Your stance on corporal punishment

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"Spare not the rod lest ye spoil the child."

I don't advocate for a rod or any foreign object, but a well-placed swat on the ass followed by leaving the kid alone to calm down before explaining why it was necessary is probably okay. I didn't mind the spankings I got when I was a kid; it was being yelled at and demeaned past the point of punishment that really got to me.

Parents who whup their children while also yelling and browbeating them are complete assholes; either spank or yell, don't mix them up.
 
I have a story that kind of makes me doubt about this in some aspects, this might be powerlevel but it isn't like we have M16-like nanny state agencies monitoring shit where I live:

When my parents were still an unmarried and childless, they used to go to my Mom's Brother (Who happened to be 10 years older than my mom and also happened to be a mechanic, bodybuilder and martial artist enthusiast) house to pass time and eat something. My uncle had 3 children (2 boys and 1 girl) around the age of 5-8 with my aunt and they were planning on having another child. When my parents sitted down to eat with my uncle's family, the shit they said about what they saw made me look at my uncles from another perspective. My dad told me that if any of the three kids complained or made disgruntled faces while eating, my aunt (or uncle, but for the most part it was my aunt) would stand up, reel back their arm and backhand slap the kids face so hard that they would end up staring at their plate with teary eyes until they finished eating.

Now mind you, imagine being invited to eat dinner to a house and have to watch how your host assblast their own children off chairs with backhands slaps. My parents would lose apetite and just eat quietly after that. This shit also happened when more members of the family came to visit, my mom recalls being with my grandparents and other relatives in that same house and they would just do the same if they behaved slightly uncomformist and yeah, the reactions from them was the same my parents. From other accounts I got from my mom, my uncle also used to hang the kids by the wrists with chains and leave them haging in his garage FOR HOURS if they broke anything or talked back.

And then the fourth child came into the family. This is a completly different story, the newly born boy was the most pampered one compared to the other three children. They never slapped him, hanged by the wrists or even spanked him in the ass. Not sure what made them behave like this, not sure if it was remorse or change of heart but as the kids grew older some things were evident.

Of the three beaten kids: one married and had a daugther, other finished his studies and became a police archivist and the last one, despite being a closeted lesbian, managed to lead a independent life and work with no problems. Yet, they are still closely knit with their parents, as if they were somehow obliged to be in touch with them.

And the fourth one ended up getting a 16 y/o pregnant 2 years after he (barely) finished high-school, cut contact 4 years later with her, leechs off his familiy to support his child and her ex-partner, gets fired from jobs after a while so he doesn't have to pay child support with his money and sleeps arounds with any cunt that gives him a pass. And my uncles support that shit somehow.

Interesting case, to be honest.
 
It shouldn't be the first option a parent resorts to, but it shouldn't be completely discouraged either.

I got whacked with a belt when I was a kid and really fucked up. It rarely happened, but when it did, I knew damn well not to do the thing that got the belt again. Groundings and taking away things like video games or tv were the usual punishment. Don't know how well that would work today though.

Corporal punishment works if used wisely. The whole "okay little Kaiden, wanna tell Mommy and Daddy what's triggering you?" faggotry is weak as hell and won't teach the kid anything.
 
I'm fine with doing it to adults.
For example:
None of this "a giant corporation screws over a million people so they have to to pay a fine" because that doesn't work.
Instead, take all the execs, CEOs and shareholders and have each of them fight in the ring against an MMA pro, not tap outs, only knockouts end the fight.
That would be a spanking they would never forget.
Everything transmitted live worldwide, of course.

As for kids:
If you want to hit them for misbehaving, you better make sure that you're perfect yourself.
If you're just going to put them in front of a screen instead of interacting with them, don't get mad if they don't turn out the way you want them to.
When they're being hit for something that they see you do, they will end up hating you as adults.
I think psychological punishment works better.
Just like in horror movies, the anticipation before the jump scare is way more tense that the jump scare itself.
Always have that 1 big threat looming over them. For example:
"If you keep acting like this, as soon as you turn 18, I'm kicking you out and you're on your own. No money or anything, just whatever you're wearing at the moment and get the fuck out. Understand, you little shit?"
 
