Sonic The Hedgehog Games

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Which game do you play the most in Sonic Mega Collection?

  • Sonic 1

    Votes: 28 4.5%
  • Sonic 2

    Votes: 112 18.1%
  • Sonic 3 and Knuckles

    Votes: 245 39.6%
  • Sonic 3D Blast

    Votes: 23 3.7%
  • Sonic Spinball

    Votes: 24 3.9%
  • Dr. Robotnik's Meanbean Machine

    Votes: 89 14.4%
  • they're all good in my opinion

    Votes: 98 15.8%

  • Total voters
    619
I’m listening to a Dreamcast music mix, and I have to get this off my chest: the Knuckles songs in SA2 are bad and I’m tired of pretending they’re not. Every song is the same, just a basic hip hop instrumental with some high black guy going “yo this is knuckles im here at [insert level name here] and i gotta find the emeroods cuz its my destiny of my ancestors and sheeeeeit”. Fuck all of them, even Pumpkin Hill.
 
I’m listening to a Dreamcast music mix, and I have to get this off my chest: the Knuckles songs in SA2 are bad and I’m tired of pretending they’re not.
"My name's Knuckles. I'm... so ghetto." - DSP, of all people, summing up every Knuckles theme

ETA: Actually, is there any rap song in Sonic that isn't retarded? "He's got the dope sounds pumping in his stereo (-eo!)" has to be the most embarrassing line from any Sonic game. And, yes, I'm including "Obliterating everyone who's not your friend" in that statement.
 
ETA: Actually, is there any rap song in Sonic that isn't retarded? "He's got the dope sounds pumping in his stereo (-eo!)" has to be the most embarrassing line from any Sonic game. And, yes, I'm including "Obliterating everyone who's not your friend" in that statement.
There’s Sonic Rush’s soundtrack, but that’s kinda cheating since it focuses on sampling.
 
To be fair with the Knuckles Tracks in SA2 they all had be written in a single day, https://youtu.be/s5lQrXYKFVA?t=107 so the repetition with their arrangements was to be expected, as you don't really have the time to really "understand" character beyond the surface level with such a narrow time frame. They're a guilty pleasure to me regardless. "The White of Sky" A.K.A Skeleton Dome, by Runblebee (Japanese) from Secret Rings I think is one of the smoothest when it comes to "non cheesy rap" in Sonic games.


Most of the lyrical stage tracks in SR are generally just "Sonic is reacting/adapting to he's in," with the some the exceptions being Levitated Ruins, (no vocals) Pirate Storm is more about the atmosphere of the environment, and Night Palace is describing Sonic's situation on brink of death due Erazor's curse. Skeleton Dome is the only level track that directly mentions the implied relationship between Shahra and Erazor, subtly interwoven with the atmosphere being described through Sonic's perspective, or at least that's how I choose to interpret it.
 
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Oh yeah, that video where Arin whines about how useless the air spin is, then plays Sonic 3 on Game Grumps a decade later and whines about how unfair the game is every time he takes contact damage from an enemy that could have easily been countered with the air spin.
Arin is dumb, this is nothing new.

It's why I don't watch any Pokemon-related GameGrumps videos. Between that and Sonic, his opinions (and whatever "knowledge" he has) are shit.
 
Arin is dumb, this is nothing new.

It's why I don't watch any Pokemon-related GameGrumps videos. Between that and Sonic, his opinions (and whatever "knowledge" he has) are shit.
I stopped watching them altogether some time in the late 2010s when Arin kept doing voices that he knew annoyed people out of spite in the Thousand Year Door playthrough. And he outright said at some point that he only plays Sonic on the channel to shit on it, and quit Mania a few zones in because he couldn’t find anything to complain about.
 
Arin is dumb, this is nothing new.

It's why I don't watch any Pokemon-related GameGrumps videos. Between that and Sonic, his opinions (and whatever "knowledge" he has) are shit.
And he outright said at some point that he only plays Sonic on the channel to shit on it, and quit Mania a few zones in because he couldn’t find anything to complain about.
Is this dude still complaining about Sonic all these years later? I swear he built his entire personality around shitting on a game that was released 20 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still brings it up like it's a recent game.
 
