💬 Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Deepland Bystander]

Do you ever catch yourself getting tranny intrusive thoughts even after a long time of being out of the cult? Could just be an underlying illness but its scary how much its affected my thinking.

I've always been skeptical but being in art scenes, tranny related shit always pops up and I kept feeling like I'm getting mildly indoctrinated all the time because when you hear about it often enough, the innate desire to conform makes it sounds very enticing. Sometimes I get thoughts 'Maybe I should just become trans and I'll be showered with love and acceptance'. People celebrating you and thinking you're brave and stunning underdog.

But it's also a lie, we all know.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

I fully believe its on the way out or at least the grift wing of troonism is, the generalized apathy and overall disgust is slowly eating the profit driven. Troonism will soon go the way of punk where only those who "truly believe" will remain.

People got bored of punk, especially the political kind as opposed to the mostly apolitical pop-punk stuff, and I don't think even people who hate it see much need to stamp it out, or do anything more than just point and laugh at it.

On the other hand, with transgenderism, we can quite clearly see the damage it does to individuals, families, and entire societies, and the ungodly lengths that troons will go to infest everything, from your favorite hobbies to the most powerful institutions in society, just to cram their degeneracy down everyone else's throats, to groom children and to ruin the lives of anyone who objects.

It's also extremely cultlike, as they will do everything they can to poison the groomee against any friends or family who care about them if they're not affirming enough. Trying to steer someone away from that cult is considered "conversion therapy" according to many LGBTQ organizations and activists like the Trevor Project.

They're not going to go out with a whimper like other countercultures, they're going to fight to the bitter end to maintain their power, influence, and relevance. We should not be off our guard because most of them appear pathetic and impotent in their rage.

We need to do more than just point and laugh at the tards who are dumb enough to believe that crap. We need to ruthlessly stamp it out. Remove any and all troons and their enablers from any position of authority or influence. Gatekeep them out of your hobbies. If you are a business owner or manager, go out of your way to avoid hiring troons.

Most importantly, don't be afraid to wield the power of the state against troons. They weren't afraid to wield it against their enemies, like parents who wish to shield their children from troon groomers, or shitlords who make fun of troons on social media. So we shouldn't be afraid either.

To start off, we make it illegal to troon out kids, throw the book at any doctor who does anything from perscribing puberty blockers to hrt to GRS, throw the book at anyone who tries to encourage children to troon out.

But seeing that transgenderism as a whole violates the whole "do no harm" thing, even when done to full grown adults, we should then push the slippery slope in the opposite direction and make it illegal to troon out, period.

and all, but the comparisons between transgenderism and other countercultures of the past are only helpful on the surface, as not even hippies, punks, etc did nearly as much damage to themselves or others around them as troons do, nor were they as insanely cultlike as the LGBTQ is.

We're not dealing with a bunch of stupid kids who wear unconventional or even outright ugly clothing, these are not mere children who "stick it to the man" while annoying their parents and being harmless to the actual powers that be. We're dealing with a full-blown Slaneeshi cult that eats children and spreads mental sickness wherever they tread. We must not merely let it die, we must help it die. Eradication. Exterminatus.

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

On AGPs: Isn't it good that they challenge what men can and can't wear?

AGPs don't actually challenge anything with regard to what men can and cannot wear. As others have mentioned, it's a fetish for them, but something that others have not yet mentioned is that it's specifically a fetish rooted in humiliation.

They can't be challenging gendered expectations of clothing, because, by the very nature of being AGP, they clearly subscribe to those gendered expectations. They wouldn't be AGP if they didn't - that's how the fetish has to work. To them, a man wearing clothes like that is a degrading, embarrassing thing - that's why they like it.

Isn't it completely possible that they're only disliked because they're off-putting and hideous, instead of for any actual morality reason? Wouldn't this imply that men who are more conventionally attractive and androgynous are less immoral than the ugly men?

Beauty is an entirely subjective concept. Men who would otherwise embody the physical ideal of male beauty can be rendered hideously unattractive if the vibes are wrong.

Autogynephilia, by its nature, is an inherently predatory, creepy thing and women are able to detect that, even if they can't necessarily explain why or put a name to the feeling.

If Brad Pitt, for example, was an autogynephile, to me he would be unattractive because he's AGP.

Of course, you have boundary breaking behavior from AGPs: the rapists, the skinwalkers, the groomers... But if he is acting respectably and doesn't do anything bad, would there still be an issue?

The very existence of an AGP man indulging in crossdressing is by its nature boundary breaking. He isn't acting respectably, because simply by existing in his current state he is imposing his fetish on you without your consent. In addition, and as has been proven by history, that sort of behaviour, when unchallenged, always escalates to other levels of perverse and abusive behaviour, so even if he isn't necessarily a problem today, right this second, he may become a problem tomorrow.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

Beauty is an entirely subjective concept. Men who would otherwise embody the physical ideal of male beauty can be rendered hideously unattractive if the vibes are wrong.

I dunno if I would call it entirely subjective. Objective beauty standards are based on things that indicate good health, both physically and mentally.

Even alt fashion or countercultural garb can look good if done right, for example. The problem is that it's rarely done right these days, and trying too hard to look punkish is a major red flag.

Another red flag is going out of your way to flout beauty standards, by looking as ugly as possible in the hopes that people eventually get used to the eyesore and see it as "beautiful."

There is that phrase, "beauty is truth," so it makes sense why so many wokists, transgender activists in particular (Alok Vaid Menon and Jeffrey Marsh come to mind), not only fail to pass, but go out of their way to look ugly.

Beauty is somewhat subjective, but not THAT subjective.

 

[bouquetnine]

Fandom cultures are pretty much breeding grounds full of kids and young people who claim to be some flavor of LGBTQ (trans especially) and its hard to really know if some random troon accounts that get tens of thousands of likes on pro trans tweets are all bots or not.

This is a huge problem with the internet in general. Social media has a dramatic influence on how people behave and believe and non-genuine users have a deleterious influence. It's at the point where platforms are complicit: They have to know it's a small number of sources making a lot of posts, to the point that they're either there to broadcast and not engage (aka shills) or they're outright bots.

Social media is cancer.

 

[Soso]

I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said before. Personally, its hard to really say for certain because while it is true that laws are being passed and I hardly bump into troons despite being in a blue state, online culture really makes it hard to say if this will die down. Fandom cultures are pretty much breeding grounds full of kids and young people who claim to be some flavor of LGBTQ (trans especially) and its hard to really know if some random troon accounts that get tens of thousands of likes on pro trans tweets are all bots or not. I personally feel like the problem with troonism is online culture. I feel like if internet culture wasn't full of these types then I would say that it is on the way out.

I would stay away from anything involving fandoms most of the time. Certain ones tend to attract more insane groups than others (The Sims), and will be full of troons. As with most online communities, the chances of encountering troons in general is very very high. Online places tend to be much different than real life, so it won't be a surprise if some of them remain frozen. There are more online spaces though that form without troons, or at least appear visibly tired. However when an online community relies on a greasy admin, you kind of have to hope he doesn't troon out

 

[The Poopsmith]

But seeing that transgenderism as a whole violates the whole "do no harm" thing, even when done to full grown adults, make it illegal to troon out, period.

The issue here is that trooning out is only a symptom. AGP aside, take any physically healthy transgender and I'd bet dollars to donuts you'll find a whole host of poorly managed mental/psychological problems. If we actually had a functioning model for mental health care, I'm almost certain we'd have never gotten to this point.

Removing any purely psychological/sexual reasons, are there people who would objectively benefit from transition? I think so, but now we're getting into the realm of genetic, hormonal and physical defects (in the case of people with intersex disorders/ambiguous genitals). This should be treated as a medical condition, with transition being an absoloute last resort. In that sense, I don't think all procedures like this should be outright banned. People with a genuine, pathological, incongruence between their body and mind should be pitied and treated with compassion. But the guys who want to tell me that it's their human right to pound estrogen, get into the women's locker room and jerk off? Fuck 'em

 

[Angelos32]

I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said before. Personally, its hard to really say for certain because while it is true that laws are being passed and I hardly bump into troons despite being in a blue state, online culture really makes it hard to say if this will die down. Fandom cultures are pretty much breeding grounds full of kids and young people who claim to be some flavor of LGBTQ (trans especially) and its hard to really know if some random troon accounts that get tens of thousands of likes on pro trans tweets are all bots or not. I personally feel like the problem with troonism is online culture. I feel like if internet culture wasn't full of these types then I would say that it is on the way out.

Yeah part of the reason I hate them so much is because they’re so clearly the driving force behind the subversion of every hobby/game I enjoy. Literally can’t look at an online games community for 5 seconds without seeing that damn pink and blue flag. I do think though that more of them trying to enter the public sphere and demand everyone accept them has backfired spectacularly, the average person views them as disgusting freaks(even hasan piker from that one recent clip lmao). So my hope is that somehow HRT gets severely limited if not outright banned, and you see a mass amount of 41% and more inactive online profiles as a result corrupting everything.
Link to hasan clip:https://x.com/grxit/status/1979676843549798664?s=46

 

[Hinttitroniikka]

As a thought experiment, I'll try to steelman pro-tranny arguments because I'm interested in how people on here would best debunk them.

NB: Most supporters are of a specific school of thought referred to as being under the feminist umbrella, but there are other feminist theories. Egalitarian freedom of speech frees you to say really dumb stuff too.
Introspection: Introspection on its own doesn't lead you to the right answer. All flavours of crazy people have thought long and hard and tried to rule out their crazy ideas, and the mental illness and programming won. You may not know their feelings better than they do, but that doesn't mean they have a clue how to square or solve their issues.
SO transitioning: attraction is based on sex and/or gender (as I would phrase it when speaking to a person of gender). People fall out of love over the things you mentioned, or over changes in appearance. To transition can also mean a huge secret has been kept, or that there is an intolerable difference in worldviews. This is all way bigger than getting annoyed at your husband's midlife crisis-induced dream of becoming a professional tennis player.
AGP: At the end of the day, clothes are just cloth. AGP isn't dependent on the clothes. They can be part of it, but aren't necessary. The boundary-breaking behaviour you described is the acting out of fetishes much bigger than just wanting to wear pink.
SRS: Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice whatever good comes out of elective, purely cosmetic, non-reconstructive surgeries. That's a personal problem I'm willing to allow for the sake of the protection of everyone else. I don't care about people who don't like how they look. I agree it's hypocritical to care about "passing" at all and I don't see this as an argument, just a weird thing some people do.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

SRS: Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice whatever good comes out of elective, purely cosmetic, non-reconstructive surgeries. That's a personal problem I'm willing to allow for the sake of the protection of everyone else. I don't care about people who don't like how they look. I agree it's hypocritical to care about "passing" at all and I don't see this as an argument, just a weird thing some people do.

Even cosmetic, non-reconstructive surgeries aren't a good analogy, because we still make fun of people who take it too far. Over-reliance on it can turn you into a horrifying monstrosity.

Transgenderism involves trying to (and failing to) overhaul a person's entire physical makeup, trying to make males look like females, and vice versa, so of course it's going to be horrifying when they undergo a shit ton of cosmetic surgeries in a vain attempt to pass.

 

[Hinttitroniikka]

Even cosmetic, non-reconstructive surgeries aren't a good analogy, because we still make fun of people who take it too far. Over-reliance on it can turn you into a horrifying monstrosity.

Transgenderism involves trying to (and failing to) overhaul a person's entire physical makeup, trying to make males look like females, and vice versa, so of course it's going to be horrifying when they undergo a shit ton of cosmetic surgeries in a vain attempt to pass.

Oh I agree, I phrased it strangely, though. I think they all kind of come under the same category of trying to fix an internal problem by changing the external appearance, but I agree that looking weird and still feeling bad is not the same thing as people who wind up incontinent for life or die of sepsis or all the other tragedies than can and do follow SRS.

 

[Lentil Soup]

I was recently confronted with the all-too-familiar, annoying "Well, ~I~ have no problem with people doing whatever they want with their own lives (implying that it makes me such a good person)".

The counter to this statement is that most of the demands under "trans rights" involves imposing on other people. There isn't really a way to tease it out.

Like if a man decides he wants to live as a woman then cool, but if he then wants to use women's bathrooms and locker rooms he's imposing. If he wants to be on the women's sports team he's imposing. If he wants his treatment covered under health insurance he's imposing. If he expects people to ignore the reality they see with their own eyeballs and call him a "she" then he's imposing.

The average person is pretty tolerant of the village weirdo until they start making demands of others and this isn't an exception.

So I just ran into this thread and was wondering, do yall think troonism is finally on its way out? I think the whole identity politics angle of the democrats is going to be/has been taken out back and shot. Probably because outside of issues like immigration, I think troons and their actions(going after kids,sports,bathrooms etc) did more to sink the democrat platform than anything else.

I would say no, for one of the facts that you listed. A lot of Democrats have decided that this and immigration are their Holocaust issues and they're determined to be on the "right" side of history. I think they'll double down until they get at least a few more losses.

 

[Angelos32]

Just another thing that’s partially relevant, but theres been a lot of troonposting about 40k in the past few days. A lot of creators I follow are near giving up on it because gw is an objectively shit company. However letting the fucking troon hordes capture this would be a monumental fucking loss. Because these fuckers will follow you like smell to a pile of shit. Even these folks who I follow who want to create their own ip/game to prevent this from happening do not understand the monsters they are up against.

 

[Super Mario Brothers]

Ironically enough, I wish SRS was perfected and that trans people would be identical to their desired sex. Why? Because then trans nonsense would cease to exist and everyone (except for attention whores and meglomaniacs) would be happy.

 

[bouquetnine]

Just another thing that’s partially relevant, but theres been a lot of troonposting about 40k in the past few days. A lot of creators I follow are near giving up on it because gw is an objectively shit company. However letting the fucking troon hordes capture this would be a monumental fucking loss. Because these fuckers will follow you like smell to a pile of shit. Even these folks who I follow who want to create their own ip/game to prevent this from happening do not understand the monsters they are up against.

Space King has the potential to replace 40k. The creators are clearly based.

 

[Angelos32]

Space King has the potential to replace 40k. The creators are clearly based.

I like space king and what the creators are doing, but at the same time I want the troons cleared out of the hobby I’ve loved for a decade and grew up with.

 

[General Zoider]

Maybe I should just become trans and I'll be showered with love and acceptance'. People celebrating you and thinking you're brave and stunning underdog"

this boat has already left the port because there are so many trans now that both allies and trans will just see you as "oh look another one". Everyone is burnt out on trannes even other trannies, the only people still going hog wild are those chaser people or the groomer looking to keep their "Business" going.

 

[Doktor Grimm]

Do you ever catch yourself getting tranny intrusive thoughts even after a long time of being out of the cult? Could just be an underlying illness but its scary how much its affected my thinking.

