Yet another study shows hydroxychloroquine doesn't work against Covid-19 - CNN really wants this drug to not work to own Orange Badman

Archive: https://archive.is/nvDFK

A new study -- the largest of its kind -- shows that hydroxychloroquine, the drug touted by President Trump, does not work against Covid-19 and could cause heart problems.

The study was published Monday in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It follows a study published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine that also showed the drug doesn't fight the virus.

Even before these reports were published, the US Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health issued warnings about using the drugs for coronavirus patients.

In the most recent study, researchers at the University at Albany looked at 1,438 patients with coronavirus who were admitted to 25 New York City area hospitals. After statistical adjustments, the death rate for patients taking hydroxychloroquine was similar to those who did not take the drug. The death rate for those taking hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, was also similar.

However, the patients who took the drug combination were more than twice as likely to suffer cardiac arrest during the course of the study. Heart issues are a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine.

"The big takeaway for me from this study is that it's very consistent with the FDA and NIH guidelines that came out in April," said one of the study's senior authors, David Holtgrave, dean of the School of Public Health at the University at Albany. "When deciding on public health interventions and treatments for Covid-19 or any other disease, it's really important to follow the data and follow the science and make sure decisions are being made on the highest quality data possible."

This study likely won't be the last word on the drugs. Researchers at the University of Washington, New York University and other centers are still testing the drug in patients.

In the clinical trials, coronavirus patients are randomly assigned to take the drugs or to take placebos, which have no effect, and then the death rates between the two groups will compared. These types of studies are considered the most reliable.


Trump's enthusiasm for hydroxychloroquine
Starting in mid-March, President Trump became a frequent cheerleader for hydroxychloroquine, used to treat malaria, lupus and other diseases and the antibiotic azithromycin, often sold under the brand name Zithromax, or as a"Z-pack."

He promoted the drugs nearly 50 times, despite pleas from scientists to let studies decide if the treatment worked or not.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine," Trump tweeted on March 21.

Fox News frequently echoed Trump, but both the network and the president quieted down about the drugs once studies started showing they didn't work and possibly could hurt.

No difference in death rates
Trump's enthusiasm for the drugs was based on a French study of 20 patients in March that showed the drugs might work against the virus. That study was criticized for poor methodology, with experts calling it "pathetic" and "a complete failure."

The medical society that published that study later said the study "does not meet the Society's expected standard."

But the study was enough to excite Trump, and enough to excite doctors, who were free to prescribe the drugs because they're both already on the market to treat patients with other illnesses.

The latest study in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at the medical records of 18% of all coronavirus patients hospitalized in the New York City area from March 15 to March 28.

In this group, doctors prescribed both drugs to 735 patients, just hydroxychloroquine to 271 patients, just azithromycin to 211 patients and neither drug to 221 patients.

They found that those taking hydroxychloroquine, either alone or with the antibiotic, were sicker than other patients to begin with and as time went on had a higher death rate. However, once the researchers statistically adjusted for the fact that the patients who took the drugs were sicker to start with, there was no statistical significance between the two death rates.

Overall, the patients had a 20% death rate.

The patients in the study were in the hospital, and other research teams are studying whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent coronavirus infection or slow it down in the beginning stages of the disease.

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However, once the researchers statistically adjusted for the fact that the patients who took the drugs were sicker to start with, there was no statistical significance between the two death rates.

What the hell does this even mean?

 

[Section230]

Yeah so this study, as admitted by the people who did the study, is worthless. Both the "treated" and "Not treated" group both were actually treaded. They were also already on ventilators, which is too late. Also, it's not a study, it's a retrospective, in other words, it wasn't controlled in any way.

Democrats are denying people life saving treatments to own orange man bad. Does playing the villain get old after a while? Doesn't it get hard to look at yourself in the mirror? Is it really worth all this just to get Jim Acosta to stop crying and yelling at you?

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Fair point, but your second link shows that AMA shit was in the 1930s. The third link actually works a bit against your argument, it appears to show that the AMA about-faced on the bribery industry collusion thing three decades ago (older than a lot of the posters on this site, I imagine). The last link seems to argue that pretty much every other doctor, not just the AMA, were fans of tobaccy back in the day. That kind of shoots another, bigger hole in your thesis that the AMA specificially is in industry's pockets.

I don't know shit about the AMA and thus don't have an opinon on the org, but your links don't do a good jurb of backing up your argument that it's a corrupt org today. I would like to actually know if that is true, but I can't come to that conclusion from the information you've shared.

You ought to actually read most of an article (and, gasp, think critically about what you read in said article) if you're going to share a link to it.

A&H is full of right-winger conspiracy nuts. You're pretty much just arguing with a wall

 

[Section230]

A&H is full of right-winger conspiracy nuts. You're pretty much just arguing with a wall

The people you're arguing against being insane doesn't make you right, you know. Just because TurboHitler1599 says something doesn't mean anyone disagreeing with him is right.

I mean, just because the wall is stupid doesn't mean you're not also stupid.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

The people you're arguing against being insane doesn't make you right, you know. Just because TurboHitler1599 says something doesn't mean anyone disagreeing with him is right.

