Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[The Nothingness]

So, this is something a buddy of mine brought up when talking about the latest short. Why is Millie in the IMP or why was she an assassin in the first place?

The flashback of how Millie and Blitzo met made it seem like she was inspired by Blitzo's speech of rising above their imp status. Maybe she should have been the one with the advocate personality because Blitzo doesn't seem to care about being "champion of the little guy" (despite how the showrunners present him).

 

[The tired cat]

The flashback of how Millie and Blitzo met made it seem like she was inspired by Blitzo's speech of rising above their imp status. Maybe she should have been the one with the advocate personality because Blitzo doesn't seem to care about being "champion of the little guy" (despite how the showrunners present him).

But in the same flashback, he mentions how Millie was already a known assassin that took contracts and is one of the reasons he came looking for her. So, it's not like she wasn't "above the imp" status already, since most imps we saw worked as servants, and she clearly made a name for herself in some circles. An this goes back to the problem, from what we're kinda given is IMP made of individuals with a trouble past, that they wanna go above: Moxxie breaking from his family, Loona having a new life, Blitzo showing he ain't a fuck up. But Millie here throws a wrench, because she doesn't have a troubled past or is she a damaged individual, she's pretty much a huge opposite to all three characters.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

It just dawned on me that none of the shorts feature Stolas or deal with the shipping content. Honestly I'm surprised with the restraint

 

[The tired cat]

It just dawned on me that none of the shorts feature Stolas or deal with the shipping content. Honestly I'm surprised with the restraint

I ain't surprised, mostly because the shorts were made in spite to "shut up dem haters", so course Viv won't shove the gay romance into it.

 

[Egregore]

I know what you mean. I'd love to corrupt Viv to the dark side. The conservative side.

I can fix her.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

So, this is something a buddy of mine brought up when talking about the latest short. Why is Millie in the IMP or why was she an assassin in the first place? Moxxie is because he wanted to escape his mobster life style, Loona because she was an abandoned child. But...why Millie? We see her parents are very loving and supportive of her, so it isnt family angle like Moxxie, she isnt an orphan like Loona. I thought maybe Sally May was this bad ass assassin herself, an Millie wanted to be like her or felt like she was in her shadow....but that also isnt a deal.

The flashback of how Millie and Blitzo met made it seem like she was inspired by Blitzo's speech of rising above their imp status. Maybe she should have been the one with the advocate personality because Blitzo doesn't seem to care about being "champion of the little guy" (despite how the showrunners present him).

But in the same flashback, he mentions how Millie was already a known assassin that took contracts and is one of the reasons he came looking for her. So, it's not like she wasn't "above the imp" status already, since most imps we saw worked as servants, and she clearly made a name for herself in some circles. An this goes back to the problem, from what we're kinda given is IMP made of individuals with a trouble past, that they wanna go above: Moxxie breaking from his family, Loona having a new life, Blitzo showing he ain't a fuck up. But Millie here throws a wrench, because she doesn't have a troubled past or is she a damaged individual, she's pretty much huge opposite to all three characters.

Most of this is just speculation because the show just doesn't want to expand on Millie, but she probably wanted to do something else than being a farm girl all her life. She's the oldest of five I believe and from what we heard grew up poor. They probably almost never left Wrath, but the few times they could afford to go to Loo Loo Land in Greed, and Millie has fond memories of that. Maybe she liked the idea of seeing new places in Hell and expanding her horizons, and knew she couldn't do that if she stayed around and took over the family farm. So when she was old enough she probably left the farm and proceeded to do "freelance work".

She probably had a hard time finding a job because most are probably not looking for imps with "farm experience". She probably found this assassin job because she is good at killing, and it would be a way for her to explore the other rings. But (if we take Viv's Twitter thread on Millie) is a family-orientated person so she couldn't make friends or be a part of a comminuty in this line of work. But she doesn't want to go home and admit failure to her parents, because she's stubborn and doesn't want to give up. So she figures that this is the only way to live around here, and becomes cold and hardened to the world around her.

That is until she met Blitzø, who showed her she doesn't have to follow this status quo. In this company, she can be her happy and peppy self even if she's an assassin. She is able to form a bond with her other employees. She can be a free spirit and open herself to do things she never dreamed were possible to do, while still supporting herself financially.

Now did the people behind this show actually thought of all this for Millie's character? I don't know. This is just how I would write her without having to add an "uwu sad backstory".

 

[SpiderBitch]

That's how you know Blitz is a wish fufilment character: He has scores of bedmates and partners who loved him so much that they dedicated the remainder of their unending lives to worshipping him. Him, an annoying, shrieking clown who can't go 2 seconds without a sex joke or crying about his self inflicted problems.

I hate Blitzo anyway so that episode in particular just kinda crystalized it and made my reasons much more solid.

