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The Ugly One said:
They're not able to sign contracts or take out loans. But sure, they're mentally mature enough to decide to have life-altering body surgery.
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That's the wrong angle to take when trying to argue "X shouldn't be legal until you're 18!" We let kids do much more dangerous shit than signing contracts or taking out loans before they turn 18.

We pretty much universally grant 16 year olds the legal privilege of operating a motor vehicle without supervision. You can do a lot more than mess up your own body with a 3,000+ pound mass of plastic, metal and glass on wheels with 150+ horsepower at your command. You can kill (lots of) people, cause immense property damage and destruction, disrupt the normal activities of thousands of people if you cause an accident, etc. And it can happen in an instant, as the result of a split second of poor decision making, anger, panic or simple inexperience.

We let them take jobs at 16 with few (if any) restrictions beyond max hours per day/week, and even younger than that with modest restrictions on venue (no steel mills) and work tasks (hands off the forklift). We don't even particularly care about kids barely entering their teens working on (real) farms handling animals and equipment many times their size and strength.

Then there's sex, which we (collectively) never want our kids to ever do because no boy/girl is ever good enough for our son/daughter, but we all know they're gonna do it whether we call it "illegal" or not and so we just slap a number on it (16 or 18 depending on region) and hope for the best. Raising the age of consent to 18, teaching abstinence-only and hounding 17 year-olds for holding hands didn't reduce the teen pregnancy rate -- it raised it (and it made the nation's degenerates insufferably smug in the process). Nothing makes a rebellious teenager want to do something more than telling them they can't.

Are people under 18 mentally mature enough for, well, any of this shit? Nah. But neither are 18 year-olds (contracts, loans, smoking, most adult-only activities besides drinking and gambling). Neither are 21 year-olds (drinking and gambling). Or 25 year-olds (lower insurance rates, car rentals). Or even fucking 50 year-olds (finally permitted to buy nice cars without "mid-life crisis" accusations). Show me a 55 year-old man who doesn't giggle at Forklift Driver Klaus and I'll show you a man you should never play poker with.

The training wheels have to come off at some point, and people eventually have to start learning through their own experiences and reasoning. Yeah, people are gonna get hurt here and there, but for the most part it all works out okay. Coddling people forever by excusing their dumb decisions because of their age produces weak, dumb people who make dumb choices and hurt themselves more in the long run.

Blame the parents, therapists, doctors, groomers and the internet in general for teenage trooning if you want, but I have to agree with the sentiment that the buck stops with the patient. If you lack the tiny bit of self-preservation instinct it takes to realize "no, slicing off my breasts/penis/testicles/whatever is not going to feel good and I should not do this," then perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.

Accept Only Substitutes said:
I know someone who considers herself bi, but also essentially straight and not part of the LGB because all of her relationships have been with men.
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Then you know a straight woman who's trying to make herself seem more interesting by pretending superficially to be attracted to women.

Bisexuals piss everyone off (on both sides of the fence) because they're the vegans of the bedroom. They're even pickier than gays and always make sure to let everyone know they're bi, but "just aren't into you." But they're totally bi though. Did they mention they're bi yet? Because they're bi.
 
Antiwork tranny janny has a rape history :story: You just can't make this up

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ShitInMyMouth said:
I don't get the chessboard. Is that supposed to be a checkmate? Because it's not. White could go on until black got bored and avoid a mate. Black is looking at a stalemate at best there if white fucks up (unless I'm missing something super simple, it has been a long day.)
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You're expecting these lunatics to get a detail like that right? They're already famously divorced from logic. I doubt there's much overlap between "chess savant" and troon.

Pinga said:
Gross older men look at you like you owe them something and gross teenage boys think they can ogle them like they're public property.
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jfc no wonder nobody wants to bother with dating anymore. I can't imagine the hysterics if someone ever makes the mistake of saying "hello" politely.

Edit: lol, you neg-rating simps, she's not going to have sex with you.
 
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The thing that pisses off the gays about bisexuals, is the majority of bisexuals want strictly hookups with the same sex, not actual relationships with them. Even if they do enter a relationship with them, they'll be quickly dumped for someone of the opposite sex. Even more insulting, is a lot of supposedly bisexuals, want to do threesomes with someone the gay person is sexually incompatible with, or just want a little side fling because they're bored in their heterosexual relationship.

Bisexuals just need to stick to other bisexuals. Gay men don't seem too concerned about hooking up with bi men, since they're looking mostly for sex anyway, but it is disheartening for lesbians, who genuinely want a relationship, and are basically just used until the bisexual chick dumps them for a man, or was just experimenting, or expects them to be ok with them having sex with men on the side.
 
