Alcoholism Support Thread - Down the hatch

[neger psykolog]

All I can do is take it one day at a time. I figure even if I relapse on day 101, it's still worth doing this. Hell, even if I fail, it's still worth trying.

That's the attitude to have.

GO! @Clem Fandango! GO OUT AND ZAP TO THE EXTREME!

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

But that's the ultimate goal for me - I used to love going out for a couple of pints after work with my missus. It was so much fun, and it didn't turn into an all evening bender. We'd go home after and cook our dinner together. I want to get back to that level.

Going to a pub on a Sunday with your 3-year-old so you aren't drinking alone is in "I should probably quit drinking altogether" territory. You say now that you want to go back to drinking like a gentleman, but the odds of you getting depressed and going on this merry-go-round again are non-zero. Why even risk it?

I hope you make it to your 100 days sober and realize how much better your life is without alcohol.

 

[Jerk Sausage]

I personally know several people (including myself) who have taken breaks from alcohol and/or successfully lowered their alcohol intake without completely stopping

Good for you, legitimately. But are you the rule, or the exception to the rule? Would you say that the majority of addicts seem to pick up right where they left off when they relapse, or do they all successfully "drink normally" after a good long break?

Yes, this idea comes from AA, and yes I subscribe to the idea.

"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it."
(Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th ed., pp. 31-32)

If you can consistently and honestly control yourself when drinking and do so in a way that is not destructive to yourself and those important to you, then great. You are cured.

 

[Clem Fandango]

One last thing for a while (I don't want to monopolize the thread). I want to document what a piece of shit I am, and why I needed to do something this time. I want to come back and read this in case I forget.

It'll be a rambly story, and not an exciting "whoa I got shitfaced and ate a kebab and threw up" story, but the boring, gritty, grinding reality of just eventually realising you're an alkie. I'll put it in a spoiler tag, but feel free to read if you want.

Spoiler: Miserable story

So it's a Sunday afternoon. Playing football in the garden with my lad. Weather's not too bad so I say why don't we walk to the park. He's so excited, we take a little fishing net. He wants to catch a fish in the stream. So off we go. And we get to the stream. But we keep going. A little further, a little further. It's a nice day. Until we're so far from home that it seems like a long way to walk all the way back.

So I say to him "I've got a great idea. Why don't we cross over the river and go to the pub. Then mum can pick us up in the car!". And because I'm his dad and I can do no wrong he says "Yay sounds great!". Like, I actually put it to him like that so it would be like it was his suggestion to go to the pub. He's three.

But by the time we get there he's not so keen any more. "Daddy, I prefer parks to pubs". He really says that. But nah I say forget about the park we'll have a great time. I we go.

I get him a fruit shoot and crisps, and I have a pint. I get three bar mats and scratch an X on one, and show that game where you mix them around and he has to guess which one has the X. See? He's having a great time! I'll get him some more crisps, and another pint. I show him how to put bar mats on the edge of the table and flip them. I'm such a great dad, playing with him properly and not just showing him youtube videos on my phone.

Then the missus comes to pick us up. Well you may as well have one while you're here. Oh and I'll have a pint of Schneider Weiss while you're up there. What a great afternoon.

Then we get home and it's a bit later. We're having dinner but we get into an argument. She's criticising me. You know I work five days a week, and then I'm still putting in a shift looking after him? So what if it was the fucking pub. You know everyrhing in this room, I pay for all that. I had to go down to London last week for work? I'm tired, and I'm putting in so much effort and, and, and.

I go too far. She chokes up like she's about to cry. Then she runs off upstairs. I can hear her crying, she never cries. My son looks at me, then goes off upstairs after her. I don't. I get my coat. Fuck all this.

I walk to the pub. A different pub, a shitty cheap one. Plonk myself at the bar. Pint, pint, pint, pint. Four, at least. Five? I dunno. It's Sunday and they close pretty early. I walk home, no texts or calls at least.

I get in, all the lights are off. Make some dry toast and fill a pint glass with water. Working tomorrow but no problem, I'll just sober up a bit. But theres an open bottle of wine on the kitchen counter. Fuck it, big glass of red.

The next day I feel like shit. The computer monitor is bright like looking at the sun. I realise I can't do this any more.

 

[Fallen Preacher]

I recommend liver failure and vomiting up blood from internal bleeding from esophageal varices to help quit drinking.

 

[dick brain]

These are totally not true and to be frank fucking retarded. This is a totally bizarre thing to claim and I believe comes from the AA school of thought were only totally abstaining forever is seen as the only option and although my words may sound heated, I think this mindset is frankly fucking stupid because it basically says to people directly or indirectly: "improving yourself doesn't count unless you totally stop doing [bad thing], even if you cut it down by 80% and only do it on weekends you're a total failure unless you cut it off 100% - you may as well not even bother unless you're going for 100%"

You can feel free to believe that but there are other schools of thought out there that do not work on this basis and I personally know several people (including myself) who have taken breaks from alcohol and/or successfully lowered their alcohol intake without completely stopping and at least found some better balance from doing so.

