r/fuckcars / Not Just Bikes / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

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Reminder that this is what Democrats think their cities are like versus Republican cities:
Now that's what I call propaganda!

Reminds me of a commie propaganda portraying a cult-y utopia. The reality of "woke"-run cities is like Portland, San Francisco, NYC... Do SJWs ever take a break from trying to spread demoralizing, projecting, and demonizing lies? It's like they're always proselytizing.

I don't know why side 1 has no spiritual nourishment whatsoever.
That's because the SJWs worship "the community" and "marginalized groups" instead of God. And their religion is "social justice", while they may claim to be beyond religion.
 
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Statistically, you're more likely to die via a gunshot wound given to you by yourself (whether suicide or accidental discharge 'caused by being a 'tard that can't properly handle a firearm) than by a homicidal stranger shooting you at random.
Correct, but this is down to FREQUENCY OF INTERACTION. This is why you're more likely to get into an accident within a couple miles of your house, because you drive those streets more frequently than, say, Sunset Boulevard or the Alaska Highway. It's not that your quiet residential neighbourhood has somehow the most DANGEORUS ROAD ON EARTH.
 
Correct, but this is down to FREQUENCY OF INTERACTION. This is why you're more likely to get into an accident within a couple miles of your house, because you drive those streets more frequently than, say, Sunset Boulevard or the Alaska Highway. It's not that your quiet residential neighbourhood has somehow the most DANGEORUS ROAD ON EARTH.
Reminds me of that joke going around Junior High back when "Blonde Jokes" were popular.


"What did the blonde lady do when she heard that most car accidents occur within 5 miles of home?"

"She moved"



Building on that? I've often mused about how there's a tiny sliver of pavement opposite my driveway along the shoulder that, by the numbers? Is one of the least traveled-by-me pieces of roadway in the world despite literally every trip I've taken in the last 40 years going right by it. Because I'm either driving into or out of the street at that point, and rarely drive straight past home.... MIND BLOWN!!!!!
 
The EU bans the sale of US chicken because we use a very light chlorine wash during the chicken processing process but despite these fears the EU allows its bagged salad to be subject to the same chlorine washing process. They know that if we are able to sell our chicken in the EU it would drive their farmers out of business so they invent the fear of CHLORINATED CHICKEN to rally opposition .
Reminds me of that “protected designation of origin” crap that seemingly exists simply to ensure that only certain places can call products by a particular name, because sparkling white wine can only be considered “the good stuff” if it is made in the Champagne region of France, only the Cognac region can produce the really good brandy, and only blue agave liquor brewed near the city of Tequila is worthy of the name (funny how the French seem to be the ones with the most aggressive enforcement of those rules). Maybe there is a point to that, but it definitely feels more like it serves more to hurt people producing the product outside of the designated region when they can't refer to it by its common name.
 
Correct, but this is down to FREQUENCY OF INTERACTION. This is why you're more likely to get into an accident within a couple miles of your house, because you drive those streets more frequently than, say, Sunset Boulevard or the Alaska Highway. It's not that your quiet residential neighbourhood has somehow the most DANGEORUS ROAD ON EARTH.
Risk factors are going to change depending on where you are. An average American probably will die in a car accident, but you're more likely to be shot if you were a gang member or do late-night deliveries to sketchy areas. Old people's biggest threat is stairs, an Indian's biggest threat is trains. Should those be "regulated" just because some groups have a bigger problem with them?
 
The funny thing about street grids is if you look at something like New York or New Orleans they're built on a grid system. For Europeans crowing about how awful the grid system is their ancestors would've built their cities on a grid system if they were offered the chance.
Edinburgh is a great example of everyone clamouring to get spots in the New Town portion of the city in the 1700s that was designed perfectly via a grid layout compared to the diseased infested old city (the modern day tourist trap portion of the city)
The EU bans the sale of US chicken because we use a very light chlorine wash during the chicken processing process but despite these fears the EU allows its bagged salad to be subject to the same chlorine washing process. They know that if we are able to sell our chicken in the EU it would drive their farmers out of business so they invent the fear of CHLORINATED CHICKEN to rally opposition .
Protecting your nation's food supply is a national security issue so I don't mind if the EU has regulations to protect European farmers.
 
Protecting your nation's food supply is a national security issue so I don't mind if the EU has regulations to protect European farmers.
Except that most of the EU's food regulations target luxury goods like wine and aged meats/cheeses, not staples.

They're the same "country" that tried to ban farming because of a conspiracy theory about farmers poisoning the soil with nitrogen. They don't care at all about food security or farmers.
 
