George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

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I’m curious, I haven’t read any Dunk & Egg but I was already aware that Egg is Aegon, was the hypothetical unaware viewer meant to be surprised by the revelation of his identity in episode 3? I felt like it was played pretty obviously, like the joke is that Dunk isn’t picking up on the obvious signs that Egg isn’t some lowborn orphan, and I’m wondering if that was the intent or if people were meant to be surprised by the reveal.
I've seen reactors being actually surprised by the revelation. One I remember wondered if Dunk and Egg would be charged with the mission of finding the two lost princes. Others knew something was odd, others figured it out.

The show put a lot of clues. The most obvious is just moments before the revelation. I think the writers wanted the audience to figure it out before the revelation, it's just that we all got distracted by Dunk being arrested.

To be fair, Dunk is a peasant from Fleabottom so him not knowing what Egg looks like is understandable.
He, I think, realized he wasn't just some orphan and he was likely noble born. He just was never going to guess he was a targ prince. Dunk's not really that dumb, he's just an uneducated teen despite he's so big. He definitely can put two and two together.
 
To be fair they’ve also made it pretty evident that Dunk was never knighted and I’ve seen a lot of people in YouTube comments fervently arguing that he was.
People aren't asking about it because the show truly isn't showing much ambiguity as the book does. In book, we have Dunk's specific thoughts that anyone can interpret as him not being knighted. In the show, we can't see his thoughts and he can't explicitly say it out loud either.

The scene when Apple guy is knighted, people have interpreted as Arlan actually knighting him but forgetting the words, so it's still valid although Dunk is not sure if it is. I think they're going this way, rather than Arlan simply not doing it at all.

(I apologize for double post)
 
Torrhen Stark bent his knee and the Dornish just spammed guerrilla warfare until "The Conqueror" quit and consoled himself with a sister threesome.
Actually Rhaenys died in the first Dornish war when she did a reverse 9/11 into Helholt after Meraxes got shot through the eye. So he had to go home and fuck his frigid infertile (until she had Maegor lol) bitch wife Visenya. The war continued for a couple years until Aegon got one of those classic GRRM style™️ Plot-Letters and he called it off. It's not known what was in the letter but in-universe it's speculated that it was some crazy dornish shit like they had Rhaenys alive but tortured and they would only end her suffering if they made the lizards go away or sending all of Dorne's gold to buy a faceless man to kill Aegon's heir Aenys.
 
Actually Rhaenys died in the first Dornish war when she did a reverse 9/11 into Helholt after Meraxes got shot through the eye. So he had to go home and fuck his frigid infertile (until she had Maegor lol) bitch wife Visenya. The war continued for a couple years until Aegon got one of those classic GRRM style™️ Plot-Letters and he called it off. It's not known what was in the letter but in-universe it's speculated that it was some crazy dornish shit like they had Rhaenys alive but tortured and they would only end her suffering if they made the lizards go away or sending all of Dorne's gold to buy a faceless man to kill Aegon's heir Aenys.
That made zero fucking sense to me. If the Dornish could kill a dragon like that, then so could the Vale, the North, the Westerlands, the Reach, or even the fucking Ironborn. They should've all started rebelling the moment the news came of what happened in Dorne. Not to mention that it makes the dragons inconsistent.

This is why it's so hard to take the Targaryen conquest seriously, when something like Dorne can stop them. Your average Chinese, Muslim, Byzantine, or Medieval European general would be laughing at the Targs, before any of their armies burn Dorne down as a practical joke. I bet my left ass cheek that the First Crusade could probably do the job, let alone the Third.

If a dragon like Meraxes can get taken down by some pleb-tier Dornishmen with a ballista, something like Harrenhal would've made mincemeat of Aegon and Balerion when he came. Just imagine how many ballistae were on Harrenhal's towers. Balerion would've been a pincushion. Especially since he's BIGGER than Meraxes or Vhagar. So if anything, the Ironborn would have an easier target to hit.

GRRM is as consistent as D&D were. Like how in the final battle of Season 8 of Game of Thrones, Euron couldn't hit Drogon for shit, even though he easily sniped Rhaegal in the previous episode. People, even GRRM fans, bitched about that, but they give the Dorne/Rhaenys thing a pass, when it's the exact fucking same.
 
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They should've all started rebelling the moment the news came of what happened in Dorne.
Maybe not the Reach and the Riverlands. The Tyrells only had power because Aegon gave it to him and the Riverlands are doing better under Aegon. I do find it charming that for a series thats grittier and darker conquered people are so damn passive.