I mean, similar can be said about Stolas.
Selfserving, whiny, annoying, passive agressive, cringy, flamboyant bastard who cant take a hint and constantly throws pity parties while not really giving af how he affects those around him, who is in a situationship with some equally awful and even more mentally ill uggo, arent exactly unrealistic traits for a homo to have. Im sure many people have had run-ins with someone like that at least once. It could honestly make for a very engaging character if it was written with any talent and depth.

The character only becomes insufferable because despite sucking he's also vizies no. 1 pet and always has to be narratively considered in the right, gets his negative effect on others severely downplayed and gets relationship development just handed to him even if it makes 0 fucking sense mary-sue style.
And its clear that they want us to actually feel oh so sad for him, consider stolitz scenes romantic, etc when he has 0 going on outside of being toxic and annoying.
Nothing sympathetic about him (no matter how many times they attempt to shoehorn something in), and nothing about him that makes non-sympathethic characters fun to watch or useful to the story either.

Theres this drama musical called falsettos that centers around a family where the dad leaves the wife and son to go be gay. All of the characters in it are realistically unlikable to a degree (the dad is selfish, the mom is bitter, the kid is whiny, the gay lover is a skank and the therapist is creepy), but because they get neither demonized nor brownnosed for it, they remain engaging enough to watch.

This might as well be a more grounded Stella from another universe, altho I fully support the assassination plans atp

 

[AnOminous]

Moxxie is because he wanted to escape his mobster life style, Loona because she was an abandoned child. But...why Millie?

Isn't she just really good at it? She got banned from those games for killing her competitors.

 

[Beggamania]

Hmm....

PS: Real funny seeing people say "Alastor's half black, ackshu-" - nigga, why does Uncle Ruckus exist as a character? Where do slaves initially came from, and whom sold them first? Lul

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Hmm....
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PS: Real funny seeing people say "Alastor's half black, ackshu-" - nigga, why does Uncle Ruckus exist as a character? Where do slaves initially came from, and whom sold them first? Lul

No, it's okay because Alastor's soul belongs to Rosie and she sings a song about how he's her pet and how she runs this zoo and-

You know, I don't think Viv thought this through fully...SHOCKING, I know.

 

[King Metalia]

Hmm....
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PS: Real funny seeing people say "Alastor's half black, ackshu-" - nigga, why does Uncle Ruckus exist as a character? Where do slaves initially came from, and whom sold them first? Lul

I need more racist Alastor memes in my life. Like instead of him offering Husk booze he offers fried chicken and watermelon.

 

[The tired cat]

Isn't she just really good at it? She got banned from those games for killing her competitors.

To be honest, I thought that was just common for Wrath ring, since we saw Striker also being good at this stuff.

 

[Baphometkun]

Its annoying how uncreative Viv and her team are when building this society of hell. I firmly believe they make up the show as they go, because everything they put into it feels last minute. They don't build on anything in universe because they haven't thought of it yet. The pool looks deep but it's embarrassingly shallow. This is an persistent issue. Nothing has really changed.

A prison in hell seems a little jarring because you immediately associate prisons with the justice system. But when you think about it, it makes sense for demons to be imprisoned if they steal from Mammon because he's a greedy fuck. It's not like that's showcased though. Its an explanation for how Moxxie met Blitzo.

Millie has killed her competitors in the past, thus she's banned from the games, but wouldn't killing be seen as a normal thing by wrathians? Praised, even? I guess not.

The audience is doing a majority of the leg work here. While that isn't a bad thing (show don't tell) we're filling in more blanks than we should, and it drives home the fact Vivienne only wants to focus on her gay fanfic melodrama. The actual story comes second.

Are the imps parallels to everyday people, or are they hellish entities? Pick one, build on it, and make it make sense for the world.

 

[Exegesis]

The audience is doing a majority of the leg work here. While that isn't a bad thing (show don't tell) we're filling in more blanks than we should, and it drives home the fact Vivienne only wants to focus on her gay fanfic melodrama. The actual story comes second.

I've stated this before and I will repeat it:
The quality of writing in modern shows has gone down massively because people learned how to write not by taking English classes but instead by reading fanfiction on Tumblr and ao3. If you haven't even taken a college level English class and passed it with a B or above then you are in no position to be writing a TV show let alone even be anywhere near the production process. Even if she has met that basic requirement, I wouldn't entrust a woman with only a bachelors degree in fine arts to direct the production of a multi-million dollar project. How amazon manages to deal with her is beyond what I can even begin to comprehend.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

The audience is doing a majority of the leg work here. While that isn't a bad thing (show don't tell) we're filling in more blanks than we should, and it drives home the fact Vivienne only wants to focus on her gay fanfic melodrama. The actual story comes second.

It also doesn't help that to fill in the blanks, you have to contradict with the established lore and world-building for it to make sense. It really does come across as this:
Viv or someone else comes up with idea; Viv finds idea interesting and want to incorporate;
No one looks back at previously established lore or if said idea would worked well in the grand scheme of thing, they just do it because instant dopamine satisfaction or something.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Viv or someone else comes up with idea; Viv finds idea interesting and want to incorporate;
No one looks back at previously established lore or if said idea would worked well in the grand scheme of thing, they just do it because instant dopamine satisfaction or something.

