Warhammer 40k

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I've only read the Ciaphas Caine books in 40k, those were fun.

Chaos has been sidelined. It literally only matters to the human faction all other major races don't give a fuck about chaos. Even eldar only gets used as a punching bag. Chaos corruption is a joke.
A shame, because Chaos corruption is perfect for psychological horror.
Like this excerpt of some anon describing khornate corruption:
First, nobody tells you that it's a Chaos cult. It's not like you join today and tomorrow they have you sacrificing people to Tzeentch. Nobody says "hey, come join my evil cult!" It doesn't work that way.

Generally what will happen is that you are invited to join some sort of club or organization. On the surface, it looks fine. Maybe you're a cop or a soldier, and you get invited to be part of a "men's club" where you go drinking after work. It's the hardcore guys, the ones who seem to really be into their jobs. They do jiu-jitsu in their spare time, spend a lot of time at the gun range, work out a few hours every day, and probably take some steroids too. There's definitely a bit of over-the-top aggression, but hey it's an aggressive job.

One day you get partnered up with Vic and Tony, and when some rioter throws a brick at your face, Vic cracks the guy's skull open with a lead pipe. Then he hits the guy a couple more times. "You gotta do what you gotta do, man." Hey, Vic just saved your life. He's right, these people are animals. You should hang out with the crew a little more after work. "We need eight people for the group," they say. They don't mention why.

After a few months, you're shaving your head like the other guys. You've put on 25 lbs of muscle and are pretty heavy into martial arts and combat training now. The gang has started training with axes, because they think it looks badass. You start wearing t-shirts with skulls emblazoned on them underneath your uniforms and body armor, like you're part of a top-secret squad. Police brutality is generally approved in the Imperium, but you guys have decided to take it to a new level. Crime starts to drop in your neighborhood, and officers from other precincts ask how you guys managed to do it. Vic travels around, showing the other precincts how to set up their own "skull squads" and hand-picking officers who would best do the job.

You don't tell anybody about the unofficial raids you guys conduct a few times a week, where your 8 man skull squad goes out and ambushes some gang members in alleyways. You chop them up with axes and then dump the body parts in the industrial waste pipe. These guys are industrial waste anyway, real scumbags who got what they had coming to them (and the truth is, a lot of them really really are).

This has been going on for a while when Vic suggests you start adding some things to your look. You each get a cool 8-pointed star tattoo on your biceps. It looks pretty badass, like it's made out of barbed wire and spikes or something. You're still attending the required church services every morning before your shift, but you kinda agree with Vic that the Emperor is really more of a war god. "The Emperor protects" should really be "The Emperor demands blood". That's a lot more kickass. You start picturing the Emperor with giant wings and a big bloody axe.

So a few years go by. The neighborhoods where the skull squad teams have been introduced have seen lower rates of crime, but disappearances are way up. At first it was among real scum (rapists, murderers, etc), but now it's just higher in general. Some guy with three overdue parking tickets disappeared a few days ago, and no one has seen him since. Vic and Tony and the other guys are talking about how maybe you don't need to be cops anymore. Why are you still showing up to work? All those regulations and written reports just get in the way of justice.

Man, have you looked at Vic lately? You could swear that his eyes were glowing red last night. Like literally glowing red. You guys had a ritual facial scarring ceremony this weekend, to show your dedication to the cause. No turning back now. Some of the guys are filing their teeth into points, but you haven't done that yet. You are a little worried because last night some gangbanger shot you in the shoulder, but it didn't go that deep and you can swear it bounced off of something... something like metal under your skin. You're happy you're not dead and everything, but in the back of your mind you kinda know that's not normal biology.

Then one day you hear that the Hive City has been attacked by some sort of pirate force. They're apparently causing a lot of carnage and killing people. The police force called you up to find out where you've been, they need to deploy you to guard the industrial sector from attack. You and the other guys are sitting there in the dark, sharpening your axes. As you look around you count seven pairs of glowing red eyes, and in the gleam of your blade you can see the reflection of your own. You've been in contact with the other skull squads from the other precincts. You'd love to get in on this fight, the only question is... on which side?
The lost and the damned? the traitor legions? The Hereteks? Pfft...Those are sideshows, the true horror of chaos is psychological.
 
