George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

  • ⚙️ Performance issue identified and being addressed.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
draggs said:
There is farming on the Iron islands, but it's thralls who do it. The islands couldn't support a population or an army or a fleet large enough to mean anything to anybody if they literally got everything from raiding
Click to expand...
It's why they kept trying to conquer the other kingdoms (and sometimes succeeded) until Aegon showed up and told them sharing is caring. Especially when you are sharing your tithe with him
 
Lobster Cult High Priest said:
Lyonel definitely feels related to Renly Baratheon
Click to expand...
That's kinda what worries me a bit about the character, that someone said "ah, he's ancestor of the gay dude, so let's make him campy!" We need to see some of Stannis and Robert too. We're about to see how much of a real fighter he is, which should be similar to Robert in his prime. They should have showed a bit more of his honorable side when he supported Dunk because it's the same motivation of Stannis to help the Watch.

GoT team is simply bad at portraying homosexuality in general. I think Griff is also gay, right? I just forgot cuz I think I've forgotten Dance, but he's an ok character and I'm glad he wasn't show sucking dicks here and there otherwise we wouldn't have caught he likes men.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
That's kinda what worries me a bit about the character, that someone said "ah, he's ancestor of the gay dude, so let's make him campy!" We need to see some of Stannis and Robert too. We're about to see how much of a real fighter he is, which should be similar to Robert in his prime. They should have showed a bit more of his honorable side when he supported Dunk because it's the same motivation of Stannis to help the Watch.

GoT team is simply bad at portraying homosexuality in general. I think Griff is also gay, right? I just forgot cuz I think I've forgotten Dance, but he's an ok character and I'm glad he wasn't show sucking dicks here and there otherwise we wouldn't have caught he likes men.
Click to expand...
Being somewhat fair, Show Renly was much less a campy gay and much more a simpering faggot. Lots of whining about his brothers, not a lot of sass. Freaked out at the sight of blood. It's oddly dated in that way, I don't think HBO would get away for a second adapting Renly the way they did in $CURRENT_YEAR.

And Griff is only ever implied to be gay in the books (I think GRRM did eventually confirm it, but it might just be a really strong fan theory). He definitely is super-committed to Rhaegar/his son and his obsession with him could be construed as romantic, for sure, but it's vague. We'll never see it obviously, but how he reacts to Aegon being fAegon if that ever comes to light would be really interesting to read.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
We need to see some of Stannis and Robert too.
Click to expand...
I see a lot of young Robert in Lyonel, tbh. His jolly nature, party animal tendencies, love of alcohol, and competitiveness are pretty apparent across all episodes. He's one of Lady Ashford's original 5 champions which means he's a pretty fearsome fighter, too.

I think Stannis, on the other hand, gets most of his nature from peepaw Maekar.
 
Last edited:
draggs said:
There is farming on the Iron islands, but it's thralls who do it. The islands couldn't support a population or an army or a fleet large enough to mean anything to anybody if they literally got everything from raiding
Click to expand...
It's made all the weirder because the soil of the Iron Islands is specifically said to be largely infertile (sparse, thin, rocky, etc.), and that the thralls who do have to work with must do so without the help of plow animals for the most part, forcing the Ironborn to largely feed themselves by fishing. Agriculture or lack thereof aside, it also begs the question of where the Ironborn get the wood with which to build ships, since the above doesn't at all sound like the sort of soil which could sustain the growth of any significant forests either.

Needing to raid the mainland for wood is one thing, it would justify the history of Ironborn hostilities with the North (which is explicitly said to have tons of dense forests) for example. But then you'd think 1) the Ironborn would be a lot more focused on trying to conquer & hold huge parts of the North than the Riverlands or really any other kingdom, 2) they'd be pretty vulnerable to land-based counterattacks while clearcutting those forests on the 'green lands', and 3) they really should not be able to spare the time & manpower to not only take on, but repeatedly defeat the Westerlands/Reach/Riverlands and even conquer the last of those outright. (Before the last couple Hoares' total conquest of the Riverlands, the Ironborn also destroyed the second-to-last Kingdom of the Trident by somehow wiping out House Justman in the latter's failed war of vengeance, which sounds rather like Ireland pwning Northern France if Ireland were also a shitty near-desert of an island rather than the Emerald Isle.)
Lobster Cult High Priest said:
Lyonel definitely feels related to Renly Baratheon
Click to expand...

