed with politics since they wanted to be in the community to begin with as opposed to just arbitrarily being a part of it. That's my best guess.
I honestly think that most SJW artists are not drawing disguised fetish art. Labeling every woke drawing of a fat person as fetish art just avoids a reality that isn't even that harsh: SJWs are conditioned to be like this.
Late but I'm gonna be honest and say my two cents, I really don't think drawing a fat person = fetish. Someone else here said it best, it was a comment mentioning Peter Griffin, but it's like... Fat people do indeed exist, like how people with acne and glasses exist. And if all you do is draw "attractive" people, that's not being "Anti-woke" that's just being lazy. That's my opinion at least. I don't think it's fetish or conditioning (Not all the time at least), I think it's just... Reality. I draw fat people, and darkskinned people, and short people, tall people, people with acne, people with pimples, and I'm about as un-woke as it gets. It's just cause these people exist and pretending they don't (Or only including them to be villains or butts of jokes) just to make everyone look as fuckable as possible always felt really porn-brained to me.
Hot take but that transformation sucks, ya. She lost a lot of personality in her design, I can see why everyone's upset. Definitely not an issue of fetish.
I draw fat people, and darkskinned people, and short people, tall people, people with acne, people with pimples, and I'm about as un-woke as it gets. It's just cause these people exist and pretending they don't (Or only including them to be villains or butts of jokes) just to make everyone look as fuckable as possible always felt really porn-brained to me.
Art takes effort. Everything you put onto paper or screen is a conscious choice that requires effort. Why does the existence of something motivate the conscious choice to spend effort depicting it? Should artists be obligated to create art depicting crack houses and shit-smeared public toilets because those things are real and choosing to draw only clean living spaces is IKEA-brained? I'm asking this from one artist to another. There are lots of arguments like this sneeding about how artists aren't drawing uggos and darkies enough and I roll my eyes at all of them.
I can hardly be considered trad and I make art that gives me hope of positive, beautiful Western societies free of obesity and non-whites, so I never draw fatties and shitskins in my serious pieces. Physical flaws like acne will of course still exist in such a society, but adding focus to flaws in a work that's meant to uplift beauty and inspire hope detracts from its purpose.
What the fuck. I thought that was diaper fetish art from the thumbnail, got curious because it's normally male troons with this fetish, and made the poor decision to zoom in. That's pooner cripple period fetish art. Some woman sat herself down and made the conscious decision to draw a cripple pooner in panties showing off xher menstrual pad.
This is the type of art I like to call "quota art"
The artist really tried to tick as many boxes as possible with this piece.
Stuff like this really feels like the artist didn't really mean it out of the goodness of their heart, just wanted as many brownie points as possible.
Also I love how their sexualities are written bigger than their actual names.
Art takes effort. Everything you put onto paper or screen is a conscious choice that requires effort. Why does the existence of something motivate the conscious choice to spend effort depicting it? Should artists be obligated to create art depicting crack houses and shit-smeared public toilets because those things are real and choosing to draw only clean living spaces is IKEA-brained? I'm asking this from one artist to another. There are lots of arguments like this sneeding about how artists aren't drawing uggos and darkies enough and I roll my eyes at all of them.
Yes actually. No one has to draw anything, but in my opinion if an artist does have a weird opposition to drawing a dirty public toilet or a crack house when it would make sense for the story then ya that does seem kinda lazy and lame. The more things you can draw and the more things you're willing to draw the better, a wide range is the sign of a good artist. Just look at some of this, look at the different shape language and vibes.
Can you imagine how boring of a game Dragon's Lair would be if everyone looked like Dirk and Daphne? Only being able to draw one thing imo is the sign of a bad artist, like how only being able to cook pancakes is the sign of a bad chef, and we'd agree it'd be weird for that chef to go like "What!? WHAT!? You want me to make BURGERS!? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT??? Cooking takes time and effort, why would I waste it BRANCHING OUT and LEARNING???"
I can hardly be considered trad and I make art that gives me hope of positive, beautiful Western societies free of obesity and non-whites, so I never draw fatties and shitskins in my serious pieces. Physical flaws like acne will of course still exist in such a society, but adding focus to flaws in a work that's meant to uplift beauty and inspire hope detracts from its purpose.
This is the SJW argument but reversed, "I have hope for a positive beautiful progressive society free of racism and bigotry so I make it that everyone is darkskinned and has all their limbs chopped off". And I'll say the same thing I say to them to you, that's not reality. If an artist is literally incapable of depicting reality, they're just not a good artist imo. It's why everyone hates those hippy dippy gospel songs that are just "Wooo wooo the world is good and amaziiing wooo skipping in the flower fieeeelds" cause it's fake and gay. Just like how a drawing where everyone's white and 120 lbs is fake and gay, and a drawing where everyone's black and 300 lbs is fake and gay. Both pieces claim to uplift human beauty, but if no one looks like your inspiring hopeful message then it's not really inspiring hope, it's inspiring delusion. Whether that delusion be a world where everyone's Indian and omniflexiphilesexualquasigender or an aryan with an 8 pack.
Why is this thread getting derailed so much when the screencaps that started it were twitterities being pissy that a fat character lost weight, and obvious porno drawings where they are literally (almost) naked? Being that upset over a character losing weight and hyperfixating on their weight is in fact weird and fetishistic and has nothing to do with fat characters existing sometimes in general. Its like being able to tell who is a furry and whos not when you tell them to draw a dog, the specific way its drawn speaks for itself.
The fat judo lady already had anime same-face syndrome anyways, so at that point what does it matter that her weight too stops being realistic and varied? Clearly the author is able to draw fat people, its just apparently important for that character to go trough a weight loss arc or whatever.
