OSRS / Old School Runescape - Medieval Cookie Clicker

[Extremist Frank]

Oh I see.
Well, I never really hated the idea of new skills myself, the only problem is that there's really no world in which you can introduce them in a satisfying way at this point, the world map is extremely cluttered as it is, and nobody wants to run off to the middle of fucking nowhere to do the new skill (fucking even Hunter suffers from this problem). Sailing is good in that regard because it can be added in a way that actually feels somewhat intuitive. But the RS3 skills are dreadful because all of them are just shit like "now enemies drop an extra bonus item to do skill" or "now there are gay rifts where you do shamanistic dances to collect gay little wisps" or whatever else the fuck.
Meanwhile Sailing gives an endless opportunity to add a new skill without making it feel disjointed.

I hope so! My concern is Jagex is on an absolute hot streak with OSRS and pumping so much new content into it - in the last 18 months we've gotten all of Varlamore, Colosseum/Yama/Delve, a host of mid game bosses (Royal Titans, Scurrius, Moons, etc.), WGS, and more and then we've got Sailing next month, Raids 4 likely next year, etc. - and I don't want them to turn to adding new skills on a regular basis. I'm pro-new (non-skill) content though, I think the new islands coming with sailing will naturally open up the door to the eastern lands and future expansions around that.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I hope so! My concern is Jagex is on an absolute hot streak with OSRS and pumping so much new content into it - in the last 18 months we've gotten all of Varlamore, Colosseum/Yama/Delve, a host of mid game bosses (Royal Titans, Scurrius, Moons, etc.), WGS, and more and then we've got Sailing next month, Raids 4 likely next year, etc. - and I don't want them to turn to adding new skills on a regular basis. I'm pro-new (non-skill) content though, I think the new islands coming with sailing will naturally open up the door to the eastern lands and future expansions around that.

Honestly, I am looking forward to getting to visit the Eastern Lands infinitely more than I ever cared to explore Fantasy South America. Varlamore is just something I never really cared for that much.

Unrelated, but one of the worst parts of Runescape being an MMO is that the changes that the player has on the world itself don't seem to make sense.
Like, give us a way to make Burgh de Rott look slightly less fucking absolutely awful to live in or something, even if the changes are applied on the client side, only a single fucking house in that entire village has a ROOF. Or after completing Shilo Village, reskin the Zombies outside the village with statistically identical non-hostile guards or something.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Honestly, I am looking forward to getting to visit the Eastern Lands infinitely more than I ever cared to explore Fantasy South America. Varlamore is just something I never really cared for that much.

Varlamore just highlights how inconsistent the worldbuilding and lore has become now. They wanted to represent Aztecs, but also make them kind of Roman, gave their region a French sounding name and made them matriarchal, completely flying in the face of those actual real historic cultures they  stole achieved inspiration from. Reading Middle American nomenclature with all those soft 'X's and H sounds right alongside other words that are very obviously Latin/Roman inspired instantly shatters any illusion of realism or suspension of disbelief.
Those two vastly different languages and naming conventions don't belong together, it doesn't make sense and only calls attention to how different they are. They would have been better off making up complete gibberish that sounds nothing like any real languages, at least then you could defend it as being pure fantasy instead of mashing up 2 IRL cultures together that were literally a whole world apart.

It's lazy. They tried virtue signalling for the Aztecs, culturally appropriating for the Romans and adding in a dash of feminism all at once, creating a fucking mess of IRL history and nomenclature that I'm reluctant to even call "fantasy" unless you're using that term derogatively.

Unrelated, but one of the worst parts of Runescape being an MMO is that the changes that the player has on the world itself don't seem to make sense.
Like, give us a way to make Burgh de Rott look slightly less fucking absolutely awful to live in or something, even if the changes are applied on the client side, only a single fucking house in that entire village has a ROOF. Or after completing Shilo Village, reskin the Zombies outside the village with statistically identical non-hostile guards or something.

Restoring Mort'ton through your serum 208 breakthrough also, or West Ardougne through exposing the "plague".

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

It's lazy. They tried virtue signalling for the Aztecs, culturally appropriating for the Romans and adding in a dash of feminism all at once, creating a fucking mess of IRL history and nomenclature that I'm reluctant to even call "fantasy" unless you're using that term derogatively.

Zeah has always been something of a disaster when it comes to the worldbuilding that goes on there, but Varlamore feels especially retarded even for Zeah. Don't forget that they still have a bootleg Venice to add.
Varlamore could've been great if they actually followed the RL inspiration and had it be a combination of Spanish and South American stuff, but they went for Italy instead. The Roman appropriation and confused design philosophy just makes me want to stay the fuck away from ever going to Varlamore, just about nothing there appeals to me.
Oh boy! Please give me a dogshit herblore minigame! What's that? A whole TEN percent chance to save secondaries??? Wowzer!
They don't make skilling outfits like the Rogue's Outfit anymore.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Varlamore could've been great if they actually followed the RL inspiration and had it be a combination of Spanish and South American stuff, but they went for Italy instead. The Roman appropriation and confused design philosophy just makes me want to stay the fuck away from ever going to Varlamore, just about nothing there appeals to me.