Tasty Tatty said:
That's kinda what worries me a bit about the character, that someone said "ah, he's ancestor of the gay dude, so let's make him campy!" We need to see some of Stannis and Robert too. We're about to see how much of a real fighter he is, which should be similar to Robert in his prime. They should have showed a bit more of his honorable side when he supported Dunk because it's the same motivation of Stannis to help the Watch.

GoT team is simply bad at portraying homosexuality in general. I think Griff is also gay, right? I just forgot cuz I think I've forgotten Dance, but he's an ok character and I'm glad he wasn't show sucking dicks here and there otherwise we wouldn't have caught he likes men.
Click to expand...

Absolutego said:
Being somewhat fair, Show Renly was much less a campy gay and much more a simpering faggot. Lots of whining about his brothers, not a lot of sass. Freaked out at the sight of blood. It's oddly dated in that way, I don't think HBO would get away for a second adapting Renly the way they did in $CURRENT_YEAR.

And Griff is only ever implied to be gay in the books (I think GRRM did eventually confirm it, but it might just be a really strong fan theory). He definitely is super-committed to Rhaegar/his son and his obsession with him could be construed as romantic, for sure, but it's vague. We'll never see it obviously, but how he reacts to Aegon being fAegon if that ever comes to light would be really interesting to read.
Click to expand...
Funny enough, Book Renly was described as being leaner than Bobby B but otherwise almost as tall & strong as him and Stannis, and certainly handsomer than the latter - basically, not only the bear to Loras' twink, but a hunky gigachad type who you shouldn't be able to detect on gaydars half as easily as his show equivalent, not some effeminate weakling right out of a '90s movie or TV show set. I think that if he were to shave his beard, the actor who plays Lyonel in AKOTSK would've made a better, more book-accurate Renly than the guy who actually took the role in GoT proper.

Connington was indeed confirmed to be gay by Gurm back in 2011 or so. He's not a gay stereotype either though, to the extreme that there's nothing in the narrative itself which overly suggests he's gay (not even his being fanatically devoted to Rhaegar's memory, it's not like anyone thinks Wyman Manderly or the other Northern lords are gay for Ned after all), in fact IIRC the vast majority of his gay characters don't act like modern uncloseted flaming fags. Which is one of the few times he actually nails 'medieval realism', even IRL medieval monarchs & nobles who were widely understood to be gay couldn't act all faggoty in public, Edward II of England (assassinated by having a hot poker shoved up his ass so that he 'might die where he sinned', but also a physically strong & imposing man who had four kids with his wife and didn't go around dressed in drag or whatever, contrary to his portrayal in Braveheart) being a good example. Closest to that that I can remember were Laenor Velaryon (Rhaenyra's gay first husband), the hermaphrodite (not a tranny apparently, but actually intersex) slave 'Sweets' that Tyrion encounters, and Loreon 'Queen Lorea' Lannister (a troon from the Lannisters' kingly days).
 
Tasty Tatty said:
That's kinda what worries me a bit about the character, that someone said "ah, he's ancestor of the gay dude, so let's make him campy!" We need to see some of Stannis and Robert too. We're about to see how much of a real fighter he is, which should be similar to Robert in his prime.
Click to expand...
Have they actually made Lyonel a fag or is he just eccentric? I wondered why there was so much of him on social media when he's not that present in the novella. Waiting to watch when its all out, casting looks fantastic though.
 
Chuckwagon said:
It's made all the weirder because the soil of the Iron Islands is specifically said to be largely infertile (sparse, thin, rocky, etc.), and that the thralls who do have to work with must do so without the help of plow animals for the most part, forcing the Ironborn to largely feed themselves by fishing. Agriculture or lack thereof aside, it also begs the question of where the Ironborn get the wood with which to build ships, since the above doesn't at all sound like the sort of soil which could sustain the growth of any significant forests either.
Click to expand...
Technically boreal forests (think Canada or Siberia in the sub-tundra belt) can be bad for farming just because the permafrost is so close to the surface and the growing season is so short. Except this is Westeros, so growing seasons last decades, so... I dont fucking know. The ecology of the Iron Isles would have to be northier than the actual North for this to be a thing.
 
Heinrich Maneuver said:
Have they actually made Lyonel a fag or is he just eccentric? I wondered why there was so much of him on social media when he's not that present in the novella. Waiting to watch when its all out, casting looks fantastic though.
Click to expand...
He's just campy. And he seems to like Dunk and simply is a physical person. Honestly, I've met guys who are very straight but like to make gay jokes all the time because they think they're funny (some are).