As someone who got the piss beat out of them as a kid far more than would be considered 'disciplinary', I don't believe in corporal punishment. It's really easy to get carried away in the moment and give a little bit more than you aught to because dammit, why can't my kid just listen to me for once? I don't think I could ever raise a hand to my kid after what happened to me, but if I was in a situation where I needed to, the most I'd do is give him 6 or 7 licks with a belt, and even then, I'd feel like shit afterwards.

That being said, @BONE_Buddy hit the nail on the head. The first time I ever got the belt taken to me, I lived in fucking terror of it.. I had to learn to either quit doing shit wrong or start getting really creative about hiding it. Course, I sucked at living up to those standards, but that's another powerlevely story for another time.

Most important thing to remember is that no two kids are exactly the same. What works for one may not work for another. Some kids may just get angry that they got an ass-whupping, others might rightly decide "yeah I ain't about that shit" and straighten out their act, but it's important to observe your kid. Spend time with them, see what they enjoy, what makes them tic, and hopefully the most you'll have to do is give your kid a smack on the wrist and say 'quit that shit'.

Also, the 'rod' in that "spare the rod and spoil the child" verse is a shepherd's rod, I don't get why niggas keep insisting it means "I can beat the piss outta my kid"
 
It really depends on the kid and the circumstances. Quiet types that don't cause trouble shouldn't be punished the same as loudmouths that always get into things, or sullen, hostile, and stupid types.

That said, boys should be comfortable taking and dishing out violence so they don't become pussies, and girls should be under the authority of their brothers to keep them grounded in the reality of male physical superiority.
 
Kids are weak and value dumb shit, resorting to violence with kids makes you weak too. There are plenty of other ways to discipline kids, like putting them in time outs or confiscating their favorite whatever, that provides much more and doesn't cause trauma. Not to mention that punishment for learned behavior is inferior to reward for learned behavior, so fixing kids bad habits that way is much more effective. If you're so worried about them being weak to physical shit, just practice rough and tumble play with them, do minor wrestling and let the kids wrestle if they have siblings. They can learn how to be physical with people while not gaining disorders and becoming fucked up adults due to years of abuse from parental figures they were looking up to. Well, not to say you can't turn out like that anyways, but it's a step in the right direction.
 
littlearmalite said:
Also, the 'rod' in that "spare the rod and spoil the child" verse is a shepherd's rod, I don't get why niggas keep insisting it means "I can beat the piss outta my kid"
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FINALLY, someone else who knows that. The phrase was meant to say: "set some standards for your kid." In other words, "Spare the guidance, spoil the child".

People just didn't understand the context of the phrase.

Another popular one (pushed by unscrupulous pastors and the like) is "It is harder for a rich man to go to heaven than for a camel to go through an eye of the needle."

There is a lot to unpack with this one. First, Jesus was talking to a rich, young, ruler. As such was was going to speak in a way that the ruler understood.

Secondly, an "eye of the needle" was a name for a particular type of small, easily guard-able, gate/opening in a walled city.

Typically, this small opening was just big enough for an unloaded camel to pass through with some difficulty.

"You cannot take your wealth with you, and you will face trial despite your wealth and power."

Or something like that.

_
To get back on topic,

I want to make absolutely clear that there is a bright red line between discipline and abuse. I shouldn't have to say this, but don't abuse your kids.

Secondly, there is an age boundary, beyond which corporal punishment's effects become laughable, but at that point the child should be reasonable enough to not need it.

Personally, I reserve it for when the the child does something dangerous that they have been warned about at least once previously, and an attempt for an explanation is given.

i.e.I have warned you before Timmy, sticking metal things (that aren't plug ins) into the electrical socket is fundamentally stupid and dangerous. Therefore, to make sure that this action gets stuck in your mind as a bad action, I will spank you.

So, it is for kids who have learned how to speak, and understand, but do not necessarily have enough judgement and consequence capabilities to automatically link:

Doing bad things can hurt me, and because it is bad I shouldn't do it even if it is fun.
 
BONE_Buddy said:
Secondly, there is an age boundary, beyond which corporal punishment's effects become laughable, but at that point the child should be reasonable enough to not need it.
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I agree wholeheartedly. Especially on the idea of younger age boundry. Spanking a kid under about four never made sense to me. Most of them won't understand exactly why you're doing it, and it only instills fear, with no "lesson" being learned.
 