On top of that many people who aren't completely out of control alcoholics take successful breaks from alcohol for reasons of mental health, diet and general health/wellbeing or just plain discipline and some of them drink less or stop drinking after doing so.

"you will revert to failure" or "Even if you do manage" is a totally absurd position to take or even tell someone - you're basically saying "don't even try" with that stance so I really don't understand it. You don't know if they will revert or if they won't.

It is up to an individual person to be able to measure the problem and how it relates to their life and set goals on how to try and fix it and to also develop a relationship/better understanding of what they get and don't get out of alcohol.

Farbeit from me to agree with AA, but I think you're talking about two different things.

I think it's important, like I think you're saying, to appreciate harm reduction as progress rather than equating it to failure. A little bit better is still better. Especially because substance abuse is a coping mechanism, and the more you beat yourself up the more you'll want to turn to it for relief.

That said, the people who can drink responsibly don't end up in this meeting thread. I don't think I know a single person in recovery who hasn't tried to drink like they used to when it was fun. It does not work, because the people that that strategy works for don't find themselves in a recovery group. If you're able to do it, you're able to do it without help.

I don't want to monopolize the thread

This is what it's for.

Do your hundred days. Don't worry about what you're going to do afterward. Focus on paying attention to how you feel when you're not drinking. See if it changes, if it gets better or worse. Where your time goes, what you do instead. Then go from there.

 

[neger psykolog]

That said, the people who can drink responsibly don't end up in this meeting thread. I don't think I know a single person in recovery who hasn't tried to drink like they used to when it was fun. It does not work, because the people that that strategy works for don't find themselves in a recovery group. If you're able to do it, you're able to do it without help.

Unless I'm just being a word nigger here ..."in recovery" and "recovery group" is kind of connotated with AA specifically to begin with though and therefore there is at least some implication here that it is the only tried, true, tested and proven method and that there is simply nothing else that will work whatsoever...

It's a system/program that may work for some people but may not work for others and there has been plenty of brain science and other shit done since AA first materialized.

 

[dick brain]

Unless I'm just being a word nigger here ..."in recovery" and "recovery group" is kind of connotated with AA specifically to begin with though and therefore there is at least some implication here that it is the only tried, true, tested and proven method and that there is simply nothing else that will work whatsoever...

It's a system/program that may work for some people but may not work for others and there has been plenty of brain science and other shit done since AA first materialized.

You are being a word nigger. The recovery terminology is shared by SMART Recovery, a secular model based in CBT and DBT, and probably by other programs I'm not aware of because I like SMART and haven't felt the need to look into anything else. It is about as antithetical to AA as you can get, which is precisely why I like it, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped insinuating that I'm a cultist over your personal hangups with words.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

Last night I came home and there was a drunk dude in the lobby of my building. He locked himself out and needed a master key to let him in.

"Hey, I know you!" he said. "You are at the meetings"

"Sorry, I've seen hundreds of people come and go. I don't remember you" I said.

"Yeah, I know you! You say some really good stuff!"

It made me kind of feel good but at the same time, you can't help anyone who doesn't want to change. At least I know I'm making an impact.

 

[The Token Ethnic]

I fell off the wagon. The anniversary of my ex passing away came up and had a lot of people reaching out asking how I am doing. That did more harm than good. I picked up a bottle of vodka and have been mixing it with diet soda, carbonated water or Liquid Death. I hate falling back on this crutch and my family knows. They pretend to be nice when they visit, but they can see my bloat from boozing and recently my ankles/calves have been swelling due to this. I really need to stop, but I hate having to be reminded of losing my girl. It's embarrassing to admit, but I do not want to also get cancer from my alcoholism and this makes me feel like a lolcow in real life to the people I know. Every chance that I think I'll surpass this; someone has to remind me of what I went through and lost. I just want to be happy, and I hate being drunk and using a sick day just to recover from last night's boozing while resorting to three pints of "hair of the dog" just to feel less shitty.

 

[dick brain]

I just want to be happy

That's the problem. Can't be happy all the time. As much as it sucks, we all have to learn to get comfortable with being uncomfortable without reaching for something to make it better.

It's okay to not be okay. If anybody tries to make you feel like it's not, fuck 'em.

 

[Count Grishnackh]

One key is, when you do drink, do it after a very productive day. Keep it reasonable, you earned it. Or, plan an easy project for when you're drinking. Housework is good. Best yet, don't drink at all.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

One key is, when you do drink, do it after a very productive day. Keep it reasonable, you earned it. Or, plan an easy project for when you're drinking. Housework is good. Best yet, don't drink at all.

I tried this and justified every good deed for Eddie McDowd as an excuse to go pick up booze. Some people can do this but people like me are best kept away from booze altogether.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

I tried this and justified every good deed for Eddie McDowd as an excuse to go pick up booze. Some people can do this but people like me are best kept away from booze altogether.

The sun is out! Horray, let's drink!
The sun is not out! Boo, let's drink!

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

The sun is out! Horray, let's drink!
The sun is not out! Boo, let's drink!