And then it becomes "why do you care you must be maga supporter who doesnt watch" or "oh well those earlier episodes aren't canon how didn't you know that already hmmm?".

I've stated this before and I will repeat it:
The quality of writing in modern shows has gone down massively because people learned how to write not by taking English classes but instead by reading fanfiction on Tumblr and ao3. If you haven't even taken a college level English class and passed it with a B or above then you are in no position to be writing a TV show let alone even be anywhere near the production process. Even if she has met that basic requirement, I wouldn't entrust a woman with only a bachelors degree in fine arts to direct the production of a multi-million dollar project. How amazon manages to deal with her is beyond what I can even begin to comprehend.

It's more than that. It's nepotism, weird new "standards" and outright snakery that got shit as bad as it is now. Shitty fanfics and english class assignments still tend to be funny even if unintentionally so. There's something missing from a lot of current year media the last few years that lacks that specific "soul" for lack of a better way of putting things right now. There is a reason these two shows got popular, and it was the earliest episodes of both of them which when paired against the current status of both you can see a clear decline.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

It also doesn't help that to fill in the blanks, you have to contradict with the established lore and world-building for it to make sense. It really does come across as this:
Viv or someone else comes up with idea; Viv finds idea interesting and want to incorporate;
No one looks back at previously established lore or if said idea would worked well in the grand scheme of thing, they just do it because instant dopamine satisfaction or something.

It's worldbuilding in the way I built worlds when I was like eight years old and pretending to go on space adventures with Luke Skywalker and Captain Kirk where we'd fight the Borg with lightsabers and Pokemon or whatever. It's literally just mashing all your favorite stuff together into a vaguely cool-sounding blob of pop culture that makes no sense to anyone but you. I mean, we probably shouldn't be surprised that a womanchild like Vivzie has a child's understanding of worldbuilding, but there it is.

 

[The Lawgiver]

It's literally just mashing all your favorite stuff together into a vaguely cool-sounding blob of pop culture that makes no sense to anyone but you. I mean, we probably shouldn't be surprised that a womanchild like Vivzie has a child's understanding of worldbuilding, but there it is.

No, because weird stupid goofy mashing shit together worldbuilding actually works to some degree. Comparing vivziepop show world building in it's current state to kids mashing their favorite shit together is a fucking insult to the kids mashing their shit together more than it could ever be to the hazbin and hellovaboss writing teams.

...Then again, pop culture is so raped and pozzed by now that I don't even know if kids are as capable of that as they used to be, or if their brains are just being flooded with the fake ass politics team mentality shit from day 1 now.

 

[SpiderBitch]

I need more racist Alastor memes in my life. Like instead of him offering Husk booze he offers fried chicken and watermelon.

Him being a legitimate, unironic selfhating uncle tom fucking over his fellow minorties (who are less mixed & white passing than him) just to increase his own power and status with the whites, combined with him being a pathetic loser taking the easy route to power with a silly death, honestly could be something compelling.

But we know vivzie is too afraid to make her beloved protagonists actually (intentionally) problematic. Cant risk him doing anything the audience wouldnt wholeheartedly support!

Whats the point of having all these diverse characters if youre never gonna explore how being diverse in the 30s or whatever affected them? Whats the point in having a show set in hell if the main characters never do anything actually narratively considered bad/shameful outside of cartoonish mass murder?

She could even have husk be a proud black man (since hes not mixed and from a later era, therefore less likely to be self-racist) to avoid accusations of the show itself being racist. But nope, cant have her demon oc do something actually offensive.

 

[The tired cat]

Whats the point of having all these diverse characters if youre never gonna explore how being diverse in the 30s or whatever affected them? Whats the point in having a show set in hell if the main characters never do anything actually narratively considered bad/shameful outside of cartoonish mass murder?

She could even have husk be a proud black man (since hes not mixed and from a later era, therefore less likely to be self-racist) to avoid accusations of the show itself being racist. But nope, cant have her demon oc do something actually offensive.

Honestly, part of me can't wait for when viewers and fans see Al's backstory of where he was a famous radio host in 1920's Louisiana, while being a mixed heritage. Like, I think even the most hardcore defender would stop and go "Now hold on a minnizle...How does this even work...?", also is the cannibal part even a thing still? I feel like that's just gotten dropped entirely from his backstory and that he's just a serial killer with a bad impulse control.

Husk is actually another can of worms, as they said he supposed to be Russian (which, okay during the USSR days, African countries and USSR were friends, with many students going there to get an education and some still visiting after the Soviet Union ended), but they couldn't have Keith David try and do a faint Russian accent? The guy sounds like he spent his entire life in Brooklyn.