Why even base it on anything IRL? Is creativity no longer a priority for their writing teams? The closest we had beforehand was the Fremmeniks being obviously North Germanics/Vikings, but they still adhered to and were well written in to RUNESCAPE lore, having their own niche views on the already established in-game gods, runecrafting (absolutely haram), they were even racist toward you if they didn't know you yet. That was good IRL inspiration. Varlamore is not.

Oh boy! Please give me a dogshit herblore minigame! What's that? A whole TEN percent chance to save secondaries??? Wowzer!
They don't make skilling outfits like the Rogue's Outfit anymore.

If you want to punish yourself, play the frog quest "Ribbiting Tail of a Labour Dispute" or something. It's like if a 6th grader who believes themselves to be a comedy genius wrote it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Why even base it on anything IRL? Is creativity no longer a priority for their writing teams? The closest we had beforehand was the Fremmeniks being obviously North Germanics/Vikings, but they still adhered to and were well written in to RUNESCAPE lore, having their own niche views on the already established in-game gods, runecrafting (absolutely haram), they were even racist toward you if they didn't know you yet. That was good IRL inspiration. Varlamore is not.



If you want to punish yourself, play the frog quest "Ribbiting Tail of a Labour Dispute" or something. It's like if a 6th grader who believes themselves to be a comedy genius wrote it.

I don't even want to think about the Fremmeniks after RS3 just immediately wasted V, the coolest god that we knew pretty much the least about by fucking immediately murdering him.
Fuck the sixth age, all my niggas hate the sixth age.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

I don't even want to think about the Fremmeniks after RS3 just immediately wasted V, the coolest god that we knew pretty much the least about by fucking immediately murdering him.
Fuck the sixth age, all my niggas hate the sixth age.

Sixth age novice quests be like: "What's that boy? Saradomin fell down the well?"

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Sixth age novice quests be like: "What's that boy? Saradomin fell down the well?"

Bro they fucking replaced Dark Knights Fortress with "Go and fetch this item for SARADOMIN HIMSELF" and it fucking pisses me off every time.

Not as bad as the trannyfort quest, though. Even putting aside the tranny faggot shit they injected into it.
Here's your Novice Quest, bro:

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Bro they fucking replaced Dark Knights Fortress with "Go and fetch this item for SARADOMIN HIMSELF" and it fucking pisses me off every time.

Not as bad as the trannyfort quest, though. Even putting aside the tranny faggot shit they injected into it.
Here's your Novice Quest, bro:View attachment 8078826

It continues the world building mess, because at that point the player could simultaneous have that fort, the islands of Miscellania and Etcetria, a whole bunch of political power throughout Geilinor for all the quests they've done for various monarchs and power players, and is basically a minor deity with the World Guardian powers they got from Guthix, and everyone just treats you like some wandering hapless retard to treat like an errand boy.

Also, regarding the trannyfort quest, how cool could it be if they took it seriously? You're building a fort to be the first line of defense against the wilderness and Moritaynia, this should be big stakes, and instead you have to listen to some pooner have an identity crisis. They also revealed that The Raptor is the queen of Varrock instead of a dragonkin like it was originally hinted. While its lamer, it at least gave the queen some kind of personality beyond stone cold bitch, and she seemed to be having as much "fun" with that quest as I was, so I felt a kinship.

I don't even want to think about the Fremmeniks after RS3 just immediately wasted V, the coolest god that we knew pretty much the least about by fucking immediately murdering him.

The Fremmenik pantheon, such as it is, seems like the red headed step child of Geilinor's cosmology. Their gods are V, who shows up and dies with a single quest, The Kendal, which is a dude dressed as a bear, and is like, level 30, and a couple random spirits and ghosts, who all seem massively unimpressive. At least the Desert pantheon seem to have their own shit going on, even if I can't remember any of it, except that the Devourer is bad and somehow related to Slayer.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The Fremmenik pantheon, such as it is, seems like the red headed step child of Geilinor's cosmology. Their gods are V, who shows up and dies with a single quest, The Kendal, which is a dude dressed as a bear, and is like, level 30, and a couple random spirits and ghosts, who all seem massively unimpressive. At least the Desert pantheon seem to have their own shit going on, even if I can't remember any of it, except that the Devourer is bad and somehow related to Slayer.