Putin Bot said:
The thing that pisses off the gays about bisexuals, is the majority of bisexuals want strictly hookups with the same sex, not actual relationships with them. Even if they do enter a relationship with them, they'll be quickly dumped for someone of the opposite sex. Even more insulting, is a lot of supposedly bisexuals, want to do threesomes with someone the gay person is sexually incompatible with, or just want a little side fling because they're bored in their heterosexual relationship.

Bisexuals just need to stick to other bisexuals. Gay men don't seem too concerned about hooking up with bi men, since they're looking mostly for sex anyway, but it is disheartening for lesbians, who genuinely want a relationship, and are basically just used until the bisexual chick dumps them for a man, or was just experimenting, or expects them to be ok with them having sex with men on the side.
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get the salt out of your vagina, lezzie.
 
NiggerRespecter said:
View attachment 2922144

There's been an absolute fuck load of retarded things shared in this thread but this just might be the clincher for me. A biological woman who looks like a woman and who is fine with being called "she/her" is in a relationship with a straight man but this isn't a straight heterosexual relationship because she also accepts "they/them", in fact she is only "straight passing." This relationship involves a woman getting her biological pussy getting stuffed full of biological cock by a man. But because she dyes her hair and talks about gender too much, she gets to claim she's in some sort of queer relationship. Outstanding. Not one of these people will ever accomplish anything
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I knew a woman who was "nonbinary" and in a relationship with a guy (read: simp). She would constantly talk about how her boyfriend was "queer" because he was fucking a woman who looked like a woman but who didn't call herself a woman. They were not in a "heterosexual" relationship, but a queer relationship. It was a complete have your cake and eat it too situations. She got the parade around the fact that she was a member of the 2SLGBTQIA+ community, but also get her pussy stuffed by cock and experienced a standard relationship where he worked and she did social justice nonsense online.
 
Ultimately the problem is that it's behavior, not identity, that gets policed. Gay men are singled out by either their partner or their effeminacy, lesbians by the partner, or their masculinity. The thing that ultimately links them together under one label isn't some common "identity", it's a common experience of having their natural tendency to gender variant behavior targeted by the mainstream, and that commonality is what creates the identity. Someone who identifies as bi, but is in all respects living a heterosexual lifestyle, is in some ways of doing the same thing a troon is (albeit with maybe a little more anchoring in reality). They are in effect arguing that some unobservable variable makes them more special than you. There are plenty of gay dudes and ladies (and some straight dudes and ladies) who are exclusively gay (or straight) now, who were effectively bi earlier in their lives. The one way in which bi people do get judged is retrospectively on their history of partners. You can argue how much of a problem that is, but the important thing to note is that it's the behavior (sleeping with both men and women) not their identity, the people single them out on, and that is largely relating to finding a long term partner. That's why it's exhausting when you have people, either in gay or straight relationships, who hold up a hand and say "actually I'm bi". So what? The identity is irrelevant to how society is going to treat them, because since they're already part of a couple, they will either have the experience of a gay relationship, or a straight one. This is even worse with the made up nonsense like "demisexuality", which I swear started as a joke is now just being treated like its a real thing.

This is the thing that so infuriating about this modern obsession with "identity". Identities are not things that exist inherent to you, they are labels applied to you by society based on your appearance or behavior. Before it got filed down to just a "#born this way" hashtag, the argument gay men and lesbians were making was that across history and across the animal kingdom, gender variance was normal. They were appealing to common humanity and mutual respect as a reason let them live their lives. No gay person ever argued that they internally experienced anguish because someone thought they were straight, in fact passing as straight was about the best thing possible.* They wanted their behavior to be understood as normal/

The Troon/genderspecial/demisexual movement is the opposite. It's convincing people that identity is some sort of description of your soul/authentic self, that its a label that makes you special and entitles you to special treatment. It's disconnected from anything having to do with your material existence. You can be a "woman", despite never socially experiencing what is to be a woman, or biologically experiencing what is to be a woman. The label comes first, and you justify your behavior based on it. Think about what a trans person is actually arguing, which is that they experience some special internal anguish that is wholly inaccessible to the people around them. This suffering (which they experience because somehow the wrong label has been applied to them, by both society and their own chromosomes) justifies whatever behaviors they want, including things that we would never accept from someone who occupies an identical position in society, but didn't declare themselves "a woman inside".