I mean, just because the wall is stupid doesn't mean you're not also stupid.

When you have people on here who literally think they know stuff scientists don't or that some global liberal conspiracy is somehow silencing million of scientists, it makes them conspiracy nuts.

It seems to be that if it makes Trump or something he said wrong, it is a vast global conspiracy

 

[Section230]

When you have people on here who literally think they know stuff scientists don't or that some global liberal conspiracy is somehow silencing million of scientists, it makes them conspiracy nuts.

It seems to be that if it makes Trump or something he said wrong, it is a vast global conspiracy

OK I guess, but that doesn't apply to this study or anything about HCQ.

Yeah man, political die hards are annoying, I don't know what to tell you. You can't use the fact that stupid people are making a certain argument as an attack against that argument. Yes, some people would say the sky is orange and gravity goes up if Trump said it first. Some people would say HCQ is poison just because Trump said it is good. We should ignore all those idiots and focus on reality.

Also what's with your weird "Scientist" fixation? Science is a process, it doesn't require a specific title. You're a fucking moron if you just take someone's word because they say "Trust me, I'm a scientist". The process of science is making ridiculous guesses until you can't disprove the latest ridiculous guess.

 

[Broken Clock]

Also what's with your weird "Scientist" fixation? Science is a process, it doesn't require a specific title. You're a fucking moron if you just take someone's word because they say "Trust me, I'm a scientist". The process of science is making ridiculous guesses until you can't disprove the latest ridiculous guess.

Why have scientists at all? There can't be anything special about people who spend years going through a vetting process by fellow experts at accredited institutions which are tiered according to just how much expertise their experts possess. Nothing at all is different between someone who spends years in laboratories, reading and writing research papers which have to hold up to scrutiny from other experts, versus someone who does not. People who display a mastery over a field of knowledge are no better at pursuing questions within it than the common man, who is often paid more for their efforts.

Calm down Karl Popper. Scientific disciplines are a little more complicated than shotgunning hypotheses until something sticks. Resources are finite. It's true that science is never done, but all life occurs at the pace of the current 'best guesses'. Gravity might be a black box but 'we' know what it does well enough to launch probes into the interstellar medium. Critical thinking devolves into paranoia when you stand at the summit of Mount Stupid.

"Most of the people who study this field claim this phenomenon is occurring, but we shouldn't pursue policy that reflects that because I'm not educated enough to understand what they're saying or the context they're saying it in and I don't believe them because my media god of choice told me not to."

That's been my experience regarding the 'debates' around evolution by natural selection and anthropogenic climate change, anyway.

Reminds me of all the people clamoring to reopen the country rather than make the US actually commit to social relief programs like every other civilized nation: brainwashed. It doesn't matter that mortality isn't the only issue worthy of consideration when this disease can cause chronic, crippling health problems in healthy people. It doesn't matter that there isn't a vaccine yet. What matters is that people will lose everything they have because the system built on grinding the poor into dust is functioning perfectly, and poor people are used to being forced to make shitty choices while having almost no say in their government. Of course they're desperate to go back to work. The thing that really gets me though, is all the assholes who can't wear a fucking mask, stand two meters away from each other, or cut down on their social lives for a little while.

There was never a hope in this country because at the beginning of the outbreak there was nothing but irrational skepticism. It is why things will continue to get worse. Be skeptical of your governments, of course! The only thing politicians are experts in is fucking you over. Scientists, however, occasionally study epidemiology and are worth listening to, as a community.

 

[neverendingmidi]

Why have scientists at all? There can't be anything special about people who spend years going through a vetting process by fellow experts at accredited institutions which are tiered according to just how much expertise their experts possess. Nothing at all is different between someone who spends years in laboratories, reading and writing research papers which have to hold up to scrutiny from other experts, versus someone who does not. People who display a mastery over a field of knowledge are no better at pursuing questions within it than the common man, who is often paid more for their efforts.

Calm down Karl Popper. Scientific disciplines are a little more complicated than shotgunning hypotheses until something sticks. Resources are finite. It's true that science is never done, but all life occurs at the pace of the current 'best guesses'. Gravity might be a black box but 'we' know what it does well enough to launch probes into the interstellar medium. Critical thinking devolves into paranoia when you stand at the summit of Mount Stupid.

"Most of the people who study this field claim this phenomenon is occurring, but we shouldn't pursue policy that reflects that because I'm not educated enough to understand what they're saying or the context they're saying it in and I don't believe them because my media god of choice told me not to."

That's been my experience regarding the 'debates' around evolution by natural selection and anthropogenic climate change, anyway.

Reminds me of all the people clamoring to reopen the country rather than make the US actually commit to social relief programs like every other civilized nation: brainwashed. It doesn't matter that mortality isn't the only issue worthy of consideration when this disease can cause chronic, crippling health problems in healthy people. It doesn't matter that there isn't a vaccine yet. What matters is that people will lose everything they have because the system built on grinding the poor into dust is functioning perfectly, and poor people are used to being forced to make shitty choices while having almost no say in their government. Of course they're desperate to go back to work. The thing that really gets me though, is all the assholes who can't wear a fucking mask, stand two meters away from each other, or cut down on their social lives for a little while.