Is this dude still complaining about Sonic all these years later? I swear he built his entire personality around shitting on a game that was released 20 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still brings it up like it's a recent game.
No idea, but if you’re looking for a 40 year old man who still can’t get over his childhood playground arguments, Vinny recently played Sonic 06 and gawked at how bad the kiss is (did you know Sonic 06 is a bad game? just a reminder in case you forgot).
 
Sonic not being allowed to show any growth, Shadow being relegated to fan service with absolutely nothing to do)
*Autistic rambling* -There is Good Autism and Bad Autism. I'd like to think I have the former. Since they never call me wrong.

Maybe I'll do more in-depth looks at the Sonic franchise if people like that.
Throw me some ideas.

For Shadow:​

My only big issues with Shadow's current writing are being solved presently in the game/movie series.
  • Him being a bad Vegeta analog,
  • Team Dark are not friends,
  • "Ow the edge" being taken seriously,
  • pretending he has no history,
  • etc...
----

My Main Issue with Sonic's Characterization​

Well, my main issue with Sonic wasn't the growth; it was the characterization that he had during the META era (Colors - Forces).
  • Lack of seriousness
  • Constant downplay of stakes
  • 4 wall breaking, Jim from the Office style, *Looks at audience* "Are we really doing this? Is this for real?" humor.
  • Rapid tonal whiplash from a child's concept of serious to the most infantile baby story *you should clap now* story moments.
  • Sonic's emotional range is stunted to not ever show extreme negative emotions.
    • This was ONLY a good thing in the case of the Comics as in Archie he was a crybaby cucked bitch constantly.
      • Funny enough, Sonic's personality was closest to Archie in Sonic 06, which explains the overlap between the fans. (In before ppl start calling me an IDW fag. I just rock with the games.)
  • etc...

My opinion of Sonic's Character peaks since the 2000's were:​

  • SA2 (SA1 to an extent)
  • Sonic Battle
  • Sonic Rush series
  • Sonic Riders
  • Sonic Storybook games
  • Sonic Unleashed (But not Tails, that is where his character went to die and never return. Thank you Tails' Wii U gamepad for making him not invent anything else).

Why did this happen?​

This was due to SEGA being convinced as well from Fake Sonic fans and 2010's online discorse (YT videos, reviews, tweets, memes, etc...) that Sonic can only like IRONICALLY.

Who was responsible?​

This led them to hire people like:
  • Egoraptor (a guy known for hating Sonic and promoting the idea that, "Sonic was never good") to be a brand ambassador and collaborate with them on the games and marketing.
  • Ken Pontac: The Happy Tree Friends guy: as a writer, who was proud to state that he NEVER played Sonic or liked him.
    • (Similar to how 343 devs were hired because they Hated Halo).
  • The Sonic Twitter manager who also played into Sonic is only to be liked IRONICALLY. (Thank God he's gone).

Additional Comparison​


I made this post on another site a long while ago, it gets passed around a lot in Sonic circles but, it is still Evergreen when looking at Sonic during the META Era.
1578890096229.png
 
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Oh yeah, that video where Arin whines about how useless the air spin is, then plays Sonic 3 on Game Grumps a decade later and whines about how unfair the game is every time he takes contact damage from an enemy that could have easily been countered with the air spin.
Arin is dumb, this is nothing new.
And he outright said at some point that he only plays Sonic on the channel to shit on it, and quit Mania a few zones in because he couldn’t find anything to complain about.
Is this dude still complaining about Sonic all these years later? I swear he built his entire personality around shitting on a game that was released 20 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still brings it up like it's a recent game.

Reminder that their OG Sonic 06 was their highest viewed series.
So much so that they never finished it and constantly REBOOTED that playthrough to the 'nth degree to continue milking the dead cow.