The most retarded part of my drinking is I managed to be mostly-sober during serious life events. When a family member or a loved one died, I was sober as a judge until the very end of the day so I would be presentable and available to people around me. It was little things that set me off on binges. I literally stubbed my toe one morning while getting ready for work and that was why I started drinking at 9 AM.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

The most retarded part of my drinking is I managed to be mostly-sober during serious life events. When a family member or a loved one died, I was sober as a judge until the very end of the day so I would be presentable and available to people around me. It was little things that set me off on binges. I literally stubbed my toe one morning while getting ready for work and that was why I started drinking at 9 AM.

I agree. "Sparkletor, your grandma died. Please don't be too sad or do anything." I just got drunk like I already planned to. I didn't care or really think about it. I was going to do the same thing regardless of what happened in my life. Sun shines = get drunk. Sun doesn't shine = get drunk.

 

[neger psykolog]

I've found a bit of similarity when it comes to urges to eat with urges to drink alcohol and it has been interesting to try and ignore them (basically unintentional intermittent fasting). When you get (or at least its the case for me) hunger pangs your body expects a big juicy deep fried whatever and the dopamine/endorphin rush which is similar to when I would crave alcohol.

Other than that it has been interesting to manage life without alcohol and deal head on with a few personal things without the crutch of alcohol being there anymore (which I would previously use to exactly ignore and never deal with those personal things). It's a bit of bearing the brunt and anticipating and taking on negatives and life can't all be positive but it definitely is a learning experience to live life without boozing so you can just avoid and forget shit.

 

[LimeRikki]

Hello I have a bit of an unusual suggestion for something a person can do instead of drinking that is relatively low commitment that I have not seen posted here at all:

Donating blood. It can have long-term mental health benefits believe it or not.

I've seen a number of users talking about how they feel so pathetic/ worthless / suicidal. Having low self worth is absolutely a trigger for drinking some people.

Well, when you donate blood, you're sitting down and getting a needle stuck in you for 10 to 20 minutes and that blood, if it passes the screen is going to give someone a fighting chance at staying alive. There is absolutely no guarantee that a blood donation will result in saving a life, but if you donate enough over time then it's a numbers game and eventually you will have saved at least one life.

Eventually, you can reach a point where no matter how down bad you feel or how low you feel or like a loser you feel you can honestly say to yourself. "Well, I've saved at least one person's life." It's a pretty uplifting and powerful feeling.

Also, it is a built in excuse to indulge your sweet tooth for a day if that's how you enjoy getting your dopamine. Otherwise, I recommend a meat heavy Mexican dish or some kind of red meat dish.

You can only do a whole blood (1 pint) donation every eight weeks. Based on writing style, I feel safe in assuming that most of the posters here are men, which means you might qualify for a power red donation, which is two pints of red blood cells ( they give everything else, including platelets back to you through a special machine) and that's only every sixteen weeks.

Low commitment but high reward, particularly, if you keep at it over the years.

I wish well on everyone in this thread who is trying to get better even if they stumble on their road to recovery. Well wishes to the sober folks being supportive in this thread as well.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Whew, so that's one week done. Completely sober so far, sticking with it. Just wanted to list some pros and cons:

Pros
Sleeping a lot better - got that "well rested" bonus, and that filters into everything. I've got more patience, especially when dealing with family situations. Much easier to keep my temper and not immediately escalate things.

Thinking more clearly - getting more work done, stuff that actually requires brainpower is a lot easier. Not relying on crutches and shortcuts learned from years of experience. Tackling problems with fresh eyes.

Cons
Oh my God, this week has gone so slowly. But I know that really this is just a reversion to "normal time" compared to days and weeks just going by in a blur. I need a new hobby or something to occupy my time, especially in an evening after putting my son to bed.

Things just seem less fun. No, I don't want to watch an episode of "Amandaland", unless I can also get pissed while doing so. Not sure what to do about this one.

In terms of occupying my time I've decided to get back into chess. I actually remembered that my new year's resolution was to try and get 1000 rated on chess.com (a pretty modest goal), but obviously I forgot about that and gave up at some point, because of the drinking.

I've been tempted a couple of times. Sometimes I would open the fridge and those cans of Kronenbourg would just be staring down at me. In the end I asked my wife to drink them all so I didn't have to look at them. Replaced them with zero percent Guinness, which is pretty good but way overpriced.

Another time during the week we were having lunch in a cafe, and this guy was getting a pint of peroni at 11:58am. I envied him so much, but I thought how is your day going to turn out after that? Even after this 100 day thing, I think I'll need some rules about drinking before a certain time during the day.

Other than that, it's been a good chance to reflect. I went round to my mum's house on the weekend to power wash her driveway. What a perfect metaphor - blasting away all the weeds growing up between the flag stones. I let the weeds grow up high in a lot of aspects of my life too.

A lot more weeks to go.

 

[neger psykolog]

In terms of occupying my time I've decided to get back into chess. I actually remembered that my new year's resolution was to try and get 1000 rated on chess.com (a pretty modest goal), but obviously I forgot about that and gave up at some point, because of the drinking.

Well done and keep it up, you might find you're better at chess and some mental stuff without the drinking too.