Risk factors are going to change depending on where you are. An average American probably will die in a car accident, but you're more likely to be shot if you were a gang member or do late-night deliveries to sketchy areas. Old people's biggest threat is stairs, an Indian's biggest threat is trains. Should those be "regulated" just because some groups have a bigger problem with them?
I never said anything about regulation, just that this 'more likely to X than Y' is a misrepresentation of statistics.

"You're more likely to die in a car accident if you own a car" is something urbanists say because they think it means you're better off riding the bus. Nah, that would make you more likely to die in a bus accident.
 
Except that most of the EU's food regulations target luxury goods like wine and aged meats/cheeses, not staples.

They're the same "country" that tried to ban farming because of a conspiracy theory about farmers poisoning the soil with nitrogen. They don't care at all about food security or farmers.
That's more about cattle farming, the nitrogen runoff into the soil was a convenient excuse to grab land and reduce meat production so everyone will be pushed towards vegetarianism.
 
That's more about cattle farming, the nitrogen runoff into the soil was a convenient excuse to grab land and reduce meat production so everyone will be pushed towards vegetarianism.
Isn't it odd that a lot of that anti farmer rhetoric has died down after those fake meat companies failed? Makes you think...
 
The EU bans the sale of US chicken because we use a very light chlorine wash during the chicken processing process but despite these fears the EU allows its bagged salad to be subject to the same chlorine washing process. They know that if we are able to sell our chicken in the EU it would drive their farmers out of business so they invent the fear of CHLORINATED CHICKEN to rally opposition .
This is actually where the eponymous "chicken tax" on light trucks comes from. It was imposed as part of a mostly forgotten trade war between the US and a few European states in response to cheap imported US chicken flooding the European market in the early 60s. This was a few years before Japanese vehicle exports really began taking off and the US auto market's main foreign threat was still German imports, such as the Volkswagen Type 2 and Beetle.

Urbanist-flavored individuals love to blame this tax for the lack of small pickup trucks in North America, but it's not really that simple. For one, "light truck" would entail foreign-built fullsize pickups as well. If there was a foreign analogue to fullsize American trucks, they would be subject to it all the same. The closest is probably Australian market Land Cruisers, or maybe some oddball Euro market pickup like the Renault Alaskan, but these bigger trucks are excluded all the same. "Light Truck" is a broad category.

Second, the chicken tax has been hilariously easy to circumvent and there's many stories of manufacturers making very simple modifications to their vehicles to get around it. The most well-known is probably the 1978-1986 Subaru BRAT:

1761715929071.png


As a foreign-built Japanese truck, it one hundred percent would have been subject to the chicken tax. Their move to get around it? Stick two shitty plastic seats in the bed. It's a "passenger vehicle" now! Somehow this dumbass tactic worked on US customs officials and the truck was never subject to the 25% import tariff. The BRAT never sold very well stateside, however, and was discontinued in NA after the 1986 model year. The seats went away right after in markets it was still sold, to the surprise of nobody.

Another example is the Toyota Hilux and the Chevrolet LUV, which was actually a rebadged Isuzu Faster. (1970s Japanese car names are so great, man.)

1761716939545.png
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Both were exported to the US, and both used the same strategy of simply shipping the trucks overseas without a bed. Why? Because if it didn't have a bed, it wasn't a "light truck" and was instead a legally distinct "chassis cab" configuration vehicle. Once the trucks made it to the US, Toyota and GM simply slapped beds on them, and there you go! Chicken tax successfully circumvented. Some actually were sold in chassis cab configuration to various upfitters, so they had some legitimate ground to stand on for importing them in this way. Toyota even set up an entire dedicated plant in Long Beach and LITERALLY all they did there was make truck beds:

1761717166709.png


The plant still operates today and is Toyota's oldest US manufacturing facility. Now, this loophole actually did get closed in 1980, so after that Toyota ended up simply charging the tax, which wasn't a big deal anyways because a new Toyota pickup in 1981 was still only about $6000 even with the tax, about $25k in current year dollars. Chevy, on the other hand, responded by simply discontinuing the LUV because they were working on a domestically-built small pickup that would later become the S-10. The LUV was mostly a stopgap measure by GM to have some competition against Japanese import pickups, as well as capitalize off fuel economy concerns in the wake of the 1973 gas crisis. Simply manufacturing the trucks in North America is the most obvious solution to the chicken tax problem, and one that quite a few foreign manufacturers (Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, Stellantis kinda) ended up employing.