Additionally, throwing out Arin's influence on Sonic's perception during the Meta Era (What I consider the true dark age). Is haphazard. Reminder he was an OFFICIAL Sonic brand ambassador while constantly shitting on the series and its fans.

Here is something I bet most of you forgot:
Join Arin from Game Grumps, Jirard The Completionist, and Jun Senoue in a special musical sensation featuring everybody's* favorite cat!

Arin from Game Grumps and Jirard The Completionist helped make Big's theme in that AWFUL Sonic Team Racing Game.

I wonder what is going on with those two now...?
 
Arin is legitimately terrible at video games. I remember watching an ancient GG with him and Jon playing some platformer and not only was Jon the only one making any progress in the game, he was also dominating the conversation as well. Arin was as useful to the stream as tits on a bull so I turned that shit off and never looked back.
 
Maybe I'll do more in-depth looks at the Sonic franchise if people like that.
Throw me some ideas.
Yeah, your posts are pretty good Anon, even if they are pretty... aggressive.

If I could ask, could you write why you think 06 is absolute dogcrap and your hatred towards history reviosinists like you said here.

I personally didn't choose 06 because I am seriously tired of 06 revisionist history and 06 apologetics people use online nowadays.

It damages the brand, characters, lore, etc... intensely. Especially because of those who continue to try and say, that it was totally good all along.
Maybe, I will write all the reasons why I feel this way and the damage that this has already done to the brand later.

If not (because seems like a very long post lol), could you at least rant about Mephiles the Dark? I feel that nowadays people are starting to unironically see him as a good character/villain and want to see him comeback, mainly because of the 06 Fandub + Shadow Gens ("Memphis Tennesse xDDDD").
 
Maybe I'll do more in-depth looks at the Sonic franchise if people like that.
Throw me some ideas.

I'd be down for it as well.

My suggestions for characters would be:
- The Chaotix crew
- Fang
- Cream
- Sage (and her supposed 'impact' on Eggman.)

As for games, my suggestions are:
- Sonic Secret Rings & Black Knight. (They have good art direction and some decent drama in scenes, but the gameplay is all over the place imo.)
- Tails Adventures (One of the few character-specific spinoffs worth playing. It isn't anything grand but it's a decent enough game on it's own.)
- Sonic Rush Adventure (Decent enough game but the ship parts grinding can be kind of cumbersome)

My own inputs regarding grievances with certain characters including the ones I listed for suggestions:

Amy: While Flynn's treatment of Amy's characterization is annoying, I also take issue with how she was written in Sonic X and how it directly bled into a good couple of games during the 2000's that featured her. X changed her demeanor to being very easily agitated and resorting to physical violence when either her friends seriously question her judgement or when Sonic typically hesitates in response to her advances. (Heroes, Advance 3, Battle, Rush, Free Riders)

I guess they did it so Cream's whole 'kind and pure-hearted'-personality schtick stands out more and adjusted Amy as such to differentiate it, but this didn't do Amy any real favors in terms of actually making her more likable even if it did add to some nice comedic moments here and there in X like when she kicked that Elmyra Duff-expy across the train.

442.gif

Chaotix: I get that they're mostly meant as slight comedic relief characters in the series, but I swear that past Heroes they're hardly allowed to ever be actually cool characters and get mandated to suffer misfortune after misfortune. X likewise didn't do Vector's characterization in particular any real favors as he frequently blows common sense and advice out of the window in favor of wanting to stubbornly simp for Vanilla and make things worse, and yes, not a fan of how the simping for a rabbit mom who barely appears in the games after what was it, Rush? Bled into other official media as well.

Fang/Nack: It's a odd choice why Fang's seemingly locked into this dumb 'classic continuity-only' situation as from my perspective his wealth-obsessions and wild card-alignment would make him one of the more interesting recurring antagonists besides Eggman and Metal Sonic or a unlikely ally depending on the situation, but I guess with Rouge around to mostly fulfill that quota (even though she's hardly a real antagonist in the majority of her appearances) they figured he was kind of redundant.