For kids? No I don’t agree with it. It’s actually illegal where I live anyway. But even if it wasn’t I wouldn’t. There’s no justification for adults hitting children. Not in anger, because that’s the adult losing it and not later on, because action has to be in the present.
Yes they’re infuriating and yes they push you and do stupid shit but that’s kids. They learn by pushing boundaries. How you react is how they model their behaviour.
We always had a firm, fair and calm (mainly, apart from one or two ‘oh fuck they’re about to blow something up’ moments) approach where we never let them hurt themselves but we let them feel the consequences of their actions (if you keep on screaming we leave the shop and you don’t get that ice cream. If you can’t sit in the car and behave we can’t go to the beach. That sort of stuff.)
We didn’t really yell at them either. I think shouting and belittling kids is almost as bad. Emotional abuse of kids is almost as bad as physical, perhaps even worse. There was plenty of ‘leave your brother alone! Stop pulling your sisters hair!’ Sort of hollering but never any screaming abuse at a child like I see some do.
Parenting is just hard work. It’s a million repetitions of ‘do this not that’ and at some point when you’ve been trying to show them how to behave you realise they’re actually fairly good little humans. There’s no magic short cuts, and no one perfect method.
I think I’m a pretty good parent. Not perfect, I’m lazy with a lot of stuff, but the basics of a loving stable and fair home life have been there and they seem to be growing up to be good people.
 
I think there's a time and a place for it. To use a tool analogy, if you've got a bolt and you don't know the right size, start at the 10mm, and adjust up or down from there. (10 mm would be telling the kid "no").

It is certainly a tool, and a tool of last resort or extreme circumstance, but not appropriate for every infraction. It won't cause any lasting damage as long as it's used responsibly.
 
I can't find a call for it even in the worst of circumstances, and I think severe misbehaving (hit someone, was nasty, violent, etc) doesn't spring up out of nowhere because kids are ultra impressionable. Maybe the parents should reflect on how it got to that point. Does corporal punishment work? Maybe. But I think the time and place varies so much I have doubts about it's effectiveness, and half the time when you grow up the only thing you're left with is how it made you feel since you naturally lose those memories as you age.

I think opinions siding with rather than against sound a lot similar to communism, that if you received it and know pretty clearly it didn't work even in moderate circumstances that it just "wasn't done the right way" somehow. I don't know what the other way is, I just know making your kid afraid of you usually isn't it.
 
I think it's generally unnecessary and less effective than other options. Usually kids are better handled with just letting them know what's going on, what's expected of them, talking them what they did wrong and removing them from situations. Punnishment should not be the first tool anyway as getting talking to usually uncomfortable enough that most kids will work to avoid it. That's not say I'm against punishments but they are best used sparingly and when directly relating to bad act, like removing tools or freedoms that made it possible in first place. There are definitely times when punisments need be bit less diregctly linked to the crime, but knowing what your child values highly and removing that tend leave bigger impact than physical pain. Still I think there are moments when small smack or something of that nature is very warranted. Like your kid is trying (again) reach for something forbidding or dangerous then small slap on hand might be the thing that gets their attention. Also using physical strength remove a child even if causes pain is fine my books, but pain shouldn't be the point just unfortunate side affect. Larger pains like actually hitting your kid should only be used in emergencies like if needing to brake up a fight or something of that nature.
 
Exigent Circumcisions said:
"Spare not the rod lest ye spoil the child."

I don't advocate for a rod or any foreign object, but a well-placed swat on the ass followed by leaving the kid alone to calm down before explaining why it was necessary is probably okay. I didn't mind the spankings I got when I was a kid; it was being yelled at and demeaned past the point of punishment that really got to me.

Parents who whup their children while also yelling and browbeating them are complete assholes; either spank or yell, don't mix them up.
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Scum of the earth people who browbeat their kids. They deserve to die alone, no contact with grandkids, abandoned, unless they show remorse and repent. They rarely get what they deserve, because the kids have internalized a deep sense of shame. And a sense of gratitude, for the dish of beanie-weanie and cup of Kool-Aid that mom and dad put in front of them for dinner every night, because that is all their worth, anyway.