There was never a hope in this country because at the beginning of the outbreak there was nothing but irrational skepticism. It is why things will continue to get worse. Be skeptical of your governments, of course! The only thing politicians are experts in is fucking you over. Scientists, however, occasionally study epidemiology and are worth listening to, as a community.

Which is why CNN is having the noted epidologist Al Gore and Greta Thunberg discuss this pandemic.

 

[Broken Clock]

Which is why CNN is having the noted epidologist Al Gore and Greta Thunberg discuss this pandemic.

And? CNN is trash. I'm sure the talking heads on all these network shows are composed of only the most qualified proxies for the sake of entertainment.

 

[FlightOfTheBumbleBee]

A&H is full of right-winger conspiracy nuts. You're pretty much just arguing with a wall

What exactly constitutes a right wing conspiracy nut? Is it a conspiracy theory to say that the (CIA controlled?) media suppressed the Epstein story while accusing Donald Trump of rape? Because that's a fact.

 

[Stoneheart]

It seems to be that if it makes Trump or something he said wrong, it is a vast global conspiracy

Well in this case its just US media fuckery. Trump got a briefing by somebody who reads international publications and tweeted out what he learned.

That's been my experience regarding the 'debates' around evolution by natural selection and anthropogenic climate change, anyway.

The main Problem with those debates is that both sides act stupid. I can destroy everyone who argues for natural selection from a book/bad university point of view. not because natural selection isnt real, but because i studied it under an expert and most people with a biology major studied under idiots reading books that just cover the very basic theory from a horrible point of view. The idea that Natural selection takes ages and is always going on is just wrong.
Its a very fast process and just happens under the right circumstances.

Why have scientists at all? There can't be anything special about people who spend years going through a vetting process by fellow experts at accredited institutions which are tiered according to just how much expertise their experts possess. Nothing at all is different between someone who spends years in laboratories, reading and writing research papers which have to hold up to scrutiny from other experts, versus someone who does not. People who display a mastery over a field of knowledge are no better at pursuing questions within it than the common man, who is often paid more for their efforts.

So why listen to some hacks and not to the expert in this question? the RKI is clearly saying that Hydrocychloroquine helps and its one of the pills to use for children and adults with a healthy heart.

 

[Bland Crumbs]

Reminds me of all the people clamoring to reopen the country rather than make the US actually commit to social relief programs like every other civilized nation: brainwashed. It doesn't matter that mortality isn't the only issue worthy of consideration when this disease can cause chronic, crippling health problems in healthy people. It doesn't matter that there isn't a vaccine yet. What matters is that people will lose everything they have because the system built on grinding the poor into dust is functioning perfectly, and poor people are used to being forced to make shitty choices while having almost no say in their government. Of course they're desperate to go back to work. The thing that really gets me though, is all the assholes who can't wear a fucking mask, stand two meters away from each other, or cut down on their social lives for a little while.

If I wanted MSNBC's narrative I would turn on the television.

The hilarity of you using the word brainwashed just before you spewed the MSM's narrative almost word for word is just chef's kiss.

 

[Broken Clock]

The main Problem with those debates is that both sides act stupid. I can destroy everyone who argues for natural selection from a book/bad university point of view. not because natural selection isnt real, but because i studied it under an expert and most people with a biology major studied under idiots reading books that just cover the very basic theory from a horrible point of view. The idea that Natural selection takes ages and is always going on is just wrong.
Its a very fast process and just happens under the right circumstances.

You might have been out of uni for awhile. Punctuated equilibrium and speciation mechanisms were standard to my curriculum.

So why listen to some hacks and not to the expert in this question? the RKI is clearly saying that Hydrocychloroquine helps and its one of the pills to use for children and adults with a healthy heart.

If that's what most experts believe, go with that. I was mostly spending time refuting the "I'm aware of the 'priests in white coats' idea and now I don't trust science because liberals are fags" vibe I get continuously on this forum.

If I wanted MSNBC's narrative I would turn on the television.

The hilarity of you using the word brainwashed just before you spewed the MSM's narrative almost word for word is just chef's kiss.

Confirmation bias never rests. I don't watch TV news either, I don't think anyone sane has been doing so voluntarily since Netflix became popular.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

The hilarity of you using the word brainwashed just before you spewed the MSM's narrative almost word for word is just chef's kiss.

is what you're looking for here.

 

[neverendingmidi]

Was this the study that was completely retracted by the New England Journal of Medicine and Lancet?

They literally made up patients to fill out the studies, and when people got in touch with the hospitals that supposedly worked with the study, they had never heard of them.

 

[and 3 others]

When you have people on here who literally think they know stuff scientists don't or that some global liberal conspiracy is somehow silencing million of scientists, it makes them conspiracy nuts.

It seems to be that if it makes Trump or something he said wrong, it is a vast global conspiracy

A problem with this sort of appeal to scientific authority is that you have to explain how it became the scientific consensus that women can have penises.