Somehow, being trans means that raping a 13 year old girl, or masturbating to your sleeping roommate, or abandoning your wife and kids, is part of your inward journey, and not a sign of a predator. These are behaviors that are inherently destructive/harmful to others, which are reasons that these behaviors should be judged and punished! But the person is trans, so they aren't a rapist and deadbeat, they're merely suffering and acting out. Bonus points if you suggest being born a boy gave them PTSD that lets them be violent with women.

It means asking doctors to perform invasive procedures that no one would suggest should be allowed in any other case. I can't report "mammalian dysphoria" and demand I have a crop and gizzard put in because it will relieve my anguish.

It means demanding access to spaces that would not accept entry in any other case. If a man said that he was phallophobic and had to go into the women's room to change because the thought of sharing a room with other penises filled him with extreme suffering, no one would say "oh yes, the internal and unmeasurable pain you claim to experience justifies the violation of this rule".

It's not about common humanity anymore. It's not about seeing past the label to the person. It's seeing past the person to the label.


*I'm sure some gay asshole out there has probably done this now, since many gay men have been brain-poisoned by the genderspecial oppression race. The point is, that wasn't the point 20 years ago.
 
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Apparently Ergo, some Philosophy (I assume) journal, published an article recently with this disclaimer. Based on several data points: a GC mutual follower; some GC-leaning tweets in his recent; and a comment in the replies that said "I bet you can guess the topic", I'm betting that the topic was Troon stuff.

Any Kiwi's with access to journals care to look it up to see? Might be interesting, since last I knew academics were heavily encouraged not to even talk about it. This could be more evidence that the tide is shifting.
 
Malevolent Grimace said:
So genetic mosaicism is a thing , but it is extremely rare and doesn't make someone "multiple people" inside. The body of an organism with genetic mosaicism contains distinct genotypes between different cells, but they aren't from distinct individuals, they are all interrelated to the genetic material that was available at conception (unless it's a deliberately made one in a lab). It's one of the few ways humans develop as true hermaphrodites (assuming an XX/XY mosaic), with both types of gonadal tissues (ie. ovotestes) present. Usually they won't have a penis, but will display hyperandrogenism (example: Foekje Dillema).

This only works as a statement if you literally decide that intersex people aren't men or women, but something else. There is still no link between the actual biology these people are lying about and misappropriating, and the concept of feeling a certain gender (or lack of gender) innately. In fact, even trying to justify it biologically is sort of the problem, because people with verifiable intersex conditions, do not magically feel like mix of the two genders internally. Even David Reimer, which is about as close to the description of a trans experience as we could get in reality, actually sort of proves the opposite point: if you read the book, it was the attempts to get David to behave in a way that girls were expected to (including weird sexual roleplaying) that fucked him up as much as it did, instead of just being open with him and saying "sorry dude, doctor fucked up and you need to live with it). All David shows is that at least some gendered behavior does have neuroanatomical origins. But that only links to gender identity if you believe that it is literally impossible for girls to sometimes behave like boys or vice versa.
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Malevolent Grimace said:
Yes, I don't remember where I read this but even with chimerism, which is more common in nature, there's still been only a few dozen recorded cases in humans.

It's such bullshit that troons use DSDs to validate their nonsense. Intersex advocates have spent decades arguing the fact that their conditions didn't make them not men and women. And you have these idiots arguing that these conditions they don't even have does make them gender aliens.
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To be honest, I absolutely despise how troons are co-opting intersex conditions because it's definitely not what that applies to them and there's also a lot of fetishistic tone too.

But personally I also don't agree with a lot Intersex advocates trying to argue about being men or women. I feel like they're also a product of modern 'rationalist' school of thought that posits that someone must either be male or female to be 'normal'. Therefore they're only arguing about being men or women because it is something to make them feel accepted in that sense. It's a practical stance, and it is also their belief about themselves, the gender they're raised as, even though they may not be either of the sexes in strict sense.

The society doesn't allow acceptance outside or norm. The society doesn't entertain the idea that someone may not be (normal) male or female - and they're also raised to feel that way... To feel and identify inside the boxes - and they don't.

Just like how you described that one time gender-noncomforming homosexual people would be pressured transition because they would've fit with social norm better. Intersex people are raised to feel like they're a certain sex and it became something ingrained to them that they'd feel put down by people who would not see them as 'really that sex'..., They'd feel alienated.

But biology is a messy thing. It is not about gender identity in trans sense, but more to do with how we see reality through language and that the map is not the territory and we're trying to fit messy reality into our language. And I find that a big issue of advocacy and activism sometimes is that it ends up entrenching the superstructure and construct we made deeper. It doesn't try to break out the box, just making furnitures inside the box a little more comfortable.