Even so, these import shenanigans still go on almost to this day. You probably see these around fairly regularly:

1761718209727.png
1761718361863.png


From 2009 to 2023, Ford imported the Euro-market Transit Connect into North America as a smaller alternative to the larger Econoline and later Transit cargo vans. How did they do this? Well, they just imported every single one as a passenger van. Though genuine passenger versions did exist, Ford would install seats and rear windows into every single example that crossed the Atlantic from assembly plants in Europe, including cargo-spec work vans. Since there were seats in the back, and passenger windows, it was automatically considered a "passenger vehicle." Once again, not legally a "light truck", no tariff. Once they arrived stateside, the seats came out, the windows were replaced with steel panels, and they were converted back to a normal cargo configuration.

This is probably the most brazen example of a company exploiting this loophole, and Ford did indeed get dinged for this. It mean, it somehow still took until 2013 for any regulator to even call them out on this, and after an incredibly drawn-out court process, Ford was finally ordered to pay $350 million in "cut that shit out" fines in 2024. This was one year after the model was discontinued, meaning the court battle survived longer than the US-market Transit Connect did.

Ford actually planned to move manufacturing for the third generation Transit Connect to Mexico so that it would fall under NAFTA and they could ignore the chicken tax entirely. However, the model's sales figures were never that impressive, and compact cargo van sales as a whole were on the decline. The entire "compact cargo van" segment in North America ended up being more of an experiment in seeing how well these smaller Euro-style vans sold in the New World and has been pretty much entirely relegated to a decadal trend of the 2010s, not any kind of paradigm shift.

And this finally brings me to my third point: People kinda just don't want these fucking things.

Whenever some company decides to bring these smaller work vehicles to market in North America, they never ever EVER sell as well as their full-size counterparts. The Ford Maverick is a great example of this. For YEARS, people were clamoring for Ford to bring back a small pickup option, that the new Ranger was too big, that the American market NEEDED a compact pickup option. Well, they did, in 2021. Ford hyped the shit out of the Maverick and there was loads of buzz around it. Urbanists were praising it as The Truck America Needs Right Now. But guess what?

1761722569655.png


The Maverick sold about ~140,000 units combined between Canada and the US last year, its third full year of production. Which is, well, mediocre for any vehicle. Not exactly a failure, but nothing to write home about. But these numbers get so much worse when you compare them to the F-series:

1761722858338.png


Despite having the option of both the Maverick and the Ranger, sales of F-series trucks absolutely blow both of them out of the goddamn water. Just about ~900,000 trucks in both countries. Ford sold more F-series pickups in Canada alone than Mavericks in the entire US last year. F-series sales have increased by about ~150k units SINCE the introduction of the Maverick. If anything, it's the Ranger that's losing sales to the Maverick:

1761723125640.png


Going back to the cargo van example, what numbers did the Ford Transit Connect do?

1761724049107.png


It did shitty. Less than half a million sold over 15 years of being on the market is pretty bad. How'd the full-size Transit do, once Ford brought it over stateside?

1761724424382.png


Would you look at that, it did fucking gangbusters. It managed to outsell its smaller and cheaper counterpart's entire 15-year run in less than five. This is the point: It's not that smaller work vehicles have simply never been an option in the North American market, they just invariably end up not selling well enough to justify their own existence. There really wasn't a good reason to buy the smaller Transit Connect besides for some certain niche uses, like mail delivery or certain trades where you need tools but not a ton of material. But for the vast majority of the working class, your needs are almost guaranteed to be better suited by the larger, more capable Transit.

It wasn't just the Transit Connect, either. The Nissan NV200, the Chevrolet City Express, the Ram Promaster City, and the Mercedes-Benz Metris all populated the compact van segment just a few short years ago, and that entire vehicle segment has disappeared while ALL of their respective fullsize counterparts live on (except the Nissan NV). And this same dichotomy plays out in the entire North American market. People simply don't want smaller trucks, even when they're an option. There's almost nothing a small truck can do that a big truck can't do better.


So, what's the takeaway from this unreasonably long post about nothing? The point is that all these urbanist cucks whining about people buying big trucks because there's "no other option" are wrong and I'm tired of hearing about it. Manufacturers keep trying small trucks. They've been trying it for decades. Small trucks and vans have been on the North American market from practically every manufacturer at one point or another, and they almost invariably fail once people stop buying them. Small trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma got bigger because that's just what people want. There's not some grandiose conspiracy of automakers trying to force John Q. Public behind the wheel of a Ram 2500. If anything, automakers keep trying to get people to buy smaller versions of their offerings. But time and time again, they just don't, and they don't meet the sales figures required to justify continued production.