Getting the thread back on topic, here's a random Tumblr find, an Italian they/them woman with a login-walled blog who has a nice mobile game-like artstyle, but wastes it on politisperging about the US of A.
Her complete banner, a diversity checklist that brings back the long-absent vitiligo sufferer in SJW art.
She seems to be the last bastion of vitiligo among SJW artists. She has a webcomic featuring a protagonist with vitiligo, and the obligatory extreme racial diversity.
My favorite character agrees with my politics! The caption is "Be punkrocker, be against ICE"
Yes actually. No one has to draw anything, but in my opinion if an artist does have a weird opposition to drawing a dirty public toilet or a crack house when it would make sense for the story then ya that does seem kinda lazy and lame. The more things you can draw and the more things you're willing to draw the better, a wide range is the sign of a good artist. Just look at some of this, look at the different shape language and vibes.
The story is also chosen by the artist. If the artist chooses to set their work in a dirty location, that is a conscious choice that reflects the message of their artwork. I don't create protagonists who are urban hoodrats and wiggers, and I have no interest in misery porn set in miserable places. No story of mine will take place in those locations. Art has never been about reflecting all dimensions of reality as it exactly is. I don't agree with the message that art has to cynically reflect the dirty and depressing sides of reality, so I won't expand my energy on learning how to create dirty and depressing art. Another artist who wants to tell a different message should focus on the skills relevant to his own message. Even if we assume that all artistic movements and messages are equally valuable, that's like saying that the sign of a good chef is knowing how to cook every dish from every cuisine in the world, instead of specializing in a few dishes he likes and he knows he's good at.
Also, this is about artists like myself and the ones in this thread who create art without financial compensation, where every aspect of their artwork is chosen by themself. Not commissioned professionals who have to draw anything they're paid to. Those can ask AI to fill in the blanks they're not sure about. Uggos are mad that nobody wants to draw or see uggos, and use "good artists should learn to draw anything" as low-effort manipulation to make mentally weak artists stop drawing what they like and start drawing uggos.
Why is this thread getting derailed so much when the screencaps that started it were twitterities being pissy that a fat character lost weight, and obvious porno drawings where they are literally (almost) naked? Being that upset over a character losing weight and hyperfixating on their weight is in fact weird and fetishistic and has nothing to do with fat characters existing sometimes in general. Its like being able to tell who is a furry and whos not when you tell them to draw a dog, the specific way its drawn speaks for itself.
It's not rlly derailed, we're still talking about SJWs and art in the SJW art thread. Disagreement =/= Derailment.
People were upset when April gained weight, Draculaura and Catty too. They weren't being "skinny" fetishists with that, nor is anyone being a fat fetishist for getting upset at-- Admittedly-- A downgrade in the originality of a character design. I don't remember the comment but someone said something like "It's like if Peter Griffin was made to be buff and he was just like that the whole show", it's not fetishistic, it's just... Weird? And sorta bad writing?
I do agree that you can generally tell by the way it's drawn, but I don't think "Scantily clad fat character" = Fat fetish. By that logic, this is a skinny fetish.
It's usually the situation in the picture, like Pyrocynical's art.
The story is also chosen by the artist. If the artist chooses to set their work in a dirty location, that is a conscious choice that reflects the message of their artwork. I don't create protagonists who are urban hoodrats and wiggers, and I have no interest in misery porn set in miserable places. No story of mine will take place in those locations. Art has never been about reflecting all dimensions of reality as it exactly is. I don't agree with the message that art has to cynically reflect the dirty and depressing sides of reality, so I won't expand my energy on learning how to create dirty and depressing art.
No one said it had to be dirty and depressing (Even though the dirty and depressing is inherent to the human experience.), imagine in your story, a character walks into a mom and pop shop owned by an elderly old man. How silly would it be if that elderly old man, owner of a restaurant, was a beefcake. He's probably portly, is the story ruined now? Is the entire thing tainted cause of one physical flaw he has, even though his role was going to be a positive one, providing yummy food to the protagonists? Eve in Dragon's Lair for example, is fat, and she hardly ruins the light tone of the game. Her whole thing is she mistakes Dirk for Adam, she's ditzy and sort of naive. I'm not going to stop playing Dragon's Lair and attempt to slice my wrists now cause of her. The game's still fun and lively.
Again, it's a similar problem with SJW art, isn't it? This world where everyone is diverse yet there's no real adversity, no misgendering, no trials or tribulation, just "Yasss queeeen", because they're scared if they deviate, their story will be dirty and depressing.
Even if we assume that all artistic movements and messages are equally valuable, that's like saying that the sign of a good chef is knowing how to cook every dish from every cuisine in the world, instead of specializing in a few dishes he likes and he knows he's good at.
The artist equivalent of that would more so be different genres. More so what's happening here is specializing in one dish, like a shittier Raising Caine's.
Also, this is about artists like myself and the ones in this thread who create art without financial compensation, where every aspect of their artwork is chosen by themself. Not commissioned professionals who have to draw anything they're paid to. Those can ask AI to fill in the blanks they're not sure about. Uggos are mad that nobody wants to draw or see uggos, and use "good artists should learn to draw anything" as low-effort manipulation to make mentally weak artists stop drawing what they like and start drawing uggos.
Again, like I said, you can draw whatever you want. Especially if you're not being paid/it's just a hobby and not a job. Just in my opinion, if you can only draw one thing, you're not good at said hobby. And that's ok, I mean, I'm not good at writing and I wouldn't even really call myself that good of an artist, but I enjoy doing both. You don't gotta be good, but if someone can only dribble a ball, I wouldn't call them good at basketball. If someone can only do a handstand, I wouldn't call them good at gymnastics, if someone only knows their two times table, I wouldn't call them smart. And if someone can only draw one thing, I wouldn't call them a good artist. Good artists should learn to draw anything, but no one has to be a good artist.
"