I wholly agree but I suspect it'd have sold less books.

It would have opened up for introducing various interim era's though, detailing the imperiums decline into its 40k state.
See I have a theory they attempted this with the Beast Arises Series but the reception to those books were sour and GW flaked. Even now GW are slowing with the progression I picture we may be stuck in the Indomitus Crusades for another couple years at this rate.
 
I've only read the Ciaphas Caine books in 40k, those were fun.

Chaos has been sidelined. It literally only matters to the human faction all other major races don't give a fuck about chaos. Even eldar only gets used as a punching bag. Chaos corruption is a joke.
Tbf, besides the Necron all the races are sidelined in favour of humanity.
Which is a shame, since Tyrranids vs. Chaos would have been an epic fight with interesting implications considering the former should be the greatest threat on the latter, to the point the chaos gods are better off helping off humanity.
 
Speaking of lore, for the past few days whether or not this ideas is complete shit, or might be a somewhat decent

TLDR if you don't want to watch: Imperium should fracture into emperor knows how many successor states for lore and tabletop reasons and we end up with a galaxy in state similar to terra right before the unification wars.

Like I said I can't decide if this is absolute heresy or not, might be leaning towards the former since for all their faults the Inquistion and the Ecclesiarchy (ignoring Vandire) seems to still be able to wrangle things when the Administratum almost cause a secession due to fucking up some paperwork
 
Speaking of lore, I never really like the Horus heresy getting novelized. I mean exploring DA TRU history behind the myth is cool and all but from what I have gleaned, the events of 30k are a mostly faithful retelling.
The problem with the entire book series is that the actual heresy happens in book 2, False Gods. Carrying over to book 3 where the Legions go toe to toe together with each other in a planet-wide conflict. After this you still have 51 books to go before the actual Siege of Terra happens. They milked that series for everything they could and even then you still have stand-alone novels like Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe that ties in to the Horus Heresy series, providing a twist to the conflict of Istvan III.

If the series was say, 10 books, and then they got to the actual Siege it would have been a much better telling of the 30k history.
 
Tbf, besides the Necron all the races are sidelined in favour of humanity.
Which is a shame, since Tyrranids vs. Chaos would have been an epic fight with interesting implications considering the former should be the greatest threat on the latter, to the point the chaos gods are better off helping off humanity.
Ditto if they showed chaos's* rxn to the rising Necrons. Hyper-technological nightmare from b/f chaos had even existed returning to finish the job of deleting the taint of the warp from reality once and for all? Abaddon should be shitting himself and ironically end up trying to keep the Imperium afloat to stall this new threat.
And I find it weird that The Eldar don't seem that worried over their near mythical sworn enemies returning...

*And by chaos, I mean its followers.

@Power Glove Yeah, Horus and by extension all the other traitor primarchs's character arcs would've been better if The Heresy itself originally started as a mundane civil war of sorts, which then chaos latched onto halfway through b/c chaos corrupts
 
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Ditto if they showed chaos's* rxn to the rising Necrons. Hyper-technological nightmare from b/f chaos had even existed returning to finish the job of deleting the taint of the warp from reality once and for all? Abaddon should be shitting himself and ironically end up trying to keep the Imperium afloat to stall this new threat.
And I find it weird that The Eldar don't seem that worried over their near mythical sworn enemies returning...

*And by chaos, I mean its followers.

@Power Glove Yeah, Horus and by extension all the other traitor primarchs's character arcs would've been better if The Heresy itself originally started as a mundane civil war of sorts, which then chaos latched onto halfway through b/c chaos corrupts
The Necron have a pretty good reason to ally with humanity, at least until they get their bodies back, the Necron get psykers and humans get anti warp allies who are pretty honorable. Also the Eldar got enough shit on their plate (and the knowledge the Necron are their old enemy is mostly forgotten).
And if GW would have known how popular HH will be the first 5 books would have been something like 20 books.
 