Cream: My only real pet peeve with Cream is how I always see some sources claim she's 'shy and nervous' about confrontations when I hardly see anything of that in the games she appears in, unless someone can enlighten me as to why, or is this a bogus bullshit thing?

Sage: I get that Sage's supposed to be a character mostly meant for Frontiers but her continued existence in other media gives very worrying impressions regarding Eggman's characterization. Having Eggman actually genuinely care for one of his creations and wanting to 'soften him' clashes heavily with what makes Eggman an entertaining egomaniac in that he only cares for his creations as a means to an end, as demonstrated with Gamma's story in SA1.
For as much as Eggman praises his competence in his assignments he still abandons Gamma to either kill or distract Sonic in order to buy time for himself to get away.

Anyway sorry for the rambling, would be curious to hear your input if you'd be so generous.
 
My only real pet peeve with Cream is how I always see some sources claim she's 'shy and nervous' about confrontations when I hardly see anything of that in the games she appears in, unless someone can enlighten me as to why, or is this a bogus bullshit thing?
To be fair, she's around 8 and a bit of an pacifist. But it only becomes apparent in Sonic Battle, and that's about it.

And between Gamma and Sage, one's a part of a series of heavily customized Badniks who were kind of intended to be disposable. As with Sage, at least she's truly sentient? Or at least seems like it (I haven't played Frontiers)
 
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If not (because seems like a very long post lol),
I will do it but, not right now look forward to it. You'll see some points I'll make later about that in this post, (look for them).


could you at least rant about Mephiles the Dark? I feel that nowadays people are starting to unironically see him as a good character/villain and want to see him comeback, mainly because of the 06 Fandub + Shadow Gens ("Memphis Tennesse xDDDD").
Sure, but I have to ask if you were around the Sonic community during 06. Mephiles was always seen as a mid-positive character. With wasted potential (not fan-cope """"hidden potential""" like Shitver)

Why was Mephiles popular/liked from the outset?​

1769289076186.png

Dark Mirror of a Dark Mirror (Character Trope)​

Similar to Shadow and other characters a duplicate/clone/twin but evil, is a common trope in writing that usually works out to a popular character depending on who it is that they are attached to. Even if they themselves have no personality.

Now, further enhance this by mirroring something that was already a popular dark Mirror for the protagonist.
  • Dark Link
  • Vergil
  • Akuma,
  • Wario
  • Riku
  • SubZero vs Noob
  • The best example is:
    • Spider-Man (Sonic /Base protag hero) -->
      • Venom (Shadow / Dark Mirror anti-hero) -->
        • Carnage (Mephiles / Dark Mirror Dark Mirror Totally Evil)
  • etc...

Mephiles came out swinging with Feats​

  • Killed Sonic (Massive Feat)
  • Allowed Shadow to Aura farm constantly (Best thing your villian can do).
    • Taking off the inhibitor rings is a loved moment for a reason.
  • Built tension for Team Dark and allowed them to grow:
    • Rouge professing her devotion to Shadow, "If the world turns against you. I'll turn against the world."
    • Omega being able to power-scale to Shadow in story because of Mephiles' manipulation.
    • Shadow fucking up the mission in the past to save Rouge.
  • Caused the Cast to team up to fight him multiple times and even Eggman once he fused with Solarius.
  • Has Chaos Control.
  • Good Voice Work. (This is a feat since we are coming off of Heroes Tails and STH Charmy VA's)
  • Succeeds in his plan until a massive Asspull happens.
  • Is a Hedgehog (kinda) which does a lot of heavy lifting for fans even when the character is dogshit (Silver).

What is the best thing for this character?​


Mephiles the Dark is a fine -> Ok level character that DOES actually have potential as well.

BUT

As a SHADOW / TEAM DARK villain.


Every good point that Mephiles has, is tied to his connection with Shadow and his team. If he were to come back, but as a Shadow analog/villian it would be the best thing for the character.