Twitter and Tumblr think that when two characters look at each other, they're in love and want to have passionate loud sex. So, Lyonel being playful wih Dunk means he wants to fuck him, ofc.
 
Heinrich Maneuver said:
Have they actually made Lyonel a fag or is he just eccentric? I wondered why there was so much of him on social media when he's not that present in the novella. Waiting to watch when its all out, casting looks fantastic though.
Click to expand...
Raymun Fossoway is explicitly /ourguy though.

Which is why they will probably have Bloodraven's Thought Police arrest and execute him in later seasons when he is Hand to Aerys I "The Nerd King".
 
Last edited:
I’m curious, I haven’t read any Dunk & Egg but I was already aware that Egg is Aegon, was the hypothetical unaware viewer meant to be surprised by the revelation of his identity in episode 3? I felt like it was played pretty obviously, like the joke is that Dunk isn’t picking up on the obvious signs that Egg isn’t some lowborn orphan, and I’m wondering if that was the intent or if people were meant to be surprised by the reveal.
 
bango skank said:
I’m curious, I haven’t read any Dunk & Egg but I was already aware that Egg is Aegon, was the hypothetical unaware viewer meant to be surprised by the revelation of his identity in episode 3? I felt like it was played pretty obviously, like the joke is that Dunk isn’t picking up on the obvious signs that Egg isn’t some lowborn orphan, and I’m wondering if that was the intent or if people were meant to be surprised by the reveal.
Click to expand...
It's a common trope in books to have someone disguise or hide themselves as another person. It always works because the viewer can't see them. GRRM uses this trope constantly. Probably fifty characters in ASOIAF have done it. Mance Rayder goes to a feast in Winterfell. Sarella is Alleras. Ser Barristan becomes Arstad Whitebeard. GRRM would even give fake names to POV chapters to disguise the character at first.

This doesn't work on television. So they made it obvious that Egg is Aegon and that Dunk is a moron. It's probably a better change.
 
TheHarbinger said:
It's a common trope in books to have someone disguise or hide themselves as another person. It always works because the viewer can't see them. GRRM uses this trope constantly. Probably fifty characters in ASOIAF have done it. Mance Rayder goes to a feast in Winterfell. Sarella is Alleras. Ser Barristan becomes Arstad Whitebeard. GRRM would even give fake names to POV chapters to disguise the character at first.

This doesn't work on television. So they made it obvious that Egg is Aegon and that Dunk is a moron. It's probably a better change.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Dunk is a peasant from Fleabottom so him not knowing what Egg looks like is understandable.
 
bango skank said:
I’m curious, I haven’t read any Dunk & Egg but I was already aware that Egg is Aegon, was the hypothetical unaware viewer meant to be surprised by the revelation of his identity in episode 3? I felt like it was played pretty obviously, like the joke is that Dunk isn’t picking up on the obvious signs that Egg isn’t some lowborn orphan, and I’m wondering if that was the intent or if people were meant to be surprised by the reveal.
Click to expand...
They made it about as apparent as they could’ve without directly stating it. I think your read is correct — it was meant to be so obvious that Dunk looks like a dummy for not realizing something was up sooner.

I really love this show. I could do without the gross out scenes, but overlooking that, this is the most pumped I’ve been about a show in years. They really nailed the casting, and it* feels good rooting for a main character who is pure and honorable, especially after so many years of antiheroes and smarmy cunt characters in everything.
 
Last edited:
timewave0 said:
They made it about as apparent as they could’ve without directly stating it. I think your read is correct — it was meant to be so obvious that Dunk looks like a dummy for not realizing something was up sooner.
Click to expand...
To be fair they’ve also made it pretty evident that Dunk was never knighted and I’ve seen a lot of people in YouTube comments fervently arguing that he was.
 
PyrrhicRustle said:
To be fair they’ve also made it pretty evident that Dunk was never knighted and I’ve seen a lot of people in YouTube comments fervently arguing that he was.
Click to expand...
The ambiguity of him being a knight lies at the heart of his story. He shouldn't have been knighted, because it shows that you can be a good and even great person who came from nothing. But it also means that anyone he knighted is not a knight. Which I believe goes from Gerold Hightower to Barristan Selmy to Jaime Lannister
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom