Red Letter Media

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Favorite recurring character? (Select 4)

  • Jack / AIDSMobdy

    Votes: 257 24.0%
  • Josh / the Wizard

    Votes: 77 7.2%
  • Colin (Canadian #1)

    Votes: 460 42.9%
  • Jim (Canadian #2)

    Votes: 230 21.4%
  • Tim

    Votes: 386 36.0%
  • Len Kabasinski

    Votes: 208 19.4%
  • Freddie Williams

    Votes: 274 25.5%
  • Patton Oswalt

    Votes: 27 2.5%
  • Macaulay Culkin

    Votes: 541 50.4%
  • Max Landis

    Votes: 64 6.0%

  • Total voters
    1,073
You might wanna check my edit, lol.

And yes, the prequels borrow heavily visually from those older serials (the Naboo fighters in particular), but the difference is they are bogged down with bad pacing/writing issues.
A subjective opinion. Many people enjoyed the PT just as they did the OT, and many people who saw the OT saw it as juvenile. Hell, the guy who played Obi-Wan Kenobi in the OT, Alec Guinness, thought it was "mumbo-jumbo".

The same flaws exist in both trilogies: them slapping you in the face with arbitrary morals, some acts are entirely rushed, and some dialogue is so shoddy, and yes, that included the OT, with the Han Solo actor Harrison Ford openly telling Lucas "You can type this shit George, but you sure as hell can't say it."

Lucas also cited Kurosawa as an influence, specifically the Hidden Fortress. But is it a case of,

It wasn't set in feudal Japan, ergo Lucas is full of shit.

or

Lucas took elements from it and gradually ramped some of them up as the series progressed (eg, the comedic duo/comedy relief found in Hidden Fortress is found with Threepio/R2D2 but gets cranked to 11 in RotJ.
No shit. Just as with the Prequels AND the Originals, nothing was a 1-1 recreation.
 
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The difference being that George had full control of everything in the PT. Harrison ad libbed some lines, other people in the process had a say in the creative process, etc.

It's something that even the Plinkett reviews acknowledge, in a way that probably flew over your head since it was done visually and didn't hold your hand in explaining things.

And if Disney was chasing the money, there wouldn't be an entire cottage industry of hopeless retards like Jeremy Hambeast or Razorfist shitting themselves over every little decision. They just saw Star Wars as another Marvel property where they could crank out nonstop movies and audiences would gobble it up with little complaint because capeshit fatigue hadn't set in yet.
 
The difference being that George had full control of everything in the PT. Harrison ad libbed some lines, other people in the process had a say in the creative process, etc.
Why do you think that is? People adored him after the OT. And yes, he had quite a lot of control in the OT as well. A few ad-libbed lines nonetheless, Lucas also had near-absolute control of the OT. Other writers working with him wanted to kill characters like Yoda or Han, and Lucas put his foot down and said no. Lucas had the final word in the OT, and others who wanted to make story changes to it that Lucas didn't like had to sit there and take it.

Something like the Ewoks defeating the Empire had Lucas' fingerprints all over it, and as stupid as it was, it was what they went with, because it's what Lucas wanted. He wanted it to be his Vietcong allegory, nobody was able to stop him, even though the idea was completely bonkers and went against the themes of the first two films. Even back in the OT, people were backing down and letting Lucas have his cake and eat it too, even if the ideas were silly.

If Lucas didn't have full control of the OT, something as silly as the Ewoks defeating the Empire wouldn't have flown. They'd have said something like "George, we established the Empire as a grave threat in the first two movies. Having them lose to teddy bears with wooden sticks and stones is completely stupid." And they'd veto that idea and force him to go with the original idea of Wookiees. Except they'd probably give the Wookiees guns so that them defeating the Empire on the ground would be more plausible.

That isn't what happened. Lucas put in his silly teddy bears defeating the Empire because he badly wanted a Vietcong allegory. And it's what wound up on the screen. Not to mention that the Ewoks weren't a minor thing like Jar-Jar was; he was just a side comic character, the Ewoks tipped the balance of power to the good guys' favor in the final battle of the series. At least TPM was more realistic in that something as silly as Jar-Jar wound up being as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it came to an actual battle.

Lucas was putting silly shit in the movies long before the PT. If something like Jar-Jar surprised you, you weren't paying attention. The Ewoks were the Jar-Jar of the OT, except unlike the latter who was just a comic side character, the former is the reason the good guys even win.

It's something that even the Plinkett reviews acknowledge, in a way that probably flew over your head since it was done visually and didn't hold your hand in explaining things.
I remember him saying that, and I knew it was false, because Lucas had a near-absolute control over the OT as well, to the point where he'd veto ideas because he didn't feel like they'd work well.

And if Disney was chasing the money, there wouldn't be an entire cottage industry of hopeless retards like Jeremy Hambeast or Razorfist shitting themselves over every little decision. They just saw Star Wars as another Marvel property where they could crank out nonstop movies and audiences would gobble it up with little complaint because capeshit fatigue hadn't set in yet.
Disney and Lucas both chased money. Yet Lucas' Star Wars was able to chase it with less controversy because he appealed to the fans. Yes, even with the Prequels. Meanwhile, Disney appealed to people who bitched about Star Wars, not people who loved Star Wars. The end result being that their movie trilogy was a hollow facsimile of the OT, as opposed to something like the PT which had things like Yoda fighting the Emperor, which the fans desperately wanted.

Like I said before, I will never forgive RLM because their bitching led the Star Wars franchise to its current, sorry state. It was their fans' constant bitching that got Lucas to sell. It was their recommendation of JJ Abrams and copying the OT that Disney followed. And that led to disaster, since Disney based their Sequel Trilogy, which was the bedrock of their new SW franchise, on RLM's suggestions. And what we got was mystery boxes and bullshit. Even if you removed TLJ and ROS as factors, TFA practically undid everything that was done in the OT for the sake of blind nostalgia. They reduced the Original Trilogy to the same status as Naruto anime filler by undoing the heroes' accomplishments offscreen.

Ironically, thanks to RLM suggesting JJ Abrams do something similar to the OT, they've made it so the Prequels are the only films that matter, since the Jedi and the Republic stay dead. RLM suggested JJ Abrams. JJ Abrams wiped out the accomplishments of the OT heroes to make things more like the way they were when the OT started. Any fan of the OT should be mad at that outrage, and that outrage's source is RLM, and their idiotic suggestions.
 
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Are there people that still think Disney hired JJ because of depressed midwestern drunk said so?

It's people like RLM that can be blamed for the rut Star Wars is in now. Especially since their fans' constant bitching led to Lucas selling, and they recommended JJ Abrams outright, not to mention the whole "it's not the OT" complaint they have for the PT, which led to Disney making a bland facsimile of the OT with mystery boxes for their Sequel Trilogy, setting them up for failure.
I will never forgive RLM because their bitching led the Star Wars franchise to its current, sorry state. It was their fans' constant bitching that got Lucas to sell. It was their recommendation of JJ Abrams and copying the OT that Disney followed. And that led to disaster, since Disney based their Sequel Trilogy, which was the bedrock of their new SW franchise, on RLM's suggestions.
Told you!

Disney appealed to people who bitched about Star Wars, not people who loved Star Wars. The end result being that their movie trilogy was a hollow facsimile of the OT, as opposed to something like the PT which had things like Yoda fighting the Emperor, which the fans desperately wanted.

LOL Really? REALLY???

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WTF are you even smoking? Disney did nothing but appeal to the people who loved Star Wars.
 
Told you!

LOL Really? REALLY???

View attachment 8037950

WTF are you even smoking? Disney did nothing but appeal to the people who loved Star Wars.
Nope. They appealed to that idiotic critic side at first, especially since they avoided the Prequels like a plague while trying to milk OT nostalgia until it was dry. Then when that blew up in their faces, they started whoring out to TCW fans and PT fans.

And again, it was RLM that suggested JJ Abrams, and it was JJ who made the Original Trilogy worthless by undoing everything the heroes accomplished in it offscreen, just to create a hollow facsimile of the original 1977 Star Wars, which is what RLM wanted. Hell, they praised Force Awakens, which goes to show they never loved the OT to begin with; no person who loves the OT would be OK with the adventures of Luke, Han, Leia and the gang being relegated to the same status as Naruto anime filler.
 
Hey fuck you, the episode about Team 7 trying to get Kakashi's mask off only for him to troll them with another mask under it at the end was perfection.
But you could cut it entirely from the story and not miss a beat. Which is what happened to the OT.

pretty impressive that he hasn't mentioned KOTOR desu
Thank you for reminding me. KOTOR, KOTOR, KOTOR.

But in all honesty, something like KOTOR is what you'd probably get if Lucas' more childish instincts were reigned in during the time of the OT's creation. Which goes to show that Lucas had just as much absolute power back in the 70s and 80s as he did when he was making the PT. RLM's narrative that people stood up to him back in the 70s and 80s to stop him from doing whatever he wanted makes no sense, especially when he put things in like the Ewoks which greatly contrasted with the dark tone of the previous film, while also diminishing the threat level of the Empire when teddy bears with sticks and rocks are what lead to the Rebels winning the final battle.

The most you get is Ford defying him with the "I know" line, and Alec Guiness talking Lucas into killing off his character because he thought the whole thing was silly, and he wanted to have a smaller part in the story. But with the former, that's the exception to the rule, and the latter, Lucas was amenable to Alec's suggestion and saw it as something he'd be in favor of, as well.

Of course, there were positives to Lucas having a spine, back then. He refused to kill off characters to arbitrarily raise the stakes, something that was all the rage among movie-makers back then. He wanted people to feel good about the story, and not have cheap deaths for the sake of drama. If the other writers had their way, they might've killed off Han, or Yoda, or maybe even Luke, but Lucas told them to shove it up their asses; he wasn't killing people just for the sake of heightening tension. When he killed off characters like Qui-Gon Jinn or Shmi Skywalker in the Prequels, he did it to push Anakin further down the Dark Side, where he was destined to go. Jinn's death robbed Anakin of the master that could've kept him in the Light, and Shmi's death pushed him further down the Dark Side. Their deaths served a purpose beyond cheap drama.

And going along with the KOTOR analogue, the Luke Skywalker of KOTOR was Revan. And what did they do with him? Kill him and replace him with a woman, which is what Lawrence Kasdan wanted to do with Luke in the Original Trilogy, to kill him and replace him with Leia. It was Lucas who vetoed that plan.
 
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Except they left Biggs in the film with no explanation why he knows Luke or why he was a rebel.
The scene where Biggs catches up with Luke in the hangar before the Death Star attack is also cut in the theatrical release. I think it was added back in the special edition. In the original cut, there's no reason to believe Luke knows Biggs any more than he does Wedge, who he also calls out by name during the battle.
 
I see you're new to Lord Imperator's meandering, autistic babbling. His presence in the RLM thread is sure to be a delight.
Nah, I think if you check the star wars thread we've already tangled. I just hadn't seen this baffling point from him before.

Nope. They appealed to that idiotic critic side at first, especially since they avoided the Prequels like a plague while trying to milk OT nostalgia until it was dry. Then when that blew up in their faces, they started whoring out to TCW fans and PT fans.
Right.... nobody hated the prequels before RLM....

Which goes to show that Lucas had just as much absolute power back in the 70s and 80s as he did when he was making the PT. RLM's narrative that people stood up to him back in the 70s and 80s to stop him from doing whatever he wanted makes no sense, especially when he put things in like the Ewoks which greatly contrasted with the dark tone of the previous film, while also diminishing the threat level of the Empire when teddy bears with sticks and rocks are what lead to the Rebels winning the final battle.
No, their point is proven because we saw exactly what happened when Lucas did have absolute power.

It was called the Holiday Special and the Ewok movies. (Movie #1, Caravan of Courage, is rather amazing for how much it previews "Phantom Menace.")

If the other writers had their way, they might've killed off Han, or Yoda, or maybe even Leia, but Lucas told them to shove it up their asses; he wasn't killing people just for the sake of heightening tension.
At this point I wonder what else the voices are telling you because spoiler alert for the "Return of the Jedi" movie... Yoda dies. And nobody ever wanted to kill Leia.
 
Right.... nobody hated the prequels before RLM....
No, as I said before, it was mostly Gen X people who hated the Prequels. The boomers didn't give much of a shit and saw both trilogies as silly fun.

The moment the millennials and Gen Z came of age, they started filling the web with "Prequels Good" videos.

But as I said, RLM did irreparable harm to SW by suggesting JJ Abrams take the lead. And Abrams filled his film with the usual hollow flare and mystery boxes. The entire SW franchise has the Sequels as a boat anchor tied to its neck, with newer media like the Mandalorian movie and Ahsoka meant to explain its circumstances away.

No, their point is proven because we saw exactly what happened when Lucas did have absolute power.
The Ewoks exist in the first place because Lucas had absolute power. Nobody shot down such a stupid idea as the Ewoks being the tip of the spear. If anything, the later Ewoks cartoons weren't that crazy.

Last I checked, the Holiday Special was done by some network. Also, it came out before ESB, so if you're using it as an example of Lucas having total power, then that means he had absolute power back in the 70s. It was basically a prequel to ESB, used to introduce Boba Fett.

Also, like I said before, Lucas also used his absolute power to prevent cheap character deaths. Luke, Yoda, and Han would've been killed for cheap drama if Lucas didn't have absolute power.

At this point I wonder what else the voices are telling you because spoiler alert for the "Return of the Jedi" movie... Yoda dies. And nobody ever wanted to kill Leia.
He died naturally. In his sleep. He wasn't killed for a cheap drama thrill.

I suppose you're right about Leia. But Luke would've died if Lucas didn't have absolute power.
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If Lucas didn't have absolute power, Luke would be dead. Kasdan wanted Luke gone so Leia would take over. Remember how angry people were when they killed Luke and replaced him with a woman? They wanted to kill him off and replace him with a woman as far back as the 80s, and Lucas had to stop them.

Star Wars would have ended with Luke dead if Lucas didn't have absolute power. They would've probably killed off Han Solo as well, since that's what Harrison Ford wanted.

The scene where Biggs catches up with Luke in the hangar before the Death Star attack is also cut in the theatrical release. I think it was added back in the special edition. In the original cut, there's no reason to believe Luke knows Biggs any more than he does Wedge, who he also calls out by name during the battle.
It still doesn't make sense why a civilian farm boy like Luke has no bones about killing fellow human beings. At least a hardened killer like Han, an elderly knight like Obi-Wan, and a political zealot like Leia killing people without a second thought would make sense. But if you add the Biggs scenes in, both of them, then you realize that Luke had already dehumanized the Imperials in his mind, which makes it easier for him to kill Stormtroopers and blow up millions of Imperial humans on the Death Star.
 
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But as I said, RLM did irreparable harm to SW by suggesting JJ Abrams take the lead.

See, the fact that you seem to genuinely believe that one of the world's largest entertainment multinationals took their cue from a bunch of schlubby grade Z filmmakers from Wisconsin is a sign that none of the rest of your endless rants need be taken seriously. Nobody who doesn't require headgear to leave the house believes this.

Nah, I think if you check the star wars thread we've already tangled. I just hadn't seen this baffling point from him before.

I dipped out of the Star Wars thread aeons ago partly because of this sort of nonsense but mostly because Star Wars has been functionally dead since the Disney purchase and there's not a damn thing they've ever produced that I care about (unless you count the Rebellion board game from 2017). The franchise attracts goofy fanboys like few others, which is why whoever mods this thread should probably smack all of us with a warning. Star Wars is probably impossible to avoid in the RLM thread, but look at how it just consumes the conversation whenever the topic comes up.

My own experience with this fella is from the Game of Thrones thread, where gigantic walls of text spouted by Darth Vader was a sign to flex my scrollin' finger.
 
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See, the fact that you seem to genuinely believe that one of the world's largest entertainment multinationals took their cue from a bunch of schlubby grade Z filmmakers from Wisconsin is a sign that none of the rest of your endless rants need be taken seriously. Nobody who doesn't require headgear to leave the house believes this.
RLM was quite popular in the internet sphere at the time of the sale, and their Prequels videos were still accepted Gospel in the mid-2010s. So no shit, the people who bought Star Wars at the time would listen to them. Especially since throngs of morons were repeating their lines about the Prequels all the time.

Maybe if the internet and social media didn't exist at the time, they would've ignored RLM. But that wasn't the media atmosphere of the 2010s.
 
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RLM was quite popular in the internet sphere at the time of the sale, and their Prequels videos were still accepted Gospel in the mid-2010s. So no shit, the people who bought Star Wars at the time would listen to them.

You can mouth this silliness for the rest of your life but it will never make it true.

JJ Abrams wasn't hired because of RLM. He was hired because he was a known quantity with popular titles to his credit and had demonstrated he could handle a big science fiction franchise. If RLM had said something insane like "Wim Wenders would be the perfect guy to helm Star Wars!" and Disney had actually hired Wim Wenders, you might have a point. But this is more like suggesting Tom Cruise play a leading man action hero and, shock, someone actually casts him as one.

More to the point, the disaster that was the Star Wars sequels mostly comes down to a complete lack of planning -- there was no bible or overarching outline for the continuing storyline, which is a jawdropping decision, and not one that had a blessed thing to do with anything RLM ever said. RLM didn't do a lick of damage to Star Wars, any more than Roger Ebert saved Phantom Menace by giving it a positive review. (Yes, he really did, go look it up.) It's all the result of corporate stupidity, bad management, and lack of foresight from a company culture that for at least the last decade has been anathema to art or storytelling.

But go on, keep blaming the Milwaukee drunks, if it makes you feel better.
 
JJ Abrams wasn't hired because of RLM. He was hired because he was a known quantity with popular titles to his credit and had demonstrated he could handle a big science fiction franchise. If RLM had said something insane like "Wim Wenders would be the perfect guy to helm Star Wars!" and Disney had actually hired Wim Wenders, you might have a point. But this is more like suggesting Tom Cruise play a leading man action hero and, shock, someone actually casts him as one.
He wasn't the only one. There were just as many in Hollywood who would've qualified. Hell, given how Trekkies hated his Trek films, that should've been a warning sign to Disney that he'd do the same thing to Star Wars: fill it with hollow trash and mystery boxes, and get the fans angry. JJ's main foray into sci-fi was those Trek films, and the fans hated them and had so many problems with them.

Disney could've gotten James Cameron, Michael Bay, or Peter Jackson to direct. Cameron's forays into sci-fi were monumental films like Terminator, Aliens, and Avatar. Michael Bay's foray into sci-fi at the time were highly profitable Transformers films. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings stood as a classic of fantasy filmmaking, and Star Wars was part fantasy.

Instead, they chose JJ Abrams, the guy whose sci-fi films pissed off the fans of the franchise he made them in.

More to the point, the disaster that was the Star Wars sequels mostly comes down to a complete lack of planning -- there was no bible or overarching outline for the continuing storyline, which is a jawdropping decision, and not one that had a blessed thing to do with anything RLM ever said. RLM didn't do a lick of damage to Star Wars, any more than Roger Ebert saved Phantom Menace by giving it a positive review. (Yes, he really did, go look it up.) It's all the result of corporate stupidity, bad management, and lack of foresight from a company culture that for at least the last decade has been anathema to art or storytelling.
Mostly thanks to JJ just pulling shit out of his ass. Unlike Lucas, who had a plan, JJ was just putting mystery boxes and just winging it. More to the point, the most egregious damage was done by undoing the feats of the OT heroes to recreate the scenario of ANH, something which RLM pushed for because they wanted SW to be more like the OT.

But go on, keep blaming the Milwaukee drunks, if it makes you feel better.

Your attitude would've worked if this was before the internet and RLM would at most be running a magazine with a couple thousand subscribers. But by the time of the sale, millions of viewers and critics touted RLM as having the right opinions on Star Wars. And it's no accident that Disney picked the guy that RLM favored and put the franchise on the direction RLM wanted. Things don't happen in a vacuum. You're acting as if they do. Which is completely ignorant.
 
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