The "chicken tax" is an easy thing to tack the blame onto, but considering the fact that basically every meaningful foreign manufacturer has assembly plants under NAFTA jurisdiction, that's hardly a relevant factor anymore. Literally nothing is stopping any one of them (Toyota, Honda, Kia, Mercedes, Nissan, Volkswagen, Subaru, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, etc) from producing compact pickup trucks for the US market. The only reason they don't do that is because people simply do not buy the damn things.
 
"Light Truck" is a broad category.
Anything that doesn't weigh in at the point you need a CDL technically is a "light truck" , even though most people think it exclusively applies to a Ranger or Dakota pickup, with an F-350 being "heavy" in their minds.

Well, it's heavier, but, it isn't until you've got like a small box truck or dump truck that you've really entered what they're talking about when they say "heavy".

"Light truck" is more a usage distinction that it's primarily owned by a person for non-commercial private passenger use. "Heavy" denotes "purely commercial/industrial use".

There's almost nothing a small truck can do that a big truck can't do better.

Or a car.

One of those 80's Asian-import small trucks would be ideal for me because I'm single and don't have anyone to cart around regularly, so it would make sense to turn the backseat into more cargo area, and at that point? Why not go unlimited and just end the cabin there? I wouldn't cart stuff around that much, but when I did, it would be easy and the smaller engine wouldn't be much of an issue because that'd be all I'd ever need just to move me around.

But, I'm not the "average" buyer.

Most people WANT the extra room for more passengers, or more cargo, and thus gravitate to full size trucks or midsize sedans.

Leaving people like me in the "yeah, it exists, but, with only 35,000 sales a year? It's not worth trying to capture" part of the market.
 
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I never said anything about regulation, just that this 'more likely to X than Y' is a misrepresentation of statistics.

"You're more likely to die in a car accident if you own a car" is something urbanists say because they think it means you're better off riding the bus. Nah, that would make you more likely to die in a bus accident.
I know you didn't say anything about regulation but that's exactly how they think. High gun deaths = regulation needed in gun ownership. High auto accident death = discouragement of driving needed, and so on.

So, what's the takeaway from this unreasonably long post about nothing? The point is that all these urbanist cucks whining about people buying big trucks because there's "no other option" are wrong and I'm tired of hearing about it. Manufacturers keep trying small trucks. They've been trying it for decades. Small trucks and vans have been on the North American market from practically every manufacturer at one point or another, and they almost invariably fail once people stop buying them. Small trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma got bigger because that's just what people want. There's not some grandiose conspiracy of automakers trying to force John Q. Public behind the wheel of a Ram 2500. If anything, automakers keep trying to get people to buy smaller versions of their offerings. But time and time again, they just don't, and they don't meet the sales figures required to justify continued production.
The "muh options" in all these cases has always been horseshit. On the subject of trucks alone, if Kei trucks and other cuckmobiles are the superior option, then what is the harm in bringing over large American-style trucks? Even though these vehicles are more expensive and less popular in places like Japan and Europe, the urbanists hate them. On a larger issue, that's also the deal with mass transit in cities. You don't want "more options" because no urbanist has ever talked about how these European cities that rely mostly on mass transit should have a full freeway system.
 
I know you didn't say anything about regulation but that's exactly how they think. High gun deaths = regulation needed in gun ownership. High auto accident death = discouragement of driving needed, and so on.
High transit crime = WTF are you talking about? Transit is perfectly safe.
 
The EU bans the sale of US chicken because we use a very light chlorine wash during the chicken processing process but despite these fears the EU allows its bagged salad to be subject to the same chlorine washing process. They know that if we are able to sell our chicken in the EU it would drive their farmers out of business so they invent the fear of CHLORINATED CHICKEN to rally opposition .
No, it's because, for various reasons, American chicken packing plants don't maintain sufficient hygiene standards to satisfy EU regulations, and would rather to resort to washing chicken LIKE NIGGERS than making even marginal improvements.
 