Now if it had come out that the Maesters killed the dragons as revenge for the conquest that would've been cool.
 
Now if it had come out that the Maesters killed the dragons as revenge for the conquest that would've been cool.
It's implied in a few chapters, especially ones involving Marwyn, that the Maesters poisoned the last dragons to erase the presence of magic in the world. And lots of characters mention that the existence of dragons tied directly into the effectiveness of magic. The pyromancers in King's Landing that make all of the wildfire even ask Tyrion if dragons have been sighted recently. So they at least feel some connection between dragons and magic.
 
Maybe not the Reach and the Riverlands. The Tyrells only had power because Aegon gave it to him and the Riverlands are doing better under Aegon. I do find it charming that for a series thats grittier and darker conquered people are so damn passive.
The Tyrells would, in such a circumstance, be facing Rebellions up the ass from houses whose male heirs can directly trace their line to Garth the Greenhand, as opposed to just the female line like House Tyrell.
 
I have a question to those watching this show.

I've read the first compilation of Dunk & Egg comics, which this season is based off of. I know Ser Duncan the Tall goes on to become a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and that Jaime Lannister gets a bit salty that a hedge knight has several pages in the White Book devoted to his exploits.

We know Martin hates heroes, and heroism, and thinks anyone with good principles and morals exists to be exploited, abused, and then murdered by the "smart" people of his setting.

Egg's a Targaryen, so he's going to turn homicidal, or paranoid, or die stupidly in honor of a principle like a certain fan favorite in this show will. Duncan will go from a hedge knight to a Targaryen bodyguard and toady, which means he'll be complicit in and/or responsible for whatever mad orders he's given by the psychotic bastard on the throne. He will cease to be Dunk the Lunk and become instead Dunk the Turd. The end of this is ultimately Rhaegar getting splattered on the Trident by Robert Baratheon, Jon Snow getting abandoned to bleed out for 15 years, etc.

So why is anyone giving this show the time of day, when Martin hasn't finished it, likely never will finish it, and will ruin or kill every good person present in the cast before it's over?
 
I have a question to those watching this show.

I've read the first compilation of Dunk & Egg comics, which this season is based off of. I know Ser Duncan the Tall goes on to become a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and that Jaime Lannister gets a bit salty that a hedge knight has several pages in the White Book devoted to his exploits.

We know Martin hates heroes, and heroism, and thinks anyone with good principles and morals exists to be exploited, abused, and then murdered by the "smart" people of his setting.

Egg's a Targaryen, so he's going to turn homicidal, or paranoid, or die stupidly in honor of a principle like a certain fan favorite in this show will. Duncan will go from a hedge knight to a Targaryen bodyguard and toady, which means he'll be complicit in and/or responsible for whatever mad orders he's given by the psychotic bastard on the throne. He will cease to be Dunk the Lunk and become instead Dunk the Turd. The end of this is ultimately Rhaegar getting splattered on the Trident by Robert Baratheon, Jon Snow getting abandoned to bleed out for 15 years, etc.

So why is anyone giving this show the time of day, when Martin hasn't finished it, likely never will finish it, and will ruin or kill every good person present in the cast before it's over?
You can look up the lore but I'm not going to spoil but Aegon doesn't go mad or go cruel.

The Targaryen's being destined to go mad (or even a 50/50 coin flip) is a complete misconception, the majority turn out fine.
 
So why is anyone giving this show the time of day, when Martin hasn't finished it, likely never will finish it, and will ruin or kill every good person present in the cast before it's over?
People are still into the potential for ASOIAF to be great. Either GRRM finishes the books with new endings. Or someone competent is allowed to reboot the entire franchise the moment GRRM dies from obesity. Someone is going inherit the series. They might even write the ending for Dunk and Egg.
You can look up the lore but I'm not going to spoil but Aegon doesn't go mad or go cruel.
He goes mad and is literally known as one of the worst rulers. The prophetess flat out tells him "you will be king and everyone will hate you".
 
He goes mad and is literally known as one of the worst rulers. The prophetess flat out tells him "you will be king and everyone will hate you".
No he doesn't. The nobles dislike him because he actually made an effort to fight for the smallfolk (99% of the population) and their rights (his kids also fuck him over by breaking their betrothals). Even still he's not in any way disliked the same way Maegor, Aegon IV, Aerys II or Joffrey are by both the nobles and smallfolk. During his reign, the realm was stable and he more or less defeated the Blackfyres as a threat.
Summerhall happened purely out of his desire to bring back the Targaryen dragons to use them in order to force the nobles to accept his reforms (or if you believe the theory he did so due to the threat of the Others, how is wanting to stop an apocalyptic, omnicidal threat mad or evil?).
 