  • Gives Shadow a reflection if he never turned to the light.
    • Allowing his stories to continue off of his peak hero characterization and his bonds with his FRIENDS.
    • This also allows him to not be seen as just a Vegeta analog and reintroduces his softer / heroic side we saw in (SA2, Battle, 06, Shadow Gens, etc...) that modern fans have not had much exposure to.
  • Gives Rouge someone that she has to outsmart/out-finesse rather than overpower (gives her more opportunity to show why she was the LEADER of the team in Heroes. Something I wish they continued).
  • Omega gets to Aura farm and powerscale while using his weapons on a non-robot.
  • Allows for more mature / Teen storytelling that fits with Shadow / Team Dark.
  • Allows for further kino moments like pictured below.
1769289317248.png

Why not Sonic?​

  • Sonic never interacted with him beyond dying to him.
  • He also has enough Dark Mirrors; you'll get diminishing returns.
    • Metal Sonic
    • Shadow
    • Surge (if you count comics)
  • Sonic's personality and his stories don't play as well with Mephile's style of stories. It will feel OOC for both.

Why not Shitver?​

  • Silver was made worse and looked retarded, believing this abomination with no mouth, and who is clearly evil.
  • Additionally, Silver really has no connection to Mephiles outside of using him to travel through time. (Basically a plot vehicle for him).
  • Silver, being a Trunk's ripoff, will feel even more so as he'd be copying of Super Trunks (worse verison) with his own Goku Black analog.
    • Even worse if you believe that Silver is Shadow's decendent something that was hinted at many times with most evidence in Black Knight being the son of Lancelot (Shadow).
  • Silver would be stealing another Villian that works better with another character while adding nothing and having even worse chemistry.
    • Example Eggman Nega being stolen from Blaze and given to Shitver (something he does a lot to Blaze) in the Rivals series.
      • This was worse for both characters as it made things more confusing and Nega look more retarded.

My Reboot ideas for him​

Why he needs a reboot.​

Yes he should be Rebooted. Untie him from the mess that is 06.

First: Separate him from Solarius. That is the weakest part of him, and if Solarius was completely removed from 06 it would have fixed many problems with the story.

(Ala Sonic and Silver having nothing to do really with the main villian of the game. And both of their stories essientially being filler as Shadow's is the only one that doesn't have a plot that meanders or is unfocused.)

Quick story idea (expand on it if you want. This is a rough off-the-cuff pitch):​

Mephiles' is directly tied to project Shadow / Eggman (Frontiers) / Sonic Battle​


Proposed Origin​

  • Eggman is attempting to experiment/continue his grandfather's work with creating life, (might be inspired to do this to possibly create a body for Sage as an unknown birthday gift for her.)
    • Possibly using Geralds research, he'd create a body similar to an android Maria based off of Gerald's reasearch being heavily based on her. (Since Eggman still pefers robots)
  • Eggman tries to create his own Project Shadow but unlike Gerald he creates a weapon without a soul so he would easily control him
    • (Sonic Battle confirms Gmeral and Shadow have souls intentionally)
    • This answers why Mephiles hates Shadow for having one and why he is pure evil as well.
  • Eggman may combine research across Geralds' creations all combining to his powerset:
    • Shadow (What he learned about him while studying him in Heroes. Explains his presence at the hidden base)
    • Artificial Chaos
    • Black Doom's race
    • What he knows about the Ancients from Frontiers
    • Metal Sonic's adaptability.
    • etc...
  • Culmination of the plot is essientially a Robotnik Family reunion Team up against Mephiles. Containing him.
    • With Eggman swearing off this and sticking to Robots instead (less of a headache in his words).
      • This also builds off of Sage's characterization from Frontiers allowing her to interact more with people that know more details of the Robotnik family. (Something many many fans want to see).
      • As well as seeing what other characters think about her continuing her integration into the series:
        • G.U.N Commander
        • Omega
        • Rouge
        • Shadow
        • Metal Sonic, Orbot, Cubot, etc...


I do have a general plot outline but I'm not going into that as this post is long enough.
 
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