The Necron have a pretty good reason to ally with humanity, at least until they get their bodies back, the Necron get psykers and humans get anti warp allies who are pretty honorable. Also the Eldar got enough shit on their plate (and the knowledge the Necron are their old enemy is mostly forgotten).
And if GW would have known how popular HH will be the first 5 books would have been something like 20 books.
Oops, forgot to mention that I lean more towards old-crons.
 
The biggest problem with new Necrons is that they might as well be tomb kings with how human they act. Not that writing non human aliens isn't a problem in most fiction.
New-crons could still be creepy and menacing if BL treated them like how they treated the tyranids.
Have their actions be shown exclusively from the perspective of the poor mortals.
Cuz Trollzyns kleptomania would be horrifying to someone currently being targeted by him. .
 
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I consider it less lore and more metaplot. The lore is the setting. But fans can't be happy with that so they screamed for years for gm to advance 'the story'.

It's annoying - one of the great themes behind 40k is that there are things to largescale for a single dude (protagonist) to affect. "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions."
You also see this in the thematics behind the Chaos gods. Part of them represent something inevitable, or the defiance against something inevitable.

There's also the thing where GW has intentionally made things a lot less grim dark over the years and a lot more friendly and heroic in order to make the game have more mass appeal. Which fair to them seem to have worked. But it has also watered things down a bit.
GW’s 40k metaplot actually has the Imperium on the losing side mor often than not.

Forge World Metallica has been infected by Nurgle malware.

Be’lakor plunged the Imperial Knight homeworld of House Raven into the warp, corrupting the knights on the planet.

The Octarius War has broken out to neighboring systems.

Chaos has nearly complete control of the Nachmund Gauntlet.

The only Imperial victories are defeating the Death Guard’s invasion of the 500 worlds of Ultramar and securing Vigilus from Abaddon’s assault.

The Pariah Nexus of the Necrons seen at the beginning of 9th edition is still standing, despite the ongoing Imperial crusade. Not to mention that half of the Imperium has little to no communication with Terra, at the mercy of uncountable threats.

Even though the Imperium has received new technology, legions worth of Primaris space marines, and the tactical genius of Guilliman, they are still losing.
 
There's a marketing effect where when you have something at a high price people tend to buy it more because they value it higher, whereas if you sell it dirt cheap people stop caring about it. That's probably what is going on with gw.

I think they're going to grow in the next few years, the lore being a little blander probably don't matter to much as long as the models look nice and the rules work(they don't even need to work well). Lore people probably are more into buying books than playing the game anyway. Though if they shrank I wouldn't be surprised either, cuz 3d printing and one million competitors.
This is true for most branded boutique luxury goods, as well as non-luxury products that are marketed in such way. WH40K is different in that we all know these are clearly overpriced miniatures, they do not artificially raise anyone's self-worth (the way a gucci baseball cap might for example) nor do they provide an exclusive experience that the competition can't (the way a rolls-royce phantom drives as another example)
 
Yeah, Chaos should be best buds with humanity, given that it depends on humans to exist. Species-wide threats like the Tyranids and Necron should at least be at the temporary cease-fire level as far as the Imperium and Chaos are concerned. Really, there's no reason for basically every faction in the game to stop doing whatever they're doing to come and shoot at the Tyranids whenever they wander into the neighborhood. The Necrons are just off being spooky space skeletons and it's not too likely that they'll come fuck with you unless you're sitting on a planet with their stuff, but the Tyranids are absolutely planning on eating your family the first chance they get.
 
@FUTUREMAN There was actually an official short story I read that came out in the leadup to Psychic Awakening that was almost exactly that, and presented through a series of personal logs. A bunch of orbital cops are forced to engage in more and more brutal crowd control tactics to deal with the throngs of refugees the Awakening caused and eventually a disguised Khornate cult among the refugees convinces them of the Emperor's brutality and how his golden throne deserves to be adorned with the skulls of heretics. The story ends with them hopping in bed with the cult to go spread "the Emperor's" message to new worlds.