Why should we shun and abandon abusive parents? Because that child they are beating and demeaning, feels abandoned, betrayed and humiliated, by them. But they carry that wound for life. And they often turn out to be violent offenders, mentally ill, misfits, or failing to thrive as adults, in the best of cases.

Nobody who loves their kids beats them or cuts into their character, or harms them. We tell ourselves that they "mean well" and realize that they did not, when we see our own kids look at us with wide eyes. Children have an in-built naive love, that many parents don't deserve. They use that bond to make the child a showpiece and obedient drone, restricted to meet mom and dad's emotional needs, unquestioningly.

I am so sorry if I am being autistic, but this is a very triggering topic and I was not going to open this thread.

Should we spank kids? Only using minimal force. Target the behavior, not the child. "Stop climbing on the furniture" he keeps doing it, swat. Take him off the couch and give him something else to do.

Do not use it to demoralize or show whose boss: "look Sammy, you disobedient little shit. Bad little boy. (Drags him off to child's room, yanks down pants and spanks him so hard that he is sobbing and everybody else in the house can hear the whole scene.) NO!

All that does, is teach kids who is the boss, and it is not necessary in the first place because a small child knows he can't be the boss. It also kills the child inside, and if he can't trust the people who "love" him to actually love him, either is in unlovable, or there is no love in this world to be felt.

I am a parent and when my son behaves like a total dick, I simply tell him "when you act like that, nobody wants you around" and I put him in his room. When we are out in public and he acts freaky, I tell him "you need to stop or I can't take you to places like this."

He is starting to get real world consequences: act like a freak, people avoid you.

If he does something that 10 years from now, breaks the law, we go home. I tell him "what you did was illegal, and you can end up in jail for it, away from Mommy, the cats, and Baby Sister and you won't get to go to the park."

Truth be told, real world consequences are never getting a pants down spanking from Mommy or Daddy, so just skip the spanking. Your relationship with your kids, will flourish.

Again, I am sorry if I posted too much.
 
Amber the Hedgehog said:
it's generally unnecessary and less effective than other options. Usually kids are better handled with just letting them know what's going on, what's expected of them, talking them what they did wrong and removing them from situations. Punnishment should not be the first tool anyway as getting talking to usually uncomfortable enough that most kids will work to avoid it.
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That's all well and good, but when children are pre-verbal, or still too young to grasp complicated situations it's also moot. Sometimes (rarely) the only explanation is "if you do that you'll get a swat" and there's no sense stressing over it. My toddler was going to squash the cat with a 10 pound weight one day; I wasn't going to sit them down and attempt to explain grievous bodily injury or death to them. A quick swat on the ass, some space to pout over it, then a hug and a brief discussion about not throwing things on the cat and we were back to playing within a minute.

I could have just left it at taking the weight away and trying to explain to the kid, but I wouldn't trust that to have the same effect and we don't need a dead cat just because I'm squeamish or think my little babbo is smart enough to understand why we don't throw dumbbells on the kitty.
 
Exigent Circumcisions said:
That's all well and good, but when children are pre-verbal, or still too young to grasp complicated situations it's also moot. Sometimes (rarely) the only explanation is "if you do that you'll get a swat" and there's no sense stressing over it. My toddler was going to squash the cat with a 10 pound weight one day; I wasn't going to sit them down and attempt to explain grievous bodily injury or death to them. A quick swat on the ass, some space to pout over it, then a hug and a brief discussion about not throwing things on the cat and we were back to playing within a minute.

I could have just left it at taking the weight away and trying to explain to the kid, but I wouldn't trust that to have the same effect and we don't need a dead cat just because I'm squeamish or think my little babbo is smart enough to understand why we don't throw dumbbells on the kitty.
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Absolutely you did the right thing. In fact my son is 5 and he still does that kind of stoopid stuff. Absolutely it is inappropriate to lecture your toddler about the consequences of his actions. My son gets some time to himself, away from the cats. He is actually old enough to realize that he can hurt the cats, but I doubt that he gets that locking a cat in a cabinet can kill him, dead. So we revert back o the "no" and a swat.

At the age of two, if he didn't obey your "no" then a swat is warranted. But he is not going to understand why you stopped him. But he does need to understand "no."
 
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