Yep. It gets bad for me a few times a year. Complicating this is the fact that any sort of psychotherapy that isn't "affirming" is virtually nonexistent, so I'm on my fucking own. It feels like the whole system is rigged to push me down a path that I, as a competent adult, have decided that I don't want to go down. So I've become my own therapist out of necessity. I accept that I feel a certain way sometimes, but that this has nothing to do with being born in the wrong body. It has everything to do with the rigid ideals of masculine/feminine I was raised with, my family dynamics as a child, documented mental illnesses, and possibly a medical reason pertaining to how my body processes sex hormones (this was a recent revelation for sure, still figuring out how to proceed). So yeah, the thoughts do still come around. But if anything, they just galvanize me further against the "experts" who peddle this bullshit. They've perpetrated medical malpractice on a grand scale, and they've subjected thousands of people to treatment that wasn't right for them. If this was any other condition, mental or otherwise, people would be getting stripped of their credentials. But because this is so heavily politicized, it continues at the expense of people like us. I hate them for it.

That's natural, I think.

When you're a tranny, you're constantly using your intellect for things that seem extremely important. There's a goal to reach, it's an issue of life and death, and only through cunning, introspection, and grit can you "get closer" to it (really just treading water, though it takes a while to realise that). It's at the forefront of your mind 24 hours a day because it is literally the only thing that matters -- but you know this already.

Then you break away, and you're dazed, a bit light-headed, and everything is a little more exciting than before. It's like cutting off a parasitic tumour. All of a sudden you have a surplus of mental energy to apply to something real, and God knows after those last few years you need some meaningful labour to wash the stain away. Time to get this train back on the rails.

You go to a job interview and say "I'm here to apply myself". They tell you "that's great! Here's a position that leads to absolutely nothing, has no observable impact on the people around you, and pays not-quite-enough to afford rent". And you think, oh, okay, I'll try something else.

You go to university and say "I'm here to apply myself". They tell you "no problem! You can sign up for our course in Queer Post-Colonialisms, or you can study hard science with a bunch of barely-literate immigrants & earn a piece of paper that'll enable you to rot behind a computer for sixty years". And you think, oh, okay, I'll try something else.

You go to church and say "please help; I've messed up big-time, and I need to fight this thing". They tell you "good news! By believing in the Lord's name, you're already saved". And you think... oh... okay... thanks. If this job, and this degree, and this church is all there is, what right do I have to complain? Nobody said leaving the cult would be satisfying; I'm doing it because it's good for me.

So you carry on living your life how it's ostensibly supposed to be lived, but the trannies won't go away, and you feel obliged to keep an eye on them anyways. You watch these people laying their lives down for the right to destroy themselves, tirelessly debating the nature of the Gender Experience, united in faux-victory under a thousand ugly flags, and tell yourself wow, all of this is so, so, stupid -- but you remember how it felt. And you're coming up empty every time you go looking for genuinely transformative work. How could you not feel an urge to put the blindfold back on for a little bit?

It seems like, now more than ever, the world is built to force you into these harmful alternative traditions, lest you go totally nuts. I'll restrain myself from shilling anything, but I think if you're someone with an active mind you need to grab onto something that lets you confront those demons directly. What could a therapist tell you that you don't already know?

 

[Tragi-Chan]

If nonbinary identities are inherently reductive and sexist, why is it that the people advocating in favor of them are largely feminists, while those against it are often antifeminist? Furthermore, why are nonbinary identities only present in egalitarian countries if they're reductive and sexist?

I see no contradiction. Both feminism and non-binary identities are socially liberal positions. However, feminism is not a monolith - feminists as a whole can be both for and against.

If someone says they're trans, they likely introspected a lot about it and discussed it with a therapist who knows what they're doing. They likely also tried living as a gender nonconforming man/woman first but found it unsatisfactory. Why would someone who isn't the trans-identifying person feel like they have better insight than the trans-identifying person or the professional therapist in what's best for them? Just saying "it's a cult/ideology" to someone who is very confident in their identity wouldn't be enough to make them reconsider, even if you're right.

Firstly, we know that a lot of troons are not going through the legitimate routes.