So, what's the takeaway from this unreasonably long post about nothing? The point is that all these urbanist cucks whining about people buying big trucks because there's "no other option" are wrong and I'm tired of hearing about it. Manufacturers keep trying small trucks. They've been trying it for decades. Small trucks and vans have been on the North American market from practically every manufacturer at one point or another, and they almost invariably fail once people stop buying them. Small trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma got bigger because that's just what people want. There's not some grandiose conspiracy of automakers trying to force John Q. Public behind the wheel of a Ram 2500. If anything, automakers keep trying to get people to buy smaller versions of their offerings. But time and time again, they just don't, and they don't meet the sales figures required to justify continued production.
Listen I'm totally with you about urbanist faggots and the poor sales figures on small trucks but it needs to be said: NA automakers don't try very hard with small vehicles. They have a financial incentive not to. The material difference between a small car and a big SUV isn't equal to the price difference and they both require the same amount of man-hours to assemble. This is part of the reason the NA makers discontinued sedans almost simultaneously (the other part is that the only interesting sedan any of them had made for years was the Charger Hellcat). The Germans and Japanese still make sedans because they have large overseas markets where big vehicles don't sell as well, but they also have not problem selling in NA so it's not a lack of demand.
 
So, what's the takeaway from this unreasonably long post about nothing? The point is that all these urbanist cucks whining about people buying big trucks because there's "no other option" are wrong and I'm tired of hearing about it. Manufacturers keep trying small trucks. They've been trying it for decades. Small trucks and vans have been on the North American market from practically every manufacturer at one point or another, and they almost invariably fail once people stop buying them. Small trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma got bigger because that's just what people want. There's not some grandiose conspiracy of automakers trying to force John Q. Public behind the wheel of a Ram 2500. If anything, automakers keep trying to get people to buy smaller versions of their offerings. But time and time again, they just don't, and they don't meet the sales figures required to justify continued production.
I think another consideration is that in Europe the #1 work vehicle I saw was this thing:
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I was informed that Europeans prefer this van thing because gypsies and turks will steal whatever the fuck is in the bed of your truck, so you have to put it on something with locking doors. There's cope about the streets being too physically narrow for full-sized trucks, which is kind of true, but the big thing is most euros work in urban areas and the urban market loves to nick anything not locked up.

In the US you want this big boy.
1761758029901.png

Why?
1. you can put stuff in it (theoretically, most people don't actually work or do anything, but it's nice to have when your kids move to college finally)
2. big (important because if a black person or jeet DUIs into your car at an intersection he dies and not you)
3. comfy

point three is what I will labor. if you are a busy kraut in munich and you have a business meeting in berlin, you will take a train. DB offers such luxury.

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wow yes i am a very busy kraut i am on my way to business meeting in BERLIN (important capital of my country, very unified) and i am so busy I need a train office so I can work on my laptop because I am so busy.

you're not going to sit in this fucking thing for 6 hours on the autobahn. you can't even work on your laptop while doing that.
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but the thing is in America we don't work or pretend to work (see point 1), but what we do love to do is go see Grandma. Grandma lives all the way in North Carolina and that's like 8 hours away. So you're going to want something comfy. trains aren't an option (they're for commies, faggots [see: commies], and hobos). so check this out.

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uhm i'm thinking we're so back

✅ christmas tree, six suitcases, and everybody's presents in the truck bed
✅ kids strapped in with the tablets
✅ wife on her phone comfortable not complaining
✅ commander dad in the driver's seat ready to roll over any jeets and blacks DUIing through the intersection
✅ stinky smelly urbanite (faggot commie) air filtered through gold standard hepa filter a/c rated at 0.3 microns good enough to filter out every jeet germ and virus

yeah it's road trip time dw grandma we're on our way
 
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Listen I'm totally with you about urbanist faggots and the poor sales figures on small trucks but it needs to be said: NA automakers don't try very hard with small vehicles. They have a financial incentive not to. The material difference between a small car and a big SUV isn't equal to the price difference and they both require the same amount of man-hours to assemble. This is part of the reason the NA makers discontinued sedans almost simultaneously (the other part is that the only interesting sedan any of them had made for years was the Charger Hellcat). The Germans and Japanese still make sedans because they have large overseas markets where big vehicles don't sell as well, but they also have not problem selling in NA so it's not a lack of demand.
A large part of that is also because CAFE regulations penalize MPG standards on sedans more than they do on trucks and SUVs. Even the Japanese, Korean and German automakers that still sell them had to step up hybridization in order to keep their sedans viable.
 
No, it's because, for various reasons, American chicken packing plants don't maintain sufficient hygiene standards to satisfy EU regulations, and would rather to resort to washing chicken LIKE NIGGERS than making even marginal improvements.
You must be as dumb as they are to equate that a calibrated chlorine rinse is somehow the same thing as rubbing the bird with Dawn soap. Besides, according to this NPR article (archive) less than 5% of US poultry producers still do it. Besides, the point is Europeans still do it with prebagged salad, so if the concern was "muh superior health rules" how do you answer that?
 
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