To be fair the only actual divinity in the Fremmenik Pantheon is V because he found Jas' Ultimate Baseball, but he chose not to actually be worshipped as a god, so he did very little with his powers beyond bringing the power of runecraft to the people of Gielinor. Unlike the Desert gods who made shitty little demigods, V was more than happy to be a hero rather than be worshipped as a God.
Basically, V is pretty much just a more successful Guthix who didn't get worshipped as a god.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

To be fair the only actual divinity in the Fremmenik Pantheon is V because he found Jas' Ultimate Baseball, but he chose not to actually be worshipped as a god, so he did very little with his powers beyond bringing the power of runecraft to the people of Gielinor. Unlike the Desert gods who made shitty little demigods, V was more than happy to be a hero rather than be worshipped as a God.
Basically, V is pretty much just a more successful Guthix who didn't get worshipped as a god.

I'll be honest, I think the longer RS goes on, the more of a mess its cosmology becomes.

Originally you have Sara, Zammy, and Guthix as a triumvirate representing abstract concepts, and over time its devolved to the point where it seems like the only fundamental difference between the gods and literally everything else is combat level and from a lore perspective, what happens when they die.

Also, one thing that is incredibly bizarre about Runescape's religious environment, is that outside of regional deities like the desert pantheon, I think only one character expresses a devotion to more than one god (its some random woman in the Necro content), unlike real life polytheistic cultures, most groups in Geilinor seem to just pick a single patron deity and then just ignore or go to war with the others.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

unlike real life polytheistic cultures

to be fair, unlike real life polytheistic cultures, the world of runescape had a literal war of gods where all of the gods were basically directly opposed to one another and fought to kill each other.
Kinda hard to follow multiple gods when there are literal historical records of them trying to murder each other, or records of one of the gods saying DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY FUCKIN LAWN.
Like, you can feasibly only really worship a very limited combo together. Like maybe Bandos and Zamorak, or Seren and Guthix.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

to be fair, unlike real life polytheistic cultures, the world of runescape had a literal war of gods where all of the gods were basically directly opposed to one another and fought to kill each other.
Kinda hard to follow multiple gods when there are literal historical records of them trying to murder each other, or records of one of the gods saying DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY FUCKIN LAWN.
Like, you can feasibly only really worship a very limited combo together. Like maybe Bandos and Zamorak, or Seren and Guthix.

Everyone thought I was being an edgy atheist by aligning with the godless. No it's because the only decent one got murdered and the rest are assholes.

 

[Sneedfully and Peacefully]

Everyone thought I was being an edgy atheist by aligning with the godless. No it's because the only decent one got murdered and the rest are assholes.

As they're presented in RS3, Guthix was the decent one because he wanted the best for humanity and everything else he brought over without actually being worshiped but people do as they do. V is a close second because he found the macguffin ball but didn't let it get to his head, he helped spread runecrafting to the mainland (there's some fuckery with the new Dragonwilds game where Guthix found runecrafting there but the conditions are different) and overall was just the "bro" of humanity, and then left to travel worlds to explore without getting in the way.

Armadyl I can also accept as he was later. He participated in the wars but he got the rawest deal because Zamorak blowing up the wilderness vaporized a bunch of his birds and his husband, and among other races used Zaros experimented on some to make his Nihil/Zarytes. He may have been just as zealous but after all that shit they wrote him as sympathetic and just wanting to do good for any Aviansie left and leave. After Seren became a BPD nutcase who sided with Jas/the elders on ending the world he offered to look after her elves, and then when you remake the edicts to stop Zamorak but as a byproduct the other gods have to get booted he's completely chill about it. He's a faggot hawk but he's my fag hawk.

Unrelated thoughts about skills and rs3 cuz the other thread is slow:

Spoiler: Sperging

I'm way more into RS3 because they went big on the lore and when I got back into the game that was the one I started with to see what changed. Someone mentioned Divination and how it crowds the map more and I agree, although the back half of the wisp tiers are in more remote places. I guess to get you into the skill a bunch are around the f2p area. I don't think any rs3 fan will say div is an amazing skill. Invention (which uses div) is terrible to interact with but as a skill it's good like herblore is good because of the benefits. Arch is boring because it's a gathering skills but as a lore fan I like it and the mysteries are like miniquests with puzzles, and the perks are good benefits. Necro I think everyone agrees is the best new skill they added. It's the best combat style because while it may not hit as hard as a fully kitted ranged or melee, it is easy to get into and has a sort of isolated zone/questline to get into and upgrade without relying on rare drops up until late game, instead it's just a somewhat lengthy material gathering process. I guess because it was a combat skill designed from the ground up so it didn't have the growing pains of skills and items that existed since the start.