Also the actual 30K stuff under the hood is a lot like that, just fucked up by poor writing. Emps started off with wanting to just unify mankind to put an end to shit and then a certain someone named Malcador put the idea in his head that he should call himself THE EMPEROR instead of just acting like yet another techno-barbarian. In fact, IIRC the man had been pretty damn instrumental in feeding into Emp's intentions and ambitions early on. Of course Malcador had betrayed the Sigilite Order of his that had been keeping safe mankind's knowledge throughout Old Night so it isn't like he's a particularly nice or trustworthy gentleman. Add in the stuff on Molech and IMO the most interesting twist would be if Malcador was originally a servant of Chaos intent on turning mankind's most powerful psyker into a servant of the Warp, but who wound up betraying Chaos in the end as Emps' own vision of a unified mankind free of the Warp replaced his devotion to the Dark Gods.
 
@FUTUREMAN There was actually an official short story I read that came out in the leadup to Psychic Awakening that was almost exactly that, and presented through a series of personal logs. A bunch of orbital cops are forced to engage in more and more brutal crowd control tactics to deal with the throngs of refugees the Awakening caused and eventually a disguised Khornate cult among the refugees convinces them of the Emperor's brutality and how his golden throne deserves to be adorned with the skulls of heretics. The story ends with them hopping in bed with the cult to go spread "the Emperor's" message to new worlds.

Also the actual 30K stuff under the hood is a lot like that, just fucked up by poor writing. Emps started off with wanting to just unify mankind to put an end to shit and then a certain someone named Malcador put the idea in his head that he should call himself THE EMPEROR instead of just acting like yet another techno-barbarian. In fact, IIRC the man had been pretty damn instrumental in feeding into Emp's intentions and ambitions early on. Of course Malcador had betrayed the Sigilite Order of his that had been keeping safe mankind's knowledge throughout Old Night so it isn't like he's a particularly nice or trustworthy gentleman. Add in the stuff on Molech and IMO the most interesting twist would be if Malcador was originally a servant of Chaos intent on turning mankind's most powerful psyker into a servant of the Warp, but who wound up betraying Chaos in the end as Emps' own vision of a unified mankind free of the Warp replaced his devotion to the Dark Gods.
Can you even turn your back in chaos?
 
Also the actual 30K stuff under the hood is a lot like that, just fucked up by poor writing. Emps started off with wanting to just unify mankind to put an end to shit and then a certain someone named Malcador put the idea in his head that he should call himself THE EMPEROR instead of just acting like yet another techno-barbarian. In fact, IIRC the man had been pretty damn instrumental in feeding into Emp's intentions and ambitions early on. Of course Malcador had betrayed the Sigilite Order of his that had been keeping safe mankind's knowledge throughout Old Night so it isn't like he's a particularly nice or trustworthy gentleman. Add in the stuff on Molech and IMO the most interesting twist would be if Malcador was originally a servant of Chaos intent on turning mankind's most powerful psyker into a servant of the Warp, but who wound up betraying Chaos in the end as Emps' own vision of a unified mankind free of the Warp replaced his devotion to the Dark Gods.
There's also the fact that Malcador may or may not have put the idea of causing a civil war between the primarchs in Big Es head after they got yeeted into the warp as a backup plan instead of relying on the custodies like with the thunder warriors, although side note I swear there was a short story where it was implied Emps had other sigilites working with him (think it might of been Two Metaphysical Blades).

Another theory I've seen around Malcador is he didn't kill the II and the XI primarchs but had them hidden in stasis some where as a "in case of emergency: break glass" option since iirc its implied that their legions got absorbed by the fists and the ultramarines and regardless of why they they where erased form the record, most agree that it probably wasn't chaos.
 
Can you even turn your back in chaos?
It's very very rare, but yes. There were a
couple of Word Bearers who became disillusioned with Lorgar and Chaos and returned to worshiping the Emperor, though that was during the Heresy and not after ten thousand years of marinating in the warp. In the short story The Ancient Awaits a group of Thousand Sons sorcerers were so awestruck by Rylanor's loyalty to the Emperor that they basically became loyalist again on the spot and let him set off a virus bomb just to stick it to Fulgrim. Over in Age of Sigmar there's a Stormcast Eternal who had fallen to Nurgle in his mortal life but was redeemed and reforged by Sigmar and is now putting together a team of ex-Chaos Stormcast.
 
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