I've read the first compilation of Dunk & Egg comics, which this season is based off of. I know Ser Duncan the Tall goes on to become a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and that Jaime Lannister gets a bit salty that a hedge knight has several pages in the White Book devoted to his exploits.
This ain't a book thing, rather a show thing and he's really not that salty because Dunk's a hedge knight, rather it's part of Jaime's development in which he's realized he didn't become the knight he wanted to be despite being around legendary knights like Barristan and Arthur Dayne. The show ignores that Jaime goes on his own quest to regain honor.

We know Martin hates heroes, and heroism, and thinks anyone with good principles and morals exists to be exploited, abused, and then murdered by the "smart" people of his setting.
He really doesn't. He's just to cynical for the fantasy setting. It's more like "good people don't win just because they're good". There is enough space in the books for heroes, it's just that there is no A for effort in a more realistic type of story.

Egg's a Targaryen, so he's going to turn homicidal, or paranoid, or die stupidly in honor of a principle like a certain fan favorite in this show will. Duncan will go from a hedge knight to a Targaryen bodyguard and toady, which means he'll be complicit in and/or responsible for whatever mad orders he's given by the psychotic bastard on the throne. He will cease to be Dunk the Lunk and become instead Dunk the Turd. The end of this is ultimately Rhaegar getting splattered on the Trident by Robert Baratheon, Jon Snow getting abandoned to bleed out for 15 years, etc.
This doesn't happen. Egg becomes a beloved ruler by the people. It's because of this that he realizes he needs power to face the nobles who didn't like his reforms that benefited commoners and he thought he needed to have dragons. We don't know exactly what happened during the tragedy of Summerhall, he might have indeed hatched a dragon and things went wrong. There was never any madness in his logic. After he died and Tywin became Hand, he removed all of his reforms to benefit nobles. Aegon tried to protect people like Dunk taught him, just in a different way.

So why is anyone giving this show the time of day, when Martin hasn't finished it, likely never will finish it, and will ruin or kill every good person present in the cast before it's over?
Because for what we know so far, the story of Dunk and Egg is truly chivalrous and they do fine until Summerhall.
 
He goes mad and is literally known as one of the worst rulers. The prophetess flat out tells him "you will be king and everyone will hate you".
The show seer doesn't say that. She says: "You shall be king, and die in a hot fire, and worms shall feed upon your ashes, and all who know you shall rejoice in your passing".

It never says they will rejoice that he's dead for being a bad king. We know he was a good King, only the nobles didn't like him. "Rejoice in your passing" could mean they're glad he's gone (as Tywin undid his reforms) or that the fire somehow fulfilled some prophecy, making his death a tragedy with a positive outcome, so it's thank to his actions that something good might happen and it couldn't have happened workout Summerhall.
 
Summerhall happened purely out of his desire to bring back the Targaryen dragons to use them in order to force the nobles to accept his reforms (or if you believe the theory he did so due to the threat of the Others, how is wanting to stop an apocalyptic, omnicidal threat mad or evil?).
It's not even a theory. The Targs have dreams of the Others. Aegon tries to summon dragons, has seven dragon eggs collected, hires sorcerers to perform some ritual, and it ends up with who knows how many dead and the world thinking he was completely insane. Rhaegar clearly has the same dreams and would visit the palace ruins in an attempt to understand them. Aeon walks into the fire like Dany, but instead of hatching dragons, just burns alive with a bunch of other people including Duncan.

We know that HBO's writers were told to try to tie HOTD together with the Targ dreams of the 'song of ice and fire'. They've done it in a clumsy and ham handed way. It's just another aspect of the Others invasion that GRRM didn't do a very good job developing and the other writers and showrunners are trying to piece together his notes and ideas. They also tried to make a Long Night prequel show on HBO to further tie in the prophecy.
It never says they will rejoice that he's dead for being a bad king.
It's literally exactly what it says. Being contrarian is idiotic. He becomes king, dies in ashes, and 'all' rejoice. The tragedy at Summer Hall is not that Mad Aegon dies it's that he takes innocent people with him in his insanity. There's no grand mystery or ambiguity. He's seen as a terrible ruler who was constantly at war and then burned a bunch of people to death in a failed ritual. We the audience know about the Others and prophecies but the average Westeros peasant thinks that Aegon was completely mad.
We know he was a good King,
We don't "know" anything because GRRM changes his mind on everything. Aegon could easily be a tyrant or maniac in later Dunk and Egg novels. GRRM hasn't written them yet. We just know that Aegon is cited as the half of the mad side of the Targ coin that the gods flip. And that in his mind burning alive a bunch of people in a ritual would awaken dragons when instead it just murders everyone pointlessly.
 