It's like how we know that the way we define race is a social construct. But many people will get upset and offended if you told them "you're not Black" or "you're not White".. because that's how they grew up to see themselves in society that requires it, it is their identity and they don't want to have it shaken down. (I myself, didn't know that I'm "Asian" until my teenage years because my country doesn't have the same concept of race as USA, and it still weirds me out to be called Asian in American sense of the word)

Like how the previous pages there have been argument whether people with CAIS are male or female? Then the argument about mosaicism/ovotestis condition... And my answer is that. They're what they are, the physical make ups of it, and what we call men or women, there's in some way that is not a perfect descriptor of nature. Now I veers very close to troon's argument that 'sex is a social construct' too - But my 'they're what they are' mindset doesn't excuse tranny... their amholes are also not functioning like a penis vagina, and the hair bolognas are also not functional like a real, functional penis.... And words cannot describe this fact. They're people born with all functioning 'male' or 'female' equipments that decided to partake in body modification beliefs.

At one point, when we have more advanced genetic engineering, we'd ask if someone is a human if they contain transgenic elements?. What sex of someone who is now a brain hosted in a cybernetics body and doesn't have natural hormones... How much of your body parts have to be replaced until you're not human? The question could go on..

I like your views a lot here and I don't see it often in internet discussion about gender. Human make labels, and not the way around.
 
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A lot of posts on reddit lately about the topic, and I completely agree that it's bullcrap us women have to be forced to lose our medical terms and words as to not hurt peoples feelings. Hey, it's me, I'm a uterus having person, a birthing person, a person who has periods! Fuck sake, we can't even use the term woman anymore without them screeching it's transphobic- and yet the men don't have this problem. Try to tell a gay guy he is a 'penis having person' and he would tell them to fuck off.

They want to be women but want to strip us of anything we have so they can take it over. They claim they want to be unified with us but pull this shit.
 
Blanche said:
A lot of posts on reddit lately about the topic, and I completely agree that it's bullcrap us women have to be forced to lose our medical terms and words as to not hurt peoples feelings. Hey, it's me, I'm a uterus having person, a birthing person, a person who has periods! Fuck sake, we can't even use the term woman anymore without them screeching it's transphobic- and yet the men don't have this problem. Try to tell a gay guy he is a 'penis having person' and he would tell them to fuck off.

They want to be women but want to strip us of anything we have so they can take it over. They claim they want to be unified with us but pull this shit.
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I'm being 100% serious here, just start calling troons prostate havers. They absolutely hate it. I have argued with troons on reddit and they get frothing at the mouth angry when you say this, yet they really can't argue against it without invalidating their arguments for calling women birthing people :lol:
 
Putin Bot said:
The thing that pisses off the gays about bisexuals, is the majority of bisexuals want strictly hookups with the same sex, not actual relationships with them. Even if they do enter a relationship with them, they'll be quickly dumped for someone of the opposite sex. Even more insulting, is a lot of supposedly bisexuals, want to do threesomes with someone the gay person is sexually incompatible with, or just want a little side fling because they're bored in their heterosexual relationship.

Bisexuals just need to stick to other bisexuals. Gay men don't seem too concerned about hooking up with bi men, since they're looking mostly for sex anyway, but it is disheartening for lesbians, who genuinely want a relationship, and are basically just used until the bisexual chick dumps them for a man, or was just experimenting, or expects them to be ok with them having sex with men on the side.
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I'm an openly bi man, who'd be happy to date a man, but I've never found one that meshes well with me. Maybe I need a feminine man haha
 
Beast From 20000 Faggums said:
I'm an openly bi man, who'd be happy to date a man, but I've never found one that meshes well with me. Maybe I need a feminine man haha
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Suck dick or GTFO

Content:

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No one said trans men can't get jaw fillers, no one is gatekeeping anything other than amputating large amounts of flesh/entire organs.

Someone points this out, but to no avail:

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It's not cis people's fault cutting your dick off and making a neovagina costs more money than botox or breast implants. :\
 
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Malevolent Grimace said:
No one said trans men can't get jaw fillers, no one is gatekeeping anything other than amputating large amounts of flesh/entire organs.

Someone points this out, but to no avail:

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It's not cis people's fault cutting your dick off and making a neovagina costs more money than botox or breast implants. :\
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He doesn't get it. They don't just want that type of procedure, they want everyone else to pay for it. Them not getting it for free is gate-keeping!
 
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