Secondly, we know it is possible to lie your way through therapy (see Jennifer Diane Reitz).

Thirdly, it is possible to go the legitimate route and still not address the root of the problem. Brianna Wu is clearly very mentally ill, despite claims that he cured himself through transition. On a more general note, psychiatric medicine has been known to go through fads that turned out to be damaging - lobotomy, the Satanic Panic etc.

Fourthly, “it’s a cult” is a legitimate reason to doubt subjective testimony. We know how the trans community operates, and how they treat detransitioners. My question is always, where are the successful troons? The ones who were fuckups and are now doing really well? That would be a better metric to judge the success of transitioning.

On having your significant other transition: People naturally go through changes like growing older, getting new personality traits or opinions, losing a job, losing or gaining weight and in general still discovering themselves. Why would a sex change be any more different than seeing a spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend change in any other way?

The examples you list are false equivalence, though. Transitioning is more akin to your SO developing an addiction or mental illness - it changes who they are (or who you thought they were) on a fundamental level.

Furthermore, it demands that you accept not only that your husband is a woman, but that he’s always been a woman and if you accept that, that you are a lesbian. This is before we’ve got on to the raft of fetishes that tend to come with AGP.

On AGPs: Isn't it good that they challenge what men can and can't wear? Isn't it completely possible that they're only disliked because they're off-putting and hideous, instead of for any actual morality reason? Wouldn't this imply that men who are more conventionally attractive and androgynous are less immoral than the ugly men? Of course, you have boundary breaking behavior from AGPs: the rapists, the skinwalkers, the groomers... But if he is acting respectably and doesn't do anything bad, would there still be an issue?

But they aren’t challenging anything. They wear women’s clothing because that’s what women wear. That’s the fetish. That’s what differentiates an AGP from a bloke wearing a dress because he lost a bet.

The common consensus on Kiwifarms is that SRS is butchery, it sells false promises and it blatantly lies to the misguided tranny about how far modern medicine has come. The same can be said about puberty blockers for children: they keep the child underdeveloped physically, mentally and keeps them a permanently dependent on predatory medicine. It's logical to have these butcheries made illegal. But at the same time, this makes it impossible for any tranny to ever pass because any way except for crossdressing is immoral or made illegal. Wouldn't this be unfair to those (even if it's 0,0001% of all people) who would genuinely be happier after going through those surgeries? If they're adults and give fully informed consent, knowing every single possible complication, wouldn't it be their right to do whatever they want with their bodies?

But trannies never do pass. Maybe there’s some mythical troon who 100% passes all the time, but if there is, he’s bloody quiet about it.

In any case, I don’t think it’s unfair, because I don’t believe it can make a person happier in the long term. Because it’s not turning them into a woman, it’s just making them look a little bit more like one than they did before. Eventually they’ll hit a limit to what transitioning can do. Therefore. it’s better to deal with it before they destroy their bodies.

Not only that, but isn't it hypocritical to see passing trannies as more genuine than non-passing trannies if you're against SRS?

I don’t see any of them as genuine. I used to think that way, because I felt that putting effort in indicated legitimacy.

 

[Anasa Tristis]

If he expects people to ignore the reality they see with their own eyeballs and call him a "she" then he's imposing.

The biggest troon demand is "perceive me as I imagine myself and treat me as I want you to, not as I am."

And that's too big an ask. It cannot and will not work. Not now or ever. Even the most surgically altered and "stealth" tranny is still not the opposite sex. They're just successful frauds enjoying a placebo effect until one inherent thing or another reveals the deception. Our species has (and requires) two sexes for reproduction and they evolved differently. And like it or not (and despite our best modern efforts) the foundation of human society rests on the two sexes, on their complemetary capabilities, their reproductive roles, and their natural limits.

We've been pretty successful, getting around many of our natural limits with our clever tech and social progress. But who is male bodied and who is female bodied isn't fundamentally changing, isn't going anywhere.