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Plenty of time for shits and big dicks though.
At least he admitted the mistake and didn't say some stupid shit like "Steely Pate just forgot", which is a big progress in the context of GoT fuckups. I hope this means he will try to do better for next season.
 
Maybe not the Reach and the Riverlands. The Tyrells only had power because Aegon gave it to him and the Riverlands are doing better under Aegon. I do find it charming that for a series thats grittier and darker conquered people are so damn passive.

Now if it had come out that the Maesters killed the dragons as revenge for the conquest that would've been cool.

The Tyrells would, in such a circumstance, be facing Rebellions up the ass from houses whose male heirs can directly trace their line to Garth the Greenhand, as opposed to just the female line like House Tyrell.
The Riverlands were infamously fractious and had some history of backstabbing whoever liberated them from the latest non-Riverlander oppressor, so I could see even them rebelling against vulnerable Targs (as they eventually ultimately did, to fatal results for the latter, in Robert's Rebellion). Harren the Black was only the third Iron King to rule the Riverlands, his grandpa Harwyn 'Hardhand' being the first; somehow despite the Ironborn having been well established as the sea-niggers of the setting by that point, many Riverlords sided with Hardhand when he fought to conquer their homes from the Storm King (who they at least mostly shared a religion with). The arch-traitor that time was Lothar Bracken, who tried to rebel & set himself up as an independent river king after helping the Hoares buckbreak the Durrandons & his own neighbor the Blackwoods, and was in turn duly curbstomped by Hardhand & starved to death in a cage.

(This is also Case #1,000,000 in the long history of Brackens obviously being the house Martin hates most in the setting & the Blackwoods being the real saintly Mary Sues he favors BTW, you can tell who he intends to be the good & bad guys in any given conflict involving the Riverlands based on who each of these houses side with.)

The last time the Riverlands were canonically unified & independent under one of their own was under the Teagues, who faced constant rebellions (because their founder was an upjumped sellsword who forcibly united the region with a huge mercenary army, an even worse background than the Tyrells) and were eventually destroyed when the Durrandons backed the Blackwoods in a rebellion against them despite both the Teagues & Durrandons being Seveners while the Blackwoods are famously Old Gods followers (something which had no precedent from the RL Middle Ages to speak of really, even the famous Polish-Lithuanian alliance to topple the Teutonic Order only got going after the Lithuanians stopped being pagans).

The last time the Riverlands were canonically unified, independent & stable under one of their own was in the time of House Justman, which is another case of Martin not allowing good to succeed (or at best, not for long before coming to a ridiculously brutal & senseless end) in his work no matter how little sense that might make. The Justmans' founder Benedict was a Bracken-Blackwood bastard, but such a cool giganigga that he miraculously managed to get the two to set aside their millennia-old grudge & become his first supporters on the long road to unify the Riverlands for the first time since the Andals destroyed House Mudd, which took him 30 years. By reputation the Justmans tempered their Ned or Stannis-like sense of justice (hence their name) with Arryn-esque honor & the compassion of the Gardeners to rule successfully, they're noted as having not only kept the Brackens/Blackwoods at peace but also expanded their kingdom as far as the Neck in the north & the Blackwater's mouth (where KL would later be built).

So naturally, such a benevolent house had to be exterminated by the Ironborn of all people (who first somehow buckbroke the Justmans to the point of forcing them to pay tribute despite the Riverlands being a juggernaut compared to the Iron Isles, then treacherously butchered the last Justman king's underage sons and killed him when he tried to avenge them) because nobody can be allowed to have nice things in the grimdarkness of Westeros, at least not for long. The Justmans ruled for 300 years, which might sound a lot until you recall that in this setting, the fucking Freys are still considered a young & upjumped house at 'only' 600 years old. Or IOW, this house of Riverlander Neds/Jon Snows basically only got to exist for a blink of an eye in Westerosi history.
 
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