Also the fort yeah it was good and it was mostly played seriously besides your foreman asking about a beer garden all the time but that's like usual RuneScape humor, and sure you don't actually throw your political weight around but maybe eventually, if they're smart. The only weak spot was the NB pooner butler. She's too involved in the murder mystery quest which otherwise is neat, pronouns in the suspect book aside. Her sister is the culprit and I would've loved Jagex forever if part of her motive was her sister is a pooner who thinks she's cut out to be a butler and she just wanted her sister back to I dunno do girly things with. I think it's almost that but she was also put up to it by Zemouregal. It'd be writing a heckin transphobe who tried to murder the king so it's still pro-fag since she's the bad guy but by writing a character doing that it shows they're not being completely PC. Afterwards you meet her at her sister's grave in another quest but you can at least answer neutral/unsupportive... Enough, just to get a move on instead of consoling the little pooner.

 

[Nardvark]

Post your favourite track  excluding those unlocked in Misthalin or Asgarnia.

The Fragment theme
Honorable mention to the Mor Ul Rek and Inferno themes
The SoTE library track is also damn good

Sailing

I voted no on sailing and I'm definitely still skeptical, but as far as maintaining the integrity of the game as they pump in more content, I have a lot more faith in Jagex than I'd ever give for another developer in a similar position. Shamanism or whatever spergy re-implementation of Summoning they were cooking up could genuinely fit nicely within existing content, it just depends on their handling of it.
I thought Yama sounded lame and hamfisted as fuck while they were rolling it out, but he's ended up being some of my favorite content in the game, so I'm willing to give them some real credit.
Also, gotta hand it to Bellamy for blasting tranny day within like a month of becoming CEO and simply ignoring the seethe, even if it was a business strategy it was really goddamn funny

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The Fragment theme
Honorable mention to the Mor Ul Rek and Inferno themes
The SoTE library track is also damn good

I voted no on sailing and I'm definitely still skeptical, but as far as maintaining the integrity of the game as they pump in more content, I have a lot more faith in Jagex than I'd ever give for another developer in a similar position. Shamanism or whatever spergy re-implementation of Summoning they were cooking up could genuinely fit nicely within existing content, it just depends on their handling of it.
I thought Yama sounded lame and hamfisted as fuck while they were rolling it out, but he's ended up being some of my favorite content in the game, so I'm willing to give them some real credit.
Also, gotta hand it to Bellamy for blasting tranny day within like a month of becoming CEO and simply ignoring the seethe, even if it was a business strategy it was really goddamn funny

I thought that Yama would be kinda cringe too, but I actually kinda like that he sort of exists as a sort of limit for how strong the protagonist is actually meant to be. Like, the RS3 protagonist is outright fighting against fucking gods like Amascut and Zamorak, while OSRS has a far more enjoyable limit to the protagonists strength.
I do wish that his design was maybe a little bit more unique, he does kinda just look like a larger greater demon that aura farms to me.

 

[Nardvark]

He does kinda just look like a larger greater demon that aura farms to me.

That was part of the reason I thought he'd be lame since we already have zammy and skotizo who are greater demon but ____, the aura farming does a lot of work for him in that department. Topically, this whole robospear thing is pretty exemplary of what makes him such good content, and a fun microcosm of the broadly autistic boundary pushing that leaves the game feeling so fresh, even today.

 

[Slap47]

Jim did about a dozen podcasts featuring that wave of WoW streamers who changed games. Apparently Jagex is far more competent than Blizzard.

 

[Monk Amen]

Oh I see.
Well, I never really hated the idea of new skills myself, the only problem is that there's really no world in which you can introduce them in a satisfying way at this point, the world map is extremely cluttered as it is, and nobody wants to run off to the middle of fucking nowhere to do the new skill (fucking even Hunter suffers from this problem). Sailing is good in that regard because it can be added in a way that actually feels somewhat intuitive. But the RS3 skills are dreadful because all of them are just shit like "now enemies drop an extra bonus item to do skill" or "now there are gay rifts where you do shamanistic dances to collect gay little wisps" or whatever else the fuck.
Meanwhile Sailing gives an endless opportunity to add a new skill without making it feel disjointed.

Credit where its due, it seems jagex put a good amount of effort to have.sailing interact with the rest of the skills and game as a whole.

Also im farming the hell outta lead and nickel. Seems like it will be good money.

Edit: ngl the WOW immigrants kinda worry me, despite fagex and content creators the community is quite chuddy, and is probably why pride slop isnt as widespread like rs3, if enough wowfags enter the game it might embolden jagex to be more brazen.

 

[Focken Kiwi]

Credit where its due, it seems jagex put a good amount of effort to have.sailing interact with the rest of the skills and game as a whole.

Also im farming the hell outta lead and nickel. Seems like it will be good money.

Edit: ngl the WOW immigrants kinda worry me, despite fagex and content creators the community is quite chuddy, and is probably why pride slop isnt as widespread like rs3, if enough wowfags enter the game it might embolden jagex to be more brazen.

Lead and nickel are already in game? I shoulda been working on gathering those over the weekend.